WTB Grob 109 b

[Steve B]

my email address is
I am looking for a Grob motor glider. Thanks

[BTIZ]

Why?

I only ask, because I hope you are not in a desert high density altitude
environment.

We had a G109B at our home field, it was worthless in the summer..

BT

"Steve B" > wrote in message
om...
> my email address is
> I am looking for a Grob motor glider. Thanks

[Steve B]

I am at sea level / Kona Hawaii... I am looking for a way to do some
casual soaring with out aero tow. There are no airfields suitable to
tow or winch. I would like to find a way to do some flying with my
better half so I am looking for a 2 place ship. I have a hangar at
the airport but I am not sure I would want to do a lot of taxing
dragging a wing tip to get out to the runway. I realize the
performance of the 109 b would be very mediocre but it seems like a
way to get a thermal fix with the ability to carry an additional
passenger.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the motor glider as I have never
flown one. I was not aware of an issue with density altitude. Just
want to crank and bank in some lift!

Any recommendations would be welcome.

Steve




BTIZ" > wrote in message news:<44IRa.8354$Je.567@fed1read04>...
> Why?
>
> I only ask, because I hope you are not in a desert high density altitude
> environment.
>
> We had a G109B at our home field, it was worthless in the summer..
>
> BT
>
> "Steve B" > wrote in message
> om...
> > my email address is
> > I am looking for a Grob motor glider. Thanks

[Stefan]

Steve B wrote:
>
> I am at sea level / Kona Hawaii... I am looking for a way to do some
> casual soaring with out aero tow.

If soaring is your goal, then you won't be happy with the G109. What
you're looking at is a true motorized glider, such as DG 505, DG 1000 or
the like.

Stefan

[BTIZ]

they have modified the proposal on the DG1000 to be a sustainer engine only,
and not capable of self launch, at least that's what I think I read.

A G109 is a poor performer for soaring, the gear is set so you will not drag
tips like you would on a DG500/505. But the -109 is workable at sea level
(non high DA) areas in Hawaii.

Another possibility would be the Grob 103 TwinIIIC, or one of those models
does have self launch capability.

Another good possibility for the buck$$ is the Stemme.
Or possibly the ximango http://www.ximangousa.com/

happy hunting
BT

"Stefan" <"stefan"@mus. INVALID .ch> wrote in message
...
> Steve B wrote:
> >
> > I am at sea level / Kona Hawaii... I am looking for a way to do some
> > casual soaring with out aero tow.
>
> If soaring is your goal, then you won't be happy with the G109. What
> you're looking at is a true motorized glider, such as DG 505, DG 1000 or
> the like.
>
> Stefan

[Mark James Boyd]

I don't know how you feel about partnerships, but I've found that
I can get a whole lot more boat/plane/glider in a partnership,
and this has worked out very, very well for me. The initial
capital outlay, the regular payments for tie down/slip/
maintenance, and the management needed to take care of
the boat/plane/glider would just be overwhelming for me
otherwise.

In the boat I have a 2-way, in the plane a 4-way, and in the
glider a lease + 6-way. In each case there have been no
scheduling conflicts whatsoever.

Neither me nor my partners use any of these things more than
once a week, for the most part, so it seems to be a great
way to share a lightly-used, but expensive, resource.

Of course results vary, and I am lucky that I enjoy the
company of the partners as much as the equipment, so this
is great, and all the details are well spelled out in writing
so there is no doubt about what happens if payments are late
or an accident occurs.

Anyway, it's worked for me. Perhaps it is something that
could get you more glider for your money?

[Steve B]

I like that idea... I agree with the idea of sharing the cost, it
makes a lot of sense with something that is used as unfrequently as a
recreational toy.

I will see if there is some interest with my flying buddies!


(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message >...
> I don't know how you feel about partnerships, but I've found that
> I can get a whole lot more boat/plane/glider in a partnership,
> and this has worked out very, very well for me. The initial
> capital outlay, the regular payments for tie down/slip/
> maintenance, and the management needed to take care of
> the boat/plane/glider would just be overwhelming for me
> otherwise.
>
> In the boat I have a 2-way, in the plane a 4-way, and in the
> glider a lease + 6-way. In each case there have been no
> scheduling conflicts whatsoever.
>
> Neither me nor my partners use any of these things more than
> once a week, for the most part, so it seems to be a great
> way to share a lightly-used, but expensive, resource.
>
> Of course results vary, and I am lucky that I enjoy the
> company of the partners as much as the equipment, so this
> is great, and all the details are well spelled out in writing
> so there is no doubt about what happens if payments are late
> or an accident occurs.
>
> Anyway, it's worked for me. Perhaps it is something that
> could get you more glider for your money?

[F.L. Whiteley]

Indeed, in my mind it is preferred. I've owned more gliders in
syndicates/partnerships than solely and have been very happy with the
arrangements in all cases. One partner wanted to buy a glider that was a
bit above my price range at the time, so he even underwrote my note on my
half, a gesture for which I'll always be grateful. Furthermore, he bought
out my share when the USAF decided I should move, an equally important and
unexpected benefit.

