Insurance out of hand? - AOPA flying clubs high perf retractable

[Ron]

Just a question to see if this is typical. Evidently the only agency now
willing to insure Flying Club high performance retractables is AOPA. Its
great they are stepping up to help AOPA members, we have a 210 and Avemco
has left the market.

However the new policy in effect for our club will be 250TT (good - it used
to be 350), 50 hours retractable, 25 in type. Is this typical for other
clubs with AOPA?

Who is going to be willing to pay for 25 hours with an instructor? Remember
this is a flying club where members supposedly are able to move up to planes
as they gain experience. That is a lot of money and time to haul an
instructor around if you were able to get Bonanza or other comparable time.
Even 25 hours dual is not enough if that is the only retractable time. Then
a potential student is looking at 50 hours dual with an instructor or else
find a club with an Arrow I guess.

Did the high performance airplane just receive a death sentence for clubs?

Ron

[John Harlow]

> Did the high performance airplane just receive a death sentence for
> clubs?

Yes.

Lots of clubs are learning the harsh reality of owning these.

[Michael]

Ron wrote:
> Just a question to see if this is typical. Evidently the only agency
now
> willing to insure Flying Club high performance retractables is AOPA.
Its
> great they are stepping up to help AOPA members, we have a 210 and
Avemco
> has left the market.

The first question you need to ask yourself is WHY did Avemco leave the
market? And the answer is that high performance retracts in clubs have
an unattractive loss history, especially when flown by the
inexperienced pilot.

> However the new policy in effect for our club will be 250TT (good -
it used
> to be 350), 50 hours retractable, 25 in type. Is this typical for
other
> clubs with AOPA?

It is from what I have seen. What's more, it's actually better than
what I see at FBO's, the few times an FBO even has an airplane like
that to rent.

> Who is going to be willing to pay for 25 hours with an instructor?

Very few, and that's the point. The goal is to not insure the
transition pilot, but only a pilot who is already expereinced in that
kind of airplane. As an added benefit, the plane flies fewer hours,
and since it sits a lot it's available to the few experienced members
who can fly it, and who will fly it more.

> Remember
> this is a flying club where members supposedly are able to move up to
planes
> as they gain experience.

The concept of simply moving up as you gain experience is going by the
wayside. People are simply not learning the skills necessary to do
that, and insurance companies are catching on. Now they want to make
sure that experience is gained in the same class of airplane, and
plenty of it - with an instructor along to reduce the risk.

> That is a lot of money and time to haul an
> instructor around if you were able to get Bonanza or other comparable
time.

And I have no doubt that if you had a pilot with 1000 hours, 500 of
them Bonanza/Comanche time, you could name him at no additional cost
with a minimal (5 hours at most) chechout. That's the kind of pilot
the insurers want to see high performance retracts.

> Did the high performance airplane just receive a death sentence for
clubs?

Probably. The realistic way to fly a high performance complex airplane
is group ownership, and if you're not going to be flying it enough to
justify owning a 1/4 share, then you really shouldn't be flying it
anyway.

Michael

[Dylan Smith]

In article >, Ron wrote:
> Who is going to be willing to pay for 25 hours with an instructor?

Hardly anyone. You may get some people who do their Commercial
instruction (so they aren't just doing a 25 hour checkout).

However, the insurance might be negotiable. For example, when our club
had a Bonanza, it had fairly onerous checkout requirements. I had
significant enough time in other retracts that they reduced the dual
time requirement for me to 5 hours, followed by 5 hours solo. Had I
needed a 25 hour checkout I'd have never bothered - it would cost far
too much money before I could make any use of the plane.

There were never very many members checked out in the Bonanza, but it
did fly a reasonable amount, and it was almost entirely used for
cross country trips.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Georg]

Dylan Smith wrote:
> Had I
> needed a 25 hour checkout I'd have never bothered - it would cost far
> too much money before I could make any use of the plane.
>
Can't you use the plane with an instructor in it?