Ka6e vs Foka4

[Janos Bauer]

Is there anyone who has experience with both of these sailplanes? They
seems at the same price range but I don't know what would be the
difference during xc flights. What about the maintenance, handling and
any other issues?
Thanks for your advice!

/Janos

[John H. Campbell]

> Is there anyone who has experience with both of these sailplanes?

Yes! USA Sports Class National Champion Dave Stevenson, who has won
contests with both these 1960s ships in just the past few years.

[iPilot]

On the other hand, Foka gives significantly better performance.

L/D 34 vs 30



"goneill" > wrote in message ...
> The K6e is a gem of an aircraft,a little twitchy with its all flying tail
> but put your arm on your leg and fly with 2 fingers on the stick fixes that
> .
> They thermal well and run well for a wooden aircraft ,easy to rig and
> handle.
> On rigging you have to be careful to place the spar almost in position so
> as not to damage the wing root fairings and to make sure the retaining clips
> are all facing the correct way so as not to foul control rods etc .
> Maitenance is the same as any wood and fabric bird .
> "Janos Bauer" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > Is there anyone who has experience with both of these sailplanes? They
> > seems at the same price range but I don't know what would be the
> > difference during xc flights. What about the maintenance, handling and
> > any other issues?
> > Thanks for your advice!
> >
> > /Janos
> >
>
>

[Eric Greenwell]

In article >,
says...
> > Is there anyone who has experience with both of these sailplanes?
>
> Yes! USA Sports Class National Champion Dave Stevenson, who has won
> contests with both these 1960s ships in just the past few years.

I believe Dave still has one of each, so he might be good person to
talk to. Perhaps he'd be willing to sell one...

--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

[Mike Reyes]

The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
in a lightbulb.
:-)
"iPilot" > wrote in message >...
> On the other hand, Foka gives significantly better performance.
>
> L/D 34 vs 30
>
>
>
> "goneill" > wrote in message ...
> > The K6e is a gem of an aircraft,a little twitchy with its all flying tail
> > but put your arm on your leg and fly with 2 fingers on the stick fixes that
> > .
> > They thermal well and run well for a wooden aircraft ,easy to rig and
> > handle.
> > On rigging you have to be careful to place the spar almost in position so
> > as not to damage the wing root fairings and to make sure the retaining clips
> > are all facing the correct way so as not to foul control rods etc .
> > Maitenance is the same as any wood and fabric bird .
> > "Janos Bauer" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > >
> > > Is there anyone who has experience with both of these sailplanes? They
> > > seems at the same price range but I don't know what would be the
> > > difference during xc flights. What about the maintenance, handling and
> > > any other issues?
> > > Thanks for your advice!
> > >
> > > /Janos
> > >
> >
> >

[Janusz Kesik]

I've heard he had bought a Cobra. :)
Built by the same guys who had tried to screw in a lightbulb (and I wonder why does that ship scored
second in WGC 1970 at Marfa).

Regards,


--
Janusz Kêsik


> I believe Dave still has one of each, so he might be good person to
> talk to. Perhaps he'd be willing to sell one...

[Janusz Kesik]

Very funny. Have you ever met any Pole more than a dishwasher in your nearest fastfood bar?

Try to race with a Foka in a Ka-6 and you'll see who should have learned how to screw in a
lightbulb. I suggest you to check what was the only standard class glider which won the open class
in the World Gliding Championships. (HINT: it was built by the guys who must learn how to screw in a
lightbulb).

No regards,

--
Janusz Kesik
POLAND

visit www.leszno.pl - home of WGC 2003



U¿ytkownik Mike Reyes > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych
e.com...
> The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
> Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
> in a lightbulb.
> :-)

[Keith W]

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message
...
.. (HINT: it was built by the guys who must learn how to screw in a
> lightbulb).
>
The alternative is a bit of lateral thinking and make the lightbulbs with a
bayonet fitting so that they don't need to be screwed in (as in UK) 8-)

Keith

[Simon Waddell]

See George Moffatt's "Winning on the Wind" for a more considered
comparison - no references to lightbulbs

"Janos Bauer" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Is there anyone who has experience with both of these sailplanes? They
> seems at the same price range but I don't know what would be the
> difference during xc flights. What about the maintenance, handling and
> any other issues?
> Thanks for your advice!
>
> /Janos
>

[Mike Reyes]

Just a light joke, had to stick up for my Ka-6.
I actually contacted a couple of guys in my glider club to let them
know about Dave Stephenson's glider being up for sale for such a
bargain.

