Touring the USA with glider

[Jim White[_3_]]

On a whim I said to my long suffering wife that I would like to tour the
USA with my glider, see the sights and enjoy the soaring. Surprisingly she
said that she would come with me!

I have a time budget of 2-3 years but modest financial resources. So
gents...where and what time of year? If I could construct a tour that
starts in up state NY went South down the Appalachians then W to the
Sierras then N up the Rockies and back to the East coast that would seem
sensible. I guess I could ship to anywhere on the East Coast and go from
there.

Advice on itinerary, welcoming clubs (with aero tow), great soaring, good
things to see, places to stay etc. by email would be great.

Thanks in advance
Jim

BTW I am very happy to help run HDT task days / weeks / competitions along
the way if you would like.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 7:45:06 AM UTC-5, Jim White wrote:
> On a whim I said to my long suffering wife that I would like to tour the
> USA with my glider, see the sights and enjoy the soaring. Surprisingly she
> said that she would come with me!
>
> I have a time budget of 2-3 years but modest financial resources. So
> gents...where and what time of year? If I could construct a tour that
> starts in up state NY went South down the Appalachians then W to the
> Sierras then N up the Rockies and back to the East coast that would seem
> sensible. I guess I could ship to anywhere on the East Coast and go from
> there.
>
> Advice on itinerary, welcoming clubs (with aero tow), great soaring, good
> things to see, places to stay etc. by email would be great.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Jim
>
> BTW I am very happy to help run HDT task days / weeks / competitions along
> the way if you would like.

You should probably start in Franconia, NH, from there fly to Sugerbush, VT then down to Springfield VT and then turn west to upstate NY.

Ship your glider via RORO to a port near Providance, RI (about Euro 2k + insurance). That is where we ship our gliders from factories in EU for East Coast destinations. I shipped two gliders from Europe without any issues and the third one is on the way.

I am sure you will find many helping hands as people here are very nice, contrary to what you might expect by reading RAS :). Enjoy great soaring and great country.

Andrzej

[Dave Walsh]

At 13:24 26 December 2015, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
>On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 7:45:06 AM UTC-5,
Jim White wrote:
>> On a whim I said to my long suffering wife that I would
like to tour the
>> USA with my glider, see the sights and enjoy the
soaring. Surprisingly
>she
>> said that she would come with me!
>>
>> I have a time budget of 2-3 years but modest financial
resources. So
>> gents...where and what time of year? If I could
construct a tour that
>> starts in up state NY went South down the Appalachians
then W to the
>> Sierras then N up the Rockies and back to the East coast
that would seem
>> sensible. I guess I could ship to anywhere on the East
Coast and go from
>> there.
>>
>> Advice on itinerary, welcoming clubs (with aero tow),
great soaring, good
>
>> things to see, places to stay etc. by email would be
great.
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> Jim
>>
>> BTW I am very happy to help run HDT task days / weeks
/ competitions
>along
>> the way if you would like.
>
>You should probably start in Franconia, NH, from there fly
to Sugerbush, VT
>then down to Springfield VT and then turn west to upstate
NY.
>
>Ship your glider via RORO to a port near Providance, RI
(about Euro 2k +
>insurance). That is where we ship our gliders from factories
in EU for East
>Coast destinations. I shipped two gliders from Europe
without any issues
>and the third one is on the way.
>
>I am sure you will find many helping hands as people here
are very nice,
>contrary to what you might expect by reading RAS :).
Enjoy great soaring
>and great country.
>
>Andrzej
>
Just recounted this thread to my wife: her response: "Jolly
good, off you go!"

[Soartech]

First get a self-launching glider. Otherwise you severely limit what days you can fly on. Most clubs only operate on weekends and the best weather is not always on a weekend as you know. Secondly you will save thousands in towing fees over the course of 2 to 3 years. Thirdly, this tour will not require 2 to 3 years when you can fly from almost any airfield you can drive to..

[Gav Goudie[_2_]]

I understand that Jim doesn't believe in the technology required for this
recommendation...

