Accident - Need a trainer ASAP

[[email protected]]

This last week we had a freakish Winter Storm come through Utah while I was out of the country. Winds in excess of 70MPH hit the airport and my SGS-233A pulled it's tiedowns out of the ground and it ended up in a fence, totalled. I have been working with my young son preparing him to solo on his 14th birthday which is the beginning of April. I'm desperately trying to find a replacement, anyone know of any good trainers for sale. Another 233A would be great, an ASK21 would be even better. If you know of anything?

Thanks!
Brian

[WAVEGURU]

Sorry to hear about your loss. And I can't help you with your hunt for a trainer but I would like to know more about your tie downs. What type were they?

Boggs

[Brian Rowser]

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 6:01:22 AM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
> Sorry to hear about your loss. And I can't help you with your hunt for a trainer but I would like to know more about your tie downs. What type were they?
>
> Boggs

There were 3 3' lengths of rebar driven and angled into the ground at each tiedown point.

[Dave Nadler]

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 1:49:47 PM UTC-5, Brian Rowser wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 6:01:22 AM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
>> ...I would like to know more about your tie downs. What type were they?
> There were 3 3' lengths of rebar driven and angled into the ground
> at each tiedown point.

Was the tail on a raised stand to keep the AOA zero?

[WAVEGURU]

I've seen several gliders totaled using this type of tie down over the years. It only works most of the time. I've never seen rebar driven into a hole then filled with concrete fail tho...

Boggs

[WAVEGURU]

Concrete only in a hole is also not adequate...

Boggs

[95PM]

Tampa Bay Soaring Sociaty in Zephyrhills FL has a SGS 2-32 for sale.

[[email protected]]

Brian,
So sorry to hear about losing your 2-33. Would you ever consider joining the Utah Soaring Association with your son? We have 4 Grob's and might be able to help keep the training going. Best of luck whatever you do.

Bruno - B4

[[email protected]]

Anytime the predicted wind is over 25 knots it is essential that both wing tie-downs be used in conjunction with sturdy wing stands on both wing tips! A witness to a ASK-21 that went over on its back in a 90 knot blow, told me the ship was rocking left and right with the main wheel rising off the ground as the wings came level. As one wing rose, the tension on the tie-down cable, forced the other wing down. Sturdy tie-downs keeping the wings firmly on both wing stands will not allow this rocking oscillations. A sturdy wing stand can be made from a 5' step-ladder, legs cut to required height, with a foam pad glued to the top. A trailing edge glove placed over in an area without controls in conjunction with a 2" web strap from the T/E glove, over the leading edge down to a secure tie-down, used with 4-legged wing stands is the best way to secure your ship (IMHO)
JJ

[SoaringXCellence]

What JJ didn't say is that he makes some of the best tie-downs around.

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/misc.htm#Tie-Down_Equipment

Cumulus carries them.

Sorry I can't help you with the training Brian.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 10:32:52 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Anytime the predicted wind is over 25 knots it is essential that both wing tie-downs be used in conjunction with sturdy wing stands on both wing tips! A witness to a ASK-21 that went over on its back in a 90 knot blow, told me the ship was rocking left and right with the main wheel rising off the ground as the wings came level. As one wing rose, the tension on the tie-down cable, forced the other wing down. Sturdy tie-downs keeping the wings firmly on both wing stands will not allow this rocking oscillations. A sturdy wing stand can be made from a 5' step-ladder, legs cut to required height, with a foam pad glued to the top. A trailing edge glove placed over in an area without controls in conjunction with a 2" web strap from the T/E glove, over the leading edge down to a secure tie-down, used with 4-legged wing stands is the best way to secure your ship (IMHO)
> JJ

Our experience(we lost a 2-33 to broken chain) is more is better. We use 2 independent tie downs on each main point, plus one on each tip, and most importantly, a nose tie down. If the nose can keep going up, it is much less likely to blow away.
FWIW
UH

[kirk.stant]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 8:42:32 PM UTC-6, Brian Rowser wrote:
> This last week we had a freakish Winter Storm come through Utah while I was out of the country. Winds in excess of 70MPH hit the airport and my SGS-233A pulled it's tiedowns out of the ground and it ended up in a fence, totalled. I have been working with my young son preparing him to solo on his 14th birthday which is the beginning of April. I'm desperately trying to find a replacement, anyone know of any good trainers for sale. Another 233A would be great, an ASK21 would be even better. If you know of anything?
>
> Thanks!
> Brian
>

Brian,

Our club has a nice 2-33 for sale. I'll contact you directly.

Kirk
66

[[email protected]]

Sandhill Soaring Club, located near Ann Arbor, MI, has a Grob 103 Twin II Acro and possibly a Ka-7 for sale. Please email me directly if you would like to know more about either of these gliders.

