World Gliding Championships British Team [Archive]

Eric Greenwell

August 11th 03, 06:01 PM

In article >, stant2
@mindspring.com says...

>
> Us colonials need to learn a thing or two from you limeys.
>
> Better yet, why don't you start using our bloody racing rules - that
> will get Yanks on the podium in a heartbeat!

It's not the rules, it's the weather. If you want to learn to fly
really well, leave Arizona and go someplace with weak weather. When
those guys come here and fly by our rules, they still come out top. A
good pilot will win regardless of the rules. It's not an amazing
observation that it's easier for a weak weather pilot to adapt to
strong conditions than the reverse.
--
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directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

W.J. $Bill$ Dean $U.K.$.

August 11th 03, 11:11 PM

I have never flown in a competition, I have only crewed, or been a member of
a host club or part of the organisation.

It seems to me that any country which wants their pilots to do well in
International competitions, would be sensible to use exactly the same rules
and regulations for National comps. as are currently used for International
comps.

If you do not like something in the rules, then work to get the
International rules changed rather than doing something different
Nationally.

An important part of International competition is team flying. At one time
U.K. pilots were being regularly beaten by pilots from countries who were
using effective team flying. A deliberate effort has and is being made to
coach the U.K. team, in particular in team flying, this coaching starts with
the Juniors.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.

>
> "Kirk Stant" > wrote in message
> m...
>
> >
> > (OscarCVox) wrote in message
> > >...
> >
> > Well done to the British team
> > Std Class 1st
> > 15m Class 4th
> > 18m class 2nd and 3rd (Steve and Phil Jones, 1st time brothers have been
> > on the podium?)
> > Open Class 4th
> > Not bad for a soggy little island
> >
> > Nigel
> >
>
> Nice flying!
>
> Us colonials need to learn a thing or two from you limeys.
>
> Better yet, why don't you start using our bloody racing rules - that
> will get Yanks on the podium in a heartbeat!
>
> Kirk
>

Kirk Stant

August 12th 03, 06:25 AM

Eric Greenwell > wrote in message >...

> It's not the rules, it's the weather. If you want to learn to fly
> really well, leave Arizona and go someplace with weak weather. When
> those guys come here and fly by our rules, they still come out top. A
> good pilot will win regardless of the rules. It's not an amazing
> observation that it's easier for a weak weather pilot to adapt to
> strong conditions than the reverse.

I'm not sure I totally agree. France has great soaring weather, and
the Brits and Germans often run off to exotic locales (Spain, South
Africa, etc.) to fly in conditions everybit as good as ours can be.
On the other hand, Arizona in spring or fall can provide lots of good
weak weather training, with the additional pucker factor of no place
to landout! A pilot needs to be able to handle everything from
survival mode to warp speed. A pilot who only flies in weak weather
is going to be unbelievably slow our west in strong conditions, and a
pilot who only flies in strong conditions will be back in the bar
having a beer pretty quick in weak conditions.

The bigger problem, IMHO, is the TOTAL lack of a system in the US to
develop pilots that can compete in the Worlds succesfully. We have
great individual pilots, but no system to select and train pilots to
compete at the world level.

Until that happens, we will stay in the middle of the pack, at best.

And our rules don't help...Since they barely correlate to what the
rest of the world uses.

Kirk
66

Eric Greenwell

August 12th 03, 06:45 AM

In article >, stant2
@mindspring.com says...

> The bigger problem, IMHO, is the TOTAL lack of a system in the US to
> develop pilots that can compete in the Worlds succesfully. We have
> great individual pilots, but no system to select and train pilots to
> compete at the world level.

I don't think that is a bad thing, IF our rules promote soaring in
this country. I think that should be a higher priority than selecting
and training gliders to do well at the World level.

> And our rules don't help...Since they barely correlate to what the
> rest of the world uses.

I'd like to hear from Team members on how much our rules interfere
with our success, because I have the impression that the only one that
has hampered us in the past is our "no team flying" rule. This rule is
scheduled to become a World rule in a few years, if I remember
correctly.
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directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

Dylan Smith

August 12th 03, 02:28 PM

On 09 Aug 2003 21:14:02 GMT, OscarCVox > wrote:
>Well done to the british team
>Std Class 1st
>15m Class 4th
>18m class 2nd and 3rd (Steve and Phil Jones, 1st time brothers have been on the
>podium?)
>Open Class 4th
>Not bad for a soggy little island

Nice :-)

However, your island isn't as little or as soggy as ours :-)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Kirk Stant

August 12th 03, 03:51 PM

Eric Greenwell > wrote in message >...
>
> I don't think that is a bad thing, IF our rules promote soaring in
> this country. I think that should be a higher priority than selecting
> and training gliders to do well at the World level.