At 16:14 26 December 2015, Soartech wrote:
>First get a self-launching glider. Otherwise you severely limit what days
>y=
>ou can fly on. Most clubs only operate on weekends and the best weather
is
>=
>not always on a weekend as you know. Secondly you will save thousands in
>to=
>wing fees over the course of 2 to 3 years. Thirdly, this tour will not
>requ=
>ire 2 to 3 years when you can fly from almost any airfield you can drive
>to=
>..
>

[Casey Cox]

Yes most clubs only operate on the weekends. There are many commercial operations that operated most days of the week. I think EU has more clubs and less commercial operations if that is correct? I also think that commercial operations have more camping opportunities and/or a room to rent.

The SSA website has most all clubs and commercial operations listed on this google map:
http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFlyMap.asp

I have not been, but Carolina Soaring Association is a club in Spartanburg, SC and has a great winch I hear. I think some clubs in PA have winches as well. Many commercial sites have tow planes.

The climate is varied in the US and soaring is better in different parts of the country at different times of the year. Well, some may be good almost all the time, but I have not been all over neither. Florida is good in winter and early spring. Really hot during the rest of the year. Seminole Lake Gliderport in Fl, is a commercial site and has some accommodations, pool, and camping hook ups. You may consider renting an RV which will give you more options and a semi permanent residence.

I live in Eastern NC where soaring is limited but I have a spare room if you would like to get out of the RV for a couple days, or you are just passing by on the way south.

Anyway, I think I would start North around mid summer, drive south to Florida for mid winter, then head to west coast via south route stopping in TX, AZ, NV, CA by end of winter to early spring. Then head to Washington state for early summer, then head across the northern US stopping in PA and then back to port of entry to ship glider back. That is just saying 1 yr but you could stay longer is some places but the key would be to miss the mid summer in some places and mid winter in others.

[Allan J Barnes]

I spent 6 months in 2013 touring the USA across spring, summer and autumn. My itinerary worked pretty well, although I bought the glider and RV over there (FL) and shipped the glider back to Australia at the end of the trip (from CA).

The RV meant that my partner and I could combine the gliding holiday with a more ' normal' holiday, visit loads of National Parks and other attractions, as well as spending time at the best flying sites and timing it with comps as well.

I started in April in FL, flying Seminole, then moved on up the Appalachians, flying Knoxville City TN and Mid Atlantic Soaring PA before attending the first comp at Mifflin PA. Great ridge soaring. Then it was up to Ionia Michigan (in hindsight, the weather in this part of the US is too unreliable and I would happily exclude from a future itinerary). After that, across to Ephrata WA (would have been great to fly in Montana but time did not allow). Ephrata is a fabulous spot. Then down to Montague CA (another fabulous site, with Mt Shasta giving me my Diamond Height), and across to Lake Tahoe and Air Sailing NV. After that we headed east again to Ely NV and Parowan UT (both brilliant) before heading across to Uvalde TX for the end of the Worlds. Then west again to fly at Marfa (highly recommended) before finishing off at Warner Springs gliderport prior to shipping the glider home and selling the RV in September.

Overall a fabulous trip with a good mix of flying and sightseeing. I would focus on the west and mountains - the flying in the east is much more European and patchy. It would be a tough trip to do without support - I don't think I would be brave enough to attempt even with a motorglider.