Thank you,
Chris Schrader, Treasurer
Sandhill Soaring Club, Inc.
treasurer at sandhillsoaring dot org

[Frank Whiteley]

On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 12:00:42 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> Sandhill Soaring Club, located near Ann Arbor, MI, has a Grob 103 Twin II Acro and possibly a Ka-7 for sale. Please email me directly if you would like to know more about either of these gliders.
>
> Thank you,
> Chris Schrader, Treasurer
> Sandhill Soaring Club, Inc.
> treasurer at sandhillsoaring dot org

There's someone in Illinois on Barnstormers.com looking for a two-seater.

[David Cleveland]

Brian, where are you in Utah?

[[email protected]]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#earth-anchors/=11oe1od

The 15" anchors won't do the job, but the 48" x 6" anchors will survive almost anything as long as the ground in your area is soft enough to be able to screw these in. Very inexpensive.

[Oscar-Hotel-Mike]

Just to add to the above - we lost a 2-33 in a wind storm - flipped on its back and totaled. The wind pulled 4' screw-in earth anchors out of the ground. We now have 5 anchors (nose, wing, wing and two at the tail set at 45 degrees). Most critically, the tail is on a saw horse to keep the winds at zero angle of attack. The two tail anchors prevent the tail from moving sideways off the saw horse. Hindsight is wonderful. Good luck.

[Stephen Damon]

For anchoring permanently look at using Secure Set foam. Yes foam

[Bob Gibbons[_2_]]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 05:14:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

>http://www.mcmaster.com/#earth-anchors/=11oe1od
>
>The 15" anchors won't do the job, but the 48" x 6" anchors will survive almost
>anything as long as the ground in your area is soft enough to be able to screw
>these in. Very inexpensive.

On the off chance that not everyone is aware of the key to screwing in
these ground anchors in hard soil ...

Take a long piece of rebar, about as long as the anchor. Slowly hammer
this into the ground at the selected spot. Alternately hammer, then
withdraw, slowly extending the pilot hole deeper. When the "pilot
hole" is almost as deep as the anchor will eventually go, pour water
down the hole, wait a few minutes, and repeat a few times.

Aim is to saturate the walls of the pilot hole, making insertion of
the screw anchor easy. When the water later evaporates, the anchor
will be firmly locked.

Bob

[Vaughn Simon[_2_]]

On 3/24/2016 3:35 PM, Bob Gibbons wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 05:14:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
>
>> http://www.mcmaster.com/#earth-anchors/=11oe1od
>>
>> The 15" anchors won't do the job, but the 48" x 6" anchors will survive almost
>> anything as long as the ground in your area is soft enough to be able to screw
>> these in. Very inexpensive.
>
> On the off chance that not everyone is aware of the key to screwing in
> these ground anchors in hard soil ...
>
> Take a long piece of rebar, about as long as the anchor. Slowly hammer
> this into the ground at the selected spot. Alternately hammer, then
> withdraw, slowly extending the pilot hole deeper. When the "pilot
> hole" is almost as deep as the anchor will eventually go, pour water
> down the hole, wait a few minutes, and repeat a few times.
>
> Aim is to saturate the walls of the pilot hole, making insertion of
> the screw anchor easy. When the water later evaporates, the anchor
> will be firmly locked.
>
> Bob
>


Manually screwing a sizable screw anchor into the ground is at least a
2-man job. Borrow a long steel bar to use as a lever. Have one person
hold the anchor upright, while the other pulls the lever around in a
circle capstan-style. At some point, it will become hard or even
impossible to turn the anchor. Now have the second person tap the
anchor down into the ground with a sledge, whilst the first person is
trying to turn the bar. In Florida soil we get about 1/4 turn for each
hit of the sledgehammer. Your mileage WILL vary, depending on your soil
conditions.

Vaughn

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

On Thursday, March 24, 2016 at 3:35:21 PM UTC-4, Bob Gibbons wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 05:14:15 -0700 (PDT), mzivley- -hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >http://www.mcmaster.com/#earth-anchors/=11oe1od
> >
> >The 15" anchors won't do the job, but the 48" x 6" anchors will survive almost
> >anything as long as the ground in your area is soft enough to be able to screw
> >these in. Very inexpensive.
>
> On the off chance that not everyone is aware of the key to screwing in
> these ground anchors in hard soil ...
>
> Take a long piece of rebar, about as long as the anchor. Slowly hammer
> this into the ground at the selected spot. Alternately hammer, then
> withdraw, slowly extending the pilot hole deeper. When the "pilot
> hole" is almost as deep as the anchor will eventually go, pour water
> down the hole, wait a few minutes, and repeat a few times.
>
> Aim is to saturate the walls of the pilot hole, making insertion of
> the screw anchor easy. When the water later evaporates, the anchor
> will be firmly locked.
>
> Bob

If you're in the Northeast US (or anywhere there was the end of an ice sheet), you WILL hit ton's of rocks in any hole deeper than ~6"...... say "thanks" to the last ice age.....

Your method may work very well in other locations.....