Engine throttle

[Bob Ingraham]

I'm a new X-Planer, and I've been having a lot of fun flying various
aircraft from Spitfires to 747's to and from Vancouver International
Airport. I'm now able to land more or less safely most of the time
(depending on the aircraft), but I often have trouble stopping the
aircraft after landing. Just now, after a perfect three-point landing
with my Spitfire, the brakes only slowed it, and I ended up turning
off the runway and crashing. How in heck to you cut the engine? Does
the same control work with all aircraft, or do you have to set it
separately for each aircraft?

Another question related to brakes is this: On all aircraft, when I
run the engine(s) up to full power, the aircraft starts sliding
forward even with the brakes on. That doesn't seem like a very
accurate simulation. Is there a way to control that?

Another question (I have lots of them, but I'll end with this one): I
can barely get the Concorde to lift off the runway. It's hard to
believe that the main runway at Vancouver isn't long enough. In fact,
an actual Concorde visited Vancouver during Expo '86 and must have
used that runway. Am I doing something wrong. There don't seem to be
any flaps or controls for flaps.

Bob Ingraham
Vancouver

[Greasy Rider]

On 22 Nov 2004 07:57:59 -0800, (Bob Ingraham)
proclaimed:

>Another question related to brakes is this: On all aircraft, when I
>run the engine(s) up to full power, the aircraft starts sliding
>forward even with the brakes on. That doesn't seem like a very
>accurate simulation. Is there a way to control that?

The F4J Phantom would roll the tires with locked brakes at full
throttle and afterburner. Yep, wheel - tire separation. That's
accurate.

Go in and edit your aircraft config file for better breaking results
but be gentle grasshopper.

[Arthur]

Although it's a crummy way to stop an airplane, you can cut the engines by
using CTRL-SHIFT-F1. This action cuts off the fuel supply.
Arthur

"Bob Ingraham" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm a new X-Planer, and I've been having a lot of fun flying various
> aircraft from Spitfires to 747's to and from Vancouver International
> Airport. I'm now able to land more or less safely most of the time
> (depending on the aircraft), but I often have trouble stopping the
> aircraft after landing. Just now, after a perfect three-point landing
> with my Spitfire, the brakes only slowed it, and I ended up turning
> off the runway and crashing. How in heck to you cut the engine? Does
> the same control work with all aircraft, or do you have to set it
> separately for each aircraft?
>
> Another question related to brakes is this: On all aircraft, when I
> run the engine(s) up to full power, the aircraft starts sliding
> forward even with the brakes on. That doesn't seem like a very
> accurate simulation. Is there a way to control that?
>
> Another question (I have lots of them, but I'll end with this one): I
> can barely get the Concorde to lift off the runway. It's hard to
> believe that the main runway at Vancouver isn't long enough. In fact,
> an actual Concorde visited Vancouver during Expo '86 and must have
> used that runway. Am I doing something wrong. There don't seem to be
> any flaps or controls for flaps.
>
> Bob Ingraham
> Vancouver

[Bob Ingraham]

> >Another question related to brakes is this: On all aircraft, when I
> >run the engine(s) up to full power, the aircraft starts sliding
> >forward even with the brakes on. That doesn't seem like a very
> >accurate simulation. Is there a way to control that?
>
<SNIP>
>
> Go in and edit your aircraft config file for better breaking results
> but be gentle grasshopper.

I would be gentle if I could find an "aircraft config" file, but I
have looked at every menu and sub-menu I can find in X-Plane v7, but
there's nothing resembling anything to do with brakes. Of course, I
can't say I begin to understand much of what I am looking at: clarity
of purpose is not one of X-Plane's strengths!

Bob

[rottenberg]

(Bob Ingraham) wrote in message >...
> I'm a new X-Planer, and I've been having a lot of fun flying various
> aircraft from Spitfires to 747's to and from Vancouver International
> Airport. I'm now able to land more or less safely most of the time
> (depending on the aircraft), but I often have trouble stopping the
> aircraft after landing. Just now, after a perfect three-point landing
> with my Spitfire, the brakes only slowed it, and I ended up turning
> off the runway and crashing. How in heck to you cut the engine? Does
> the same control work with all aircraft, or do you have to set it
> separately for each aircraft?

Returning space shuttles typically require long landing rolls, even
though they have essentially no engine at all. Depending on what
airplane your landing, approach speeds are obviously relevant. Ehat
approach speed do you use on that Spitfire.

> Another question related to brakes is this: On all aircraft, when I
> run the engine(s) up to full power, the aircraft starts sliding
> forward even with the brakes on. That doesn't seem like a very
> accurate simulation.

You know, this reminds me of this situation in which my ABS equipped
Explorer was skidding all over the road, even though I was practically
standing on my break pedal. All these angry drivers were yelling at
me - "that's not very realistic!!"