Real big IF! Hate to say this, but soaring isn't very popular in this
country. We mainly have a lot of weekend local hackers, and a few
crazed racers. A few small programs to introduce the sport to youth,
but the emphasis is almost universally on getting a licence, not on
progressing to XC and racing. The field I fly at has a very active
soaring school, turns out lots of new glider pilots, but we have a
hard time getting any of them to join our club and fly our G-102 (GPS,
glide computer, O2, XC encouraged, 20$/hour or $500/year all you can
fly!) - they mostly seem to want to grind around in 2-33s or 1-26s
until they get bored or run out of money, then we never see them
again. I think it is because soaring is not being sold as a sport -
with the ultimate goal of being World Champion; instead it is being
sold (literally, to make money for the commecial schools) as a "cheap
way to fly" (it isn't), and a fun way to spend the afternoon floating
around the sky (which it is, to a point). As a result, when the new
glider pilot sees us "glassholes" push over and launch for a race, I
think their reaction is "Bunch of rich jerks with their expensive
toys" (which is emphatically not true - except maybe for the jerk part
- in my case) instead of "Neat, racing gliders, that's my goal!" Look
at all the bicycle riders zipping around in full-monty spandex these
days. They may not be racing, but they sure can look like Lance! And
them "10-speeds" sure aren't cheap anymore, either!

And please don't give me the "Well you have to be more approachable,
you are scaring them away, they get the cold shoulder, hold their
hands..." whine. I've heard it, and at least out here, it is total
BS. We try, but as they say, you can't push on a rope. There has to
be motivation, and for many it just isn't there. For the lucky few
who get hit by lightning and see the light (whew, big mixed metaphor
this early!), we have all the self-motivation we need.

> I'd like to hear from Team members on how much our rules interfere
> with our success, because I have the impression that the only one that
> has hampered us in the past is our "no team flying" rule. This rule is
> scheduled to become a World rule in a few years, if I remember
> correctly.

Me too, if we could hear what they really think. But do you really
think they are going to bite the hand that sent them to the Worlds,
and may do it again? "Yep, we done ****ty against them furriners cause
the SSA and SRA suck! Bye, gotta go fly me a two hour TAT, I just love
them free 15 minutes!". Sounds like a line in a PEZ cartoon!

I saw where they are going to limit entries to one per class per
country, which would effectively eliminate team flying - maybe.
Cooperation across classes may still be possible. We'll have to see.

But what do I know, I'm just a lowly local and regional racer, not a
sky god.

Kirk
66

Eric Greenwell

August 12th 03, 05:03 PM

In article >, stant2
@mindspring.com says...

> Me too, if we could hear what they really think. But do you really
> think they are going to bite the hand that sent them to the Worlds,
> and may do it again? "Yep, we done ****ty against them furriners cause
> the SSA and SRA suck! Bye, gotta go fly me a two hour TAT, I just love
> them free 15 minutes!". Sounds like a line in a PEZ cartoon!

If you look at the names that come up with these rules, you'd know
they ARE or WERE team pilots. So, why are these pilots coming up with
rules that will hamper them or similar pilots in World contests? I
don't think you've made the point that our rules really work against
us in the World competitions, and until you do that, it's a lousy
reason to change our rules.

--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

Kirk Stant

August 13th 03, 06:01 AM

Eric Greenwell > wrote in message >...

> If you look at the names that come up with these rules, you'd know
> they ARE or WERE team pilots. So, why are these pilots coming up with
> rules that will hamper them or similar pilots in World contests? I
> don't think you've made the point that our rules really work against
> us in the World competitions, and until you do that, it's a lousy
> reason to change our rules.

Uh, excuse me, but team flying is not allowed in US competitions. So
by definition, none of these pilots are team pilots. I've tried team
flying. It's a lot of fun, but also a lot of work, and the psychology
is really interesting. But it can make two gliders go a lot faster
than if they were flying individually - I have the .igc traces to
prove it. It is absolutely not something you do on the spur of the
moment and expect to do well at. I don't know why these rules have
been implemented, maybe they favor the type of flying the implementers
prefer. I would love to hear why some of these rules were
implemented. Bottom line: we suck in international contests. No brag,
just fact. Now we fly the same gliders, with the same instruments,
and our weather is no better or worse than the rest of the world's.
You do the math.

