Pilot weight and gliding

[JohnH]

Hello,

I'm just now learning about Gliding and will start instruction soon.
Question: I'm 6ft tall and weigh 232 lbs. Have I weighed myself out of
many sailplane options? I DO plan on losing some more weight, but just
in case I don't, would appreciate some knowledge on this :) The
instructor said I'm ok for the trainer I'll be flying in.

Thanks in advance

john

[DGRTEK]

John,
The 2-33 for example has a max weight limit of 1040. Approximately 640lb of
that is Iron so that leaves you 400lbs to split between the two of you. You
have to see the WB for the actual ship you will be flying, ships that have had
work and paint jobs add up weight.

It really boils down to specific weight and balance figures for each sailplane.
If you plan on taking lessons in a 2-33, and you say you are 232lbs
clothed..extra radios, gps,water bottle.....your instructor can weigh no more
than an honest 168lbs.

All that being said, I've seen more than one pair go up that combined couldn't
possibly weigh 400lbs or less!

Some gliders will be a better fit than others.. you'll have to find out whats
comfortable for you.

Good luck!

Douglas

[Liam Finley]

JohnH > wrote in message >...
> Hello,
>
> I'm just now learning about Gliding and will start instruction soon.
> Question: I'm 6ft tall and weigh 232 lbs. Have I weighed myself out of
> many sailplane options? I DO plan on losing some more weight, but just
> in case I don't, would appreciate some knowledge on this :) The
> instructor said I'm ok for the trainer I'll be flying in.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> john


If you want to move into high performance single seaters, your
options will be somewhat restricted, but you'll manage to find
something. Its typical for Euro gliders to come out of the factory
with a max cockpit load of 242 lbs (110 kg.), but that often gets
reduced when extra equipment is installed.


On the other hand, if you are content to fly Schweizer junk your whole
life, you've got nothing to worry about.

[Marc Ramsey]

"Liam Finley" > wrote...
> On the other hand, if you are content to fly Schweizer junk your whole
> life, you've got nothing to worry about.

Gee, what a fine way to encourage a newcomer to become involved in this sport.
At least he'll find out what he's up against early on...

Marc

[Guy Byars]

> If you want to move into high performance single seaters, your
> options will be somewhat restricted, but you'll manage to find
> something. Its typical for Euro gliders to come out of the factory
> with a max cockpit load of 242 lbs (110 kg.), but that often gets
> reduced when extra equipment is installed.

Most high performance gliders have provision to store ballast in the tail.
This could increase the minimum cockpit weight. You will have to reduce the
water ballast accordingly to stay below gross weight.

[JohnH]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> "Liam Finley" > wrote...
>
>>On the other hand, if you are content to fly Schweizer junk your whole
>>life, you've got nothing to worry about.
>
>
> Gee, what a fine way to encourage a newcomer to become involved in this sport.
> At least he'll find out what he's up against early on...
>
> Marc
>
>
>

No, I sure don't want to fly Schweizer junk my whole life. But, I'm not
looking to do aerobatics either....and least not on purpose, at this time :)

Thanks for the replies. Marc, I grew up in newsgroups and really
expected some pretty rude comments, but haven't received any yet. I
have also received some encouraging and enlightening emails. I
apparently am not the only one on this board that has been fighting the
pilot weight problem ;>

john

[BTIZ]

most high performance gliders of European manufacture have a max seat load
of 242 lbs (US) or 110Kg, that cannot be adjusted (increased)by extra
ballast weight in the tail, regardless of what the W&B computes out to. It
is a manufacturing design limit for structural integrity under impact loads.

The other consideration other than weight, especially with an aircraft like
the 2-32, is the "belly girth", even at 6ft+ and 232#, if you can't get full
aft stick movement.. don't fly.

Our very lightest CFI turned down a student, the CG worked out ok, but the
"fit check" did not.

BT

"Guy Byars" > wrote in message
...
> > If you want to move into high performance single seaters, your
> > options will be somewhat restricted, but you'll manage to find
> > something. Its typical for Euro gliders to come out of the factory
> > with a max cockpit load of 242 lbs (110 kg.), but that often gets
> > reduced when extra equipment is installed.
>
> Most high performance gliders have provision to store ballast in the tail.
> This could increase the minimum cockpit weight. You will have to reduce
the
> water ballast accordingly to stay below gross weight.
>
>
>
>
>

[BTIZ]

kinda hard to get DUAL primary instruction in a single seat glider


"Bob Kibby" > wrote in message
news:FYe1b.170667$Oz4.44660@rwcrnsc54...
> I have a SZD-59 Acro for sale that would satisify your needs. I am 6'5"
and
> weigh 210 lbs. Plenty of room for a big guy. Information on Wings and
Wheels
> web site under used sailplanes. I believe it is on sheet 7 or 8 of Tim's
> used sailplane listings.
>
> Bob Kibby "59A" old SZD-59 and ""2BK" new Discus-2T
>
> --
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> "JohnH" > wrote in message
> et...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm just now learning about Gliding and will start instruction soon.
> > Question: I'm 6ft tall and weigh 232 lbs. Have I weighed myself out of
> > many sailplane options? I DO plan on losing some more weight, but just
> > in case I don't, would appreciate some knowledge on this :) The
> > instructor said I'm ok for the trainer I'll be flying in.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > john
> >
>
>

[Shirley]

"Liam Finley" > wrote...

