Looking for new glider

[Bill Daniels]

I've sold my old glider and now I'm in the market for a new one. This time
I'm going the single-place route.

There seems to be a sweet spot in the price/performance curve when looking
at the older open class gliders like the Open Cirrus, Jantar 2 (A or B), LAK
12 etc... I haven't ruled out 15 meter gliders but I'm never going to
compete in anything more than Sports Class. I just want the performance to
get home from the high country in Colorado.

Any thoughts?

Bill Daniels

[Shawn Curry]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> I've sold my old glider and now I'm in the market for a new one. This time
> I'm going the single-place route.
>
> There seems to be a sweet spot in the price/performance curve when looking
> at the older open class gliders like the Open Cirrus, Jantar 2 (A or B), LAK
> 12 etc... I haven't ruled out 15 meter gliders but I'm never going to
> compete in anything more than Sports Class. I just want the performance to
> get home from the high country in Colorado.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Bill Daniels
>
A one man rigging kit. No seriously. When I was looking earlier this
year my list included these, but the weight of the wings was a big
deterrent (I suspect a Lark is no lightweight though).
A nice trailer, especially if you're getting a big ship.
Mosquitoes, Mini Nimbi, and ASW-19s are in the same price range, they
don't have those long legs though. I got a Mosquito.
There's a discussion along these line on www.GliderForum.com

Cheers,
Shawn

[OscarCVox]

How about Nimbus 2 or ASW17? A lot of glider for the money.Just watch out for a
hernia when trying to rig those 20m one piece wings though

[Bill Daniels]

"OscarCVox" > wrote in message
...
> How about Nimbus 2 or ASW17? A lot of glider for the money.Just watch out
for a
> hernia when trying to rig those 20m one piece wings though

I guess it only depends on how heavy the wing tips are since almost all of
these gliders come with one-man rigging systems - it shouldn't ever be
necessary to lift the roots.

The 4-section wing of the Jartar 2 is an attractive feature though.

Bill Daniels

[BTIZ]

Apis? 13 or 15 meter.. flapped.. and advertised at 36-38/1

BT

"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
...
> I've sold my old glider and now I'm in the market for a new one. This
time
> I'm going the single-place route.
>
> There seems to be a sweet spot in the price/performance curve when looking
> at the older open class gliders like the Open Cirrus, Jantar 2 (A or B),
LAK
> 12 etc... I haven't ruled out 15 meter gliders but I'm never going to
> compete in anything more than Sports Class. I just want the performance
to
> get home from the high country in Colorado.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[--=JJay=--]

U¿ytkownik "Janusz Kesik" > napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
I am afraid it's a different price range than a Jantar 2A/B

Its true :| but what a glider ! :D

Regards


--
--=JJay=--
www.aeroklub.deblin.pl

[--=JJay=--]

U¿ytkownik "Janusz Kesik" > napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
I am afraid it's a different price range than a Jantar 2A/B

SZD 55 is cheaper and great to :)

regards


--
--=JJay=--
www.aeroklub.deblin.pl

[Chris Reed]

I bought an Open Cirrus earlier this year and am very happy with it.

Good points: extremely well-mannered to fly, easy to land, good rate of roll
for 18m (nearly), excellent performance provided you fly slowly enough, good
scratcher and long legs for final glide.

Not so good points (no real bad points): seating is quite upright but with
legs horizontal (fine once you get used to it but a little odd for me to
start with), not easily adjustable for very tall pilots (I'm near the top
limit at 6' 1"), airbrake Hotelier connections are hidden by spar (mine has
Wederkind safeties so this is no problem), early models (including mine)
can't take water, quite heavy wings.

I've dealt with the rigging issue by making a simple wing root dolly for
maneouvring the wing around, and use two trestles to take the weight. No-one
has to take any weight for more than a minute, usually less. Result - all
those who've helped me rig say it's dead easy and very little effort.
Aluminium step ladders make really good trestles.

If you fit in, and like making steady progress without much turning to
thermal, an Open Cirrus would be well worth considering.

"Shawn Curry" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> Bill Daniels wrote:
> > I've sold my old glider and now I'm in the market for a new one. This
time
> > I'm going the single-place route.
> >
> > There seems to be a sweet spot in the price/performance curve when
looking
> > at the older open class gliders like the Open Cirrus, Jantar 2 (A or B),
LAK
> > 12 etc... I haven't ruled out 15 meter gliders but I'm never going to
> > compete in anything more than Sports Class. I just want the performance
to
> > get home from the high country in Colorado.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Bill Daniels
> >
> A one man rigging kit. No seriously. When I was looking earlier this
> year my list included these, but the weight of the wings was a big
> deterrent (I suspect a Lark is no lightweight though).
> A nice trailer, especially if you're getting a big ship.
> Mosquitoes, Mini Nimbi, and ASW-19s are in the same price range, they
> don't have those long legs though. I got a Mosquito.
> There's a discussion along these line on www.GliderForum.com
>
> Cheers,
> Shawn
>

[Janusz Kesik]

Yes, that seems to be a very good choice!
How about the '55' Bill?