It's a really good reason to change our rules. They are what set us
apart from the rest of the global soaring community. And until we
grow up and play in the big leagues, we will continue to be a minor
player in international soaring.

Doesn't it **** you off to be beaten by Japan?

Kirk
66

dennis brown

August 13th 03, 12:58 PM

I most emphatically disagree that the World's rules should be used
to select the individual who is our National Champion. Precisely because
the World's are dominated by team flying. The U.S. champion should
reflect the attributes that we want in a U.S. champion. Singular.

Now if the powers who be want to limit the World's to one entry per
class per country and forbid ground based assistance during the flight
then we can start debating the rules. Might make a considerable
difference in how expensive the World's participation is, too.

Dennis Brown

In article >,
(Kirk Stant) wrote:
>Eric Greenwell > wrote in message
> >...
>
>> If you look at the names that come up with these rules, you'd know
>> they ARE or WERE team pilots. So, why are these pilots coming up with
>> rules that will hamper them or similar pilots in World contests? I
>> don't think you've made the point that our rules really work against
>> us in the World competitions, and until you do that, it's a lousy
>> reason to change our rules.
>
>Uh, excuse me, but team flying is not allowed in US competitions. So
>by definition, none of these pilots are team pilots. I've tried team
>flying. It's a lot of fun, but also a lot of work, and the psychology
>is really interesting. But it can make two gliders go a lot faster
>than if they were flying individually - I have the .igc traces to
>prove it. It is absolutely not something you do on the spur of the
>moment and expect to do well at. I don't know why these rules have
>been implemented, maybe they favor the type of flying the implementers
>prefer. I would love to hear why some of these rules were
>implemented. Bottom line: we suck in international contests. No brag,
>just fact. Now we fly the same gliders, with the same instruments,
>and our weather is no better or worse than the rest of the world's.
>You do the math.
>
>It's a really good reason to change our rules. They are what set us
>apart from the rest of the global soaring community. And until we
>grow up and play in the big leagues, we will continue to be a minor
>player in international soaring.
>
>Doesn't it **** you off to be beaten by Japan?
>
>Kirk
>66

Eric Greenwell

August 13th 03, 06:08 PM

In article >, stant2
@mindspring.com says...
> Eric Greenwell > wrote in message >...
>
> > If you look at the names that come up with these rules, you'd know
> > they ARE or WERE team pilots. So, why are these pilots coming up with
> > rules that will hamper them or similar pilots in World contests? I
> > don't think you've made the point that our rules really work against
> > us in the World competitions, and until you do that, it's a lousy
> > reason to change our rules.
>
> Uh, excuse me, but team flying is not allowed in US competitions. So
> by definition, none of these pilots are team pilots.

I meant they were on our Team to the international championships, not
that they routinely did "team flying".

> I've tried team
> flying. It's a lot of fun, but also a lot of work, and the psychology
> is really interesting. But it can make two gliders go a lot faster
> than if they were flying individually - I have the .igc traces to
> prove it. It is absolutely not something you do on the spur of the
> moment and expect to do well at.

I agree, but this is the only rule I'm aware of that has hampered our
Team pilots.

> I don't know why these rules have
> been implemented, maybe they favor the type of flying the implementers
> prefer.

This rule has been around for at least the 28 years I've been in the
sport. I think it represents our national character, if there is such
a thing, and it's certainly in line with how most of the racing pilots
have felt over the years I've been in the sport. As a group, we're
pretty individualistic. There's been no clamor to change it while I've
been around, though the idea does resurface periodically, but goes
nowhere, and soon even the international races will not allow it. I
think it's a dead issue.

> I would love to hear why some of these rules were
> implemented. Bottom line: we suck in international contests. No brag,
> just fact. Now we fly the same gliders, with the same instruments,
> and our weather is no better or worse than the rest of the world's.
> You do the math.

Other the team flying rule, which we've known to be a problem for
decades, what current rules makes us unprepared for international
competition? Will changing these rules better promote soaring in this
country? And why do US pilots with considerable experience in
international competitions make these rules if it will hamper them or
others that get on the US Team?

