Standard Class Natl's. low turnout?

[Burt Compton]

Any ideas as to why the very low number of contestants (12) at the recent
Standard Class National Soaring Contest in California?

John Byrd & Burt Compton
Marfa Gliders, west Texas
www.FLYGLIDERS.com

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, Burt Compton wrote:

> Any ideas as to why the very low number
> of contestants (12) at the recent
> Standard Class National Soaring Contest
> in California?

That puzzled me, too. It was a fun contest to crew
at, but I was sort of disappointed that more contestants
didn't show up to fill out the grid. Here are my thoughts
on the topic, in no particular order:

I believe that, with only a couple or three exceptions,
everyone who had a good shot at winning it showed up,
so the low turnout didn't affect the standings much
at all. Regulars of r.a.s are invited to argue among
themselves who the exceptions are.

To a substantial degree, competition soaring is driven
by disposable income, and to some extent disposable
income from investments. Right now, the economy is
a bit soft, and many pilots who depend on their stock
portfolios to underwrite their contest campaigns are
feeling the pinch.

Looking at the calendar, I see that the Standards was
the last Nationals on the 2003 docket. It could be
that everyone was just 'Nationaled-out' by the time
the standards came around. What with competition from
15-Meter, 18-Meter, Sports, and Big Sports (formerly
Open) classes, it could be that there is just a glut
of National slots.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

[Ian Cant]

If a non-competitor may speak from utter ignorance, here are some =
thoughts.

Perhaps it really is the economy - has this become a sport for the =
wealthied only ?

Perhaps all those who might win were really there - the good ol' boys =
successfully self-seeded themselves ?

Perhaps the same pool of racing pilots all fly in all classes and really =
were exhausted when the last class came along. Does nobody fly in a =
single class any more ? If that is the case, why not reduce all the =
classes to one ?

Or perhaps the racing part of the sport is simply not attractive enough =
to enough people. Should the Rules Committee consider this aspect ?

Out of interest, what is the trend in participant numbers in all the =
classes over the last five or ten years ? One event is not necessarily =
an indicator of anything.

Ian

[chris]

I was wondering that too. Maybe it is just because the economy in
California /west is weak so the locals did not show up much and few
people wanted to drive that far. I say this because here in the east
we have been oversubscribed on some races. The Regional in Perry SC
was at 65 contestant, bigger than many nationals, and then the GTA
race we had there was ~27 contestants [and closer to 40 on the weekend
that got rained out].

So it is odd to me that regionals are doing well and nationals poorly.

Maybe the Standard class is just getting weak. At some races the
standard class seems less competitive than 15m or Sports. Often Std
class seems more like a social team flying cub. I've seen several
races where a old generation glass glider flown unballasted is much
faster than the newest generation std class full of ballast with
experienced pilots.

Chris

[Peter Pfortner]

Standard class is the most competitive class of all!
It is almost a one design class (D2 and LS8), both gliders are so close in
performance that pilot skill is the only factor that determines your place
on the score sheet.
oops.... there is also a 28 too, sorry LX

So why did I not show up at the nats.? - pretty simple CA is too far away
and I am sure this is true for a lot of East Coasters. With a limited time
off work, who can waste 4 days of driving each way??

Why is Perry so successful? The same reason why New Castle is sold out every
year - hospitality and a reasonable driving distance for us on the east
coast.

For the record: Hobbs last year had 40 competitors, Mifflin, the year before
had 48 competitors, with a waiting list! Location, Location, Location!!!!!!

I believe that we have to rethink the set up of our national contests. Would
it be possible to have an eastern and western championship every year and a
national championship every two years somewhere in the middle of the
country?

Just some food for thought.

Peter Pförtner (PF LS8)
PS: See y'all in New Castle



"chris" > wrote in message
...
> I was wondering that too. Maybe it is just because the economy in
> California /west is weak so the locals did not show up much and few
> people wanted to drive that far. I say this because here in the east
> we have been oversubscribed on some races. The Regional in Perry SC
> was at 65 contestant, bigger than many nationals, and then the GTA
> race we had there was ~27 contestants [and closer to 40 on the weekend
> that got rained out].
>
> So it is odd to me that regionals are doing well and nationals poorly.
>
> Maybe the Standard class is just getting weak. At some races the
> standard class seems less competitive than 15m or Sports. Often Std
> class seems more like a social team flying cub. I've seen several
> races where a old generation glass glider flown unballasted is much
> faster than the newest generation std class full of ballast with
> experienced pilots.
>
> Chris

