XCSoar and Wind

[Dan Marotta]

Hello XCSoar users. I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and I
installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus. In the Sinus there is
no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar relies on the
internal GPS of the Streak. With the solo setup, I never see winds.
I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind presentation. In
the settings under Config > System > Glide Computer > Wind, I have Auto
Wind - Both selected. Any ideas.
--
Dan, 5J

[TND]

Instead of "Both", try "Circling". That worked on my Streak before I had a vario connected to it.

On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 2:39:20 AM UTC+11, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Hello XCSoar users.* I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and
> I installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus.* In the Sinus
> there is no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar relies
> on the internal GPS of the Streak.* With the solo setup, I never see
> winds.* I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind
> presentation.* In the settings under Config > System > Glide
> Computer > Wind, I have Auto Wind - Both selected. * Any ideas.
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J


--

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[Dan Marotta]

Thanks - I'll try that on the next flight.

On 11/15/2015 4:32 PM, TND wrote:
> Instead of "Both", try "Circling". That worked on my Streak before I had a vario connected to it.
>
> On Monday, November 16, 2015 at 2:39:20 AM UTC+11, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Hello XCSoar users. I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and
>> I installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus. In the Sinus
>> there is no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar relies
>> on the internal GPS of the Streak. With the solo setup, I never see
>> winds. I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind
>> presentation. In the settings under Config > System > Glide
>> Computer > Wind, I have Auto Wind - Both selected. Any ideas.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dan, 5J
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 8:39:20 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Hello XCSoar users.* I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and
> I installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus.* In the Sinus
> there is no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar relies
> on the internal GPS of the Streak.* With the solo setup, I never see
> winds.* I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind
> presentation.* In the settings under Config > System > Glide
> Computer > Wind, I have Auto Wind - Both selected. * Any ideas.
>
>
> --
>
> Dan,

Make sure you enable XCsoar to use the internal GPS device. You must do this explicitly. Config>Devices then A: Built-in GPS & sensors....make sure it is enabled

[Ramy[_2_]]

Dan, also make sure your wind is not set to "external" if you are not connected to external source. Which version are you using?

Ramy

[Dan Marotta]

Ramy,

I'm running version 6.8.2. I can't find "external" (to turn it off) in
the configuration screen on the PC simulator. Next time I get to the
airport, I'll see about setting went to NOT external.

On 11/18/2015 10:49 AM, Ramy wrote:
> Dan, also make sure your wind is not set to "external" if you are not connected to external source. Which version are you using?
>
> Ramy

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 11:49:09 AM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
> Dan, also make sure your wind is not set to "external" if you are not connected to external source. Which version are you using?
>
> Ramy

"Prefer external wind" setting was removed from version 6.8 and later.

[Ramy[_2_]]

I haven't upgraded to 6.8 yet. So how do you tell XCSoar to use external wind instead of calculating it?

Ramy

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:09:18 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> I haven't upgraded to 6.8 yet. So how do you tell XCSoar to use external wind instead of calculating it?
>
> Ramy

Seems like you can't....

David

[Ramy[_2_]]

So is it always using external wind when available? I sure hope so since I found 302 wind calculation far more accurate and reliable. Also some flight computers nowadays can calculate wind instantaneously and very accurately.

Ramy

[Dave Rolley]

On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 8:39:20 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Hello XCSoar users.* I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and
> I installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus.* In the Sinus
> there is no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar relies
> on the internal GPS of the Streak.* With the solo setup, I never see
> winds.* I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind
> presentation.* In the settings under Config > System > Glide
> Computer > Wind, I have Auto Wind - Both selected. * Any ideas.
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J

See if this makes sense...

http://forum.xcsoar.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2382

Dave

[Ramy[_2_]]

Thanks. Sound like it is using external wind unless you select one of the other options (circling or zigzag). It was indeed a bit confusing so glad this got simplified. I assume there is also still the option to enter wind manually as well.