> Another question (I have lots of them, but I'll end with this one): I
> can barely get the Concorde to lift off the runway. It's hard to
> believe that the main runway at Vancouver isn't long enough. In fact,
> an actual Concorde visited Vancouver during Expo '86 and must have
> used that runway. Am I doing something wrong. There don't seem to be
> any flaps or controls for flaps.

Do tail-less deltas even have flaps? I know Concorde has none. Are
you sure you're using full thrust and no breaks. Also, what is your
take-off speed? Remember that Sacremento ice cream store disaster of
the early 1970's? Unstick speeds are critical for all airplanes, no
less so for a supercruiser like Concorde. I can't tell you if you're
doing anything wrong unless I know what it is that you're doing.
> Bob Ingraham
> Vancouver

[LnrdRosee]

Just a thought re your Concorde taking off are you using the afterburners as
well? I seem to remember hearing that the only way she got off the ground was
with full afterburners running.

hope this helps
Leonard Rosee
Australia

[Bob Ingraham]

(LnrdRosee) wrote in message >...

> Just a thought re your Concorde taking off are you using the afterburners as
> well? I seem to remember hearing that the only way she got off the ground was
> with full afterburners running.
>
> hope this helps
> Leonard Rosee
> Australia

So far, Leonard, I don't see any control or setting for afterburners.
But I'll take a closer look. Good idea, anyway.

Bob

[Bob Ingraham]

><snip> What approach speed do you use on that Spitfire.

I'm supposed to watch my speed in addition to altitude, attitude, yaw,
the horizon, and enjoy the scenery too? And then there's the question
of German's lurking about, waiting to pounce on me. But I guess they'd
probably have a hard time getting all the way to Vancouver.... ;^)
Any, I certainly wasn't going very fast. I'd throttled back to about
1/3 power, had full flaps, and the approach was from a low altitude,
not a power dive.

> > Another question (I have lots of them, but I'll end with this one): I
> > can barely get the Concorde to lift off the runway. It's hard to
> > believe that the main runway at Vancouver isn't long enough. In fact,
> > an actual Concorde visited Vancouver during Expo '86 and must have
> > used that runway. Am I doing something wrong. There don't seem to be
> > any flaps or controls for flaps.
>
> Do tail-less deltas even have flaps? I know Concorde has none. Are
> you sure you're using full thrust and no breaks. Also, what is your
> take-off speed? Remember that Sacremento ice cream store disaster of
> the early 1970's?

<snip> No, I don't recall the ice cream store disaster. What
happenened? I tried another takeoff and watched the speed dial. I was
at 250 knots, and still sticking firmly to the runway, and then the
mud flats, and then careering madly across Georgia Strait. X-Plane
disasters are pretty silly.

Bob

[rottenberg]

(Bob Ingraham) wrote in message >...
> ><snip> What approach speed do you use on that Spitfire.
>
> I'm supposed to watch my speed in addition to altitude, attitude, yaw,
> the horizon, and enjoy the scenery too? And then there's the question
> of German's lurking about, waiting to pounce on me. But I guess they'd
> probably have a hard time getting all the way to Vancouver.... ;^)
> Any, I certainly wasn't going very fast. I'd throttled back to about
> 1/3 power, had full flaps, and the approach was from a low altitude,
> not a power dive.
>
> > > Another question (I have lots of them, but I'll end with this one): I
> > > can barely get the Concorde to lift off the runway. It's hard to
> > > believe that the main runway at Vancouver isn't long enough. In fact,
> > > an actual Concorde visited Vancouver during Expo '86 and must have
> > > used that runway. Am I doing something wrong. There don't seem to be
> > > any flaps or controls for flaps.
> >
> > Do tail-less deltas even have flaps? I know Concorde has none. Are
> > you sure you're using full thrust and no breaks. Also, what is your
> > take-off speed? Remember that Sacremento ice cream store disaster of
> > the early 1970's?
>
> <snip> No, I don't recall the ice cream store disaster. What
> happenened?

In September of 1972, a Canadair Sabre was attemoting to depart an
airfield where it had sat for static display. The pilot, who
according to the innuendo I've heard had only about 3.5 hours total
time, was unable to get un-sticked, but aborted his take-off roll too
late. The ground-bound Sabre plowed through a barrier fence, crossed
a street, and careened into a crowded ice-cream parolor. About 20
people were killed, but the pilot was only injured.

[David CL Francis]

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 at 08:08:23 in message
>, Bob Ingraham
> wrote:
(LnrdRosee) wrote in message
>...
>
>> Just a thought re your Concorde taking off are you using the afterburners as
>> well? I seem to remember hearing that the only way she got off the ground was
>> with full afterburners running.
>>
>> hope this helps
>> Leonard Rosee
>> Australia
>
>So far, Leonard, I don't see any control or setting for afterburners.
>But I'll take a closer look. Good idea, anyway.
>
The Concorde has 'arm' switches for the afterburners. They are armed and
the throttles opened briskly to maximum, a take off check at 100knots is
that all 4 indicators show green for successful afterburners and full
power. Rotate takes several seconds. Fully loaded lift off at about 205
knots. Nose up to about 13.5 degrees and she should fly.

