New Student Advice

[Reuben Bakker]

I'm beginning my soaring journey. Have visited the gliderport twice (Bermuda High Soaring in Jefferson, South Carolina). Supposed to go up this Saturday for the first time if the weather cooperates.

I did ground school and a few hours in a 172 about 6 years ago, and I've been up in a glider once about 15 years ago. I'm 35 now. Aviation has always been a passion of mine but life has kept me busy and I haven't been able to fulfill my dreams... Hoping to change that now. Goal is to get my glider license and become the best pilot I can be, continuing on to powered planes and hopefully a commercial rating (and beyond). The more I learn about gliders though the more I can see sticking with it long term, as well as the many benefits of learning to fly via this route.

Just wanted to say hi, and if you have any advice or things you wish you had known when you were starting out, let me know!

[[email protected]]

Go to the field every weekend and fly 2-3 flights per weekend if possible. Doing this will allow you to keep your skills up between lessons, create the muscle memory, and give you much quicker results. Only doing 1 or 2 flights per month will at least double the time it takes to solo.

Good luck!

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 9:28:21 AM UTC-5, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> I'm beginning my soaring journey. Have visited the gliderport twice (Bermuda High Soaring in Jefferson, South Carolina). Supposed to go up this Saturday for the first time if the weather cooperates.
>
> I did ground school and a few hours in a 172 about 6 years ago, and I've been up in a glider once about 15 years ago. I'm 35 now. Aviation has always been a passion of mine but life has kept me busy and I haven't been able to fulfill my dreams... Hoping to change that now. Goal is to get my glider license and become the best pilot I can be, continuing on to powered planes and hopefully a commercial rating (and beyond). The more I learn about gliders though the more I can see sticking with it long term, as well as the many benefits of learning to fly via this route.
>
> Just wanted to say hi, and if you have any advice or things you wish you had known when you were starting out, let me know!

[[email protected]]

I should have said, Only doing 1 or 2 flights per month will at least double the *number of flights* it will take to solo.

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 9:34:00 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Go to the field every weekend and fly 2-3 flights per weekend if possible.. Doing this will allow you to keep your skills up between lessons, create the muscle memory, and give you much quicker results. Only doing 1 or 2 flights per month will at least double the time it takes to solo.
>
> Good luck!
>
> On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 9:28:21 AM UTC-5, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> > I'm beginning my soaring journey. Have visited the gliderport twice (Bermuda High Soaring in Jefferson, South Carolina). Supposed to go up this Saturday for the first time if the weather cooperates.
> >
> > I did ground school and a few hours in a 172 about 6 years ago, and I've been up in a glider once about 15 years ago. I'm 35 now. Aviation has always been a passion of mine but life has kept me busy and I haven't been able to fulfill my dreams... Hoping to change that now. Goal is to get my glider license and become the best pilot I can be, continuing on to powered planes and hopefully a commercial rating (and beyond). The more I learn about gliders though the more I can see sticking with it long term, as well as the many benefits of learning to fly via this route.
> >
> > Just wanted to say hi, and if you have any advice or things you wish you had known when you were starting out, let me know!

[Bruce Hoult]

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 5:28:21 PM UTC+3, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> Just wanted to say hi, and if you have any advice or things you wish you had known when you were starting out, let me know!

If they'll let you, do your training in the Duo Discus, not the 2-33. In reality, it's not any harder to fly, and it's far more representative of other gliders you'll fly later. If you learn in the 2-33 then you'll have a big conversion process later.

Even if it costs more per hour, your training flights will be a lot longer on average, so you'll spend less on the tow plane.

For about the last ten years my club has done all training in DG1000, which is the direct competitor to the Duo Discus. The DG has a sprung undercarriage which makes it more tolerant of bad student landings, but there's very little difference other than that. (we also use the DG in 18m wingspan configuration vs the fixed 20m for the Duo, but that's not a huge deal) Before the DG, we used late 70's Grob Twin Astirs, which are also a big heavy fiberglass glider.

