1970 flight sim?

[Mad Scientist Jr]

in 1970 national geographic had a computer issue (forget which month)
that showed a flight simulator with graphics that looked pretty
advanced for those days. does anyone know what system that was, and if
it has been emulated?

[Paul Holmes]

When I was a Kid, mid eighties, I went to a computer show and there was a
flight sim on an amber screen monitor. I think it was based on a cessna with
wire graphic scenery that looked like oil well towers in texas.

Just cant remember anymore than that.

Anyone know about this?

Thanks,

Paul, UK.


"Mad Scientist Jr" > wrote in message
om...
> in 1970 national geographic had a computer issue (forget which month)
> that showed a flight simulator with graphics that looked pretty
> advanced for those days. does anyone know what system that was, and if
> it has been emulated?

[Mad Scientist Jr]

if you dig up the nat. geographic magazine from 1970, there are color
pictures that show full color graphics of a runway - this is years
before color video games began to appear. what system was this???

[Peter Duniho]

"Mad Scientist Jr" > wrote in message
om...
> if you dig up the nat. geographic magazine from 1970, there are color
> pictures that show full color graphics of a runway - this is years
> before color video games began to appear. what system was this???

I don't know -- I don't have that magazine around for me to dig up -- but
flight simulators predate wide-spread use of computers by at least a decade,
possibly more.

Early flight simulators include the pneumatically powered Link instrument
flight trainers, and visual trainers that used terrain models and a video
camera that was moved along the modeled terrain according to pilot inputs.

If I had to guess, I'd guess that the simulator depicted in the 1970
National Geographic issue is one of the television-based simulators.

Pete

[jbarnes0995]

It was probably for a Radio Shack TRS-Model 1 computer. I had one and
bought the software. A six mile by six mile virtual world. You could
just fly there or go into the soppwith camel combat mode and fly, shoot
at things like targets on the ground, etc. It was crude, yes, but I
learned a lot about flying way back then. I even talked to Bruce
Artwick himself, one time, on the phone. I'm still thrilled at talking
to such a genius. A few years later, in Chicago, I talked with a
lady that used to work there making SCENERY DISKS covering all of the
United States. I still enjoy FS-2004 with the ULTIMATE TRAFFIC 2004
Add-on.

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "Mad Scientist Jr" > wrote in message
> om...
>
>>if you dig up the nat. geographic magazine from 1970, there are color
>>pictures that show full color graphics of a runway - this is years
>>before color video games began to appear. what system was this???
>
>
> I don't know -- I don't have that magazine around for me to dig up -- but
> flight simulators predate wide-spread use of computers by at least a decade,
> possibly more.
>
> Early flight simulators include the pneumatically powered Link instrument
> flight trainers, and visual trainers that used terrain models and a video
> camera that was moved along the modeled terrain according to pilot inputs.
>
> If I had to guess, I'd guess that the simulator depicted in the 1970
> National Geographic issue is one of the television-based simulators.
>
> Pete
>
>

[Peter Duniho]

"jbarnes0995" > wrote in message
...
> It was probably for a Radio Shack TRS-Model 1 computer. [...]

Unlikely, for a variety of reasons. One, because the TRS-80 Model I (I
assume that's what you meant) didn't have a color display, nor was there any
flight sim for that computer as far as I can recall (I owned a Model III and
would have had a flight sim if one were available...with a screen resolution
of 128x48, it wasn't really suitable for flight simulation anyway).

Bruce Artwick's original program was for the Apple II, not the TRS-80 (later
available on the Commodore 64 and Atari 800, and of course eventually on the
IBM PC published by Microsoft). The most compelling reason it wasn't the
TRS-80 Model I, though, is that the original poster is writing about a
magazine issue from the year 1970, nearly a decade before the TRS-80 Model I
was made.

I think it's great you've enjoyed computer flight simulation for so many
years, but your memory has left you high and dry.

Pete

[Peter Bjoern]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:43:40 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote in rec.aviation.simulators:

>Unlikely, for a variety of reasons. One, because the TRS-80 Model I (I
>assume that's what you meant) didn't have a color display, nor was there any
>flight sim for that computer as far as I can recall (I owned a Model III and
>would have had a flight sim if one were available...with a screen resolution
>of 128x48, it wasn't really suitable for flight simulation anyway).

I had the TRS-80 Model I which I got way back in 1979 and there was indeed a
flight sim (FS1) for it which I also had.

It was of course (by today's standards) very crude with the 128x48 monochrome
display, but still I had a lot of fun with it.