Ramy

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:37:59 PM UTC-8, Dave Rolley wrote:
> On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 8:39:20 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Hello XCSoar users.* I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and
> > I installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus.* In the Sinus
> > there is no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar relies
> > on the internal GPS of the Streak.* With the solo setup, I never see
> > winds.* I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind
> > presentation.* In the settings under Config > System > Glide
> > Computer > Wind, I have Auto Wind - Both selected. * Any ideas.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dan, 5J
>
> See if this makes sense...
>
> http://forum.xcsoar.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2382
>
> Dave

Reading that (again), the best interpretation I have is that if you choose Manual for wind calculation, then you get External Wind if it's available.

But if so, how do you override External with Manual if you want to do that?

I don't know.

David

[David Salmon[_3_]]

You could always try LK8000, wind works fine in that, though now I use
external from the SN10. Before that though, the LK wind and SN10 wind were
always very similar Again however you have to configure it correctly, but
it is only one setting.

Dave


At 05:50 19 November 2015, wrote:
>On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:37:59 PM UTC-8, Dave Rolley wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 8:39:20 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> > Hello XCSoar users.=A0 I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and
>> > I installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus.=A0 In the
Sinus
>> > there is no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar
>relie=
>s
>> > on the internal GPS of the Streak.=A0 With the solo setup, I
never
>=
>see
>> > winds.=A0 I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind
>> > presentation.=A0 In the settings under Config > System > Glide
>> > Computer > Wind, I have Auto Wind - Both selected. =A0 Any ideas.
>> >=20
>> > =20
>> > --=20
>> >=20
>> > Dan, 5J
>>=20
>> See if this makes sense...
>>=20
>> http://forum.xcsoar.org/viewtopic.php?f=3D2&t=3D2382
>>=20
>> Dave
>
>Reading that (again), the best interpretation I have is that if you
choose
>=
>Manual for wind calculation, then you get External Wind if it's
available.
>
>But if so, how do you override External with Manual if you want to do
that?
>
>I don't know.
>
>David
>

[Dan Marotta]

Last time I looked LK8000 does not run on Android.

On 11/19/2015 1:24 AM, David Salmon wrote:
> You could always try LK8000, wind works fine in that, though now I use
> external from the SN10. Before that though, the LK wind and SN10 wind were
> always very similar Again however you have to configure it correctly, but
> it is only one setting.
>
> Dave
>
>
> At 05:50 19 November 2015, wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:37:59 PM UTC-8, Dave Rolley wrote:
>>> On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 8:39:20 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>>> Hello XCSoar users.=A0 I love my XCSoar/Streak combo in my glider and
>>>> I installed a second Streak in the Pipistrel Sinus.=A0 In the
> Sinus
>>>> there is no computer/GPS to feed the Streak and so the XCSoar
>> relie=
>> s
>>>> on the internal GPS of the Streak.=A0 With the solo setup, I
> never
>> =
>> see
>>>> winds.=A0 I've flown zig-zags and circles and never get a wind
>>>> presentation.=A0 In the settings under Config > System > Glide
>>>> Computer > Wind, I have Auto Wind - Both selected. =A0 Any ideas.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> --=20
>>>> =20
>>>> Dan, 5J
>>> =20
>>> See if this makes sense...
>>> =20
>>> http://forum.xcsoar.org/viewtopic.php?f=3D2&t=3D2382
>>> =20
>>> Dave
>> Reading that (again), the best interpretation I have is that if you
> choose
>> =
>> Manual for wind calculation, then you get External Wind if it's
> available.
>> But if so, how do you override External with Manual if you want to do
> that?
>> I don't know.
>>
>> David
>>

--
Dan, 5J

[Ramy[_2_]]

If Manual means external than those who use external wind can no longer set it manually. This is a problem since occasionally you want to manually enter expected wind instead of current wind to get realistic final glide calculation when you know the wind at lower altitude is different. I don't understand why not simply add "external" option.

Ramy

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 10:26:04 AM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> If Manual means external than those who use external wind can no longer set it manually. This is a problem since occasionally you want to manually enter expected wind instead of current wind to get realistic final glide calculation when you know the wind at lower altitude is different. I don't understand why not simply add "external" option.
>
> Ramy

My understanding is that even when there was an explicit external option, if it was selected, and there was external wind present, then the manual wind was overridden by it at all times.

So, pre 6.8, with external wind you do not have manual wind.

Seems all they did with this change is to make the UI more consistent with the implemented logic.