flOn Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 9:37:47 AM UTC+11, Casey Cox wrote:
> Yes most clubs only operate on the weekends. There are many commercial operations that operated most days of the week. I think EU has more clubs and less commercial operations if that is correct? I also think that commercial operations have more camping opportunities and/or a room to rent.
>
> The SSA website has most all clubs and commercial operations listed on this google map:
> http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFlyMap.asp
>
> I have not been, but Carolina Soaring Association is a club in Spartanburg, SC and has a great winch I hear. I think some clubs in PA have winches as well. Many commercial sites have tow planes.
>
> The climate is varied in the US and soaring is better in different parts of the country at different times of the year. Well, some may be good almost all the time, but I have not been all over neither. Florida is good in winter and early spring. Really hot during the rest of the year. Seminole Lake Gliderport in Fl, is a commercial site and has some accommodations, pool, and camping hook ups. You may consider renting an RV which will give you more options and a semi permanent residence.
>
> I live in Eastern NC where soaring is limited but I have a spare room if you would like to get out of the RV for a couple days, or you are just passing by on the way south.
>
> Anyway, I think I would start North around mid summer, drive south to Florida for mid winter, then head to west coast via south route stopping in TX, AZ, NV, CA by end of winter to early spring. Then head to Washington state for early summer, then head across the northern US stopping in PA and then back to port of entry to ship glider back. That is just saying 1 yr but you could stay longer is some places but the key would be to miss the mid summer in some places and mid winter in others.

[John Cochrane[_3_]]

One great way to do this and not worry about tows, ground crew, and so forth, is to follow the US race season around. Go to ssa.org then racing and racing calendar. Starting with the seniors in florida, there is usually a 6 month schedule that follows the best weather around the country.

John Cochrane

[Jim Crawford]

Allan, your post strikes a chord with a cunning plan I'm
developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you give me an idea of the
likely cost of buying a small camper van - I'm considering
shipping mine from the UK and, apart from the cost, I'm
uncertain as yet about the requirements regarding the
temporary importation of a foreign registered vehicle (emissions
and the like). Buying and selling may be an easier alternative. I
assume that shipping the glider to Oz was in a trailer and RORO
ferry? Any advice and costings for that would be appreciated.

Jim

At 00:34 27 December 2015, Allan J Barnes wrote:
>I spent 6 months in 2013 touring the USA across spring,
summer and autumn.
>=
>My itinerary worked pretty well, although I bought the glider
and RV over
>t=
>here (FL) and shipped the glider back to Australia at the end of
the trip
>(=
>from CA).
>
>The RV meant that my partner and I could combine the gliding
holiday with
>a=
> more ' normal' holiday, visit loads of National Parks and other
>attraction=
>s, as well as spending time at the best flying sites and timing it
with
>com=
>ps as well.
>
>I started in April in FL, flying Seminole, then moved on up the
>Appalachian=
>s, flying Knoxville City TN and Mid Atlantic Soaring PA before
attending
>th=
>e first comp at Mifflin PA. Great ridge soaring. Then it was up
to Ionia
>Mi=
>chigan (in hindsight, the weather in this part of the US is too
unreliable
>=
>and I would happily exclude from a future itinerary). After that,
across
>to=
> Ephrata WA (would have been great to fly in Montana but time
did not
>allow=
>). Ephrata is a fabulous spot. Then down to Montague CA
(another fabulous
>s=
>ite, with Mt Shasta giving me my Diamond Height), and across
to Lake
>Tahoe=
> and Air Sailing NV. After that we headed east again to Ely NV
and Parowan
>=
>UT (both brilliant) before heading across to Uvalde TX for the
end of the
>W=
>orlds. Then west again to fly at Marfa (highly recommended)
before
>finishin=
>g off at Warner Springs gliderport prior to shipping the glider
home and
>se=
>lling the RV in September.
>
>Overall a fabulous trip with a good mix of flying and
sightseeing. I would
>=
>focus on the west and mountains - the flying in the east is
much more
>Europ=
>ean and patchy. It would be a tough trip to do without support
- I don't
>th=
>ink I would be brave enough to attempt even with a
motorglider.
>
> flOn Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 9:37:47 AM UTC+11,
Casey Cox wrote:
>> Yes most clubs only operate on the weekends. There are
many commercial
>o=
>perations that operated most days of the week. I think EU has
more clubs
>a=
>nd less commercial operations if that is correct? I also think
that
>commer=
>cial operations have more camping opportunities and/or a
room to rent.
>>=20
>> The SSA website has most all clubs and commercial
operations listed on
>th=
>is google map:
>> http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFlyMap.asp
>>=20
>> I have not been, but Carolina Soaring Association is a club in
>Spartanbur=
>g, SC and has a great winch I hear. I think some clubs in PA
have winches
>=
>as well. Many commercial sites have tow planes.
>>=20
>> The climate is varied in the US and soaring is better in
different parts
>=
>of the country at different times of the year. Well, some may
be good
>almo=
>st all the time, but I have not been all over neither. Florida is
good in
>=
>winter and early spring. Really hot during the rest of the year.
>Seminole=
> Lake Gliderport in Fl, is a commercial site and has some
accommodations,
>p=
>ool, and camping hook ups. You may consider renting an RV
which will give
>=
>you more options and a semi permanent residence.=20
>>=20
>> I live in Eastern NC where soaring is limited but I have a
spare room if
>=
>you would like to get out of the RV for a couple days, or you
are just
>pass=
>ing by on the way south.
>>=20
>> Anyway, I think I would start North around mid summer,
drive south to
>Flo=
>rida for mid winter, then head to west coast via south route
stopping in
>TX=
>, AZ, NV, CA by end of winter to early spring. Then head to
Washington
>sta=
>te for early summer, then head across the northern US
stopping in PA and
>th=
>en back to port of entry to ship glider back. That is just saying
1 yr
>but=
> you could stay longer is some places but the key would be to
miss the mid
>=
>summer in some places and mid winter in others.
>
>

