Glider insurance through AOPA... (USA)

[[email protected]]

All;

I received a quote 20% less than what I had been paying through the SSA insurance program - Any other private owners have this happen, and did you switch?

I have no problems with my current insurance, and Starr Aviation, the underwriter for the AOPA, is new to me. Still 20% is hard to pass up.

Any comments?

aerodyne

[Bret Hess]

I switched from Costello to LL Johns, also for 20% less. Same coverage. I'm very happy with their service.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I recently got four quotes for insurance from PIK West, Avemco, LL John's and Costello. Turns out there are only two underwriters no matter how many quotes you get. Costello was the lowest by over $300 with an AOPA membership.


On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 10:48:55 PM UTC-8, Bret Hess wrote:
> I switched from Costello to LL Johns, also for 20% less. Same coverage. I'm very happy with their service.

[Bret Hess]

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 8:51:46 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Turns out there are only two underwriters no matter how many quotes you get. Costello was the lowest by over $300 with an AOPA membership.
>

There are more now: I found this from a 2014 article:

"An explosion of growth in aviation insurance underwriters brought new
entrants to the market over the last four years. International Aerospace
Insurance Services, Berkley Aviation, Allianz Aviation (US), Starr Aviation
and an expansion of Lloyds are some of the newer players."

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Interesting, as in early November I shopped for insurance and was told by the four companies I contacted that there are only two underwriters for glider insurance. I know years ago when shopping for airplane insurance if I contacted too many insurance companies it created problems as they were all going to the same underwriters for the same policy.

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 9:40:27 AM UTC-8, Bret Hess wrote:

> There are more now: I found this from a 2014 article:
>
> "An explosion of growth in aviation insurance underwriters brought new
> entrants to the market over the last four years. International Aerospace
> Insurance Services, Berkley Aviation, Allianz Aviation (US), Starr Aviation
> and an expansion of Lloyds are some of the newer players."

[Christopher Giacomo]

I saved about $300/yr switching over from Costello to LL.Johns, and couldn't be happier. When i just went through a total loss claim last month USAIG and LL Johns were incredibly helpful and made the process really easy and painless.
FWIW

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 12:40:27 PM UTC-5, Bret Hess wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 8:51:46 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > Turns out there are only two underwriters no matter how many quotes you get. Costello was the lowest by over $300 with an AOPA membership.
> >
>
> There are more now: I found this from a 2014 article:
>
> "An explosion of growth in aviation insurance underwriters brought new
> entrants to the market over the last four years. International Aerospace
> Insurance Services, Berkley Aviation, Allianz Aviation (US), Starr Aviation
> and an expansion of Lloyds are some of the newer players."

Not clear that all of them write for gliders. I looked into this when I was working with one of the big carriers two years ago and found that most of them were focused on commercial risks (FBOs, Rental fleets, Airports) and not on personal lines (individuals). The others didn't offer coverage on gliders; only piston and turbine aircraft. It's news to me that Starr (aka "AIG North") is covering gliders. That's good news, as some competition never hurts.

Another point though. Several people have asked me to review their existing policies against cheaper quotes from other carriers. In most cases, savings against the SSA plan came at the expense of certain coverages and benefits including things like: reduced rates for storage, any qualified pilot, reducing deductibles, etc. So, for those of you who "saved" by switching are you sure that the policies are 100% identical? The dec pages will show the hull and liability amounts and premiums, but the devil is usually in the details on the above terms...

The best way to determine the real "savings" is to model out some realistic loss scenarios/operating scenarios with a spreadsheet. In some cases the savings in premium were more than offset by increased costs in other areas during periods of inactivity, loaning your glider to a friend, or a claim.

Caveat emptor.

Erik mann
P3

[JS]

One detail in the devils: SSA insurance also covers rentals up to the hull value of your own glider.
Jim