David

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 12:29:11 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 10:26:04 AM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> > If Manual means external than those who use external wind can no longer set it manually. This is a problem since occasionally you want to manually enter expected wind instead of current wind to get realistic final glide calculation when you know the wind at lower altitude is different. I don't understand why not simply add "external" option.
> >
> > Ramy
>
> My understanding is that even when there was an explicit external option, if it was selected, and there was external wind present, then the manual wind was overridden by it at all times.
>
> So, pre 6.8, with external wind you do not have manual wind.
>
> Seems all they did with this change is to make the UI more consistent with the implemented logic.
>
> David

To do this the right way, would require a Settings choice between External source and Internal calculation, and a use choice in the Wind modal that lets the user override the Settings choice with a Manual wind, with the ability to clear it and go back to the Settings choice once the user is done with the need to use the Manual values.

David

[Ramy[_2_]]

with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.

Ramy

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 12:50:31 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.
>
> Ramy

OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.

In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that overrides the External wind.

In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the Manual wind and it goes back to using External (if present).

Hope that's how it is.

David

[Craig Funston]

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 12:50:31 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
> with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.
>
> Ramy

This reminds me of sitting around listening to Airbus and Boeing pilots debate the flight laws of their software. It's not as entertaining though when I think about how opaque some parts of flying have become with the introduction of automation.
Craig

[Dan Marotta]

OK, I flew the Sinus today. I could find no way to configure the Streak
to calculate wind based upon circling. I flew for 1.7 hours and had no
wind display until I manually entered what I thought was the wind at
altitude. I determined that by flying upwind/downwind and taking half
the difference between ground speeds as the the wind speed. It's clear
that the internal GPS in my Streak works but there doesn't seem to be a
way to make it display calculated wind.

I wish one of the developers would just tell us how to do it. I can't
find anything in the manual, either.

Frustrated...

On 11/19/2015 1:50 PM, Ramy wrote:
> with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.
>
> Ramy

--
Dan, 5J

[Ramy[_2_]]

On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 5:58:27 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> OK, I flew the Sinus today.* I could find no way to configure the
> Streak to calculate wind based upon circling.* I flew for 1.7 hours
> and had no wind display until I manually entered what I thought was
> the wind at altitude.* I determined that by flying upwind/downwind
> and taking half the difference between ground speeds as the the wind
> speed.* It's clear that the internal GPS in my Streak works but
> there doesn't seem to be a way to make it display calculated wind.
>
>
>
> I wish one of the developers would just tell us how to do it.* I
> can't find anything in the manual, either.
>
>
>
> Frustrated...
>
>
>
>
> On 11/19/2015 1:50 PM, Ramy wrote:
>
>
>
> with pre 6.8 I simply unselected the "use external wind" whenever I wanted the set the wind manually. It worked well. I am hoping there is a way to achieve the same in 6.8 - having the ability to easily switch between external to manual wind. Without this I am better off with 6.7.
>
> Ramy
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J

David, thanks for clarifying.
Dan, you can try your luck by posting to the xcsoar forum (link provided earlier in this thread). You may get an answer or you may get burned ;-)

Ramy

[Surge]

On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2, wrote:
> OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.
>
> In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that overrides the External wind.
>
> In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the Manual wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
>
> Hope that's how it is.
>
> David


I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of the main developers) replied.

Question:
Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is available?

Max's answer:
Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.

[[email protected]]

On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 2:58:27 AM UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
> the wind at altitude.* I determined that by flying upwind/downwind
> and taking half the difference between ground speeds as the the wind
> speed.

That's also what Circling Wind in XCSoar does.

Roel

[Dan Marotta]

Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
does not independently calculate and display wind.

I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
connected, to calculate and display the wind.

Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
get no wind.

On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
> On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2, wrote:
>> OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.
>>
>> In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that overrides the External wind.
>>
>> In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the Manual wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
>>
>> Hope that's how it is.
>>
>> David
>
> I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of the main developers) replied.
>
> Question:
> Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is available?
>
> Max's answer:
> Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.

--
Dan, 5J

[Guy Corbett[_2_]]

If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.

