Dashing downwind [Archive]

Dan Daly[_2_]

February 25th 16, 08:06 PM

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Snyder wrote:
> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 11:35:36 AM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> > Making a run southeast from Sunflower in Kansas. Hoping to launch at 11 central. Follow on SSA Tracker or glideport.aero
>
> Newbie question: Downwind? Is this a one-way trip to maximize ground covered?

Yes. He's flying to maximize distance. He did a 750 km Diplome flight a year or two ago this way ( see write-up at http://soaringcafe.com/2014/03/spring-go-south/ ; actually 844 km ). At 2:50 Eastern time, he's already past 300 km. He's working a band 5-6000, occasionally to 6500' (you see this on the tracker at glideport.aero - the "K" tracker, not "YYY"). About 70 mph/112 kph achieved spped so far - which is very good... probably the Cirrus (first flight in March 1969; very nice, but not state of the art now). Best L/D of 36:1.

Now over 325 km in 2 hrs 53 mins; excellent! Looks like a cross-wind, then turning east for a tailwind at the end of the flight ( https://www.windyty..com/?850h,2016-02-29-18,33.952,-89.187,6 ). Select 5,000' for the wind he's in. You can also see some clouds up ahead (but there are ridges down there to run).

Always on a weekday...

Go Tony!

[email protected]

February 25th 16, 08:12 PM

BobW

February 25th 16, 08:38 PM

On 2/25/2016 1:06 PM, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Snyder wrote:
>> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 11:35:36 AM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
>>> Making a run southeast from Sunflower in Kansas. Hoping to launch at 11
>>> central. Follow on SSA Tracker or glideport.aero
>>
>> Newbie question: Downwind? Is this a one-way trip to maximize ground
>> covered?
>
> Yes. He's flying to maximize distance. He did a 750 km Diplome flight a
> year or two ago this way ( see write-up at
> http://soaringcafe.com/2014/03/spring-go-south/ ; actually 844 km ). <Snip...>

Chris,

You'll better understand the allure of what's nowadays often,
generally-fondly, referred to as "a vulgar downwind dash" once you've a bit
more experience under your belt...say, when you begin seriously considering
flying your Silver Distance badge leg in your club's 1-26! Based on last year,
Tony's probably trying for a seashore landing this year, or maybe the Caymans.

All levity aside, many (most?) soaring pilots will admit to - at one time or
another - seriously daydreaming of simply attempting to soar as far in a
single (meaning, downwind) direction as a decent day will allow. It's a
"freedom of flight" thing harking back to the early days of the sport of
soaring when the whole idea of powerless flight was new, and penetrating into
the wind was more a concept than a reasonable possibility, given the ships of
the day. See anything written by Philip Wills...

In U.S. latitudes, unstable air trailing springly cold fronts combined with
typically strong northerly winds behind the front, make for Real Temptation,
depending upon one's starting geographical location. Tony doesn't merely dream
about it, though!

Bob W.

February 25th 16, 09:53 PM

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 2:06:36 PM UTC-6, Dan Daly wrote:
> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 2:38:49 PM UTC-5, Chris Snyder wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 11:35:36 AM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> > > Making a run southeast from Sunflower in Kansas. Hoping to launch at 11 central. Follow on SSA Tracker or glideport.aero
> >
> > Newbie question: Downwind? Is this a one-way trip to maximize ground covered?
>
> Yes. He's flying to maximize distance. He did a 750 km Diplome flight a year or two ago this way ( see write-up at http://soaringcafe.com/2014/03/spring-go-south/ ; actually 844 km ). At 2:50 Eastern time, he's already past 300 km. He's working a band 5-6000, occasionally to 6500' (you see this on the tracker at glideport.aero - the "K" tracker, not "YYY"). About 70 mph/112 kph achieved spped so far - which is very good... probably the Cirrus (first flight in March 1969; very nice, but not state of the art now). Best L/D of 36:1.
>
> Now over 325 km in 2 hrs 53 mins; excellent! Looks like a cross-wind, then turning east for a tailwind at the end of the flight ( https://www.windyty.com/?850h,2016-02-29-18,33.952,-89.187,6 ). Select 5,000' for the wind he's in. You can also see some clouds up ahead (but there are ridges down there to run).
>
> Always on a weekday...
>
> Go Tony!

