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Mike Havener
August 12th 03, 10:33 PM
The Lake Elsinore Soaring Club is looking for qualified CFIGs to
become part of our instruction staff. The club is located at Skylark
Airport in the city of Lake Elsinore, California. We have year round
soaring and operate from 10:00am to 4:30pm on Saturday, Sunday and
Wednesday. The club has 2 Callaire A-9 tow planes that provide the
tows for the following gliders in our fleet:

3 - SGS 2-33A
1 - Blanik L-13
1 - SGS 1-26A
1 - Pliatus B4

Monthly dues are waived for a CFIG's service, which means that you can
fly any glider in our fleet (that you are checked out in and qualified
to fly) for the price of a tow. Instuction fees are paid directly to
the CFIG by thier students.

You can checkout our web site at www.soarelsinore.org.

Intersted candidates please contact the Chief Flight Instructor, Mike
Havener, at .

Bill Daniels
August 14th 03, 02:53 PM
"Michael" > wrote in message
om...
> (Mike Havener) wrote
> > The Lake Elsinore Soaring Club is looking for qualified CFIGs to
> > become part of our instruction staff.
> > Monthly dues are waived for a CFIG's service, which means that you can
> > fly any glider in our fleet (that you are checked out in and qualified
> > to fly) for the price of a tow. Instuction fees are paid directly to
> > the CFIG by thier students.
>
> I always find it interesting when a club is so short of CFIG's that it
> has to waive dues and have the students pay for instruction, and must
> still advertise. Makes me wonder - how come they can't grow their own
> instructors in sufficient quantity? It's not particularly difficult
> to become a CFIG, nor is it particularly expensive or time consuming.
> Things that make you go hmmm...
>
> Michael

It is interesting isn't it. I think the problem is that some clubs insist
on seeing instructors as low-paid employees.

In fact, they are very valuable volunteers who endure the hard work and risk
because they love to teach soaring. If you remove the intangible rewards
which the employer-employee relationship often does, the CFI-G's just walk
away - they have more rewarding things to do.

Bill Daniels

Liam Finley
August 14th 03, 08:42 PM
(Michael) wrote in message > I always find it interesting when a club is so short of CFIG's that it
> has to waive dues and have the students pay for instruction, and must
> still advertise. Makes me wonder - how come they can't grow their own
> instructors in sufficient quantity? It's not particularly difficult
> to become a CFIG, nor is it particularly expensive or time consuming.
> Things that make you go hmmm...
>
> Michael

I believe this is the same club that, a year or two ago, had to
dismiss one of their instructors for physically assaulting a student.
There must be some interesting social dynamics going on.

Mark James Boyd
August 14th 03, 09:52 PM
Sport pilot to the rescue!

Take a look at the NPRM for sport pilots. You'll notice
that the requirements for a current power CFI to
become a glider "sport" CFI are simply two
endorsements from two different already "glider" CFIs.
No checkride required.

So once this rule is in effect, you can make a
power CFI into a glider "sport" CFI in a single
day with no FAA paperwork or checkride.
Just get two CFIGs to fly with him/her and write
endorsements.

Then have this "new" sport CFI do the pre-solo, solo,
and training for students. Then when the student has
the requirements for the private, send the student up
with a CFIG for a progress check and sign off.
The "sport" glider time and training will count
towards this private rating (at least that's what
the NPRM proposes).

Alternately, if the student already has a Private power license,
once they're signed off for aerotow and glider current,
they can fly experimental gliders with passengers.
61.31(k)(iii) exempts holders of pilot certificates
from PIC category and class requirements in experimentals,
but does not exempt currency or endorsements required.

Caveats are the experimental limitations can't restrict the
pilot to only those with category and class, and
the insurance company. But this is already
possible under the current rules.

Probably better is to teach an already power pilot
enough to sign off for aerotow and glider solo,
then endorse the pilot as a "sport" pilot in
category and class and make and model.
Then they can take one passenger in that sport glider.

I wonder if any of this will make it past insurance
companies, though. If not (if the insurance guys
only want CFIGs instucting) then all this is moot and
your back to the (fairly rare) CFIG.

The actual pure "sport" glider license itself
is absurd. A prereq is 25 mile cross-country training,
which includes flight solely by reference to
instruments. This is much more than the requirements
for the Private glider. Hopefully the NPRM doesn't
reflect the final rule and all glider X-C references
will be deleted.

http://www1.faa.gov/avr/afs/sportpilot/index.cfm

Mark James Boyd
August 15th 03, 06:34 AM
I believe max gross is 1232 and Vne is less than 115 for
sport gliders, so yes, the L-13 and G-103 don't
qualify as sport but the 2-33 certainly does. So does the
1-26 (just barely).