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> Very funny. Have you ever met any Pole more than a dishwasher in your nearest fastfood bar?
>
> Try to race with a Foka in a Ka-6 and you'll see who should have learned how to screw in a
> lightbulb. I suggest you to check what was the only standard class glider which won the open class
> in the World Gliding Championships. (HINT: it was built by the guys who must learn how to screw in a
> lightbulb).
>
> No regards,
>
> --
> Janusz Kesik
> POLAND
>
> visit www.leszno.pl - home of WGC 2003
>
>
>
> U¿ytkownik Mike Reyes > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych
> e.com...
> > The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
> > Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
> > in a lightbulb.
> > :-)

[Mike Reyes]

Just a light joke, had to stick up for my Ka-6.
I actually contacted a couple of guys in my glider club to let them
know about Dave Stephenson's glider being up for sale for such a
bargain.

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> Very funny. Have you ever met any Pole more than a dishwasher in your nearest fastfood bar?
>
> Try to race with a Foka in a Ka-6 and you'll see who should have learned how to screw in a
> lightbulb. I suggest you to check what was the only standard class glider which won the open class
> in the World Gliding Championships. (HINT: it was built by the guys who must learn how to screw in a
> lightbulb).
>
> No regards,
>
> --
> Janusz Kesik
> POLAND
>
> visit www.leszno.pl - home of WGC 2003
>
>
>
> U¿ytkownik Mike Reyes > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych
> e.com...
> > The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
> > Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
> > in a lightbulb.
> > :-)

[Mike Reyes]

Sorry if I offended. Just an attempt at some light brevity , and
sticking up for my glider type. The Foka's are iindeed impressive
enough that I let several members at my club know about one for sale
in the US.

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> Very funny. Have you ever met any Pole more than a dishwasher in your nearest fastfood bar?
>
> Try to race with a Foka in a Ka-6 and you'll see who should have learned how to screw in a
> lightbulb. I suggest you to check what was the only standard class glider which won the open class
> in the World Gliding Championships. (HINT: it was built by the guys who must learn how to screw in a
> lightbulb).
>
> No regards,
>
> --
> Janusz Kesik
> POLAND
>
> visit www.leszno.pl - home of WGC 2003
>
>
>
> U¿ytkownik Mike Reyes > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych
> e.com...
> > The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
> > Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
> > in a lightbulb.
> > :-)

[Mike Reyes]

Whoops! Levity not brevity, and yes, I've fumbled with a few lightbulbs myself.

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> Very funny. Have you ever met any Pole more than a dishwasher in your nearest fastfood bar?
>
> Try to race with a Foka in a Ka-6 and you'll see who should have learned how to screw in a
> lightbulb. I suggest you to check what was the only standard class glider which won the open class
> in the World Gliding Championships. (HINT: it was built by the guys who must learn how to screw in a
> lightbulb).
>
> No regards,
>
> --
> Janusz Kesik
> POLAND
>
> visit www.leszno.pl - home of WGC 2003
>
>
>
> U¿ytkownik Mike Reyes > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych
> e.com...
> > The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
> > Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
> > in a lightbulb.
> > :-)

[Mike Reyes]

Whoops! Levity not brevity, and yes, I've fumbled with a few lightbulbs myself.

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> Very funny. Have you ever met any Pole more than a dishwasher in your nearest fastfood bar?
>
> Try to race with a Foka in a Ka-6 and you'll see who should have learned how to screw in a
> lightbulb. I suggest you to check what was the only standard class glider which won the open class
> in the World Gliding Championships. (HINT: it was built by the guys who must learn how to screw in a
> lightbulb).
>
> No regards,
>
> --
> Janusz Kesik
> POLAND
>
> visit www.leszno.pl - home of WGC 2003
>
>
>
> U¿ytkownik Mike Reyes > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych
> e.com...
> > The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
> > Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
> > in a lightbulb.
> > :-)

[Paul]

I guess the orginal question may have already been answered but here goes.

Ka6e. you sit upright, rudder is adjustable. Seatback is not. Canopy is not
hinged and is removable. Light and responsive handling. Climbs on the whiff
of a thermal. Nice and simple to rig. Light wings
Foka 4 Main wheel aft of C of G. Nose sits on a long skid. Long canopy that
slids forward. you lie down in it. Rudder doesn't adjust. Seatback does.
Real tight fit if broad shouldered. Excellent handling. Needs a bit more
than a whiff of a thermal to keep it up. Fully aerobatic if you are that way
inclined. More complicated to rig. Wings are heavier. A real weapon in the
hands of an aggressive pilot.