The afterburner switches are just behind the throttles on the central
console.
--
David CL Francis

[rottenberg]

(Bob Ingraham) wrote in message >...
> (LnrdRosee) wrote in message >...
>
> > Just a thought re your Concorde taking off are you using the afterburners as
> > well? I seem to remember hearing that the only way she got off the ground was
> > with full afterburners running.
> >
> > hope this helps
> > Leonard Rosee
> > Australia
>
> So far, Leonard, I don't see any control or setting for afterburners.
> But I'll take a closer look. Good idea, anyway.
>
> Bob
Does X-Plane even allow for afterburn? I'm guessing it does, but I
have no experience with X-Plane. [I'm sure it's a great title, but I
have to break this bad habit I hjave about getting great games I never
play.] What sort of instrumentation does X-Plane provide. You should
be able to "detect" afterburner by watching EGT - there should be a
noticeable spike there, to say nothing of fuel burn.

[DeltaDeltaDelta]

Bob: to your earlier post about some a/c starting rolling with brakes on:
well it's quite common on some types of a/c. The Reims Rocket, for example,
at full throttle will jump on ahead no matter how much brakes you apply.
During engine test, the only way we keep it from moving is to put massive
chocks and tie the whole thing down (and if possible, rev it at the lowest
speed possible for a successful test)... Types (strength) of brakes are
fitted in relation to the landing speed and a/c MTOW - i.e. in relation to
the kinetic energy and inertia the a/c has upon landing (simply speaking).
They are not in relation (at least not directly) to engine power. So, if
you, say, put a 250 HP engine into a Skyhawk, rev it up to max RPM and hold
the brakes, it'll start edging forward slowly.

Triple Delta

"Bob Ingraham" > wrote in message
om...
> ><snip> What approach speed do you use on that Spitfire.
>
> I'm supposed to watch my speed in addition to altitude, attitude, yaw,
> the horizon, and enjoy the scenery too? And then there's the question
> of German's lurking about, waiting to pounce on me. But I guess they'd
> probably have a hard time getting all the way to Vancouver.... ;^)
> Any, I certainly wasn't going very fast. I'd throttled back to about
> 1/3 power, had full flaps, and the approach was from a low altitude,
> not a power dive.
>
>> > Another question (I have lots of them, but I'll end with this one): I
>> > can barely get the Concorde to lift off the runway. It's hard to
>> > believe that the main runway at Vancouver isn't long enough. In fact,
>> > an actual Concorde visited Vancouver during Expo '86 and must have
>> > used that runway. Am I doing something wrong. There don't seem to be
>> > any flaps or controls for flaps.
>>
>> Do tail-less deltas even have flaps? I know Concorde has none. Are
>> you sure you're using full thrust and no breaks. Also, what is your
>> take-off speed? Remember that Sacremento ice cream store disaster of
>> the early 1970's?
>
> <snip> No, I don't recall the ice cream store disaster. What
> happenened? I tried another takeoff and watched the speed dial. I was
> at 250 knots, and still sticking firmly to the runway, and then the
> mud flats, and then careering madly across Georgia Strait. X-Plane
> disasters are pretty silly.
>
> Bob

[Les]

A large delta aircraft like Concorde needs no flaps as the large wing
area traps a cushion of air beneath it and the ground during landing.
Also the characturistic nose high attitude of deltas on landing not
only provides hi lift but hi drag too. Perhaps when you was taking off
in that Concord you allowed the nose to rise too high. Beleive it or
not correct technique for take off in most deltas was to lift the nose
wheel only a few feet from the runway and the aircraft would rise on
attaining correct airspeed.

[David CL Francis]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 at 14:28:29 in message
. com>, Les
> wrote:
>A large delta aircraft like Concorde needs no flaps as the large wing
>area traps a cushion of air beneath it and the ground during landing.
>Also the characturistic nose high attitude of deltas on landing not
>only provides hi lift but hi drag too. Perhaps when you was taking off
>in that Concord you allowed the nose to rise too high. Beleive it or
>not correct technique for take off in most deltas was to lift the nose
>wheel only a few feet from the runway and the aircraft would rise on
>attaining correct airspeed.
>
Abridged Concorde Take off from book 'Flying Concorde' by Brian Calvert
(Speeds only apply to the particular take off described).

Afterburners are armed, clocks are started and throttles advanced to
maximum.

At 100 knots four greens showing full engine power and afterburners are
confirmed. "Power checked"

Decision speed (V1) is 165 knots

At 192 knots 'Rotate'

A tug on the column to lift the nose then a smooth rotation to 13.5
degrees nose up. During that the Concorde leaves the ground at 205
knots. It is held at 13.5 degrees nose up.

V2 is confirmed at 221 knots. As the speed builds the nose is pulled up
to 18 degrees. Then usually the nose is pushed down to 12 degrees,
afterburners are cut and the throttles pulled back to a noise reducing
setting maintaining a speed of 250 knots.
--
David CL Francis