DG quality?

[[email protected]]

I know this is somewhat subjective. Factory support agreements, etc. aside, has anyone noticed any difference in the quality of newer DG production models compared to SH and Schleicher? Thanks

[bumper[_4_]]

On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 1:34:21 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> I know this is somewhat subjective. Factory support agreements, etc. aside, has anyone noticed any difference in the quality of newer DG production models compared to SH and Schleicher? Thanks

Are you asking if DG's quality has gotten better or worse?

I don't know about newer or now. so this may be of no help at all and I've not heard of significant swings in quality either way. When I was comparing the DG800 to the ASH26E back in 2002, and after talking to a highly regarded composite shop who showed me some wing cutaways (things you wouldn't get to see about hidden construction quality pre-crash - unless you are handy with a chain saw), a busy local sailplane mechanic, as well as bouncing between the two at an SSA convention for a couple of hours, I chose the 26E. The veracity of the decision has been affirmed many times since.

bumper

MKIV "high tech" yaw string and Quiet Vent

[[email protected]]

Hey Bumper.
When are you releasing the ultra low drag version of your yaw string?

[bumper[_4_]]

On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 11:46:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> Hey Bumper.
> When are you releasing the ultra low drag version of your yaw string?

This ULD MKV project has been a closely guarded secret, so I'm curious how you found out about this. Very frustrating to have this leaked prior to our planned April 1st release date. We don't want the superlative MKV negatively impacting sales of the excellent MKIV's in stock at our dealers.

But that you've let out, here's a few details. Unlike the MKIV base that is about .038" thick to keep the yarn off the canopy, the MKV is only .005" thick. The "old" MKIV is installed on the outer surface of the canopy and is thus subject to all the vagaries of relative wind flow, turbulence, stalls, spins, falling out of the sky should you run out of wind, and of course the dreaded tail-spin.

The MKV is completely different and of epochal significance. Yes, people will refer to sailplanes as "pre and post MKV" it is that monumental a change in yaw string technology. The MKV installs inside the canopy so there's no additional drag whatsoever!

So, how did we do it? While some of the details of the new MKV are closely held trade secrets (hopefully more so than our leaked release date), I can share with you that the MKV will be available in three distinct models and several color options. The models are "Left", "Right", and we expect to be the most popular, "Center" version. In the interest of forthrightness, each model is really exactly the same except for packaging, price, and the angle of dangle in the installation instructions. We will be charging a premium for the Center model due to expected higher demand.

Installation is simple, even a non-pilot could do it after several beers. Peel your new MKV decal off backing paper and apply to inside surface of canopy, paying close attention to suggested installation angle. The MKV is guaranteed to be stable in all modes of flight.

Deciding which model is right for you is easy. If your have a heavy left foot, get the "Left" version and things will seem right (or left) most of the time. Heavy right footer should order the Right version. Helpful Hint: install all three and most always one of the MKV's will be close to spot on.

You may wish to order an old MKIV while they are still available. My guess is they are destined to become a collector's item, just as the pellet vario was made obsolete by the Electronic Pellet Vario.

bumper

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 1:34:21 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> I know this is somewhat subjective. Factory support agreements, etc. aside, has anyone noticed any difference in the quality of newer DG production models compared to SH and Schleicher? Thanks

I read somewhere they keep epoxy samples for every sailplane product they ever made as an effort in quality assurance. General composite work seems to be their forte as they apply it in a diversified fashion(velocopter for example). SH and Schleicher of course remaining focused on sailplanes. my 2 cents all high quality.

[Dave Walsh]

Interesting that "bumper" considered crash resistance in his
choice between DG800 and ASH26E. If surviving an accident is
the sort of thing that worries you remember that only DG offer
the NOAH pilot ejection system. I had one in a DG808C and
don't have one in my current motor glider: I miss it.
If you're of a more philosophic nature a bigger question might
be the relative merits of the engines in the 800/26E.
If you're a purist without an engine I'd stop worrying about DG
quality, it's fine, the finish/gel coat being notably long lasting.
In addition dealing with the DG company for spares,
information, etc was a joy - fast, efficient, reliable; never had a
problem in 10+ years.

My experience as customer of Schempp, as a part owner of a
Duo, was less wonderful.

Never owned a plastic Schleicher so can't help there.

[[email protected]]

Thanks Dave.

[Kevin Neave[_2_]]

NOAH is available as an option on Schempp-Hirth Gliders

KN

At 13:23 07 January 2016, Dave Walsh wrote:
>Interesting that "bumper" considered crash resistance in his
>choice between DG800 and ASH26E. If surviving an accident is
>the sort of thing that worries you remember that only DG offer
>the NOAH pilot ejection system. I had one in a DG808C and
>don't have one in my current motor glider: I miss it.
>If you're of a more philosophic nature a bigger question might
>be the relative merits of the engines in the 800/26E.
>If you're a purist without an engine I'd stop worrying about DG
>quality, it's fine, the finish/gel coat being notably long lasting.
>In addition dealing with the DG company for spares,
>information, etc was a joy - fast, efficient, reliable; never had a
>problem in 10+ years.
>
>My experience as customer of Schempp, as a part owner of a
>Duo, was less wonderful.
>
>Never owned a plastic Schleicher so can't help there.
>
>

[Richard Pfiffner]