At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
>Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
>does not independently calculate and display wind.
>
>I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
>I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
>connected, to calculate and display the wind.
>
>Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
>suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
>get no wind.
>
>On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
>> On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,
wrote:
>>> OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.
>>>
>>> In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is
>present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
>overrides the External wind.
>>>
>>> In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears
>(it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the
Manual
>wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
>>>
>>> Hope that's how it is.
>>>
>>> David
>>
>> I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of
the
>main developers) replied.
>>
>> Question:
>> Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is
>available?
>>
>> Max's answer:
>> Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.
>
>--
>Dan, 5J
>

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks, I haven't done that many turns since trying this out. Next time...

On 11/20/2015 8:56 AM, Guy Corbett wrote:
> If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
> by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
> XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.
>
> At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
>> does not independently calculate and display wind.
>>
>> I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
>> I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
>> connected, to calculate and display the wind.
>>
>> Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
>> suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
>> get no wind.
>>
>> On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,
> wrote:
>>>> OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.
>>>>
>>>> In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is
>> present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
>> overrides the External wind.
>>>> In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears
>> (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the
> Manual
>> wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
>>>> Hope that's how it is.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>> I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of
> the
>> main developers) replied.
>>> Question:
>>> Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is
>> available?
>>> Max's answer:
>>> Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
>>

--
Dan, 5J

[Dave Leonard]

Hey Dan,

After poking around through the code, it looks like if you need a couple things to get GPS only winds:
1) Average GPS update rate of < 2 sec between updates over the duration of the circle. So dropouts during the circle could disqualify it from the calculation.

2) And the time to complete the 360 turn needs to be less than 50 samples. Not sure, but I think the Streak has a nominal 1 second update rate.

The quality of the wind estimate improves with more turns and with more constant airspeed control. I'm not sure if circling detection has to occur before wind calculation can start, but you probably need a couple good relatively tight turns to make it compute the winds.

It is open source, so you can change it if you're willing to dig into it.

Dave, ZL


On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Thanks, I haven't done that many turns since trying this out.* Next
> time...
>
>
>
>
> On 11/20/2015 8:56 AM, Guy Corbett
> wrote:
>
>
>
> If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
> by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
> XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.
>
> At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
>
> Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
> does not independently calculate and display wind.
>
> I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
> I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
> connected, to calculate and display the wind.
>
> Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
> suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
> get no wind.
>
> On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,
>
>
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.
>
> In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is
>
>
>
> present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
> overrides the External wind.
>
>
>
> In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears
>
>
>
> (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the
>
>
> Manual
>
>
> wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
>
>
>
> Hope that's how it is.
>
> David
>
>
> I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of
>
>
>
> the
>
>
> main developers) replied.
>
>
> Question:
> Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is
>
>
> available?
>
>
> Max's answer:
> Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.
>
>
> --
> Dan, 5J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks Dave,

Patti could do it - I can't. Maybe I can put her to work... ;-)

On 11/20/2015 3:18 PM, Dave Leonard wrote:
> Hey Dan,
>
> After poking around through the code, it looks like if you need a couple things to get GPS only winds:
> 1) Average GPS update rate of < 2 sec between updates over the duration of the circle. So dropouts during the circle could disqualify it from the calculation.
>
> 2) And the time to complete the 360 turn needs to be less than 50 samples. Not sure, but I think the Streak has a nominal 1 second update rate.
>
> The quality of the wind estimate improves with more turns and with more constant airspeed control. I'm not sure if circling detection has to occur before wind calculation can start, but you probably need a couple good relatively tight turns to make it compute the winds.
>
> It is open source, so you can change it if you're willing to dig into it.
>
> Dave, ZL
>
>
> On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Thanks, I haven't done that many turns since trying this out. Next
>> time...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/2015 8:56 AM, Guy Corbett
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
>> by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
>> XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.
>>
>> At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>
>>
>> Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
>> does not independently calculate and display wind.
>>
>> I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
>> I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
>> connected, to calculate and display the wind.
>>
>> Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
>> suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
>> get no wind.
>>
>> On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,
>>
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.
>>
>> In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is
>>
>>
>>
>> present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
>> overrides the External wind.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears
>>
>>
>>
>> (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the
>>
>>
>> Manual
>>
>>
>> wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope that's how it is.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of
>>
>>
>>
>> the
>>
>>
>> main developers) replied.
>>
>>
>> Question:
>> Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is
>>
>>
>> available?
>>
>>
>> Max's answer:
>> Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

[Alex[_6_]]

I can confirm it takes a few circles before there is enough data for wind calculation. In a glider you usually won't notice since the first thermal will provide plenty of circles.