[George Haeh]

You might want to compare container
costs to RORO. The trick is getting the
trailer out of container at destination - you
want to sort out ahead of time.

At 12:16 27 December 2015, Jim Crawford
wrote:
>
>Allan, your post strikes a chord with a
cunning plan I'm
>developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you
give me an idea of the
>likely cost of buying a small camper van -
I'm considering
>shipping mine from the UK and, apart
from the cost, I'm
>uncertain as yet about the requirements
regarding the
>temporary importation of a foreign
registered vehicle (emissions
>and the like). Buying and selling may be
an easier alternative. I
>assume that shipping the glider to Oz
was in a trailer and RORO
>ferry? Any advice and costings for that
would be appreciated.
>
>Jim

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 12:15:04 PM UTC-5, George Haeh wrote:
> You might want to compare container
> costs to RORO. The trick is getting the
> trailer out of container at destination - you
> want to sort out ahead of time.
>
> At 12:16 27 December 2015, Jim Crawford
> wrote:
> >
> >Allan, your post strikes a chord with a
> cunning plan I'm
> >developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you
> give me an idea of the
> >likely cost of buying a small camper van -
> I'm considering
> >shipping mine from the UK and, apart
> from the cost, I'm
> >uncertain as yet about the requirements
> regarding the
> >temporary importation of a foreign
> registered vehicle (emissions
> >and the like). Buying and selling may be
> an easier alternative. I
> >assume that shipping the glider to Oz
> was in a trailer and RORO
> >ferry? Any advice and costings for that
> would be appreciated.
> >
> >Jim

Recent experience showed that container is about twice as expensive as RORO and more headaches coming to the US. It worked for us because we brought 2 gliders in trailers plus a crap load of parts.
UH

[JS]

Some friends brought their camper van from the UK for a US adventure. The gas fittings were different. Unsure if this has been remedied or an adapter is still required.

There's no RORO between USA and Australia. Shop for container space early, and you may find a thousand dollar difference each way.
Jim

[Dan Marotta]

And, of course, between TX and AZ you'll find NM and a bit to the north,
you'll find CO. Neither should be overlooked.

On 12/26/2015 3:37 PM, Casey Cox wrote:
> Anyway, I think I would start North around mid summer, drive south to Florida for mid winter, then head to west coast via south route stopping in TX, AZ, NV, CA by end of winter to early spring.