[Andy Durbin]

(Burt Compton) wrote in message >...
> Any ideas as to why the very low number of contestants (12) at the recent
> Standard Class National Soaring Contest in California?
>
> John Byrd & Burt Compton
> Marfa Gliders, west Texas
> www.FLYGLIDERS.com

For some pilots it conflicted with the Word Championships. For me, too
far to travel, uncertain work commitments, and no experience of the
site. I decided to fly Reg 9 and Reg 10 but Reg 10 was canx.

Standard class is a very active in USA and I expect you'll see 50 plus
gliders at Hobbs next year.


Andy (ASW-28 GY)

[RWEpp]

For the record: Standard class Nationals have had 40+ pilots every year for the
last five that I can recall. Last time they were at Uvalde, I believe that
there were 65. The number at Mifflin was restricted. As far as being
competetive is concerned; the top 15 meter pilots usually fly in the Standard
Class Nationals and vice versa. I generally fly both Nationals and don't
detect any difference in the level of competition. (It's funny that some of
the people who believe that there is a difference don't fly in both and some of
you don't fly in either Nationals).
As for the contest this year at Montague: It was really a great experience
in part because it was small contest. We had no pre-start gaggles. The
largest gaggles on course that I encountered was two other gliders (seperated
by 500 ft +) and these gaggles were rare. The flying site was spectactular
with tasks over the mountains, valleys and high deserts. We used ridge, wave,
thermal and shear line lift. Flew the sides of Mt Shasta and over the top of
Crater lake. I appologize if I mis quote Doug Jacobs, but I believe that he
said it was the most enjoyable contest he has ever flown. Ditto for me, again
in part because of the small group and the regional contest atmoshpere. You
should have been there.

[Kilo Charlie]

I honestly don't think that this is quite as complicated as some might
believe. The school year begins very early now (mid August for most) and so
many folks with school-aged children and/or teacher wives/crew (like myself)
decided not to go because of that. It was simply too late in the summer. A
snowball effect occurs then with other pilots seeing that there are not many
signed up so decide not to go themselves for various reasons related to this
(comraderie, level of competition). Even though it was super flying this
year, looking back over the past few years of contests at Montague there
were a fair number of landout days which makes going "crewless" a bit more
of a challenge too. In retrospect though I really wish I had gone since it
turned out to be some great flying!

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

[Chris OCallaghan]

Bob is correct. Best soaring I have ever experienced. According to the
locals, the weather was a bit off, but this made the tactical
challenge of terrain even more interesting. Biggest problem, keeping
your mind on racing while enjoying the scenery or savoring the
intimidation of big mountains and long glides to landable fields. I
would gladly return for another nationals... all the better if no more
than one or two dozen others are willing to come. This Std Nats was
just plain fun, and not just for the extraordinary flying.

During the regionals the week before, like Bob, I found myself on the
side of Mt. Shasta, with 4,000 feet of mountain below me and 7,000
feet above. A slow climb took me off the south face lava beds, over
the NE saddle, and up the East face glacier, always within several
hundred feet of trees, rocks, and the glacier's house-sized seracs,
trimmed in emerald and blue. That one climb was worth the entire round
trip. A memory I will treasure. I could fill a novella with the images
and impressions I caught during three weeks of flying.

There are better "pure" racing sites... Hobbs, Uvalde, Tonopah.
Perhaps this disuaded some. But since only one guy gets to win, isn't
it worthwhile to come away with your own set of trophies, regardless
of where you place? Strong lift, dependable cloud streets... those are
nice, but watching the world unfold as you climb your way out of a box
canyon, revealing snowcapped peaks, cinder cones, stoney monoliths
projecting hundreds of feet above the pines, snow-fed lakes improbably
perched on steep slopes, lush valleys...

An extraordinary place.

