New Silver Distance Rules?

[Terry Pitts]

All,

I searched for "silver distance" before starting this thread. The top of the list was my own "Silver Distance Denied" thread from last March.

Some of you may recall my attempt at Silver Distance was denied earlier this year. The OO told me that was going to be the case, but I wanted to submit it anyway. Rejected, as you know.

I had a turn point north of Minden and one to the south. The length of the leg from the northern turn point to where I missed the southern turn point is about 52km.

It's my understanding that the rules as of October 1, 2015 allow for a single turn point and a leg of more than 50km, meaning my flight would qualify under the new rules.

You can see where this is going.

Can a flight made before October 1 be (re)submitted under the new rules? If so, where in the rules would I find that? I've done a bit of searching and have not found something on the order of "flights made before... or after... must..."

Thanks in advance,

Terry

PS It would be great if this could count. I have accepted a job in Germany for three years and finding OOs who are SSA members/etc. will be difficult.

[Dan Marotta]

I doubt you could submit a flight flown under old rules. Can you not do
another flight before going to Germany?

You might query the SSA if a qualified OO from another country could
observe for your badge legs, or you might join the local organization to
work on your badges. I don't see why citizenship in the country where
the flight is accomplished would matter. Who knows - you could come
home with a "D" on your completed badge rather than an "N".

On 12/28/2015 10:50 AM, Terry Pitts wrote:
> All,
>
> I searched for "silver distance" before starting this thread. The top of the list was my own "Silver Distance Denied" thread from last March.
>
> Some of you may recall my attempt at Silver Distance was denied earlier this year. The OO told me that was going to be the case, but I wanted to submit it anyway. Rejected, as you know.
>
> I had a turn point north of Minden and one to the south. The length of the leg from the northern turn point to where I missed the southern turn point is about 52km.
>
> It's my understanding that the rules as of October 1, 2015 allow for a single turn point and a leg of more than 50km, meaning my flight would qualify under the new rules.
>
> You can see where this is going.
>
> Can a flight made before October 1 be (re)submitted under the new rules? If so, where in the rules would I find that? I've done a bit of searching and have not found something on the order of "flights made before... or after... must..."
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Terry
>
> PS It would be great if this could count. I have accepted a job in Germany for three years and finding OOs who are SSA members/etc. will be difficult.

--
Dan, 5J

[Terry Pitts]

On Monday, December 28, 2015 at 1:06:31 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I doubt you could submit a flight flown under old rules.* Can you
> not do another flight before going to Germany?
>
>
>
> You might query the SSA if a qualified OO from another country could
> observe for your badge legs, or you might join the local
> organization to work on your badges.* I don't see why citizenship in
> the country where the flight is accomplished would matter.* Who
> knows - you could come home with a "D" on your completed badge
> rather than an "N".
>
>
>

Dan - I have to agree with you on the likelihood, thought I'd ask a wider, smarter body of people than me. I am in Germany now. I've visited one possible glider club* and hope to visit another this weekend. Cross country soaring is very popular as you can imagine, so I expect I'll have many chances. :)

There is no "D" on German badges. They invented them, so all the other countries get letters. Other than A, B, and C I didn't notice any interest in badges when I flew here 2011-2013. OLC is the big thing - all you need is a GPS logger and an account. No arcane/archaic rules.

The SSA let me substitute a German instructor for the required SSA Instructor for the Bronze written test.

My German's pretty good, but I can barely understand the FAI rules in English!

Thanks for the feed back!

Terry

*Flew a Super Dimona on one of the few sunny days in the month I've been here. Never flown a motor glider before; enjoyed it!

[Papa3[_2_]]

Well, I guess you get style points for creativity :-)

The Cover Page clearly states "Valid from 1 October 2015". While I guess you might want it to say something like "Valid for Flights Made from 1 October 2015", that's certainly implied. Otherwise, every time a major change is made (which happens from time-to-time), people could submit 20 or 30 year old flights.

Erik Mann (P3)
Formerly SSA Badge and Record Chairman (now happily out of that mess)

[[email protected]]

Terry, I dont recall the issue with your flight, but I think it was that you missed the 2nd turn. The new rules would not help in that case, and more likly if you needed to fly north to a turn, and then south to make the distance the new rules will work against you.

The new rules require you to fly from release to a landing, or a declared turnpoint at least 50km away from your release. So no longer can you "remote start" like you could in the past.

Rick
Current Badge and Record committe member (who had nothing to do with making this change ;-)

[D M[_2_]]

Most of you fail to realize the purpose of the badging system. It is to
encourage pilots to fly cross country. It is poor form for a pilot to think
just
because he sets out to fly that he deserves a badge. The rules are set so
that there is standardization for pilots to compare skill level in the
community. The badging system with the OO's responsibilities also
encourage knowledge of the rules for this sport. If the badges were easy,
everybody would have their diamond badge. The system has worked for
years. I am saddened that any of the rules are modified unless it is for
the
purpose of safety. My 2 cents. D

[[email protected]]

"So no longer can you "remote start" like you could in the past. "

But you can of course have the tow plane haul you all the way to a start point 25 or 50KM away from home if you like. Brilliant rule change. (Not that I'm blaming you)

[Christopher Giacomo]

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:06:51 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> "So no longer can you "remote start" like you could in the past. "
>
> But you can of course have the tow plane haul you all the way to a start point 25 or 50KM away from home if you like. Brilliant rule change. (Not that I'm blaming you)

It certainly does take away a lot of the "safe" silver options, where you would fly 25 km on either side of your home airport. I think this is for the best though, as for newer pilots it really does open your mind up to moving beyond the patch and making an actual off-field landing.

There is still some room for creativity though, like making a final glide silver distance from the wave without turning once....
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=1569283873

[[email protected]]

Here is an interesting video of someone who's gold badge was denied.


http://youtu.be/TZvqSXmPB6Y

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 10:51:02 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Here is an interesting video of someone who's gold badge was denied.
>
>
> http://youtu.be/TZvqSXmPB6Y

ROTFLMAO....... that scene has been the basis for quite a few "redo's of the wording"......
I can understand the frustration.....

Wonder when someone will do that scene regarding FLARM..... ;-)

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I have viewed this scene adapted for many topics. Anyone know the original movie?

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I have viewed this scene adapted for many topics. Anyone know the original movie?

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I have viewed this scene adapted for many topics. Anyone know the original movie?

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 7:03:21 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> I have viewed this scene adapted for many topics. Anyone know the original movie?

It's called "Der Untergang" (Downfall). It's the story of the end of the
inner circle of Nazi Germany at the end of WWII. It's available with
subtitles online in various places if you look for it -- a pretty good
movie.

Matt

[Terry Pitts]

>
> The new rules require you to fly from release to a landing, or a declared turnpoint at least 50km away from your release. So no longer can you "remote start" like you could in the past.
>
> Rick
> Current Badge and Record committe member (who had nothing to do with making this change ;-)

Ah. I was under the impression a 50km leg was sufficient.

So, you could fly north 49km from release, turn south to a point 98km away (49km south of release), and have essentially flown a 196km triangle but never got 50km from release, so it wouldn't count?

>20 or 30 year old flights

Doesn't the claim have to be submitted within one year of the flight?

I have so much to learn!

BGA rules require a Silver badge before becoming an instructor. German rules before EASA required the same. Of course, the FARs require the incredibly difficult Commercial Pilot, Glider, certificate which no one else does. :)

Happy New Year,

Terry

PS So, I can get an aerotow 51km upwind on a nice cloud street...