You can see some information about it here :
http://simflight.com/~fshistory/fsh/fs1.htm

Regards

Peter

[jbarnes0995]

Sorry but I bought my first computer, a Model I Trash 80 in January
1976!! HA! No, it was not color, but it did run on Model I my friend!
I sold mine in 1981 to a guy who wanted one at home for his business.
$1,000 for $2,500 in software and $2,000 in hardware back then. It was
fun and rewarding for me. Jim

Peter Duniho wrote:
> "jbarnes0995" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>It was probably for a Radio Shack TRS-Model 1 computer. [...]
>
>
> Unlikely, for a variety of reasons. One, because the TRS-80 Model I (I
> assume that's what you meant) didn't have a color display, nor was there any
> flight sim for that computer as far as I can recall (I owned a Model III and
> would have had a flight sim if one were available...with a screen resolution
> of 128x48, it wasn't really suitable for flight simulation anyway).
>
> Bruce Artwick's original program was for the Apple II, not the TRS-80 (later
> available on the Commodore 64 and Atari 800, and of course eventually on the
> IBM PC published by Microsoft). The most compelling reason it wasn't the
> TRS-80 Model I, though, is that the original poster is writing about a
> magazine issue from the year 1970, nearly a decade before the TRS-80 Model I
> was made.
>
> I think it's great you've enjoyed computer flight simulation for so many
> years, but your memory has left you high and dry.
>
> Pete
>
>

[Peter Duniho]

"Peter Bjoern" > wrote in message
...
> I had the TRS-80 Model I which I got way back in 1979 and there was indeed
> a
> flight sim (FS1) for it which I also had.

I stand corrected. Can't believe I missed out on a flight sim for my
TRS-80.

Even so, the post to which I was replying was clearly off the mark in a
variety of other ways (especially the assertion that there was a TRS-80 plus
flight simulator in 1970).

[Kevin Darling]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message >...
> "Mad Scientist Jr" > wrote in message
> om...
> > if you dig up the nat. geographic magazine from 1970, there are color
> > pictures that show full color graphics of a runway - this is years
> > before color video games began to appear. what system was this???
> [...]
> Early flight simulators include the pneumatically powered Link instrument
> flight trainers, and visual trainers that used terrain models and a video
> camera that was moved along the modeled terrain according to pilot inputs.
>
> If I had to guess, I'd guess that the simulator depicted in the 1970
> National Geographic issue is one of the television-based simulators.

I think you're probably right. Or perhaps it could've been an Evans &
Sutherland prototype. I believe they were just getting started around
then.

Kevin

[Peter Bjoern]

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:43:42 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote in rec.aviation.simulators:

>Even so, the post to which I was replying was clearly off the mark in a
>variety of other ways (especially the assertion that there was a TRS-80 plus
>flight simulator in 1970).

Yes, I completely agree with that.
The TRS-80 Model I came out (I believe) in 1978, and there was no way
it could have been the one seen around 1970.

The one featured in National Geographics in 1970 must almost certainly have been
a professional type flight sim, if for no other reason than private persons did
not own computers in 1970.

Regards

Peter

[Carl Frisk]

I seem to remember the Z80 (Zilog) microprocessor coming out around 1976? 75? This was certainly before anything we
might call a 'home computer' ever hit the market.

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.net


"Peter Bjoern" > wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:43:42 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> > wrote in rec.aviation.simulators:
>
>>Even so, the post to which I was replying was clearly off the mark in a
>>variety of other ways (especially the assertion that there was a TRS-80 plus
>>flight simulator in 1970).
>
> Yes, I completely agree with that.
> The TRS-80 Model I came out (I believe) in 1978, and there was no way
> it could have been the one seen around 1970.
>
> The one featured in National Geographics in 1970 must almost certainly have been
> a professional type flight sim, if for no other reason than private persons did
> not own computers in 1970.
>
> Regards
>
> Peter
>

[Mad Scientist Jr]

Actually there were quite a few interesting graphics posted in that
Nat Geo issue, not just the flight sim. This was a year before even
Computer Space, 2 years before Magnavox Odyssey and Pong, 6 years
before Night Driver. Even earlier, there is a "computer graphics
timeline" online (search for it) that cites wireframe animation done
in 1963 for a TV ad (possibly by Bell Labs?). Also, I always wondered
what system they used for the "death star tapes" in Star Wars.

[Pål Næss]

Kevin Darling wrote:

>"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message >...

>> If I had to guess, I'd guess that the simulator depicted in the 1970
>> National Geographic issue is one of the television-based simulators.
>
>I think you're probably right. Or perhaps it could've been an Evans &
>Sutherland prototype. I believe they were just getting started around
>then.

General Electric

http://home.chello.no/~pal.nass/oldgeflightsim.jpg

I've "thumbed" through the whole article without finding any more
mention of it. Reading it is a strain on the eyes, I don't have the
paper copy, it's the entire NatGeo on CDs.

(it is the November 1970 issue, for those with a well-stocked library
nearby. Article is "Behold the computer revolution", by Peter T.
White.)

[FatKat]

That's no oil-well, that's the Sears Tower. It sounds exactly like the
stone-age version of MSFS. When I was in HS in the mid-80's I took two
semesters of computer-sciences, mostly learning BASIC on the school's
Apple II (they had a bunch of "Franlin Ace" sets as well. In a box of
5.25" floppies were two marked "Flight Simulator", but which I could
never get to work right - it would freeze on the opening screen.
Otherwise, it sounds exactly like what you describe. Even a year
later, when I moved up to a color version for my XT, buildings like the
Sears tower and the Empire State Building looked like oil towers or
something like that.