Re: Discus Wing question

[John Galloway]

It is a classic wing from a classic glider design by
a classic glider designer. It has a slightly larger
wing area than some more recent designs and should
carry the extra weight of a motor glider well. It
is well behaved and benign in its flying and stalling
characteristics and also tolerates bugs and rain well.
As a glider it won several world championships so
its performance should be as good as you could reasonably
expect for a non flapped 15 glider wing on a motor
glider.

John Galloway


At 18:42 20 August 2003, Steve B wrote:
>I am curious about opinions of the Discus B wing design.
>I would like
>to know what thoughts there are about the performance
>and qualities of
>the Discus Wing.
>
>I am purchasing a Carat made by AMS. It is powered
>Self Launch
>Sailplane. The Carat looks like a blend of Motor Glider
>and Sailplane
>with more of an emphasis on the motor off aspects...
>real decent
>performance from what I am finding. I would just like
>to get familiar
>with the wing design. I think it may be the Discus
>BM wing that is
>used for the ship.
>
>Thanks
>Steve
>

[Jamey Jacobs]

Steve
I am also getting a Carat (s/n 010) and have talked with many people
about the Discus wing. You are right that it is based on the Discus
BM wing (no ballast capacity) and it also uses the horizontal
stabilizer and (I think) control mechanisms. The most common feedback
I have received is that "the wing's the thing" and if Technoflug/AMS
have set it up right, the flying characteristics should be quite
similar to a moderately ballasted Discus - with a little more drag.
The polars published on the www.technoflug.de site (tests conducted by
German akafleig) look like this is the case. The AMS polars in their
brochure are a bit more optimistic, but were tested on a better sealed
ship with winglets.

There is a great article by Dick Johnson on the Discus performance
(http://www.ssa.org/Magazines/Johnson.asp) and he shows that sealing
is important and the higher speed performance shows better than normal
improvement with a heavier wing loading. Of course, the Discus is
widely recognized as one of the nicest handling, most foregiving
standard class ships. Many clubs allow low time pilots to fly them.
This is reported to be applicable to the Carat based on the (possibly
biased) reports by Oliver Dyer-Bennet and Matjaz Slana (Yahoo!
caratmotorglider discussion group). They both say that it retains the
light "fingertip" control and excellent harmonization of the Discus.

I'm also very interested in this group's comments on the Discus wing
characteristics, and I look forward to others' responses.

The first Carat-A in the US will be flown at Minden this, or next
weekend depending on getting paperwork through FAA. I'll push for a
flight report to be published on the caratmotorglider group.

Regards
Jamey Jacobs

(Steve B) wrote in message >...
> I am curious about opinions of the Discus B wing design. I would like
> to know what thoughts there are about the performance and qualities of
> the Discus Wing.
>
> I am purchasing a Carat made by AMS. It is powered Self Launch
> Sailplane. The Carat looks like a blend of Motor Glider and Sailplane
> with more of an emphasis on the motor off aspects... real decent
> performance from what I am finding. I would just like to get familiar
> with the wing design. I think it may be the Discus BM wing that is
> used for the ship.
>
> Thanks
> Steve

[Steve B]

Jamey... thanks for the info regarding the Carat. I am looking forward
to hearing how the Carat flys and opinions of the design from the one
that just arrived in Minden. I placed my order for the Motor Sailplane
recently and until it is built I will have entertain myself in the
virtual world getting impressions from other flyers that are fortunate
to fly one.

For my location in Hawaii having a reliable 4 stroke 4 cyl engine will
add a safety margin that will make the flying easier and more
enjoyable for my situation. Off field landings in Lava are not an
option.

I am curious were your Carat will be located? Hopefuly you will be
flying in the near future and can forward comments on the Ship.