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 2:01:01 PM UTC-8, Papa3 wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 12:40:27 PM UTC-5, Bret Hess wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 8:51:46 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > Turns out there are only two underwriters no matter how many quotes you get. Costello was the lowest by over $300 with an AOPA membership.
> > >
> >
> > There are more now: I found this from a 2014 article:
> >
> > "An explosion of growth in aviation insurance underwriters brought new
> > entrants to the market over the last four years. International Aerospace
> > Insurance Services, Berkley Aviation, Allianz Aviation (US), Starr Aviation
> > and an expansion of Lloyds are some of the newer players."
>
> Not clear that all of them write for gliders. I looked into this when I was working with one of the big carriers two years ago and found that most of them were focused on commercial risks (FBOs, Rental fleets, Airports) and not on personal lines (individuals). The others didn't offer coverage on gliders; only piston and turbine aircraft. It's news to me that Starr (aka "AIG North") is covering gliders. That's good news, as some competition never hurts.
>
> Another point though. Several people have asked me to review their existing policies against cheaper quotes from other carriers. In most cases, savings against the SSA plan came at the expense of certain coverages and benefits including things like: reduced rates for storage, any qualified pilot, reducing deductibles, etc. So, for those of you who "saved" by switching are you sure that the policies are 100% identical? The dec pages will show the hull and liability amounts and premiums, but the devil is usually in the details on the above terms...
>
> The best way to determine the real "savings" is to model out some realistic loss scenarios/operating scenarios with a spreadsheet. In some cases the savings in premium were more than offset by increased costs in other areas during periods of inactivity, loaning your glider to a friend, or a claim..
>
> Caveat emptor.
>
> Erik mann
> P3

[Wheaton]

LL Johns also has the rental at no additional cost.

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 6:32:28 PM UTC-8, Wheaton wrote:
> LL Johns also has the rental at no additional cost.

Do any of 'em cover loss of use? That seems to be one of the great big downsides of even minor outlanding damage - no glider for 6 months.

[Renny[_2_]]

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 11:05:48 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 6:32:28 PM UTC-8, Wheaton wrote:
> > LL Johns also has the rental at no additional cost.
>
> Do any of 'em cover loss of use? That seems to be one of the great big downsides of even minor outlanding damage - no glider for 6 months.

To cover "loss of use," the key is to own a second glider. Consider it just another "type" of insurance.... ;-)

[Stephen Damon]

Denny, Please explain, hanks

[[email protected]]

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 5:33:57 PM UTC-8, Stephen Damon wrote:
> Denny, Please explain, hanks

I checked today and I have some answers.

The coverage does include rentals up to 50k. Even if youe hull on your own glider may be a lot less, you can go to an FBO and rent a beater Grob and be covered. If you rent a new ASK 21 you will only be covered up to 50K, or the value of your hull, which ever is higher.

The underwriter is Starr Aviation, made up in part by a bunch of folks that split off from AIG. The policy is virtually the same I have been told.

BTW, it is possible that the coverage on glider rentals may extend to powered aircraft rentals. The AOPA broker is looking into that, as well as coverage options for glider schools and clubs.

The policy can be amended to allow for winter storage, like the SSA program..

I have decided to take what ammounts to a 32% saving and go with the AOPA. It is a bit of a risk, if I go back to Costello they will raise my rates 25% more than what I WAS paying under the SSA program...

[son_of_flubber]

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 8:59:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:

> I have decided to take what amounts to a 32% saving and go with the AOPA. ...if I go back to Costello they will raise my rates 25% more than what I WAS paying under the SSA program...

32% is huge. But is there anything that prevents a 40% premium increase in the second year? Is this a 'teaser rate'? Please report back to this thread in the coming years.

Theoretically speaking, SSA has leverage to negotiate future rate increases with the underwriter in coming years, because SSA can switch the SSA policy to a new underwriter if it is economic. So the premiums should be relatively stable for accident free customers.

I suppose that AOPA would have even more leverage with their underwriter but I understand that AOPA derives income in exchange for marketing the policy. Kinda like AAA makes money from insurance sales. Does SSA get a kickback for marketing the SSA policy?

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 9:46:55 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 8:59:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>
> > I have decided to take what amounts to a 32% saving and go with the AOPA. ...if I go back to Costello they will raise my rates 25% more than what I WAS paying under the SSA program...
>
> 32% is huge. But is there anything that prevents a 40% premium increase in the second year? Is this a 'teaser rate'? Please report back to this thread in the coming years.
>
> Theoretically speaking, SSA has leverage to negotiate future rate increases with the underwriter in coming years, because SSA can switch the SSA policy to a new underwriter if it is economic. So the premiums should be relatively stable for accident free customers.
>
> I suppose that AOPA would have even more leverage with their underwriter but I understand that AOPA derives income in exchange for marketing the policy. Kinda like AAA makes money from insurance sales. Does SSA get a kickback for marketing the SSA policy?

AOPA has much bigger leverage than SSA.

[[email protected]]

I just had a broker try and find a better rate for me on my Duo. No luck. Quotes came in roughly 20% higher than Costello.

I would prefer a higher deductible than the group policy has. One complaint Costello was making at the Convention 2 years ago was that smaller claims were driving costs up and those claims tended to be avoidable. Canopies left open and slamming closed, wings dropped off riggers and such.