--
Dan, 5J

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 7:30:18 AM UTC-5, Jim Crawford wrote:
> Allan, your post strikes a chord with a cunning plan I'm
> developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you give me an idea of the
> likely cost of buying a small camper van - I'm considering
> shipping mine from the UK and, apart from the cost, I'm
> uncertain as yet about the requirements regarding the
> temporary importation of a foreign registered vehicle (emissions
> and the like). Buying and selling may be an easier alternative. I
> assume that shipping the glider to Oz was in a trailer and RORO
> ferry? Any advice and costings for that would be appreciated.
>
> Jim
>
> At 00:34 27 December 2015, Allan J Barnes wrote:
> >I spent 6 months in 2013 touring the USA across spring,
> summer and autumn.
> >=
> >My itinerary worked pretty well, although I bought the glider
> and RV over
> >t=
> >here (FL) and shipped the glider back to Australia at the end of
> the trip
> >(=
> >from CA).
> >
> >The RV meant that my partner and I could combine the gliding
> holiday with
> >a=
> > more ' normal' holiday, visit loads of National Parks and other
> >attraction=
> >s, as well as spending time at the best flying sites and timing it
> with
> >com=
> >ps as well.
> >
> >I started in April in FL, flying Seminole, then moved on up the
> >Appalachian=
> >s, flying Knoxville City TN and Mid Atlantic Soaring PA before
> attending
> >th=
> >e first comp at Mifflin PA. Great ridge soaring. Then it was up
> to Ionia
> >Mi=
> >chigan (in hindsight, the weather in this part of the US is too
> unreliable
> >=
> >and I would happily exclude from a future itinerary). After that,
> across
> >to=
> > Ephrata WA (would have been great to fly in Montana but time
> did not
> >allow=
> >). Ephrata is a fabulous spot. Then down to Montague CA
> (another fabulous
> >s=
> >ite, with Mt Shasta giving me my Diamond Height), and across
> to Lake
> >Tahoe=
> > and Air Sailing NV. After that we headed east again to Ely NV
> and Parowan
> >=
> >UT (both brilliant) before heading across to Uvalde TX for the
> end of the
> >W=
> >orlds. Then west again to fly at Marfa (highly recommended)
> before
> >finishin=
> >g off at Warner Springs gliderport prior to shipping the glider
> home and
> >se=
> >lling the RV in September.
> >
> >Overall a fabulous trip with a good mix of flying and
> sightseeing. I would
> >=
> >focus on the west and mountains - the flying in the east is
> much more
> >Europ=
> >ean and patchy. It would be a tough trip to do without support
> - I don't
> >th=
> >ink I would be brave enough to attempt even with a
> motorglider.
> >
> > flOn Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 9:37:47 AM UTC+11,
> Casey Cox wrote:
> >> Yes most clubs only operate on the weekends. There are
> many commercial
> >o=
> >perations that operated most days of the week. I think EU has
> more clubs
> >a=
> >nd less commercial operations if that is correct? I also think
> that
> >commer=
> >cial operations have more camping opportunities and/or a
> room to rent.
> >>=20
> >> The SSA website has most all clubs and commercial
> operations listed on
> >th=
> >is google map:
> >> http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFlyMap.asp
> >>=20
> >> I have not been, but Carolina Soaring Association is a club in
> >Spartanbur=
> >g, SC and has a great winch I hear. I think some clubs in PA
> have winches
> >=
> >as well. Many commercial sites have tow planes.
> >>=20
> >> The climate is varied in the US and soaring is better in
> different parts
> >=
> >of the country at different times of the year. Well, some may
> be good
> >almo=
> >st all the time, but I have not been all over neither. Florida is
> good in
> >=
> >winter and early spring. Really hot during the rest of the year.
> >Seminole=
> > Lake Gliderport in Fl, is a commercial site and has some
> accommodations,
> >p=
> >ool, and camping hook ups. You may consider renting an RV
> which will give
> >=
> >you more options and a semi permanent residence.=20
> >>=20
> >> I live in Eastern NC where soaring is limited but I have a
> spare room if
> >=
> >you would like to get out of the RV for a couple days, or you
> are just
> >pass=
> >ing by on the way south.
> >>=20
> >> Anyway, I think I would start North around mid summer,
> drive south to
> >Flo=
> >rida for mid winter, then head to west coast via south route
> stopping in
> >TX=
> >, AZ, NV, CA by end of winter to early spring. Then head to
> Washington
> >sta=
> >te for early summer, then head across the northern US
> stopping in PA and
> >th=
> >en back to port of entry to ship glider back. That is just saying
> 1 yr
> >but=
> > you could stay longer is some places but the key would be to
> miss the mid
> >=
> >summer in some places and mid winter in others.
> >
> >