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 4:21:15 PM UTC-8, bumper wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 11:46:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> > Hey Bumper.
> > When are you releasing the ultra low drag version of your yaw string?
>
> This ULD MKV project has been a closely guarded secret, so I'm curious how you found out about this. Very frustrating to have this leaked prior to our planned April 1st release date. We don't want the superlative MKV negatively impacting sales of the excellent MKIV's in stock at our dealers.
>
> But that you've let out, here's a few details. Unlike the MKIV base that is about .038" thick to keep the yarn off the canopy, the MKV is only .005" thick. The "old" MKIV is installed on the outer surface of the canopy and is thus subject to all the vagaries of relative wind flow, turbulence, stalls, spins, falling out of the sky should you run out of wind, and of course the dreaded tail-spin.
>
> The MKV is completely different and of epochal significance. Yes, people will refer to sailplanes as "pre and post MKV" it is that monumental a change in yaw string technology. The MKV installs inside the canopy so there's no additional drag whatsoever!
>
> So, how did we do it? While some of the details of the new MKV are closely held trade secrets (hopefully more so than our leaked release date), I can share with you that the MKV will be available in three distinct models and several color options. The models are "Left", "Right", and we expect to be the most popular, "Center" version. In the interest of forthrightness, each model is really exactly the same except for packaging, price, and the angle of dangle in the installation instructions. We will be charging a premium for the Center model due to expected higher demand.
>
> Installation is simple, even a non-pilot could do it after several beers. Peel your new MKV decal off backing paper and apply to inside surface of canopy, paying close attention to suggested installation angle. The MKV is guaranteed to be stable in all modes of flight.
>
> Deciding which model is right for you is easy. If your have a heavy left foot, get the "Left" version and things will seem right (or left) most of the time. Heavy right footer should order the Right version. Helpful Hint: install all three and most always one of the MKV's will be close to spot on.
>
> You may wish to order an old MKIV while they are still available. My guess is they are destined to become a collector's item, just as the pellet vario was made obsolete by the Electronic Pellet Vario.
>
> bumper

I have heard that the long awaited ULD MKV uses the new pink anti-static, low drag politically correct yarn.

Richard

[Dave Walsh]

I stand corrected; good that NOAH is available in Schempp
gliders. Ancient trials of ancient glider pilots trying to "bail
out" on the ground wearing added lead to simulate high g
forces showed that even fit pilots need help!
Dave Walsh

At 13:52 07 January 2016, Kevin Neave wrote:
>NOAH is available as an option on Schempp-Hirth Gliders
>
>KN
>
>At 13:23 07 January 2016, Dave Walsh wrote:
>>Interesting that "bumper" considered crash resistance in
his
>>choice between DG800 and ASH26E. If surviving an
accident is
>>the sort of thing that worries you remember that only DG
offer
>>the NOAH pilot ejection system. I had one in a DG808C
and
>>don't have one in my current motor glider: I miss it.
>>If you're of a more philosophic nature a bigger question
might
>>be the relative merits of the engines in the 800/26E.
>>If you're a purist without an engine I'd stop worrying
about DG
>>quality, it's fine, the finish/gel coat being notably long
lasting.
>>In addition dealing with the DG company for spares,
>>information, etc was a joy - fast, efficient, reliable; never
had a
>>problem in 10+ years.
>>
>>My experience as customer of Schempp, as a part owner
of a
>>Duo, was less wonderful.
>>
>>Never owned a plastic Schleicher so can't help there.
>>
>>
>
>

[[email protected]]

Am Donnerstag, 7. Januar 2016 21:00:10 UTC+1 schrieb Dave Walsh:
> I stand corrected; good that NOAH is available in Schempp
> gliders. Ancient trials of ancient glider pilots trying to "bail
> out" on the ground wearing added lead to simulate high g
> forces showed that even fit pilots need help!
> Dave Walsh

NOAH is (or was?) also offered by AS.

[[email protected]]

Of course I'm not going to write names here, but I remember pictures of the wing sections of different gliders actually showing cleaner, tidier or messier looks inside, especially in the spar/skins glueing areas. Those pictures have widely been used as selling points.
Nevertheless, I also remember brand new sailplanes with ballast leaking from the leading edge, so tidy doesn't always mean perfect.

Other sellers use the stability of wing profile as a selling point, which seems reasonable to me, as reprofiling is very expensive.

In the age of gelcoat, some makers used a product that would need a total repaint within 10 years or less, so a high quality finish was a strong selling point for the messier wings...

Occasionally sailplanes need fixing some original defects, and this is also where the service provided by the manufacturers highly differs. Kudos to the maker of my current ride for providing everything at no cost under warranty (in Europe the law provides 2 years protection from original defects to every customer). Some friends have had what I would consider totally unacceptable service by other makers, having to pay cash for their mistakes, and after lenghty discussions.

Ask around, then choose what you really like, it's the sailplane you are probably going to fly for a decade.

aldo cernezzi
www.voloavela.it

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, January 5, 2016 at 1:34:21 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> I know this is somewhat subjective. Factory support agreements, etc. aside, has anyone noticed any difference in the quality of newer DG production models compared to SH and Schleicher? Thanks

One of the hardest carrier landings I ever saw was on a DG1000. I was pretty impressed with the durability after seeing that and it never missed a beat and continued on flying..