>
> It's a really good reason to change our rules. They are what set us
> apart from the rest of the global soaring community. And until we
> grow up and play in the big leagues, we will continue to be a minor
> player in international soaring.
>
> Doesn't it **** you off to be beaten by Japan?

No. And frankly, I don't take if personally if our Team is beaten by
some other Team, either.
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

Hank Nixon

August 13th 03, 10:13 PM

(Kirk Stant) wrote in message >...
> Eric Greenwell > wrote in message >...
>
> > If you look at the names that come up with these rules, you'd know
> > they ARE or WERE team pilots. So, why are these pilots coming up with
> > rules that will hamper them or similar pilots in World contests? I
> > don't think you've made the point that our rules really work against
> > us in the World competitions, and until you do that, it's a lousy
> > reason to change our rules.
>
> Uh, excuse me, but team flying is not allowed in US competitions. So
> by definition, none of these pilots are team pilots. I've tried team
> flying. It's a lot of fun, but also a lot of work, and the psychology
> is really interesting. But it can make two gliders go a lot faster
> than if they were flying individually - I have the .igc traces to
> prove it. It is absolutely not something you do on the spur of the
> moment and expect to do well at. I don't know why these rules have
> been implemented, maybe they favor the type of flying the implementers
> prefer. I would love to hear why some of these rules were
> implemented. Bottom line: we suck in international contests. No brag,
> just fact. Now we fly the same gliders, with the same instruments,
> and our weather is no better or worse than the rest of the world's.
> You do the math.
>
> It's a really good reason to change our rules. They are what set us
> apart from the rest of the global soaring community. And until we
> grow up and play in the big leagues, we will continue to be a minor
> player in international soaring.
>
> Doesn't it **** you off to be beaten by Japan?
>
> Kirk
> 66

A bit of a challange for Kirk:
Please provide info to member of the rules comm. as to what rule says
that team flying is not allowed in US competition. I have not been
able to find such a rule.
Team flying happens now- you simply are not aware of it.
Would be interested in your explanation of why the new 18M World
Champion beat the only team in the 18M- the former WC and his brother.
Possibly you can explain how John Coutts managed to win the 15M with
no team mate.
As to getting beaten by Mac. He is an excellent pilot who has
dedicated his life becoming the best pilot he can be. I consider him a
friend and find it insulting to him that you would refer to him in
such a manner.
UH WGC Team 01 and 02

Marc Ramsey

August 13th 03, 10:36 PM

"Hank Nixon" > wrote...
> Please provide info to member of the rules comm. as to what rule says
> that team flying is not allowed in US competition. I have not been
> able to find such a rule.

U.S. National FAI-Class Competition Rules, Contest Year 2003:

10.7.2.7 Relaying of information between aircraft for any reason other than
safety is prohibited. This specifically forbids team flying.

> Team flying happens now- you simply are not aware of it.

Somehow, I'm not surprised...

Marc

OscarCVox

August 14th 03, 12:22 AM

If Pilots are team flying Results would also be similar since they have to be
fairly close to be of any use to each other.
In the standard class britsh pilots were 1st and 19th (out of 44)
15m class 4th and 37th (out of 41)
18m class 2nd and 3rd (out of 23)
open class 4th (out of 20)
From this I would deduce that team flying was only of use in the 18m class.

What seems to be having an influence in the UK is the number of younger pilots
coming along and 'pushing' the established stars.

Pete Smith

August 14th 03, 12:57 PM

Amazing how a congratulatory message can be turned
into a chat on yank issues. Supprised no-one has mentioned
schweizer spam cans.

At 04:06 14 August 2003, Oscarcvox wrote:
>If Pilots are team flying Results would also be similar
>since they have to be
>fairly close to be of any use to each other.
>In the standard class britsh pilots were 1st and 19th
>(out of 44)
>15m class 4th and 37th (out of 41)
>18m class 2nd and 3rd (out of 23)
>open class 4th (out of 20)
> From this I would deduce that team flying was only
>of use in the 18m class.
>
>What seems to be having an influence in the UK is the
>number of younger pilots
>coming along and 'pushing' the established stars.
>

Marcel Duenner

August 14th 03, 01:10 PM

(OscarCVox) wrote in message >...
> If Pilots are team flying Results would also be similar since they have to be
> fairly close to be of any use to each other.

