Holy UAT, Batman

[Dan Marotta]

I just learned of this little gem: Open Source ADS-B In
<http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-communities-and-interests/homebuilt-aircraft-and-homebuilt-aircraft-kits/resources-for-while-youre-building/building-articles/instruments-and-avionics/live-weather-and-traffic-for-less-than-$120>

For the money this looks like in interesting project for these gloomy
winter days. A second receiver (~$25) can be added for 1090ES.
--
Dan, 5J

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 2:12:10 PM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I just learned of this little gem: Open Source ADS-B In
>
> For the money this looks like in interesting project for these
> gloomy winter days. A second receiver (~$25) can be added for
> 1090ES.

There have been a number of Raspberry Pi-based ADS-B In projects that can deliver ADS-B Out traffic as well as TIS-B (delivering ADS-B 1090ES, UAT and Mode C/S traffic for a 15 mile radius around you if you have ADS-B Out), plus FIS-B (including weather) AND any TIS-B traffic delivered to ADS-B Out-equipped traffic near you.

All for a lot under $100. With the right software you could deliver an NMEA stream to be MUXed with any other NMEA data you want to go do a display of your choice.

The really interesting detail from the EAA is that you might be able to receive all this information without equipping with ADS-B Out (though that may well be required for gliders post 2020.

Relevant excerpt:

"In most areas an ADS-B in signal can be had at or just above pattern altitude. You will begin receiving NEXRAD radar, METARs, TAFs, NOTAMs, TFRs, and other Flight Information Service - Broadcast (FIS-B) products. Some apps will explicitly note that these products are being received via ADS-B. With one radio tuner the unit will pick up traffic squawking ADS-B out on 978 MHz. If you are ADS-B out equipped, you will also receive TIS-B traffic. TIS-B is datalinked to FAA radar, meaning you get Mode C and primary targets. EAA is working with the FAA to expand TIS-B availability to all aircraft, not just those equipped with ADS-B out."

Pretty cool - you'll be able to see every aircraft for as far as you want to look - ultimately including most gliders I expect.

9B

[Sarah[_2_]]

It works well, and is pretty much a put-it-together-and it-works kit.

The drawback is any display requires an android or iOS app (foreflight), neither of which is especially handy in a glider cockpit. I used foreflight, and it showed weather & 1090es/UAT traffic if there was a ground station in line of sight.

The other problem is I found it to be noisy enough to break squelch on my glider radio(s), especially handhelds. A bit of experimenting with a shielded (metal foil?) case may fix that.

But I'm done playing. I have a Pi2, two SDR radios for dual UAT/1090es, a USB hub and miscellaneous cables. Anyone want to buy it off me? $75 including shipping. I never did get a 3d printed case.

The FLARM displays have much better ADSB 1090es displays - but of course require buying the FLARM core.

As far as traffic coverage - I would not rely on UAT TIS-b without an ADSB-out aircraft very near. Otherwise you won't see anything but 1090es ADSB.

"EAA is working with the FAA to expand TIS-B availability to all aircraft, not just those equipped with ADS-B out."
Don't hold your breath on that one. Selective broadcast is still the plan.

Sarah Anderson

On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 4:12:10 PM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I just learned of this little gem:* Open
> Source ADS-B In
>
> For the money this looks like in interesting project for these
> gloomy winter days.* A second receiver (~$25) can be added for
> 1090ES.
>
> Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

Hi Sarah,

PM sent.