Get a copy of Condor Soaring simulator and use it with a gaming joystick such as Thrustmaster Top Gun Fox 2 Pro or Logitech Extreme 3D. Set the twist to be rudder, the throttle lever on the base as airbrakes, and a pair of buttons on the top of the stick under your thumb as elevator trim up/down. I also like to make left and right on the hat be "glance" left and right.

This sim can vastly decrease the amount of expensive air time needed to understand from basic concepts of the aerotow, flght and landing right up to cross country flying. Spend some early time with an experienced glider pilot to guide you into good habits.

Unfortunately this program is Windows only, but it runs fine in virtual machines such as the free VMWare Player (I use this), and I believe also in CodeWeavers CrossOver.

[Paul Agnew]

I'm intrigued by the computer simulator-based training program being developed on www.gliderCFI.com . The presentation at the SSA convention was very encourging as they're figuring out how to use Condor to teach basic glider skills with a very organized and logical syllabus. Nothing beats real stick time, but I believe some fundamentals can be be learned this way and the cost of certification decreased somewhat.

[Vaughn Simon[_2_]]

There is already lots of good advice here. I just want to point out
that glider school schedules tend to be rather vague and fluid. You're
not going to the doctor's office to be "seen" so that you can quickly
leave. Make it a habit to arrive early so that you can watch others and
learn. Don't allow yourself to become upset if your lesson doesn't
happen precisely when it is scheduled. Talk to people, make friends,
learn from them! Once you learn the ropes and can safely do so, make
yourself useful.

Soaring is more than just a sterile skill to be mastered, it is a
culture and a worldwide community. So take the time to relax, to
listen, and to allow yourself to be steeped in it.

Vaughn

[Bruce Hoult]

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 8:11:41 PM UTC+3, Paul Agnew wrote:
> I'm intrigued by the computer simulator-based training program being developed on www.gliderCFI.com . The presentation at the SSA convention was very encourging as they're figuring out how to use Condor to teach basic glider skills with a very organized and logical syllabus. Nothing beats real stick time, but I believe some fundamentals can be be learned this way and the cost of certification decreased somewhat.

At Wellington Gliding Club we've set up the forward fuselage from a written off Cirrus with the real controls connected to Condor, a huge TV discarded by a corporate, and a small LCD display (12" maybe?) for the instruments. When we have sufficient time and personnel we put even first time trial flight people into the sim for a few minutes. It saves time on the briefing on the field, and when you hand over controls in the air they have a much better idea what's going on, in particular for speed control via attitude control, and rudder coordination.

If I recall correctly, we usually have Condor set up using the ASW28 model as seeming the closest in handling and performance to our DG1000 training gliders.

[[email protected]]

Reuben welcome to flying! Lots of good advice here and I will throw a little more your way. As to what ship to train in, I'm not sure where your home is, but fly whatever you can get the most experience in for the money you have. Depending on yourclubs setup, it may make more flying sense to fly whatever trainer is cheaper. Dont worry about the transition to glass. If the 2-33 is available and less expensive then fly the heck out of it. Crossing the transition to glass is not the big deal many make of it as long as you are learning the correct basics, correctly. The thing you are learning that is the most important now and for the future is decision making skills. Knowing whats happening (example high on approach) and how to correct for it..
Also once you get soloed off and can fly on your own, be thinking about getting your own ship. If your funds are limited, there are still many relatively affordable ships out there that will teach you alot. You dont need the latest greatest. For example, schweizer 1-26's can be had for under 6k. When you can fly whenever you want for as long as you want, then your soaring horizons will really start to widen.
As was said before soaring and soaring clubs are rarely on a schedule. Best plan is to get out there early and often. Many times you will learn more from discussions with other pilots on the ground than you will from your flight.