In US motorhomes are very popular, much more popular than in Europe. A new "View" would cost about $100k but if you are willing to buy a 10 year old RV in excellent shape depending on size it would be between $20-40k. The 24 foot RV would be about $20-$25k and a 30 foot RV about 40k.

If you have time to shop you can come across an excellent deal. My best guess is that bringing a 25 foot motorhome on the RORO to US would cost around $2.5k one way, probably cheaper if you shop around, especially these days.

I do not think you will have a problem with EPA (emissions) but you will likely be required to post a bond. It is not uncommon to see European RVs on US campsites in Rocky Mountains so it is doable, but it requires careful consideration. You would be wise to contact a customs broker in US who could help you with paper work.

You also need to consider the fuel available in US. The octane rating is generally lower than in EU, the highest is 93. Our gasoline contains 10% of ethanol so you need to consider that as well. If you bring a diesel powered vehicle then you would be fine, but you need to avoid bio diesel, e.g. in Florida.

Finally, while you could find excellent motorhome deals you might also buy a problem. I only rented an RV once in my life and I found mold in the RV. I returned that RV next day and the following year I bought a brand new vehicle.

If I were you I would try to bring your own vehicle if the cost is reasonable. Nothing like sleeping in your own bed :)

Good luck. Andrzej

[George Haeh]

You might want to compare container
costs to RORO. The trick is getting the
trailer out of container at destination - you
want to sort out ahead of time.

At 12:16 27 December 2015, Jim Crawford
wrote:
>
>Allan, your post strikes a chord with a
cunning plan I'm
>developing for 2017 or 2018. Can you
give me an idea of the
>likely cost of buying a small camper van -
I'm considering
>shipping mine from the UK and, apart
from the cost, I'm
>uncertain as yet about the requirements
regarding the
>temporary importation of a foreign
registered vehicle (emissions
>and the like). Buying and selling may be
an easier alternative. I
>assume that shipping the glider to Oz
was in a trailer and RORO
>ferry? Any advice and costings for that
would be appreciated.
>
>Jim

[Casey Cox]

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 12:45:51 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> And, of course, between TX and AZ you'll find NM and a bit to the
> north, you'll find CO.* Neither should be overlooked.
>
Oh, Of course. Just stating a general idea to void hot humid FL in Summer and North during winter.

And those commercial and larger clubs having regattas or comps along the way would be interesting.

[Jim White[_3_]]

Gav, I have nothing against engines per se. They just have no place in
gliding competition.

At 21:24 26 December 2015, Gav Goudie wrote:
>I understand that Jim doesn't believe in the technology required for this

>recommendation...
>
>At 16:14 26 December 2015, Soartech wrote:
>>First get a self-launching glider. Otherwise you severely limit what
days
>>y=
>>ou can fly on. Most clubs only operate on weekends and the best weathe
>is
>>=
>>not always on a weekend as you know. Secondly you will save thousands in
>>to=
>>wing fees over the course of 2 to 3 years. Thirdly, this tour will not
>>requ=
>>ire 2 to 3 years when you can fly from almost any airfield you can drive
>>to=
>>..
>>
>
>

[Peter Smith[_3_]]