The choice would depend on where you fly. If you operate of seal/ gravel
strips. I would stay away from the Foka as the skid would wear out and need
replacing often. If the conditions you fly in are weak most of the time then
the Ka 6e would be better. The most important. Try each on for size. Both
are very different cockpits.
Paul

[Richard Brisbourne]

On 11 Jul 2003 20:12:28 -0700, (Mike Reyes) wrote:

>The Ka-6e has a TRUE 33/1 L/D and was built by German artisans, the
>Foka was built by a half dozen guys trying to figure out how to screw
>in a lightbulb.
>:-)
>"iPilot" > wrote in message >...
>> On the other hand, Foka gives significantly better performance.
>>
>> L/D 34 vs 30
>>
>>
But (why do we keep having to say this?), who flies at best L/D
anyway?

I'd take the Ka6E in a temperate climate, the Foka for strong
conditions.

I know the Foka 4s did well in the World's in the UK in 1965, but:
1. They were brilliantly flown
2. The Ka6E didn't exist yet.
--
"Curmudgeonly is the new cool" (Terry Wogan)
(The real name at the left of the e-mail address is richard)

[[email protected]]

Janos - They are both wonderful sailplanes - it comes down to personal
preference. Performance wise, the Foka is probably 5 to 10 kmh faster
in cruise (which is not significant in overall xc speed), and even
faster above 130. They both climb well in weak conditions with an edge
to the "E" with it's lighter wing loading and "feel" for the air. The
Foka enjoys a steep bank angle. They both have legendary handling
characteristics - Foka has a solid/steady feel with firm ailerons, the
Ka-6E a lighter, more agile feel. I prefer the reclined seating of the
Foka - confortable on long flights but a narrow cockpit (I wear a
bandage on my flying arm to protect from rubbing). Both have excellent
airbrakes for short field landings. I prefer the sliding canopy of the
Foka as it stays attached to the aircraft. The off-center CG tow
release on the "E" can make for an interesting take-off if the wing
runner isn't attentive! My experience on assembly is - take the K6.
The Foka wings are heavier and the main pin (at least on my ship) is
always a problem. Either way, you won't be disappointed.

David

[Janusz Kesik]

OK, no problem if not repeated. Just my "Polish joke" alarm went off.
Just keep in mind for the future that Your postings may be offensive for =
some people, especially for those who have problems with keeping the =
distance from that kind of opinions.



U=BFytkownik Mike Reyes > w wiadomooci do grup =
dyskusyjnych le.com...
> Sorry if I offended. Just an attempt at some light brevity , and
> sticking up for my glider type. The Foka's are iindeed impressive
> enough that I let several members at my club know about one for sale
> in the US.

[Frank Dobbs]

Personally, I fly a Zugvogel IIIa.

This has very similar performance, with the extra L/D of the Foka. It
doesn't drop a wing on takeoff ground run like the K6e. It has loads
of room in the cockpit (I can barely fit into a K6e being 6 foot 2 and
a half inches tall).

Happy non-glass flying!

Frank Dobbs

wrote in message >...
> Janos - They are both wonderful sailplanes - it comes down to personal
> preference. Performance wise, the Foka is probably 5 to 10 kmh faster
> in cruise (which is not significant in overall xc speed), and even
> faster above 130. They both climb well in weak conditions with an edge
> to the "E" with it's lighter wing loading and "feel" for the air. The
> Foka enjoys a steep bank angle. They both have legendary handling
> characteristics - Foka has a solid/steady feel with firm ailerons, the
> Ka-6E a lighter, more agile feel. I prefer the reclined seating of the
> Foka - confortable on long flights but a narrow cockpit (I wear a
> bandage on my flying arm to protect from rubbing). Both have excellent
> airbrakes for short field landings. I prefer the sliding canopy of the
> Foka as it stays attached to the aircraft. The off-center CG tow
> release on the "E" can make for an interesting take-off if the wing
> runner isn't attentive! My experience on assembly is - take the K6.
> The Foka wings are heavier and the main pin (at least on my ship) is
> always a problem. Either way, you won't be disappointed.
>
> David

[Bob Gibbons]

Ships like the K-6e are an excellent first ship for any new pilot.
Just to make sure they do not get the wrong idea from Frank's
comments, I will say that in my 5 years and 600 hrs of flying my K-6e,
I NEVER experienced a wing drop.

Frank may be referring to the right swinging tendency caused by the
left low CG tow hook. This is an entirely different issue from a wing
drop and is easily handled by having the wing runner hold back
appropriately on the left side wing for the first few feet of the
takeoff run.

Bob

On 23 Jul 2003 04:35:37 -0700, (Frank Dobbs)
wrote:

>Personally, I fly a Zugvogel IIIa.
>
>This has very similar performance, with the extra L/D of the Foka. It
>doesn't drop a wing on takeoff ground run like the K6e. It has loads
>of room in the cockpit (I can barely fit into a K6e being 6 foot 2 and
>a half inches tall).
>