Re: Train in USA or Europe??

[Shirley]

mosquito mos wrote:

>I was looking for places in Arizona but they
>don't seem to offer much instruction.

You can't be serious! Estrella Sailport (aka Arizona Soaring), located in
Maricopa County (almost halfway between Phoenix and Tucson), is well-known for
its level of instruction and availability of aircraft. There is also Turf
Soaring (located in Carefree, AZ, closer to and north of Phoenix).

--Shirley






>><BR><BR>

[Adonis Amore]

Hi mosquito,
come to germany. OERLINGHAUSEN is the best way to get into it again!
The thermal conditions are perfect there. The flying school is open all
over the week till october. But I don't recommend you to come till the
end of august, because of holiday (to much people).

I've done my hole pilotlicense there. Not just because of the wonderfull
area and conditions, mainly because of the possibility to learn very
quick. There are enough teachers and modern planes (5*ASK21, 3*ASK23,
4*LS4, ...)

Just take a look at:
http://www.segelflugschule-oerlinghausen.de/fr_index.html.
The page is in german, but everyone there speaks english.
Tel. 0049 - 52 02 9 96 90

From time to time there are people from GB there, because of the
thermal conditions.

Bey, Adonis

mosquito wrote following on/ schrieb folgendes am 19.07.2003 15:42:

> I learned to fly in the UK, but haven't flown for 5 years or so.
> I'm (was) solo, with approx 40 hrs - mainly local thermal soaring
> within gliding range of my home field.
>
> This was all on ASK-13's. I think in the US most clubs use
> glass gliders.
>
> Anyway, I want to get current again, and I'm looking to take an
> intensive refresher course to get back to solo. Could you recommend
> any facilities/clubs in either Europe or the US that offer training.
>
> I was looking for places in Arizona but they don't seem to offer
> much instruction. A place in N. California at Hollister looks good
> but that's a long way from the UK.
>
> Spain or France perhaps? Comments welcome.
>
>

[Gerritjan]

> Anyway, I want to get current again, and I'm looking to take an
> intensive refresher course to get back to solo. Could you recommend
> any facilities/clubs in either Europe or the US that offer training.

Why go to the US when there's lots of places in Europe ?

[John H. Campbell]

>This was all on ASK-13's. I think in the US most clubs use
>glass gliders.

Heh, heh, heh. Mostly metal, actually. L-23s and 2-33s lead the fleet.
Besides, USA is almost exactly 1/2 "clubs" (pay less, work more) and 1/2
"operators" (pay more, fly more), kind of like public/private schools (or is
that private/public?). You have the choice. Other things you should know
about the USA are that FAA training is mostly gliding vs. soaring, launching
is mostly aerotow, and airfields & airspace are not too crowded. Oh, and
the soaring is fantastic, given 3,000 x 1,500 miles to search through.

>I was looking for places in Arizona but they don't seem to offer
>much instruction.

Does this cinch this message as a put-on? Every month, Arizona Soaring (SW
of Phoenix) and Turf Soaring (NW of Phoenix) vy for student pilot attention
with adjacent full-page Ads in SOARING magazine. Not to mention Tucson
Soaring Club and other active outfits.

>A place in N. California at Hollister looks good
>but that's a long way from the UK.


Once you've crossed the Atlantic, is there that much difference? (tickets to
L.A. are cheaper than to Phoenix). You can do a week's intensive course
anywhere from Bermuda High near Kitty Hawk to Mile High Gliding in the
Rockies to Sky Sailing by San Diego (... dozens more).

[tango4]

Anywhere but the UK! It has been a particularly bad season here weatherwise.

Ian


"mosquito" > wrote in message
...
> I learned to fly in the UK, but haven't flown for 5 years or so.
> I'm (was) solo, with approx 40 hrs - mainly local thermal soaring
> within gliding range of my home field.
>
> This was all on ASK-13's. I think in the US most clubs use
> glass gliders.
>
> Anyway, I want to get current again, and I'm looking to take an
> intensive refresher course to get back to solo. Could you recommend
> any facilities/clubs in either Europe or the US that offer training.
>
> I was looking for places in Arizona but they don't seem to offer
> much instruction. A place in N. California at Hollister looks good
> but that's a long way from the UK.
>
> Spain or France perhaps? Comments welcome.
>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/ct_abruptclimate.htm ?