Hmm, the wind has him coming straight towards me. Maybe I need to get the guest bedroom ready...

Tony[_5_]

February 25th 16, 10:25 PM

Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent a little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40 miles there.

Got back up to.cloudbase at Talihina. Wind had turned a bit westerly aloft and i wasnt sure about the velocity on the ground so I didn't drop down to the ridges.

Decided to head crosswind to Mena. Nice airport. FBO, and HEAT. My toes are cold!!

Still some nice cu up there but I could see the southern end of the cu field. Did I mention.my toes were cold.

Diamond Distance in February! Woot!

Tony[_5_]

February 25th 16, 10:47 PM

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=446477652

Dan Daly[_2_]

February 25th 16, 10:54 PM

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:47:23 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=446477652

"If your feet are cold, wear a bigger hat".

Nice flight, Tony. Beats watching it snow...

Dan

[email protected]

February 26th 16, 01:22 AM

Congrads tony, as a 1-26 flyer where theres nothing volger about running downwind lol its great to see someone else making a free run. You modern glass winnys need to buck up and make the run!
Dan 1-26 #225

WaltWX[_2_]

February 26th 16, 02:39 AM

Tony,

Congratulations on a fine winter flight! Will be interested in hearing the story ... and comparison between TopMeteo, DrJack and XCSkies forecasts if you get to it.

Walt Rogers WX

Chris Snyder

February 26th 16, 01:36 PM

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent a little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40 miles there.

Truly amazing! That's farther than I ever flew in a POWERED airplane.

Thank you all for explaining. There's a lot to learn in this sport!

We're forecast to get 5k' in Central Virginia on Saturday. Maybe I should give this "downwind dash" a try in the club 2-33. :D

Tony[_5_]

February 26th 16, 05:21 PM

Chris,

My personal best is 525 miles. That may be farther than I've ever flown in a powered aircraft too. The US National free distance record is just a hair over 900 miles. Something to strive for :)

Tony[_5_]

February 26th 16, 05:25 PM

Walt,

TopeMeteo was showing the cu field (and higher PFD associated with that to be further east. In fact until I saw the cu develop at the airport I was planning to angle North of Tulsa towards Ft Smaith Arkansas based in that forecast.

The Dr. Jack RAP was also showing that I would be in dry air. The NAM however seems to have reflected the cu reality the best.

Forecasting is tricky as you know. I did not spend a lot of time looking at the forecast due to time constraints. I was pretty busy the day before the flight getting the little things in order like charging batteries and figuring out where I put the total energy tube! Due to the early start we had a really early departure time from home so I only spent 15 minutes or so scanning the forecasts in the morning. By that point I already had everything in place to make the flight so I would just fly whatever weather presented itself.

BobW

February 27th 16, 12:41 AM

On 2/26/2016 6:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
>> Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent a
>> little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40 miles
>> there.
>
>
> Truly amazing! That's farther than I ever flew in a POWERED airplane.
>
> Thank you all for explaining. There's a lot to learn in this sport!
>
> We're forecast to get 5k' in Central Virginia on Saturday. Maybe I should
> give this "downwind dash" a try in the club 2-33. :D
>

Here, now - don't be dissing the 2-33! The first guy in the world to ever soar
farther than 1000km, got his Gold distance and Diamond goal in the 2-33's
predecessor, the 2-22. (Exceeded 200 miles! Vulgar downwind dash! A claimed
17:1 [on a good day?].) Guy by the name of Al Parker - you can read all about
some of his more major exploits in "Soaring" mag's archives (great resource
for SSA members!). :)

Bob W.

Tony[_5_]

February 27th 16, 03:02 AM

Ya, Al Parker was a STUD!

I suppose i should mention that I flew this flight with a Bumper MkIV yaw string and without it I would've never known what direction inwas pointed.