Dan

On 1/1/2016 4:24 PM, Sarah wrote:
> It works well, and is pretty much a put-it-together-and it-works kit.
>
> The drawback is any display requires an android or iOS app (foreflight), neither of which is especially handy in a glider cockpit. I used foreflight, and it showed weather & 1090es/UAT traffic if there was a ground station in line of sight.
>
> The other problem is I found it to be noisy enough to break squelch on my glider radio(s), especially handhelds. A bit of experimenting with a shielded (metal foil?) case may fix that.
>
> But I'm done playing. I have a Pi2, two SDR radios for dual UAT/1090es, a USB hub and miscellaneous cables. Anyone want to buy it off me? $75 including shipping. I never did get a 3d printed case.
>
> The FLARM displays have much better ADSB 1090es displays - but of course require buying the FLARM core.
>
> As far as traffic coverage - I would not rely on UAT TIS-b without an ADSB-out aircraft very near. Otherwise you won't see anything but 1090es ADSB.
>
> "EAA is working with the FAA to expand TIS-B availability to all aircraft, not just those equipped with ADS-B out."
> Don't hold your breath on that one. Selective broadcast is still the plan.
>
> Sarah Anderson
>
> On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 4:12:10 PM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> I just learned of this little gem: Open
>> Source ADS-B In
>>
>> For the money this looks like in interesting project for these
>> gloomy winter days. A second receiver (~$25) can be added for
>> 1090ES.
>>
>> Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

[Darryl Ramm]

On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 3:24:05 PM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
/snip/

> As far as traffic coverage - I would not rely on UAT TIS-b without an ADSB-out aircraft very near. Otherwise you won't see anything but 1090es ADSB.

Which means you really can't rely on it at all.

> "EAA is working with the FAA to expand TIS-B availability to all aircraft, not just those equipped with ADS-B out."
> Don't hold your breath on that one. Selective broadcast is still the plan.


Exactly. Wishing is not having.

And has been discussed here recently, the FAA is actually tightening up requirements for ADS-B Out compliance.

The time for folks like AOPA and EAA to try to stop all this complexity and dual-link layer nonsense was really around a decade ago.

Darryl

[Darryl Ramm]

On Friday, January 1, 2016 at 3:24:05 PM UTC-8, Sarah wrote:
> It works well, and is pretty much a put-it-together-and it-works kit.
>
> The drawback is any display requires an android or iOS app (foreflight), neither of which is especially handy in a glider cockpit. I used foreflight, and it showed weather & 1090es/UAT traffic if there was a ground station in line of sight.
>
> The other problem is I found it to be noisy enough to break squelch on my glider radio(s), especially handhelds. A bit of experimenting with a shielded (metal foil?) case may fix that.
>
> But I'm done playing. I have a Pi2, two SDR radios for dual UAT/1090es, a USB hub and miscellaneous cables. Anyone want to buy it off me? $75 including shipping. I never did get a 3d printed case.
>
> The FLARM displays have much better ADSB 1090es displays - but of course require buying the FLARM core.
>
> As far as traffic coverage - I would not rely on UAT TIS-b without an ADSB-out aircraft very near. Otherwise you won't see anything but 1090es ADSB.

And a reminder that PowerFLARM will not decode TIS-B (or ADS-R) so if that is your ADS-B receiver it does not help if you gave correctly configured/complain ADS-B Out or not. The popular hacker-Rasberry PI receivers do decode TIS-B.

Remember to see a TIS-B broadcast, the target/threat aircraft has to be transponder equipped and within coverage of SSR and it and you have to be within FAA ADS-B ground service coverage (and if playing on the ground you pretty much need line of site to a FAA ADS-B ground tower providing overage for that volume... so may not receive much TIS-B or ADS-R at all). And there has to be at least one "client" aircraft within 15nm and +/- 3,500' of the threat aircraft has to have ADS-B Out (UAT or 1090ES) and and advertising it has ADS-B In on UAT or 1090ES link-layer.. and hopefully for that aircraft it is advertising correctly what it really has) and the threat aircraft must not be transmitting ADS-B Out (or the ground system would just do nothing or use ADS-R, depending on what it thinks any ADS-B In client aircraft can receive...). Complexity like this is why we can't have pretty things that just work... :-)

[Dan Marotta]

On 1/1/2016 5:06 PM, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> Exactly. Wishing is not having.
Yes, but part of something is better than all of nothing.