On the other hand the PW-5 is so wicked fast it too
cannot qualify as a "sport" aircraft. :P

BTIZ
August 16th 03, 04:07 AM
most single seat gliders.. other than the 1-26.. may not qualify because of
the low stall speed limit.. but mostly for the max Vne.. 115Knts.. most have
Vne well above the 120s and into the 140s

Even the ultralight Sparrow Hawk does not qualify for the "Sport Pilot"..
it's Vne is 123Knt

BT

"Mark James Boyd" > wrote in message
...
> I believe max gross is 1232 and Vne is less than 115 for
> sport gliders, so yes, the L-13 and G-103 don't
> qualify as sport but the 2-33 certainly does. So does the
> 1-26 (just barely).
>
> On the other hand the PW-5 is so wicked fast it too
> cannot qualify as a "sport" aircraft. :P
>

BTIZ
August 16th 03, 05:55 PM
I would think it would be based on information when the type data
certificate was issued.

And why would a manufacturer limit himself to lower performance.. just
limits the potential buyer list..

BT

"Marc Ramsey" > wrote in message
...
> "BTIZ" > wrote...
> > most single seat gliders.. other than the 1-26.. may not qualify because
of
> > the low stall speed limit.. but mostly for the max Vne.. 115Knts.. most
have
> > Vne well above the 120s and into the 140s
> >
> > Even the ultralight Sparrow Hawk does not qualify for the "Sport
Pilot"..
> > it's Vne is 123Knt
>
> What prevents alternative LSA versions of the POH and placards?
>
> Marc
>
>

JohnH
August 24th 03, 07:02 AM
Mark James Boyd wrote:
> Well, if I recall correctly, Vne is .90 of Vd (design diving
> speed), Vd is 1.4 times Vno, and Vno is predicated on
> category (aerobatic, utility, normal), right?
>
> So if the manufacturer creates an STC for a different
> category (perhaps also allowing a different C.G. range,
> like the Cessna 172) then Vne could be altered by a
> simple POH change and placard change?
>
> And it seems this could be easily reversed.
>
> Perhaps not a bad idea either to in this way restrict
> the "LSA" version to non-aerobatic manuevers...
>
> Or I suppose you could just safety wire the flaps
> "down" all the time, thereby reducing stall speed
> AND Vne at the same time ;(
>
> If the market is there, we'll get to see some potentially
> interesting paper-shuffling...
>
>

Scuse me, but what is Vd, Vno, STC, C.G., P.O.H., LSA, and Vne? And
please explain after expanding. Other than that, I know what you are
talking about ;>>

To the point, does a FAQ exist for these acronyms?

The noob.....gotta start somewhere :)

(Donning Asbestos and running for cover....

hehe)

ADP
August 24th 03, 08:09 PM
14 CFR 1.2 Abbreviations and symbols.

Not included:

STC - Supplemental Type Certificate
CG - Center of Gravity
POH - Pilots Operating Handbook
LSA - List of CFR sections affected
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/lsa/aboutlsa.html

But he means - LSA - Light Sport Aircraft

Allan

"
> >
> >
>
> Scuse me, but what is Vd, Vno, STC, C.G., P.O.H., LSA, and Vne? And
> please explain after expanding. Other than that, I know what you are
> talking about ;>>
>
> To the point, does a FAQ exist for these acronyms?
>
> The noob.....gotta start somewhere :)
>
> (Donning Asbestos and running for cover....
>
> hehe)
>
>

Chuck Scrivner
September 29th 03, 05:49 PM
You have all mistakenly assumed that the Max speed
limit set by the Sport Pilot initiatve equates to Vne.
It does not.

It is defined as maximum speed at level flight with
full thrust.

You are all correct that The Sport Pilot initiatve
is inappropriate as it relates to soaring.

ie; As a new 'sport student' in the Glider category,
17 hours instruction is required. It's only 10 now.

As a Private Pilot, only 3 hours instruction is required,
AND serves as the Private Pilots BFR.

The prime aspect of the Sport Pilot initiatve is the
'Driver license Medical'. Most Sport Pilots will
come from the ranks of Private Pilots that are unable
to obtain a 3rd class medical.

These guys may have not flown for years. The only requirement
will be to obtain a BFR and be endorsed for make and
model of aircraft. At this point, this INCLUDES Gliders
that fit the S.P definition related to wt, speeds,
px.

There is no requirement for launch endorsment (aero-ground
-self) There IS a 10,000ft max alt. restriction.

The endorsment may be from any CFI-G or a person like
me, a Former Ultralight instuctor, GRANDFATHERED as
a Sport Pilot instructor.

I contend that a 'no-Medical' has Always been available
to those Pilots unable to get the Class 3. And, that
the Self launch Motorgliders curently available provide
much greater privilages and less restrictions than
Sport Pilot and even P.P airplane in some cases.

Chuck

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