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks Guys,

This is a touring motor glider and, this time of year, there isn't much
thermalling. I'll live with it until spring.

On 11/21/2015 5:45 AM, Alex wrote:
> I can confirm it takes a few circles before there is enough data for wind calculation. In a glider you usually won't notice since the first thermal will provide plenty of circles.

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

Looks like Dave had the right answer.

I flew the motor glider today and took some time to circle in reduced
sink (there was no lift) and, after 4 or 5 turns, voila! I had a wind
arrow, direction, and velocity.

On 11/20/2015 3:18 PM, Dave Leonard wrote:
> Hey Dan,
>
> After poking around through the code, it looks like if you need a couple things to get GPS only winds:
> 1) Average GPS update rate of < 2 sec between updates over the duration of the circle. So dropouts during the circle could disqualify it from the calculation.
>
> 2) And the time to complete the 360 turn needs to be less than 50 samples. Not sure, but I think the Streak has a nominal 1 second update rate.
>
> The quality of the wind estimate improves with more turns and with more constant airspeed control. I'm not sure if circling detection has to occur before wind calculation can start, but you probably need a couple good relatively tight turns to make it compute the winds.
>
> It is open source, so you can change it if you're willing to dig into it.
>
> Dave, ZL
>
>
> On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Thanks, I haven't done that many turns since trying this out. Next
>> time...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/2015 8:56 AM, Guy Corbett
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have no airspeed information the only way to calculate the wind is
>> by measuring the drift of your circle in circling mode. In my experience
>> XCSOAR wants 4-5 thermalling turns before it calculates the wind.
>>
>> At 15:27 20 November 2015, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>
>>
>> Apparently my question is not understood by the developers or XCSoar
>> does not independently calculate and display wind.
>>
>> I do not want to manually enter wind based upon a guess of what it is.
>> I want XCSoar, running on a Dell Streak 5, with no external device
>> connected, to calculate and display the wind.
>>
>> Does XCSoar do that? How to I make it do that? I have tried all of the
>> suggestions and, without an external source, i.e., CAI-302/Bluetooth, I
>> get no wind.
>>
>> On 11/20/2015 12:45 AM, Surge wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 19 November 2015 23:01:48 UTC+2,
>>
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, more speculation about how this works. Looking at the code.
>>
>> In >=6.8, if wind is set to Manual (not Auto), and External wind is
>>
>>
>>
>> present then External is used. If you then set wind manually, that
>> overrides the External wind.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the Modal, once you select wind manually, a "Clear" button appears
>>
>>
>>
>> (it is not there before). Select 'Clear' once you are done with the
>>
>>
>> Manual
>>
>>
>> wind and it goes back to using External (if present).
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope that's how it is.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> I asked that question yesterday on the XCSoar forums and Max (one of
>>
>>
>>
>> the
>>
>>
>> main developers) replied.
>>
>>
>> Question:
>> Is the Manual option the same as disabled if an external wind source is
>>
>>
>> available?
>>
>>
>> Max's answer:
>> Yes. Good commit message, but bad naming in user interface.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

[Ramy[_2_]]

I tried this few times in couple of flights recently. Unfortunately looks like it is no longer possible to enter manual wind in XCSoar if you using external source like 302. I tried entering values manually in manual mode (as well as circling etc) and it immediately switched back to the external value. No matter what I tried, it continues showing external wind. I suspect this is a bug and not intentional as it was possible to enter manual wind in previous versions, crucial when you on final glide into different airmass but the wind remains the last calculated value.

Ramy

[WaltWX[_2_]]

Ramy,

I use LK8000 V5 and even though it can receive my SN10B winds, I always configure the winds manually. SN10B winds are more accurate... but far less accurate than the Butterfly IMU based system (AirGlide) according to reports from a few friends.

Circling winds from LK8000 are similar to the SN10B's, but like you... I prefer to set winds manually which is on my checklist before taking off.

Walt Rogers WX

[Andrzej Kobus]

Considering wind changes with altitude and geographical location you must have a data entry clerk on board to keep it accurate. :)