Frank Whiteley

"Steve B" > wrote in message
m...
> I like that idea... I agree with the idea of sharing the cost, it
> makes a lot of sense with something that is used as unfrequently as a
> recreational toy.
>
> I will see if there is some interest with my flying buddies!
>
>
> (Mark James Boyd) wrote in message
>...
> > I don't know how you feel about partnerships, but I've found that
> > I can get a whole lot more boat/plane/glider in a partnership,
> > and this has worked out very, very well for me. The initial
> > capital outlay, the regular payments for tie down/slip/
> > maintenance, and the management needed to take care of
> > the boat/plane/glider would just be overwhelming for me
> > otherwise.
> >
> > In the boat I have a 2-way, in the plane a 4-way, and in the
> > glider a lease + 6-way. In each case there have been no
> > scheduling conflicts whatsoever.
> >
> > Neither me nor my partners use any of these things more than
> > once a week, for the most part, so it seems to be a great
> > way to share a lightly-used, but expensive, resource.
> >
> > Of course results vary, and I am lucky that I enjoy the
> > company of the partners as much as the equipment, so this
> > is great, and all the details are well spelled out in writing
> > so there is no doubt about what happens if payments are late
> > or an accident occurs.
> >
> > Anyway, it's worked for me. Perhaps it is something that
> > could get you more glider for your money?

[Jim Pike]

Having owned a 109b since '85 and having flown the Stemme and the Taifun,
I'm quite happy with my b.

Performance isn't everything! I've just flown my 109b from the Toronto area
to the EAA fly-in at Arlington WA and back with my 14 year old daughter,
luggage, camping gear and 100 litres of fuel at altitudes up to 11500'. A
Stemme would barely carry a lunch box and is not as pleasant to fly,
although it does have that incredible L/D. In fact, flying the Stemme cured
me of Stemme lust and made me more satisfied with the Grob! I love soaring
and even did some over the Rockies on this trip. I fly thermals frequently
in weak Ontario conditions.

The Taifun is quite comparable to the 109b in performance, but much more
complex with it's retractable tricycle gear and flaps. I loved it's sliding
canopy and fighter-like looks, but opted for simplicity with my 109b and
have never regretted it.

The Ximango (ex Fournier) looks to be a good ship but also more complex than
the Grob.

The Sinus looks like it would fit in the new Sport Aircraft category and
seems to compare favourably.

Good luck in whatever choice you make.

P.S. I also fly the ultimate motorglider, the B767 8>)

Jim



"Stewart Kissel" > wrote in
message ...
> Is a Grob 109 a 500K machine? Of course not. Will it thermal adequately=
> for the conditions you will fly in? I don't see why not. And last time=
> I checked, soaring cross country in Hawaii was limited to the size of th=
> e islands. So I suppose you could spend $100k+ on a "true" soaring machi=
> ne, but I think you are on the right track for what your needs are.
>
>
>
>

[John Morgan]

"Jim Pike" > wrote in message
e.rogers.com...
> Having owned a 109b since '85 and having flown the Stemme and the Taifun,
> I'm quite happy with my b.
>
> Performance isn't everything! I've just flown my 109b from the Toronto
area
> to the EAA fly-in at Arlington WA and back with my 14 year old daughter,
> luggage, camping gear and 100 litres of fuel at altitudes up to 11500'. A
> Stemme would barely carry a lunch box and is not as pleasant to fly,


Huh??? I started my glider training and soloed in a Grob 109b, then finished
the rating in an ASK21. I now have a Stemme and an ASH26e. Most of my glider
time is in the Stemme, about 450 hours. There is no way I agree with you!!
The Stemme, while certainly not as nimble as the 26e, is still a pleasure to
fly. In terms of performance, when considering both operation under power
and gliding, it pretty much blows the socks off all else out there.

--
bumper >
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
to reply, the last half is right to left




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[Bud Mears]

Are you sure that it was a Grob 109b and not a Grob 109a model that you are
referring to? The "a" model has a lower power engine and a thicker wing
airfoil which does not climb as well as the "b" model. I live in Minden, NV
and own a Grob 109b model. The density altitude runs 7500 feet most of the
summer. The Grob 109b climbs 300 to 400 fpm with full fuel and two aboard.
In addition I usually work thermals during climbout to speed things up until
engine shutdown.
Bud Mears 51
Remove "SUPER" to reply direct to sender


"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:44IRa.8354$Je.567@fed1read04...
> Why?
>
> I only ask, because I hope you are not in a desert high density altitude
> environment.
>
> We had a G109B at our home field, it was worthless in the summer..
>
> BT
>
> "Steve B" > wrote in message
> om...
> > my email address is
> > I am looking for a Grob motor glider. Thanks
>
>