>On the other hand, if you are content to fly
>Schweizer junk your whole life, you've got
>nothing to worry about.

Unless that was said "tongue-in-cheek", that's just plain ignorant. You don't
have to like it, but Schweizer has its place. Not everyone who loves to go
places and drive has to do so in a Ferrari to enjoy the trip!

--Shirley

[Tom Seim]

JohnH > wrote in message >...
> Hello,
>
> I'm just now learning about Gliding and will start instruction soon.
> Question: I'm 6ft tall and weigh 232 lbs. Have I weighed myself out of
> many sailplane options? I DO plan on losing some more weight, but just
> in case I don't, would appreciate some knowledge on this :) The
> instructor said I'm ok for the trainer I'll be flying in.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> john

Schleicher makes gliders that will take your frame.

BTW, the Adkins diet worked for me, dropped about 30 lbs.

[JohnH]

Shirley wrote:
> "Liam Finley" > wrote...
>
>
>>On the other hand, if you are content to fly
>>Schweizer junk your whole life, you've got
>>nothing to worry about.
>
>
> Unless that was said "tongue-in-cheek", that's just plain ignorant. You don't
> have to like it, but Schweizer has its place. Not everyone who loves to go
> places and drive has to do so in a Ferrari to enjoy the trip!
>
> --Shirley
>

Well put, Shirley!

john

[JohnH]

F.L. Whiteley wrote:
> Atkins, 22lbs between Thanksgiving and Easter and a little more since.
> Although I bike 45-60mins most days, exercise won't do it all. When I did
> high impact step in the mid-90's, I got into very good condition;^) and
> gained 25lbs;^(
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
>

Yep, I'm doing the Atkins...that worked well for a friend of mine also.
I guess gliding just gives me one more incentive to add to the long
list of incentives to slim down :)

john

[Liam Finley]

(Shirley) wrote in message >...
> "Liam Finley" > wrote...
>
> >On the other hand, if you are content to fly
> >Schweizer junk your whole life, you've got
> >nothing to worry about.
>
> Unless that was said "tongue-in-cheek", that's just plain ignorant. You don't
> have to like it, but Schweizer has its place. Not everyone who loves to go
> places and drive has to do so in a Ferrari to enjoy the trip!
>
> --Shirley

Not ignorance. I've more time in Schweizers than most US pilots have
in the air total. Yes, they have their place, it's called an aluminum
recycling plant.

[goneill]

As a single seater consider the Lak 12 ,a bear to rig if you don't have the
rigging gear but is a huge cockpit and
a max placarded weight 140kg - 150kg without tailballast.and 50/1 ld
I saw a pilot who put even put one on its nose while waiting for takeoff
"JohnH" > wrote in message
et...
> Hello,
>
> I'm just now learning about Gliding and will start instruction soon.
> Question: I'm 6ft tall and weigh 232 lbs. Have I weighed myself out of
> many sailplane options? I DO plan on losing some more weight, but just
> in case I don't, would appreciate some knowledge on this :) The
> instructor said I'm ok for the trainer I'll be flying in.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> john
>

[mm]

"Liam Finley" > wrote in message
m...
> (Shirley) wrote in message
>...
> > "Liam Finley" > wrote...
> >
> > >On the other hand, if you are content to fly
> > >Schweizer junk your whole life, you've got
> > >nothing to worry about.
> >
> > Unless that was said "tongue-in-cheek", that's just plain ignorant. You
don't
> > have to like it, but Schweizer has its place. Not everyone who loves to
go
> > places and drive has to do so in a Ferrari to enjoy the trip!
> >
> > --Shirley
>
> Not ignorance. I've more time in Schweizers than most US pilots have
> in the air total. Yes, they have their place, it's called an aluminum
> recycling plant.

Arrogance perhaps then?

[Doug Hoffman]

"Guy Byars" > wrote in message >...
> > If you want to move into high performance single seaters, your
> > options will be somewhat restricted, but you'll manage to find
> > something. Its typical for Euro gliders to come out of the factory
> > with a max cockpit load of 242 lbs (110 kg.), but that often gets
> > reduced when extra equipment is installed.
>
> Most high performance gliders have provision to store ballast in the tail.
> This could increase the minimum cockpit weight. You will have to reduce the
> water ballast accordingly to stay below gross weight.

I will assume you meant "maximum" cockpit weight.

Isn't water ballast a different issue from fuselage weight? In other
words, it may be perfectly ok, structurally, to add 300 lbs of water
in the wings but that same 300 lbs added to the fuselage (with pilot)
would not be ok. The issue is the structural limits of attachment of
the fuse to the wings, I believe. Perhaps I simply misread your
message and this is not what you were implying. But I add this
comment just to make the issue clear to the original poster.

Water in the wings does not stress the attachment of the fuse.