Thanks
Steve



(Jamey Jacobs) wrote in message >...
> Steve
> I am also getting a Carat (s/n 010) and have talked with many people
> about the Discus wing. You are right that it is based on the Discus
> BM wing (no ballast capacity) and it also uses the horizontal
> stabilizer and (I think) control mechanisms. The most common feedback
> I have received is that "the wing's the thing" and if Technoflug/AMS
> have set it up right, the flying characteristics should be quite
> similar to a moderately ballasted Discus - with a little more drag.
> The polars published on the www.technoflug.de site (tests conducted by
> German akafleig) look like this is the case. The AMS polars in their
> brochure are a bit more optimistic, but were tested on a better sealed
> ship with winglets.
>
> There is a great article by Dick Johnson on the Discus performance
> (http://www.ssa.org/Magazines/Johnson.asp) and he shows that sealing
> is important and the higher speed performance shows better than normal
> improvement with a heavier wing loading. Of course, the Discus is
> widely recognized as one of the nicest handling, most foregiving
> standard class ships. Many clubs allow low time pilots to fly them.
> This is reported to be applicable to the Carat based on the (possibly
> biased) reports by Oliver Dyer-Bennet and Matjaz Slana (Yahoo!
> caratmotorglider discussion group). They both say that it retains the
> light "fingertip" control and excellent harmonization of the Discus.
>
> I'm also very interested in this group's comments on the Discus wing
> characteristics, and I look forward to others' responses.
>
> The first Carat-A in the US will be flown at Minden this, or next
> weekend depending on getting paperwork through FAA. I'll push for a
> flight report to be published on the caratmotorglider group.
>
> Regards
> Jamey Jacobs
>
> (Steve B) wrote in message >...
> > I am curious about opinions of the Discus B wing design. I would like
> > to know what thoughts there are about the performance and qualities of
> > the Discus Wing.
> >
> > I am purchasing a Carat made by AMS. It is powered Self Launch
> > Sailplane. The Carat looks like a blend of Motor Glider and Sailplane
> > with more of an emphasis on the motor off aspects... real decent
> > performance from what I am finding. I would just like to get familiar
> > with the wing design. I think it may be the Discus BM wing that is
> > used for the ship.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Steve

[Jamey Jacobs]

I'm surprised there are no additional comments on the discus wing - no
mentions of quirks, or flying ballasted vs unballasted, or comparisons
to the LS4, or versus the discus 2, or ...

Re: my Carat, it will be at minden for a few months, then at Palo Alto
(PAO)airport in the San Francisco bay area. There are a number of
good-great soaring areas within 125 miles, so I'll have my option of
which one is working best, or to explore new areas. I hope to have it
by the end of the year.

(Steve B) wrote in message >...
> Jamey...
>
> ...I am curious were your Carat will be located? Hopefuly you will be
> flying in the near future and can forward comments on the Ship.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>

[Shaber CJ]

>I get the impression that it is a well proven
>wing design that should work well on the Carat motor sailplane.

Anyone have a web link or photos of a Carat, I have never seen one?

[Jim Culp]

Shaber asks about website for Carat , Picolo

Yes, Goto http://technoflug.de

Nice website. Well done.

Notable: In US & Canada, Oliver Dyer Bennett is agent,

and in Eastern US the dealer is Knut Kjenslie of Seminole-Lake
Soaring Center.


Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim Culp USA
GatorCity Florida

[Jamey Jacobs]

AMS makes the Carat, DG 303, DG 505, & DG1000. You can see more carat
info and pics at the AMS site: www.ams-flight.si/index2.html and also
go to the Yahoo! caratmotorglider discussion group from the AMS site.
I've collected a lot of Carat pics there too.

JAMEY JACOBS

Jim Culp > wrote in message >...
> Shaber asks about website for Carat , Picolo
>
> Yes, Goto http://technoflug.de
>
> Nice website. Well done.
>
> Notable: In US & Canada, Oliver Dyer Bennett is agent,
>
> and in Eastern US the dealer is Knut Kjenslie of Seminole-Lake
> Soaring Center.
>
>
> Dancing on clouds,
>
> Keep it up!
>
> Jim Culp USA
> GatorCity Florida