OC

(RWEpp) wrote in message >...
> For the record: Standard class Nationals have had 40+ pilots every year for the
> last five that I can recall. Last time they were at Uvalde, I believe that
> there were 65. The number at Mifflin was restricted. As far as being
> competetive is concerned; the top 15 meter pilots usually fly in the Standard
> Class Nationals and vice versa. I generally fly both Nationals and don't
> detect any difference in the level of competition. (It's funny that some of
> the people who believe that there is a difference don't fly in both and some of
> you don't fly in either Nationals).
> As for the contest this year at Montague: It was really a great experience
> in part because it was small contest. We had no pre-start gaggles. The
> largest gaggles on course that I encountered was two other gliders (seperated
> by 500 ft +) and these gaggles were rare. The flying site was spectactular
> with tasks over the mountains, valleys and high deserts. We used ridge, wave,
> thermal and shear line lift. Flew the sides of Mt Shasta and over the top of
> Crater lake. I appologize if I mis quote Doug Jacobs, but I believe that he
> said it was the most enjoyable contest he has ever flown. Ditto for me, again
> in part because of the small group and the regional contest atmoshpere. You
> should have been there.

[JJ Sinclair]

I believe the low turn out at Montague standard nationals can be explained.
First off, most of our top pilots were at the worlds. At least 2 of them would
have made Montague, had they not been otherwise engaged. Then we had the race
to Kitty Hawk this year. At least 2 more would have come if they hadn't spent
their discretionary time and money on the 30 day Kitty Hawk race. Two local
pilots said they were coming, but had to drop out due to work demands. I
remember work, although it is becoming a distant memory. Then we would have
picked up a couple more if the 15 meter and standard nationals were held back
to back. I spoke to Charlie Light about this and he agrees (Charlie's on the
sight selection committee) Throw in the long drive for most and the start of
school and you get 12 instead of the 25 I figured would show.

Those who couldn't make it, missed ane hell of a great race. Nine days of great
soaring. A cut-off low just sat off the coast for the whole contest period and
gave us unstable air and 10 to 25 knots southwest wind every day. On most days
we chose between thermal, slope, wave and occasionally shear line lift. The
trick was to choose the best source of lift for each particular part of the
task. On the Crater Lake task, Bob Epp and I worked a wave to 15 thousand. We
thought we had it made until we checked the new wind, 50 knots of direct
headwind as we tried to go south again. The wave givith and it taketh away.

I thoroughly enjoyed the contest, even though I placed 8th out of the 12
contestants. That's about par for me, my soaring fortunes seem to have peeked
at the regional lavel. I was particularly happy with the performance of the
Genesis 2. I couldn't see a teaspoon full of difference between it and the
Discus 2 or the LS-8. I was able to win a day with my Genesis. I hate to admit
it, but that was my first day win in a nationals in something like 25 years
that I have been racing these glass toys.

In the past, Montague has been guilty of poor tasking that resulted in massive
land-outs. Charlie and Gary worked hard to prevent any reoccurrence of this. On
most days, Charlie could be heard working with his advisers to drop un-doable
tasks and come up with a workable plan. Montague has bid the 15 meter nationals
for 2005, come check it out, if we get the bid.
JJ Sinclair

[Slingsby]

(JJ Sinclair) wrote in message >...

> I thoroughly enjoyed the contest, even though I placed 8th out of the 12
> contestants. That's about par for me, my soaring fortunes seem to have peeked
> at the regional lavel. I was particularly happy with the performance of the
> Genesis 2. I couldn't see a teaspoon full of difference between it and the
> Discus 2 or the LS-8. I was able to win a day with my Genesis. I hate to admit it, but that was my first day win in a nationals in something like 25 years that I have been racing these glass toys.
> JJ Sinclair
************************************************** *****************************
There is much more than a teaspoon full of difference. The Genesis 2
is a much better researched, designed, and manufactured glider than
the Discus 2 or LS-8. (or ASW-28) The Genesis 2 has an enormous
cockpit which can easily and COMFORTABLY fit a 6'5", 242Lb pilot.
Small people also fit. It has two layers of Kevlar plus carbon fiber
in the entire cockpit, not a thin strip of carbon on either side for
stiffening. The wing spars are made from Graphlite Rod, not rovings,
and the spar design failed in testing at 19g. (assuming a 260Lb. pilot
and 50Lb. of equipment) Most other designs fail at 10 to 12g when they
use enough glue. The Genesis 2 uses the same Cleveland wheel and brake
that Cessna uses on the 150; overkill for sure, but then JJs' Genesis
showed that the design could be ground looped around a metal post
violently enough to tear off 6 feet of the left wing WITHOUT snapping
the tail boom and/or destroying the control linkages in the tail.