-Doug

[Vaughn]

"Andy Blackburn" > wrote in message
...
> Atkins - 35 lbs. in 2.5 mos.
>
> Watch the cholesterol though.
>
When I was first looking seriously at soaring, weight was an issue. I
went the low-fat route, lost about 50 pounds, and haven't looked back. It
also got me off cholesterol medication. Like all diets, low fat has its
medical caveats. Low fat products tend to substitute sugar for fat to add
taste; watch your blood sugar.

Vaughn

[Nolaminar]

The real problem with Schweizer sailplanes it the quality of the gelcoat.
GA

[Drew Hamilton]

JohnH > wrote:
>have also received some encouraging and enlightening emails. I
>apparently am not the only one on this board that has been fighting the
>pilot weight problem ;>

I weigh 220 and I should probably weigh about 170. I fly powered planes
and I've just started soaring. I don't really know about soaring, since
I just started and my instructor is a beanpole, but in powered planes, my
biggest problem has been how many passengers I can take. Right now I can
get 2 adults and 1 kid, but if I lose the 50 lbs., I can take 3 adults
(assuming that one of them is a woman, probably). Also, when I fly solo,
it means that I could take an extra 9 gallons (1 hour) of fuel on board.

In any case, don't let it bother you -- flying and soaring both kick ass!
Even if you have to fly in big clunky junk, it's still better than not
flying at all.

- awh

[Mark James Boyd]

>Not ignorance. I've more time in Schweizers than most US pilots have
>in the air total. Yes, they have their place, it's called an aluminum
>recycling plant.

What a coincidence! I was just opening such a plant! Anyone
wanting to discard their Schweizer please bring it to me and
I will happily pay the going recycle rate.
(Sanford and Sons theme plays in the background, then
Sir Mix-A-Lot lyric "pull up quick to git widdum")

Hmmm...620,000 US pilots, 130K US pilots with Airplane ATP (1500+ hrs).
Average US pilot, must have well over 300 hrs. So Liam has over 300
hours in Schweizers.

How'd he do that since they're such hunks of junk? Perhaps a
LOT of time on tow... :PPPP

[Liam Finley]

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message >...
> How'd he do that since they're such hunks of junk? Perhaps a
> LOT of time on tow... :PPPP

No, a lot of time circling, blissfully ignorant of how much more fun
I'd be having if I were flying a well-designed aircraft.

[Liam Finley]

"George William Peter Reinhart" > wrote in message >...
> Note to Liam,
> It IS ignorance if you haven't the ability to appreciate the elegance and
> utility of the solution.
> There will very likely be Schweizers serving yeoman duty teaching new
> pilots to fly long after your done with flying and gone to meet your maker.
> Cheers!

You've got it backwards. Ignorance is having known only Schweizers,
and being unable to appreciate how poorly designed and functioning
they are. I've been there.

[DGRTEK]

>In any case, don't let it bother you -- flying and soaring both kick ass!
>Even if you have to fly in big clunky junk, it's still better than not
>flying at all.

Well said. I've never left the field after soaring without having a smile on
my face.
So far I've only flown in a 2-33, Blanik and 1-26.

Douglas

[Nolaminar]

Schweizers still have cruddy gelcoat.
GA

[Bruce Greeff]

Best designed airplane is the one your backside is in...

OK that's not quite true, but there is as much fun to be had stooging
around in a vintage wood/tube and fabric glider, or a metal aerobatic
plane as there is in a modern composite machine. The flying may be
different, but you can enjoy it just as much.

I fly from a 1950's bergfalke, K13, Blanik L13, Grob 103 and std Cirrus.
On a marginal day or for taking passenger for a gentle ride there is no
question about which is the best. Spins in the K13 are fun - would not
describe them that way in the Cirrus...

When the air is hardly moving you can climb in the Bergie, while the
higher wingloading planes are landing. Control harmonisation wasn't
invented when Egon Scheibe designed this one, and it shows. Flying her
well is part of the fun. I assume the 2-33 is similar.

Now if you want to go somewhere it's a different matter.


Liam Finley wrote:
> (Mark James Boyd) wrote in message >...
>
>>How'd he do that since they're such hunks of junk? Perhaps a
>>LOT of time on tow... :PPPP
>
>
> No, a lot of time circling, blissfully ignorant of how much more fun
> I'd be having if I were flying a well-designed aircraft.

[Doug Hoffman]

(Doug Hoffman) wrote in message >...
> "Guy Byars" > wrote in message >...
> >
> > Most high performance gliders have provision to store ballast in the tail.
> > This could increase the minimum cockpit weight. You will have to reduce the
> > water ballast accordingly to stay below gross weight.
>
> I will assume you meant "maximum" cockpit weight.

My apologies. You had it right with "minimum" cockpit weight.

-Doug

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:16:30 GMT, JohnH > wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I'm just now learning about Gliding and will start instruction soon.
>Question: I'm 6ft tall and weigh 232 lbs. Have I weighed myself out of
>many sailplane options? I DO plan on losing some more weight, but just
>in case I don't, would appreciate some knowledge on this :) The
>instructor said I'm ok for the trainer I'll be flying in.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>john
>