Chris Snyder

February 27th 16, 03:58 AM

On Friday, February 26, 2016 at 7:41:16 PM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
> On 2/26/2016 6:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> >> Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent a
> >> little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40 miles
> >> there.
> >
> >
> > Truly amazing! That's farther than I ever flew in a POWERED airplane.
> >
> > Thank you all for explaining. There's a lot to learn in this sport!
> >
> > We're forecast to get 5k' in Central Virginia on Saturday. Maybe I should
> > give this "downwind dash" a try in the club 2-33. :D
> >
>
> Here, now - don't be dissing the 2-33! The first guy in the world to ever soar
> farther than 1000km, got his Gold distance and Diamond goal in the 2-33's
> predecessor, the 2-22. (Exceeded 200 miles! Vulgar downwind dash! A claimed
> 17:1 [on a good day?].) Guy by the name of Al Parker - you can read all about
> some of his more major exploits in "Soaring" mag's archives (great resource
> for SSA members!). :)
>
> Bob W.

Wow, that does deserve respect! I meant no slight to the venerable 2-33. I was however being a little tongue-in-cheek since it seems like it could be a beast to retrieve and I'm still only a solo student.

The TopMetro forecast is still looking good for tomorrow, so fingers crossed that I can find some lift.

Soartech

February 27th 16, 04:03 PM

On Friday, February 26, 2016 at 7:41:16 PM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
> On 2/26/2016 6:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> > On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> >> Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent a
> >> little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40 miles
> >> there.
> >
> >
> > Truly amazing! That's farther than I ever flew in a POWERED airplane.
> >
> > Thank you all for explaining. There's a lot to learn in this sport!
> >
> > We're forecast to get 5k' in Central Virginia on Saturday. Maybe I should
> > give this "downwind dash" a try in the club 2-33. :D
> >
>
> Here, now - don't be dissing the 2-33! The first guy in the world to ever soar
> farther than 1000km, got his Gold distance and Diamond goal in the 2-33's
> predecessor, the 2-22. (Exceeded 200 miles! Vulgar downwind dash! A claimed
> 17:1 [on a good day?].) Guy by the name of Al Parker - you can read all about
> some of his more major exploits in "Soaring" mag's archives (great resource
> for SSA members!). :)
>
> Bob W.

17 to 1 ? Now there are hang glider performance levels that equal that! And much easier assembly and transport!

Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)

February 27th 16, 06:50 PM

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 11:03:12 AM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
> On Friday, February 26, 2016 at 7:41:16 PM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
> > On 2/26/2016 6:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
> > >> Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent a
> > >> little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40 miles
> > >> there.
> > >
> > >
> > > Truly amazing! That's farther than I ever flew in a POWERED airplane.
> > >
> > > Thank you all for explaining. There's a lot to learn in this sport!
> > >
> > > We're forecast to get 5k' in Central Virginia on Saturday. Maybe I should
> > > give this "downwind dash" a try in the club 2-33. :D
> > >
> >
> > Here, now - don't be dissing the 2-33! The first guy in the world to ever soar
> > farther than 1000km, got his Gold distance and Diamond goal in the 2-33's
> > predecessor, the 2-22. (Exceeded 200 miles! Vulgar downwind dash! A claimed
> > 17:1 [on a good day?].) Guy by the name of Al Parker - you can read all about
> > some of his more major exploits in "Soaring" mag's archives (great resource
> > for SSA members!). :)
> >
> > Bob W.
>
> 17 to 1 ? Now there are hang glider performance levels that equal that! And much easier assembly and transport!

It is called a "SGU-2-22" for a reason, the "U" is for utility (based on L/D) vs. a SGS-2-33 which has the 2nd "S" for sailplane (also based on L/D).

IIRC, the split was 20:1, below that it's a "U", above that it's a "S".

And yes, modern "lots of things" do better than 17:1. Although "powered aircraft" don't usually get that far (engine off glide).

[old trivia.....]