Don't wish to be an alarmist, but NE US and UK and the Euro Continent will
be among the first to know if this is the trend.

"tango4" > wrote in message
...
> Anywhere but the UK! It has been a particularly bad season here
weatherwise.
>
> Ian
>
>
> "mosquito" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I learned to fly in the UK, but haven't flown for 5 years or so.
> > I'm (was) solo, with approx 40 hrs - mainly local thermal soaring
> > within gliding range of my home field.
> >
> > This was all on ASK-13's. I think in the US most clubs use
> > glass gliders.
> >
> > Anyway, I want to get current again, and I'm looking to take an
> > intensive refresher course to get back to solo. Could you recommend
> > any facilities/clubs in either Europe or the US that offer training.
> >
> > I was looking for places in Arizona but they don't seem to offer
> > much instruction. A place in N. California at Hollister looks good
> > but that's a long way from the UK.
> >
> > Spain or France perhaps? Comments welcome.
> >
> >
>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

I also recall some wet years in the UK, following the Mt St Helens and Mt
Pinatubo eruptions. This time around, I don't seem to recall any massive
eruptions filling the atmosphere with dust in the northern hemisphere.

Frank Whiteley

"F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/ct_abruptclimate.htm ?
>
> Don't wish to be an alarmist, but NE US and UK and the Euro Continent will
> be among the first to know if this is the trend.
>
> "tango4" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Anywhere but the UK! It has been a particularly bad season here
> weatherwise.
> >
> > Ian
> >
> >
> > "mosquito" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I learned to fly in the UK, but haven't flown for 5 years or so.
> > > I'm (was) solo, with approx 40 hrs - mainly local thermal soaring
> > > within gliding range of my home field.
> > >
> > > This was all on ASK-13's. I think in the US most clubs use
> > > glass gliders.
> > >
> > > Anyway, I want to get current again, and I'm looking to take an
> > > intensive refresher course to get back to solo. Could you recommend
> > > any facilities/clubs in either Europe or the US that offer training.
> > >
> > > I was looking for places in Arizona but they don't seem to offer
> > > much instruction. A place in N. California at Hollister looks good
> > > but that's a long way from the UK.
> > >
> > > Spain or France perhaps? Comments welcome.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

"mosquito" > wrote in message
...
> >Other things you should know about the USA are that FAA
> >training is mostly gliding vs. soaring
>
> Gliding vs Soaring?
>
Yes, some places will teach you to tow, maneuver, land, and little else. My
experience with UK training was that we soared at every opportunity and that
each soaring flight had a tow and landing built in. You can't say that
about training that concentrates largely on tows and landings and filling
PTS squares. You must choose wisely. You can solo in the US on a student
ticket, but will have to complete a training syllabus. If cost is not a
real object, it can be done quite handily. You might also consider Texas,
Colorado, and New Mexico. Like California, Arizona, and Nevada, these
places have big air and powerful conditions. The farther east and north,
the more UK-like things become.

> >Does this cinch this message as a put-on?
>
> It was a simple request for info.
>
Very anonymously posted. Have you been put off by the BGA for some reason?
Typically there are fewer hoops to jump through there. I speak from
experience, having been trained in a BGA club. US training requires far
more paperwork and knowledge of air regulations.

mosquito, elegant bomber and sailplane, also irritating pest and disease
carrier (We have west nile virus in horses again this year locally)

If you were solo before, you should be able to regain this in 3-10 flights.
You are never far from a club in the UK and some of the big clubs operate
daily much of the year, so intensive training is quite available.

> >Once you've crossed the Atlantic, is there that much difference?
>
> Yes. About six hours coast to coast.
>
The time and distance has little to do with airfares and the time is minimal
on a non-stop flight. One may get to Denver more cheaply than some east
coast locations at times. We fly year round here, when the air fares may be
heavily discounted.

> And thanks for the enlightenment.
>
If it's the weather, well.....we've just come through a record heat spell
with daily 100-110F temperatures. (Even hotter in AZ). Pretty intense until
about 4000agl, very nice at 17000msl;^)

[tango4]

The weather has been so marginal that I'm going to buy a boat! If I can't
fly I might as well go sailing.