Seems to me that having $100 deductibles makes it more likely that someone will file a claim against a $1500 repair. I was OK with a $1000 or $2000 deductible, but that didn't help.

Comparing the quotes I got back, they were roughly equivalent to the insurance cost of a Complex airplane of the same value. Even though the cost of repair on a damaged glider is likely to be far less.

A gear up landing on a glider may cost several thousand dollars, but nothing like gear up in a power plane. No engine teardown, no prop replacement. The other underwriters just don't have any other data to go off it seems so they put gliders into the same basic expense category as power.

I may look into LL Johns next year.


On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 9:09:15 AM UTC-8, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 9:46:55 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 8:59:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> >
> > > I have decided to take what amounts to a 32% saving and go with the AOPA. ...if I go back to Costello they will raise my rates 25% more than what I WAS paying under the SSA program...
> >
> > 32% is huge. But is there anything that prevents a 40% premium increase in the second year? Is this a 'teaser rate'? Please report back to this thread in the coming years.
> >
> > Theoretically speaking, SSA has leverage to negotiate future rate increases with the underwriter in coming years, because SSA can switch the SSA policy to a new underwriter if it is economic. So the premiums should be relatively stable for accident free customers.
> >
> > I suppose that AOPA would have even more leverage with their underwriter but I understand that AOPA derives income in exchange for marketing the policy. Kinda like AAA makes money from insurance sales. Does SSA get a kickback for marketing the SSA policy?
>
> AOPA has much bigger leverage than SSA.

[son_of_flubber]

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 8:59:12 PM UTC-5, wrote:

> BTW, it is possible that the coverage on glider rentals may extend to powered aircraft rentals. The AOPA broker is looking into that

Has anyone found a policy that favorably covers an OWNED glider and a RENTED power plane? Costello confirmed recently that the SSA policy does not cover rented POWER planes.

[Giaco]

On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 5:47:09 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> All;
>
> I received a quote 20% less than what I had been paying through the SSA insurance program - Any other private owners have this happen, and did you switch?
>
> I have no problems with my current insurance, and Starr Aviation, the underwriter for the AOPA, is new to me. Still 20% is hard to pass up.
>
> Any comments?
>
> aerodyne

Having actually exercised a policy with LL Johns, i couldn't be happier. They were an absolute god-send throughout the entire process, I saved a few hundred dollars over costello when i switched, and my new premium after the accident isn't anywhere outside of what i would consider fair. Absolutely love working with them. FWIW.
Chris

[Dan Marotta]

I have Starr, too, for my Stemme. Couldn't be happier.

On 3/24/2016 6:14 PM, Giaco wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 5:47:09 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>> All;
>>
>> I received a quote 20% less than what I had been paying through the SSA insurance program - Any other private owners have this happen, and did you switch?
>>
>> I have no problems with my current insurance, and Starr Aviation, the underwriter for the AOPA, is new to me. Still 20% is hard to pass up.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> aerodyne
> Having actually exercised a policy with LL Johns, i couldn't be happier. They were an absolute god-send throughout the entire process, I saved a few hundred dollars over costello when i switched, and my new premium after the accident isn't anywhere outside of what i would consider fair. Absolutely love working with them. FWIW.
> Chris

--
Dan, 5J

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 9:07:36 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:

> Has anyone found a policy that favorably covers an OWNED glider and a RENTED power plane?

Found the answer to my question in another thread. '...AOPA Insurance...'

On Sunday, January 17, 2016 at 9:39:33 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Just found out my new glider policy (STARR) also covers rented aircraft.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 9:14:58 PM UTC-4, Giaco wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 5:47:09 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > All;
> >
> > I received a quote 20% less than what I had been paying through the SSA insurance program - Any other private owners have this happen, and did you switch?
> >
> > I have no problems with my current insurance, and Starr Aviation, the underwriter for the AOPA, is new to me. Still 20% is hard to pass up.
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> > aerodyne
>
> Having actually exercised a policy with LL Johns, i couldn't be happier. They were an absolute god-send throughout the entire process, I saved a few hundred dollars over costello when i switched, and my new premium after the accident isn't anywhere outside of what i would consider fair. Absolutely love working with them. FWIW.
> Chris

I, also, switched to LL Johns, for insurance on my gliders. I held twenty years of being a subscriber to Costello for multiple gliders a year without any claims at all. Missed the renewal by a month due to multiple serious family issues and was told that I lost my discounts for missing the date. Called LL Johns and got the same coverage for hundreds less without any hassle at all. Couldn't be happier!