Regards,

JK

[BTIZ]

I believe the 13m may classify for the weight limits of the Ultralight.. or
the full 15m (FAI) all light weight materials... but the std 15m I believe
is "glider"

if you are looking for Ultralights, check out the Sparrow Hawk.. American
Made in Oregon

BT

"Steve B" > wrote in message
m...
> The Apis is a clean looking ship from the pictures that I have seen.
> Is it considered and ultralight?
>
> Is there a preference to fly a more substantial machine that has more
> mass and structure for comfort and safety?
>
> How does an ultra light design compare to a german 15 meter design?
>
> Are reynolds numbers better for smaller or larger wings?
>
> I have been quite curious about the Apis as a motorglider (no tow
> plane here on this Island "Kona") as my threshold of pain for money is
> a bit shy of the current ASH 26E / DG 808M / prices... although quite
> beautiful works.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:<%Fz_a.10401$2g.3935@fed1read05>...
> > Apis? 13 or 15 meter.. flapped.. and advertised at 36-38/1
> >
> > BT
> >
> > "Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I've sold my old glider and now I'm in the market for a new one. This
> > time
> > > I'm going the single-place route.
> > >
> > > There seems to be a sweet spot in the price/performance curve when
looking
> > > at the older open class gliders like the Open Cirrus, Jantar 2 (A or
B),
> > LAK
> > > 12 etc... I haven't ruled out 15 meter gliders but I'm never going to
> > > compete in anything more than Sports Class. I just want the
performance
> > to
> > > get home from the high country in Colorado.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > Bill Daniels
> > >

[Eric Greenwell]

In article >,
says...
> The Apis is a clean looking ship from the pictures that I have seen.
> Is it considered and ultralight?

Not in the USA. Take a look at their website: www.apisgliders.com
>
> Is there a preference to fly a more substantial machine that has more
> mass and structure for comfort and safety?

I wouldn't expect the comfort to be any better, just because it's
heavier. Safety is a broader question, but I'm assuming you are asking
about crashworthiness, since you mention structure. Without some
actual crashes, or some careful testing, it's hard to compare such
dissimilar gliders as the Apis and, say, the Ventus or ASW 27.
>
> How does an ultra light design compare to a german 15 meter design?
>
> Are reynolds numbers better for smaller or larger wings?
>
> I have been quite curious about the Apis as a motorglider (no tow
> plane here on this Island "Kona") as my threshold of pain for money is
> a bit shy of the current ASH 26E / DG 808M / prices... although quite
> beautiful works.

Assuming you are in Kona, Hawaii, I'd suggest the Apis, Silent, Russia
AC5M type of motorglider would be well suited to the island, and that
the 18M gliders would be lots more glider than useful. An ASW 24 E
might also be satisfactory - more glider, but less motorglider.
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

[Dave Nadler \YO\]

Very nice Discus for sale. See:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze27w6r/
Unquestionable performance, ease of handling and assembly, and resale.
Best Regards, Dave


"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message
...
> I've sold my old glider and now I'm in the market for a new one. This
time
> I'm going the single-place route.
>
> There seems to be a sweet spot in the price/performance curve when looking
> at the older open class gliders like the Open Cirrus, Jantar 2 (A or B),
LAK
> 12 etc... I haven't ruled out 15 meter gliders but I'm never going to
> compete in anything more than Sports Class. I just want the performance
to
> get home from the high country in Colorado.
>
> Any thoughts?
> Bill Daniels

[Apis Gliders]

In article >,
(Steve B) writes:

>The Apis is a clean looking ship from the pictures that I have seen. Is it
considered and ultralight?>>
No, not in the US. It does meet some European countries UL regulations.
The empty weight of my kit Apis 13 was 300 lbs before I added batteries, radio
etc.

>How does an ultra light design compare to a German 15 meter design?>>
I can't speak for the other "light gliders" but the Apis uses the same high
quality fabrics, resins, fillers and foams that the German manufactures use.
This is a very important point for quality control and reparability.

>I have been quite curious about the Apis as a motorglider (no tow plane here
on this Island "Kona")>>
I'll bet it will fit your needs without emptying your wallet.

Robert Mudd
Apis Sailplanes Inc.
www.apisgliders.com