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 7:45:06 AM UTC-5, Jim White wrote:
> On a whim I said to my long suffering wife that I would like to tour the
> USA with my glider, see the sights and enjoy the soaring. Surprisingly she
> said that she would come with me!
>
> I have a time budget of 2-3 years but modest financial resources. So
> gents...where and what time of year? If I could construct a tour that
> starts in up state NY went South down the Appalachians then W to the
> Sierras then N up the Rockies and back to the East coast that would seem
> sensible. I guess I could ship to anywhere on the East Coast and go from
> there.
>
> Advice on itinerary, welcoming clubs (with aero tow), great soaring, good
> things to see, places to stay etc. by email would be great.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Jim
>
> BTW I am very happy to help run HDT task days / weeks / competitions along
> the way if you would like.

Any glider pilot's visit to the U.S. should include Harris Hill and the National Soaring Museum at Elmira, NY. Harris Hill operates weekends only April until late June (but arrangements can be made for weekdays), seven days a week late June-1st weekend in September, then weekends through October. Of special interest in 2016 will be the International Vintage Sailplane Meet, July 9-16. Nearby worthwhile attractions include the Finger Lakes Wine Country, the Corning Museum of Glass & the Watkins Glen International Raceway.

[[email protected]]

Jim,

I've spent the last four summers "on the road" with my gliders (2012- ASW27, 2013-Duo Discus X, 2014 and 2015 ASH30Mi) (not all at once). I've got tons of advice and lessons learned, but the most important thing to figure out is "Where and when can I get a tow?" followed closely by "Who's coming to get me when I land out?" (Not "if" you notice.") I have takeoffs and landings from airports from Colorado west to Hawaii and Idaho south to Tucson. Only 3 landouts on other-than-hard surface runways. Let me know if you'd care to discuss via phone.

Tom Bjork
SF

[Gav Goudie[_2_]]

It would however appear that they do Jim!
Anyway, have you been round the corner yet for the LAPL / SEP groundschool

notes...?

GG

At 23:25 27 December 2015, Jim White wrote:
>Gav, I have nothing against engines per se. They just have no place i
>gliding competition.
>
>At 21:24 26 December 2015, Gav Goudie wrote:
>>I understand that Jim doesn't believe in the technology required for thi
>
>>recommendation...
>>
>>At 16:14 26 December 2015, Soartech wrote:
>>>First get a self-launching glider. Otherwise you severely limit wha
>days
>>>y=
>>>ou can fly on. Most clubs only operate on weekends and the best weathe
>>is
>>>=
>>>not always on a weekend as you know. Secondly you will save thousands
in
>>>to=
>>>wing fees over the course of 2 to 3 years. Thirdly, this tour will not
>>>requ=
>>>ire 2 to 3 years when you can fly from almost any airfield you can
drive
>>>to=
>>>..
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Bruce Hoult]

On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 9:07:34 PM UTC+3, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> You also need to consider the fuel available in US. The octane rating is generally lower than in EU, the highest is 93.

That's because they're not using the same units!!

Most of the world -- certainly Europe (including here in Russia) and New Zealand/Aus use RON (Research Octane Number). "Standard" fuel is usually 91. traditional "super" 95 or 96, and newer super 98.

The US and Canada use (RON+MON)/2, which is generally 4 - 6 points lower for the exact same fuel.

[Dan Marotta]

Interesting...

Since I'm interested in buying a Stemme S10-VT I checked the flight
manual and it requires either 100LL avgas or 96 octane mogas. I don't
recall it stating the whether it was RON only or the average as used in
the USA. Can anyone comment on that?

On 1/1/2016 12:32 PM, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 9:07:34 PM UTC+3, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
>> You also need to consider the fuel available in US. The octane rating is generally lower than in EU, the highest is 93.
> That's because they're not using the same units!!
>
> Most of the world -- certainly Europe (including here in Russia) and New Zealand/Aus use RON (Research Octane Number). "Standard" fuel is usually 91. traditional "super" 95 or 96, and newer super 98.
>
> The US and Canada use (RON+MON)/2, which is generally 4 - 6 points lower for the exact same fuel.

--
Dan, 5J