Ian


"mosquito" > wrote in message
...
> >Anywhere but the UK! It has been a particularly bad season here
weatherwise.
>
> Too true. The UK is always a pot-luck prospect, when your activity is
weather
> critical. A soaring friend of mine who's learning to Paraglide, has been
> grounded for a couple of weeks due to unfavourable weather. That's the
main
> reason I'm giving serious consideration to the western USA.
>
> Many of the US clubs I assumed didn't offer instruction, do. The German
club looks
> good, but doesn't have an English version.
>
> Thanks.
>

[Adonis Amore]

Hey Mosquito,

> Many of the US clubs I assumed didn't offer instruction, do. The
German club looks
> good, but doesn't have an English version.

you're right, but I gave you the Phonenr. of Oerlinghausen. Just make a
call!

Adonis

mosquito wrote following on/ schrieb folgendes am 21.07.2003 01:55:
>>Anywhere but the UK! It has been a particularly bad season here weatherwise.
>
>
> Too true. The UK is always a pot-luck prospect, when your activity is weather
> critical. A soaring friend of mine who's learning to Paraglide, has been
> grounded for a couple of weeks due to unfavourable weather. That's the main
> reason I'm giving serious consideration to the western USA.
>
> Many of the US clubs I assumed didn't offer instruction, do. The German club looks
> good, but doesn't have an English version.
>
> Thanks.
>

[Bruce Greeff]

If you want to be SURE of good flying weather there are a few places you
can go. If you have a family who also want a holiday, few can compare
with the cost, scenery, and family options available in South Africa.

You can go to commercial operations like Soaring-Safaris in
Bloemfontein, or the more hard core Gariep Dam aviation at Gariep.
There are also options at a couple of the larger clubs that are a lot
more affordable. These clubs have international members who come here
for the flying.

Look at www.SSSA.org.za for more information.

Choose your poison, but it may spoil UK soaring for you forever. Sunday
was good for 4:20 - in mid-winter. Oh, and I was flying with a short
sleeve cotton shirt.

[Bruce Greeff]

Hey Ian

Come visit me - I'll even let you fly my Cirrus a bit...
Last three flights 4:05, 3:15, 4:20 - Mid-winter - Africa is tough.

tango4 wrote:

> The weather has been so marginal that I'm going to buy a boat! If I can't
> fly I might as well go sailing.
>
> Ian
>
>
> "mosquito" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>Anywhere but the UK! It has been a particularly bad season here
>
> weatherwise.
>
>>Too true. The UK is always a pot-luck prospect, when your activity is
>
> weather
>
>>critical. A soaring friend of mine who's learning to Paraglide, has been
>>grounded for a couple of weeks due to unfavourable weather. That's the
>
> main
>
>>reason I'm giving serious consideration to the western USA.
>>
>>Many of the US clubs I assumed didn't offer instruction, do. The German
>
> club looks
>
>>good, but doesn't have an English version.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>
>
>

[Owain Walters]

I must be living in a different UK to you guys. This
year has been pretty good really.

Owain



At 10:42 21 July 2003, Bruce Greeff wrote:
>Hey Ian
>
>Come visit me - I'll even let you fly my Cirrus a bit...
>Last three flights 4:05, 3:15, 4:20 - Mid-winter -
>Africa is tough.
>
>tango4 wrote:
>
>> The weather has been so marginal that I'm going to
>>buy a boat! If I can't
>> fly I might as well go sailing.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> 'mosquito' wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>>Anywhere but the UK! It has been a particularly bad
>>>>season here
>>
>> weatherwise.
>>
>>>Too true. The UK is always a pot-luck prospect, when
>>>your activity is
>>
>> weather
>>
>>>critical. A soaring friend of mine who's learning to
>>>Paraglide, has been
>>>grounded for a couple of weeks due to unfavourable
>>>weather. That's the
>>
>> main
>>
>>>reason I'm giving serious consideration to the western
>>>USA.
>>>
>>>Many of the US clubs I assumed didn't offer instruction,
>>>do. The German
>>
>> club looks
>>
>>>good, but doesn't have an English version.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Martin Gregorie]

On 21 Jul 2003 11:54:17 GMT, Owain Walters
> wrote:

>
>I must be living in a different UK to you guys. This
>year has been pretty good really.
>
Speaking entirely from my experiences, May was excellent and I thought
it was the start of a great year, but the last two months have been
pretty dire. OK for local soaring, I suppose, but nothing I could do a
significant xc in.