As to moving on to power, soaring is the very best base to build an aviation career upon. I was fortunate to start in gliders as a 13 year old, and I didnt transition into power untill I turned 40. Ended up flying for a living, but the airmanship I learned soaring has saved my ass many tumes while flying power.
Welcome to the skies.
Dan

[BobW]

On 3/28/2016 8:28 AM, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> I'm beginning my soaring journey. Have visited the gliderport twice
> (Bermuda High Soaring in Jefferson, South Carolina). Supposed to go up
> this Saturday for the first time if the weather cooperates.
>
> I did ground school and a few hours in a 172 about 6 years ago, and I've
> been up in a glider once about 15 years ago. I'm 35 now. Aviation has
> always been a passion of mine but life has kept me busy and I haven't been
> able to fulfill my dreams... Hoping to change that now. Goal is to get my
> glider license and become the best pilot I can be, continuing on to powered
> planes and hopefully a commercial rating (and beyond). The more I learn
> about gliders though the more I can see sticking with it long term, as well
> as the many benefits of learning to fly via this route.
>
> Just wanted to say hi, and if you have any advice or things you wish you
> had known when you were starting out, let me know!
>

Congratulations on finding the sport, making a wise decision...and welcome!
Soaring: it'll change your life, and *you* get to control whether for the
better or not! :)

I haven't seen any dubious advice offered to-date, but I'd like to second
agcatflyr's sentiments. Stating what he's already advised you, but in a
different manner, "useful soaring performance" lies (far) less in the glider
you fly than it does inside your head, and anyone who tries to tell you
otherwise is really admitting they haven't learned a very basic truism of the
activity. You'll grow your soaring/flight skills most rapidly, safely and
"funly" by flying every opportunity you can, in whatever ship(s) are most
available and most affordable to you, L/D be hanged! Moreover, every single
one of the skills (judgment and mechanical) you learn from soaring
participation will carry directly over to future fixed-wing power flying,
while the reverse isn't true.

I'd also encourage you to join the Soaring Society of America (if you haven't
already - you're not yet present in their member database). Though disparaged
by some soaring nuts (not me!), its monthly magazine has been a font of
enjoyment and knowledge for me for (gasp) over 40 years. Membership also
offers you - among other things - electronic access to essentially all (but a
few recent years' worth) of back issues of "Soaring" magazine, a *tremendous*
resource!!!

My only wish when I began was that I'd learned of the sport earlier! (I was
just out of college.)

Just out of curiosity, how did you learn of RAS? You'll find that it
(presently) seems "inhabited" (in the routinely-posting sense of things)
mostly by "somewhat experienced" sailplane pilots, but I gather may be
relatively regularly visited by all skill levels of "lurkers." Feel free to
post bearing in mind the underlying principle that there isn't any such thing
as a silly/dumb question! Or, simply to exult in new-found joy... :)

Bob W.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 6:02:34 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
> Feel free to post bearing in mind the underlying principle that there isn't
> any such thing as a silly/dumb question!

But beware the myriad dumb answers! ;-)

-Tom

[Reuben Bakker]

Thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement! Bob, I found this group by simply searching for a sailplane forum (which there don't seem to be too many out there, surprisingly...)

Bermuda High has several 2-33's and that's probably what I'll be learning in, until I solo and can fly some of the single seaters. They do have a duo discus as well which I'd love to learn to fly, but I don't mind flying the bigger slower trainers to start.

I would definitely love to have my own sailplane someday. I've heard a lot about the 1-26, and I believe Bermuda High has at least one of those as well. That's one thing that has really drawn me to gliding - it's a lot more accessible (financially) than just about any other type of aviation - and it will build nicely for my power ratings, etc in the future.

I went ahead and downloaded condor - already had a logitech 3d joystick. I've put in several hours on it already - what a great sim. Being able to spend a good deal of time practicing being on tow, flying the pattern, and even finding thermals has been a lot of fun, and I'm sure will help when it comes time for the real thing.

I have also learned about the fluidity of scheduling already - the first day I went to check out the field they had cancelled everything because of a very bad weather forecast - it turned out to be beautiful. The next weekend the forecast looked good and I was supposed to have my first lesson, but I woke up to dense fog that really never lifted. Still had a good day at the field though - helped install a tow hook on a Cessna 185 they recently acquired. Bermuda High is actually hosting the 18m nationals this year (in May), so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what that is all about!

Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be a frequent visitor with more questions!

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 10:01:37 AM UTC-4, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> Thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement! Bob, I found this group by simply searching for a sailplane forum (which there don't seem to be too many out there, surprisingly...)
>
> Bermuda High has several 2-33's and that's probably what I'll be learning in, until I solo and can fly some of the single seaters. They do have a duo discus as well which I'd love to learn to fly, but I don't mind flying the bigger slower trainers to start.
>
> I would definitely love to have my own sailplane someday. I've heard a lot about the 1-26, and I believe Bermuda High has at least one of those as well. That's one thing that has really drawn me to gliding - it's a lot more accessible (financially) than just about any other type of aviation - and it will build nicely for my power ratings, etc in the future.
>
> I went ahead and downloaded condor - already had a logitech 3d joystick. I've put in several hours on it already - what a great sim. Being able to spend a good deal of time practicing being on tow, flying the pattern, and even finding thermals has been a lot of fun, and I'm sure will help when it comes time for the real thing.
>
> I have also learned about the fluidity of scheduling already - the first day I went to check out the field they had cancelled everything because of a very bad weather forecast - it turned out to be beautiful. The next weekend the forecast looked good and I was supposed to have my first lesson, but I woke up to dense fog that really never lifted. Still had a good day at the field though - helped install a tow hook on a Cessna 185 they recently acquired. Bermuda High is actually hosting the 18m nationals this year (in May), so I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what that is all about!
>
> Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be a frequent visitor with more questions!

Fly as regularly as possible.
Bermuda High is a great place to learn- they have been at it a long time.
People that show up on the flyable but not great soaring days have the place and instructors to themselves.
People that pitch in commonly go the the front of the line.
Have fun
UH

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:28:21 AM UTC-4, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> I'm beginning my soaring journey...

Reuben, none of the respondents have warned you about a big
problem you'll face: Airsickness.

Fortunately, there's an easy remedy available.

To one glass of orange juice, add:
- 3 ground jalapeno peppers, hotter the better
- 2 ground garlic cloves
Some RAS posters also add a dash of horse-radish,
but that's not strictly necessary.

Drink one of these about 15 minutes before flight,
and you'll be all set!

Enjoy your journey,
Best Regards, Dave

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Sounds like an April fool's joke
On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 6:37:48 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:28:21 AM UTC-4, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> > I'm beginning my soaring journey...
>
> Reuben, none of the respondents have warned you about a big
> problem you'll face: Airsickness.
>
> Fortunately, there's an easy remedy available.
>
> To one glass of orange juice, add:
> - 3 ground jalapeno peppers, hotter the better
> - 2 ground garlic cloves
> Some RAS posters also add a dash of horse-radish,
> but that's not strictly necessary.
>
> Drink one of these about 15 minutes before flight,
> and you'll be all set!
>
> Enjoy your journey,
> Best Regards, Dave

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 11:09:57 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Sounds like an April fool's joke
> On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 6:37:48 AM UTC-7, Dave Nadler wrote:
> > On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:28:21 AM UTC-4, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> > > I'm beginning my soaring journey...
> >
> > Reuben, none of the respondents have warned you about a big
> > problem you'll face: Airsickness.
> >
> > Fortunately, there's an easy remedy available.
> >
> > To one glass of orange juice, add:
> > - 3 ground jalapeno peppers, hotter the better
> > - 2 ground garlic cloves
> > Some RAS posters also add a dash of horse-radish,
> > but that's not strictly necessary.
> >
> > Drink one of these about 15 minutes before flight,
> > and you'll be all set!
> >
> > Enjoy your journey,
> > Best Regards, Dave

Or...... it may make you sick BEFORE the flight, thus not much of an issue DURING the flight.

As someone that has had to deal with airsickness my whole flying life (I have to "re-acclimate" every spring), I can sympathize.