BobW

February 28th 16, 02:07 AM

On 2/26/2016 8:58 PM, Chris Snyder wrote:
> On Friday, February 26, 2016 at 7:41:16 PM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
>> On 2/26/2016 6:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
>>>> Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent
>>>> a little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40
>>>> miles there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Truly amazing! That's farther than I ever flew in a POWERED airplane.
>>>
>>> Thank you all for explaining. There's a lot to learn in this sport!
>>>
>>> We're forecast to get 5k' in Central Virginia on Saturday. Maybe I
>>> should give this "downwind dash" a try in the club 2-33. :D
>>>
>>
>> Here, now - don't be dissing the 2-33! The first guy in the world to ever
>> soar farther than 1000km, got his Gold distance and Diamond goal in the
>> 2-33's predecessor, the 2-22. (Exceeded 200 miles! Vulgar downwind dash!
>> A claimed 17:1 [on a good day?].) Guy by the name of Al Parker - you can
>> read all about some of his more major exploits in "Soaring" mag's
>> archives (great resource for SSA members!). :)
>>
>> Bob W.
>
> Wow, that does deserve respect! I meant no slight to the venerable 2-33.
> I was however being a little tongue-in-cheek since it seems like it could
> be a beast to retrieve and I'm still only a solo student.
>
> The TopMetro forecast is still looking good for tomorrow, so fingers
> crossed that I can find some lift.
>
"Roger that," on the tongue-in-cheek bit, and, "Likewise, of course." And
having once "Schweizer open-trailer retrieved" a 2-33 landed out by someone at
your present stage of things, it wasn't so bad! It did require the "properly
requisite number of helpers" to avoid being dangerous to both participants and
the ship, though! More Great Fun...when done in suitable moderation! Like a
1-26, but (if possible) more so, from a parts-count perspective. :)

Bob W.

BobW

February 28th 16, 02:13 AM

On 2/27/2016 9:03 AM, Soartech wrote:
> On Friday, February 26, 2016 at 7:41:16 PM UTC-5, BobW wrote:
>> On 2/26/2016 6:36 AM, Chris Snyder wrote:
>>> On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 5:25:33 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
>>>> Made it to declared goal of Talihina, OK with not much trouble. Spent
>>>> a little more time below 5500 msl than I'd have liked in the last 40
>>>> miles there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Truly amazing! That's farther than I ever flew in a POWERED airplane.
>>>
>>> Thank you all for explaining. There's a lot to learn in this sport!
>>>
>>> We're forecast to get 5k' in Central Virginia on Saturday. Maybe I
>>> should give this "downwind dash" a try in the club 2-33. :D
>>>
>>
>> Here, now - don't be dissing the 2-33! The first guy in the world to ever
>> soar farther than 1000km, got his Gold distance and Diamond goal in the
>> 2-33's predecessor, the 2-22. (Exceeded 200 miles! Vulgar downwind dash!
>> A claimed 17:1 [on a good day?].) Guy by the name of Al Parker - you can
>> read all about some of his more major exploits in "Soaring" mag's
>> archives (great resource for SSA members!). :)
>>
>> Bob W.
>
> 17 to 1 ? Now there are hang glider performance levels that equal that! And
> much easier assembly and transport!
>

Ah, yes...but undoubtedly lacking in cachet, compared to Schweizer's
often-underloved progeny! (Hey! The DC-3 remains beloved for many of the same
reasons 2-33s are dissed: docile; darned near indestructible; a touch on the
bulbous and homely side; etc. What's wrong with this picture?!? :) )

Bob W.

[email protected]

February 29th 16, 07:46 PM

Yes, Al Parker's 300K flight in a Schweizer 2-22 remains a remarkable achievement, even more so if--like me--you spent a fair amount of your early hours in one of them. For years, I'd hop out of our 201 Libelle or LS-3 and into a 2-22 for a BFR and be almost panic-stricken to realize how much force it took sawing away on the stick to fly it and how fast it dropped after we got off tow. :) Memories.

Chip Bearden

[email protected]

February 29th 16, 10:29 PM

What was that famos 2-22 quote "the 2-22 comes down fast right up till you want it to land"! I aero towed one xc to relocate it and after releasing at 5000 agl 10 miles from the gliderport, and I beat the tow plane down without spoilers :)

Tony[_5_]

March 6th 16, 06:13 PM

Flight report up on my SSA Member Blog:

http://www.ssa.org/MyHome.asp?mbr=8292935490&show=blog&id=4120

howard banks

March 6th 16, 08:59 PM

Cliff, I thought you were going to say you landed two miles short ...

On Thursday, February 25, 2016 at 9:35:36 AM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> Making a run southeast from Sunflower in Kansas. Hoping to launch at 11 central. Follow on SSA Tracker or glideport.aero

Papa3[_2_]

March 7th 16, 01:49 AM

I learned in an SGU 2-22E, the last one ever built by the factory. According to club lore, this glider was flown by Steven Sliwa from Harris Hill to Princeton, NJ, a distance of over 250K. Some real tiger country crossing Scranton and down through the Pocono Mountains! Hopefully someone reading this can confirm.