Maybe I should just practise harder :-(


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Owain Walters]

As a past team-mate used to say, who is now a new World
Champion, 'Go Hard or Go Home'. ;-)

Seriously, I think this has been the best year so far
for about 5 years. We may not have had great weather
every weekend but rarely been completly washed out
and have managed to dredge something out of the day.

But none of this mock banter answers this blokes question.
If you want a holiday in the sun then go somewhere
overseas. If you want good quality and relevant instruction
stay here (I am not saying the quality is worse anywhere
else but I doubt its higher enough to make a long trip
worthwhile).

If you are already a glider pilot then it wont take
long before you are let loose on yourself anyway.

Owain







At 15:00 21 July 2003, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>On 21 Jul 2003 11:54:17 GMT, Owain Walters
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I must be living in a different UK to you guys. This
>>year has been pretty good really.
>>
>Speaking entirely from my experiences, May was excellent
>and I thought
>it was the start of a great year, but the last two
>months have been
>pretty dire. OK for local soaring, I suppose, but nothing
>I could do a
>significant xc in.
>
>Maybe I should just practise harder :-(
>
>
>--
>martin@ : Martin Gregorie
>gregorie : Harlow, UK
>demon :
>co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
>uk :
>
>

[Bert Willing]

Not that I think that it would cheer you up, but the reason for the last two
month's UK wheather is a pretty strong Acore high pressure (deviating all
cyclones to the north) which has given the Alps (at least the western part)
the best conditions since at least 10 years. And not just one day - since
beginning of June, the conditions are just tremendeous.

Sorry for that...

Bert

"Martin Gregorie" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> On 21 Jul 2003 11:54:17 GMT, Owain Walters
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >I must be living in a different UK to you guys. This
> >year has been pretty good really.
> >
> Speaking entirely from my experiences, May was excellent and I thought
> it was the start of a great year, but the last two months have been
> pretty dire. OK for local soaring, I suppose, but nothing I could do a
> significant xc in.
>
> Maybe I should just practise harder :-(
>
>
> --
> martin@ : Martin Gregorie
> gregorie : Harlow, UK
> demon :
> co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
> uk :
>

[Mark James Boyd]

I'm personaly very interested in trying Minden and Tahoe in
the Western US. Huge thermals, wave in the winter, and
huge convergence make this a mecca for Western soaring
for me. And the prices at SoarMinden look pretty reasonable
too.

Training somewhere that allows you to use water because there
is so much lift, and probably requires oxygen too, would be
my choice. Probably not as good for beginners
(Avenal, Hobbs, and Tucson have super cheap club type
operations for that, and there are tons of other great
sites here in the western US for just getting a US rating).

http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~mjboyd/cfi/glider/gliderclubs

was my survey of California, USA gliderports about a year ago.

For my training, I picked a place that was low hassle
(I didn't want umpteen checkout flights), had a variety of
gliders, had cheap and available tows, had cheap rentals,
and had great soaring nearby. Avenal is three hours drive
away, and I'm willing to do that instead of Hollister
(which is significantly more expensive, has less variety
but higher performance gliders, and has infrequent
soaring conditions, but has better instructor
availability - 7 days a week).

[Owain Walters]

Bruce,

I agree completley thats why I am only just back from
Spain. But this chap has 40 hours and I think that
suggesting a place that boasts 1000km tasks may not
be entirely relevant.

My advice is:- go where you want. Everyone here will
always have a better suggestion so you will never get
a good concensus.

Owain

[Tim]

mosquito >s comments read:

>the first thing I think of when someone mentions SA is, 'doesn't it have
>a high crime rate?'

It's only because the local pilots keep trying to steal the aircraft
that have been imported for the season ;-)
--
Tim - ASW20CL "20"