Sorry, couldn't resist that one. :-) Actually, Darryl, I very much
appreciate all you've posted on ADS-B. It's been very informative in
helping me make decisions for future operations. But, for me, this
software radio with DSP and output stream for various HW/SW products
already on the market looks like a great toy to while away the time
until spring makes more fun things realistic. And, if it actually
provides some traffic information, so much the better. I'll still be
looking outside. I think the realtime (neglecting unknown latency)
weather display will be fun to look at but, again, the view outside is
plenty sufficient for my kind of flying.
--
Dan, 5J

[Bill T]

I built my ADS-B reciever using Rasberry Pi2+ and STRATUX software. Displays great on my iPad Air2 with ForeFlight.
Works great in the T-41B, a little crowded in the glider unless you're running on a phone.

BillT

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

What would be cool would be if someone could have the traffic info stream out in NMEA instead of requiring Foreflight especially if it could output or the Raspberry Pi serial port so you could use a K6Mux to MUX the ADS-B UAT and TIS-B traffic into a normal glider display. Being able to overlay the FIS-B weather would be cool too. Yes I know that would require ADS-B out, but we may be required to do that in 2020 anyway.

How hard would that be?

9B

[Dave Leonard]

On Saturday, January 2, 2016 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-7, Andy Blackburn wrote:
> What would be cool would be if someone could have the traffic info stream out in NMEA instead of requiring Foreflight especially if it could output or the Raspberry Pi serial port so you could use a K6Mux to MUX the ADS-B UAT and TIS-B traffic into a normal glider display. Being able to overlay the FIS-B weather would be cool too. Yes I know that would require ADS-B out, but we may be required to do that in 2020 anyway.
>
> How hard would that be?
>
> 9B

You don't need ADS-B out to get FIS-B weather. Just line of sight to a UAT tower.

The Stratux software running on a Pi2 emulates a Stratus receiver that provides the same functionality. The data is shipped out in garmin GDL90 format via a wifi connection which lots of different aviation software and hardware platforms can display. Including free software that could run on your smart phone.

They are adding GPS and AHRS functionality to the software if you want to add those sensors like Stratus has, too. Its all open source so feel free to change what you want.

[JS]

What in-panel glider hardware will accept GDL90 format information?
Or is there some sort of G'zinta box to convert?
Jim

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

Somebody needs to write a Pi2 software routine to output NMEA plus whatever weather format LX Nav is accepting. It seems to me the traffic data needs to go out on a serial port and the weather would be via WiFi hotspot since that is what LXNav is using. I doubt they are in a hurry to build something that would only work in the US so you'd need to spoof what they are delivering via cellular data and WiFi hotspot - assuming it's not encrypted.

You'd need ADS-B Out with the right configuration to get TIS-B except for the random output meant for other aircraft.

9B

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Saturday, January 2, 2016 at 9:38:30 PM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
> Somebody needs to write a Pi2 software routine to output NMEA plus whatever weather format LX Nav is accepting. It seems to me the traffic data needs to go out on a serial port and the weather would be via WiFi hotspot since that is what LXNav is using. I doubt they are in a hurry to build something that would only work in the US so you'd need to spoof what they are delivering via cellular data and WiFi hotspot - assuming it's not encrypted.
>
> You'd need ADS-B Out with the right configuration to get TIS-B except for the random output meant for other aircraft.
>
> 9B

If there is one ADS-B out glider in a contest it will allow a bunch of other gliders to receive the data, although not with 15 nm radius. A few gliders could almost guarantee full picture for everyone for $120 an istallation.

RC can not make ADS-B out illegal. I already have ADS-B out as well as ADS-B in on both UAT and 1090 frequencies.

The prices of ADS-B out will be continuously coming down and installing one for experimental gliders is not a problem even today. With the Garmin new unit for $845 I am sure we will see more ADS-B out gliders soon if one already has a Trig 22 transponder, there is little reason not to do it.

There are more and more planes installing ADS-B out so even if someone does not have "out" they can still see a lot of traffic. That is true on Northern New England.

I would not have a problem with voluntarily restricting what I have in my cockpit for contest purposes as long as my safety is not jeopardized like with the Stealth mode.