Wrong conclusion based on wrong assumption. Depends on how you define
and/or execute team flying.
One form of team flying (the form you and most are probably thinking
of) is the close team where the two gliders are rarely or never more
than a few hundred meters apart. The extreme variant: If for some
reason the gap gets too big, the one ahead waits (even deploys
spoilers!) for the other to catch up. If one has to outland, the other
will join him. Successful examples: French team at the WGC in Wiener
Neustadt, the Frei brothers who won the pre-Worlds in Bayreuth. They
tied for first place twice in the Swiss Nationals.
Less extreme: if the team gets separated, each member flies on and
gives all relevant information to the other. It becomes an info-team.
The one behind has a very good chance of catching up again. That's how
most teams work. Successful example: the Crabb brothers (I think
that's how they do it).
Some teams don't even bother to try to stay together because they'll
get seperated anyway. So they start off as a pure info-team from the
beginning.

> In the standard class britsh pilots were 1st and 19th (out of 44)
> 15m class 4th and 37th (out of 41)
> 18m class 2nd and 3rd (out of 23)
> open class 4th (out of 20)
> From this I would deduce that team flying was only of use in the 18m class.

See above. The overall ranking says nothing about successful or not
team flying. On WGC level you can lose more than 10 overall places
with one bad day. I know, believe me.
How do you know 1st in standard and 4th in 15m weren't a result of
good info-team flying? As soon as one pilot has no chance of winning
anymore, why not send him ahead to try and make the other pilot even
faster? (Don't know for sure if this is done)

Now about 4th place in open class. Ever thought of inter-class or
inter-national team flying? Example: Makoto Ichikawa (JPN) and Thomas
Suchanek (CZ) flew as a team in Poland.
So just forget the one-pilot-per-nation-per-class rubbish to prevent
team flying. Even IGC must realise that, no?

Regards
Marcel

Marcel Duenner

August 14th 03, 01:13 PM

Tim

August 14th 03, 02:34 PM

Pete Smith >s comments read:

>Amazing how a congratulatory message can be turned
>into a chat on yank issues. Supprised no-one has mentioned
>schweizer spam cans.

Be glad that they aren't discussing "World Class"
--
Tim - ASW20CL "20"

Hank Nixon

August 14th 03, 04:35 PM

"Marc Ramsey" > wrote in message >...
> "Hank Nixon" > wrote...
> > Please provide info to member of the rules comm. as to what rule says
> > that team flying is not allowed in US competition. I have not been
> > able to find such a rule.
>
> U.S. National FAI-Class Competition Rules, Contest Year 2003:
>
> 10.7.2.7 Relaying of information between aircraft for any reason other than
> safety is prohibited. This specifically forbids team flying.
>
> > Team flying happens now- you simply are not aware of it.
>
> Somehow, I'm not surprised...
>
> Marc

Reply: As you might well expect, there are many elements to team
flying. One of the more useful is the exchange of information by
radio. As noted, this is not permitted in our rules.
There are many other elements and techniques that can be used by
cooperating pilots to help each other without verbal communication.
Those who have flown with and watched the skilled team flyers can see
them as obvious.
These include cooperative search patterns in both climb and glide,
agreement as to lead and follow, waiting for partner so both can stay
in the same air, and a variety of other techniques.
These occur today and are legal within our rules. It does not involve
cheating as you seem to imply.
With 2 frequencies available for us to share among ourselves and other
users, I suspect it would not be pretty. Those who could team fly with
little or no radio communication would simply have the benefit of the
portion of radio chatter that is useful and would not use the radio to
pass on useful info to others.
UH

Janusz Kesik

August 14th 03, 05:46 PM

Well... I just wanted to point out that there were some guys who started =
the team flying and made use of it first.
Just remind some names like Makula (Edward), Kepka, Popiel, Witek, =
Muszczynski and some other Poles whose names I can't remember at the =
moment.

Just my 2c,

Regards,

--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.wgc2003.pl

U=BFytkownik Marcel Duenner > w wiadomooci do =
grup dyskusyjnych =
gle.com...
> (OscarCVox) wrote in message =
>...

> One form of team flying (the form you and most are probably thinking
> of) is the close team where the two gliders are rarely or never more
> than a few hundred meters apart. The extreme variant: If for some
> reason the gap gets too big, the one ahead waits (even deploys
> spoilers!) for the other to catch up. If one has to outland, the other
> will join him. Successful examples: French team at the WGC in Wiener
> Neustadt, the Frei brothers who won the pre-Worlds in Bayreuth. They
> tied for first place twice in the Swiss Nationals.