[2G]

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 7:28:21 AM UTC-7, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> I'm beginning my soaring journey. Have visited the gliderport twice (Bermuda High Soaring in Jefferson, South Carolina). Supposed to go up this Saturday for the first time if the weather cooperates.
>
> I did ground school and a few hours in a 172 about 6 years ago, and I've been up in a glider once about 15 years ago. I'm 35 now. Aviation has always been a passion of mine but life has kept me busy and I haven't been able to fulfill my dreams... Hoping to change that now. Goal is to get my glider license and become the best pilot I can be, continuing on to powered planes and hopefully a commercial rating (and beyond). The more I learn about gliders though the more I can see sticking with it long term, as well as the many benefits of learning to fly via this route.
>
> Just wanted to say hi, and if you have any advice or things you wish you had known when you were starting out, let me know!

Besides getting Condor, buy a copy of Tom Knauff's book "Glider Flight Training Manual" and study it cover to cover. Also, join the SSA (www.ssa.org). Finally, hang out at the airport and get to know the local pilots; I am sure they would be happy to give you pointers. You might even be able to snag a flight in someone's two place.

Good luck and great flying!

Tom

[ZZ]

Excellent advice, Vaughn.
Paul
ZZ

[RickL]

Let me strongly second using Condor to accelerate your training. If you do go this route it is worth getting rudder pedals though - much better for training the feet. Scott Manley has an excellent course outline and lessons on www.glidercfi.com. After taking a flight lesson you can go home and try to reproduce the flight on Condor.

On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 11:06:48 AM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Monday, March 28, 2016 at 5:28:21 PM UTC+3, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> > Just wanted to say hi, and if you have any advice or things you wish you had known when you were starting out, let me know!
>
> If they'll let you, do your training in the Duo Discus, not the 2-33. In reality, it's not any harder to fly, and it's far more representative of other gliders you'll fly later. If you learn in the 2-33 then you'll have a big conversion process later.
>
> Even if it costs more per hour, your training flights will be a lot longer on average, so you'll spend less on the tow plane.
>
> For about the last ten years my club has done all training in DG1000, which is the direct competitor to the Duo Discus. The DG has a sprung undercarriage which makes it more tolerant of bad student landings, but there's very little difference other than that. (we also use the DG in 18m wingspan configuration vs the fixed 20m for the Duo, but that's not a huge deal) Before the DG, we used late 70's Grob Twin Astirs, which are also a big heavy fiberglass glider.
>
> Get a copy of Condor Soaring simulator and use it with a gaming joystick such as Thrustmaster Top Gun Fox 2 Pro or Logitech Extreme 3D. Set the twist to be rudder, the throttle lever on the base as airbrakes, and a pair of buttons on the top of the stick under your thumb as elevator trim up/down. I also like to make left and right on the hat be "glance" left and right.
>
> This sim can vastly decrease the amount of expensive air time needed to understand from basic concepts of the aerotow, flght and landing right up to cross country flying. Spend some early time with an experienced glider pilot to guide you into good habits.
>
> Unfortunately this program is Windows only, but it runs fine in virtual machines such as the free VMWare Player (I use this), and I believe also in CodeWeavers CrossOver.

[Reuben Bakker]

Thanks for all the advice so far! (I think I'll pass on that drink though, blech!)

I've been having a great time with condor and I'm reading my books. Unfortunately the last two attempts at scheduling a first lesson have been foiled by bad weather. I'm on the schedule for Saturday so hopefully the weather will finally cooperate!

[Reuben Bakker]

On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 9:23:47 PM UTC-4, Reuben Bakker wrote:
> Thanks for all the advice so far! (I think I'll pass on that drink though, blech!)
>
> I've been having a great time with condor and I'm reading my books. Unfortunately the last two attempts at scheduling a first lesson have been foiled by bad weather. I'm on the schedule for Saturday so hopefully the weather will finally cooperate!

2 full days of lessons under my belt and loving every minute of it. Can't wait to solo! Still have a ways to go though...

[[email protected]]

In every step which I took in gliding (solo, license, aerobatics), I encountered that phenomenon where you just can't seem to do everything right...just 90%. Stick with it when that happens, because it's just before you master it. And it makes the achievement a little bit sweeter.