P3

Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)

March 7th 16, 02:20 AM

On Sunday, March 6, 2016 at 8:49:41 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:
> I learned in an SGU 2-22E, the last one ever built by the factory. According to club lore, this glider was flown by Steven Sliwa from Harris Hill to Princeton, NJ, a distance of over 250K. Some real tiger country crossing Scranton and down through the Pocono Mountains! Hopefully someone reading this can confirm.
>
> P3

Can't say I've heard that one, but also won't dispute it.

I can say I was on the glider end (SGS-1-26) aero-towing from Middletown, NY (06N) to HHSC for the "snowbird" (Thanksgiving weekend) one year, and then back a few days later.
Really NOT a lot of fun with low clouds, blowing and low L/D. An awful lot of trees for a big chunk on the way......
Actually, ask some of us who we saw when we landed at Blue Swan on the way up!!!
ROTFLMAO.....

And yes, I knew the Sliwa family......

[email protected]

March 12th 16, 04:33 PM

Early last week I made a semi down wind run in my 1-26 over the swamps and timbers of south AL. Wanted gold distance but got s resl late start, made 220km, not bad for fairly low level flying.
Dan 1-26 #225

Tony[_5_]

March 12th 16, 04:58 PM

On Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 10:33:48 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> Early last week I made a semi down wind run in my 1-26 over the swamps and timbers of south AL. Wanted gold distance but got s resl late start, made 220km, not bad for fairly low level flying.
> Dan 1-26 #225

Dan,

Did you happen to post on the OLC? I'd like to see the trace! 220km is pretty respectable for a 1-26 this time of year. Another month or so and the days will be a LOT longer!

[email protected]

March 12th 16, 05:48 PM

[email protected]

March 12th 16, 05:51 PM

Hi Tony
Yes my flight is oosted to the olc, its in the club section but its easier to get to it thru the 1-26 assoc website, then ounch the online contest tab, it will take you right there.
Dan 1-26 #225

[email protected]

March 12th 16, 06:44 PM

Tony I am going to be up your way next month. I fly dusters out near minot ND and will be bringing the 1-26 up there with me. Last year while spraying up there I consistently saw beautifull rows of cu's streeting to the SE. Although the bases were never ever too high, the streeting and predominence of active clouds made me drool to make a downwind run. In addition, the plethora of fields to land in was a real joy to see.
Dan 1-26 #225

Jock Proudfoot

March 12th 16, 07:23 PM

At 16:58 12 March 2016, Tony wrote:
>On Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 10:33:48 AM UTC-6,
wrote:

>> Early last week I made a semi down wind run in my 1-26
over the swamps and timbers of south AL. Wanted gold distance
but got s resl late start, made 220km, not bad for fairly low level
flying.
>> Dan 1-26 #225

>Did you happen to post on the OLC? I'd like to see the trace!
220km is pretty respectable for a 1-26 this time of year. Another
month or so and the days will be a LOT longer!>

OLC http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-
2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=1452784263

Daniel Nezgoda wrote - Fairly weak and rough day, with the
wind tearing up the thermals, average around 300fpm but only
up to about 4200ft and very narrow/choppy below 1500ft so it
was work. Conditions were soarable early, by 10:30 a guy could
have crept along albit low, but I could'nt get a tow pilot to come
out till around 11:45 and finally got out on course by noon. I was
gonna have to push pretty aggressively to make the distance. I
was shooting for gold distance north of Birmingham but condx
started to deteriorate by about 3:00pm, with high thick cirrus
shutting things down. I had to stay as high as possible the last
45 minutes as the lift was so broken below 1500ft that to fall
down there would have been a hole taking forever to climb out
of. All I can say is southern Alabama sure has a whole lot of
pine forest, as I worked over many areas of 5 to 11 miles solid
pine and scrub pine forest. Does'nt make one feel too relaxed
flying a 1-26 at 2,000 LOL. End of flight I diverted due east to
land at a little private strip that looked workable on the
sectional. A very long wait for my crew as to get up into this
country takes all single lane roads, finally got home and to bed
by 1AM.

GREAT FLIGHT - Cheers ...Jock