Kirk Stant

August 14th 03, 11:29 PM

(Hank Nixon) wrote in message >...

> A bit of a challange for Kirk:
> Please provide info to member of the rules comm. as to what rule says
> that team flying is not allowed in US competition. I have not been
> able to find such a rule.

Others have beaten me to it. But there it is.

> Team flying happens now- you simply are not aware of it.

Sure it does. Depending on your point of view, it is either friends
flying together, or cheating. Take your pick...

> Would be interested in your explanation of why the new 18M World
> Champion beat the only team in the 18M- the former WC and his brother.
> Possibly you can explain how John Coutts managed to win the 15M with
> no team mate.

Look back over the past several WGCs and I think you will find team
flying has had significant effects on the scores.

> As to getting beaten by Mac. He is an excellent pilot who has
> dedicated his life becoming the best pilot he can be. I consider him a
> friend and find it insulting to him that you would refer to him in
> such a manner.

Oh give me a break. That's like saying you wouldn't care if your
favorite football team - which lets say has lots of talent to choose
from - gets consistently beaten by some team from the backwoods that
plays everybody they've got. I ****es me off not because they are
better, which they obviously are, but because we should be better. I
know I sure as hell was ****ed off when Australia, then New Zealand,
took the America's cup away. And cheered when we took it back, and
was ****ed again when we lost it again.

Heaven forbid a little passion in our sport - someone will just make a
rule to eliminate it. Safer, you know.

Kirk
66

Dylan Smith

August 15th 03, 12:30 PM

On 12 Aug 2003 07:51:10 -0700, Kirk Stant > wrote:
>hard time getting any of them to join our club and fly our G-102 (GPS,
>glide computer, O2, XC encouraged, 20$/hour or $500/year all you can
>fly!) - they mostly seem to want to grind around in 2-33s or 1-26s
>until they get bored or run out of money, then we never see them
>again.

I noticed this sort of thing when I lived in Houston as a member of the
SCOH. They had a 2-33, several Blaniks, and a Grob 103.

The 2-33 and Blaniks were difficult to schedule during the flying
season. I was learning gliders at the time, and I decided to schedule
the under-used G103 instead. Instantly, my scheduling woes were gone.

I couldn't figure out why no one would fly the ship - it flew nicely,
thermalled well, and as a consequence of no one scheduling it, I had
a couple of very enjoyable multi-hour soaring flights whilst working
on my ticket, including a couple of memorable flights where I got it
slow enough in a thermal to go around with the hawks.

Admittedly, I like the Blaniks too, they handle very nicely even if
they aren't a cross country machine (and living where I do now, it's
more important to have something that will thermal on a fart rather
than the latest 50:1 super glass). But the 2-33? Very nostalgic and
all that, bit it steers like a cow.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Snead1

August 16th 03, 04:34 AM

Why have we decided to restrict team flying in US competition?

Bill Snead
6W

Ronald Tabery

August 16th 03, 11:32 PM

Congratulations to the British Team! Their placings were well
deserved.

Regarding team flying, I had the good fortune to team fly with Peter
Harvey (Open Class) at Leszno, and yes we formed a cross-cultural
"team." Since Open Class is presently restricted to one pilot per
country, any team flying had to be international. Peter took the
initiative to help me on a day that went blue. Next day I was in front
and relayed what I hope was valuable info to him.

But it should be understood that it was a matter of timely coincidence
and convenience and since we knew each other's radio frequencies, we
were able to communicate to our mutual benefit. Peter placed 4th and
I was 5th, but I promise that our final placings were not changed as a
result of "teaming up."

Team flying is not absolutely vital it seems. Consider this outcome.
The pilot that won with the largest margin (points and percentage) in
any class was Holger Karow (Open). Look at the start times and you
will see that generally, he went early -- often alone -- read clouds
and made good decisions. I assume that Holger received whatever
ground-based information the German team had which may have been more
useful than a teammate on a wingtip. I flew with Holger enough to
know that our decisions would have changed little if we were talking
things over.

In my experience, the benefits from team flying are generally minor
and very definitely dependant on the situation. It is some use in
dicey weird weather but in good weather a lot of team flying goes as
follows: "I'm over here...Where are you?" It is more distraction than
benefit.