Solar Impulse II Makes California

[Larry Dighera]

<http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
Solar Impulse II Makes California

Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.

"It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>.

[george152]

On 4/27/2016 4:39 AM, Larry Dighera wrote:
>
> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
> Solar Impulse II Makes California
>
> Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
> California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
> to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
> batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
> dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
> south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
> tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
> from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.
>
> "It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
> California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
> impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
> the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
> a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
> what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
> challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
> circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>.
>
It's a toy.
One seat
flies at 30 odd knots
and cooks batteries in a -c environment
And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
airliners

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 4:16:28 PM UTC-4, george wrote:

> It's a toy.
> One seat
> flies at 30 odd knots
> and cooks batteries in a -c environment
> And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
> airliners

It's a trial experiment.

---

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:16:24 +1200, george152 > wrote:

>On 4/27/2016 4:39 AM, Larry Dighera wrote:
>>
>> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
>> Solar Impulse II Makes California
>>
>> Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
>> California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
>> to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
>> batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
>> dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
>> south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
>> tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
>> from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.
>>
>> "It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
>> California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
>> impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
>> the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
>> a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
>> what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
>> challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
>> circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>.
>>
>It's a toy.
>One seat
>flies at 30 odd knots
>and cooks batteries in a -c environment
>And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
>airliners

Personally, I wouldn't characterize it as a toy, but more like a proof of
concept vehicle, to demonstrate the feasibility of harvesting the sun's energy
to potentially provide clean, sustainable transportation.

At any rate, if Solar Impulse II successfully flies around the world solely
powered by energy from the sun, I'd equate that with Lindbergh's solo Atlantic
feat, at least.

At last, electric power appears to have planted its banner solidly in the
fertile soil of transportation. And, hydrogen fuel makes it a clean, feasible
alternative to gasoline, that can be generated by solar powered electrolysis of
water (on the ground) without the pollution of petrochemical extraction and
emissions. Current photovoltaic cell's limited efficiency preclude their use
to power heaver than air aircraft in a practical way, but for lighter than air
aircraft, they may be quiet well suited, as they won't have to provide the
power to support the weight of the aircraft, only propel it.

It's about time superior technology pushed aside the vested interests, and be
recognized for its true benefits. Perhaps there's hope the 21st century may
initiate an era that transcends politics, profiteers, and plutocrats,
recognizes the limitations of a closed system, and offers long term,
sustainable solutions. We can hope ...

[[email protected]]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:16:24 +1200, george152 > wrote:
>
>>On 4/27/2016 4:39 AM, Larry Dighera wrote:
>>>
>>> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
>>> Solar Impulse II Makes California
>>>
>>> Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
>>> California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
>>> to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
>>> batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
>>> dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
>>> south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
>>> tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
>>> from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.
>>>
>>> "It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
>>> California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
>>> impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
>>> the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
>>> a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
>>> what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
>>> challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
>>> circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>.
>>>
>>It's a toy.
>>One seat
>>flies at 30 odd knots
>>and cooks batteries in a -c environment
>>And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
>>airliners
>
> Personally, I wouldn't characterize it as a toy, but more like a proof of
> concept vehicle, to demonstrate the feasibility of harvesting the sun's energy
> to potentially provide clean, sustainable transportation.
>
> At any rate, if Solar Impulse II successfully flies around the world solely
> powered by energy from the sun, I'd equate that with Lindbergh's solo Atlantic
> feat, at least.
>
> At last, electric power appears to have planted its banner solidly in the
> fertile soil of transportation. And, hydrogen fuel makes it a clean, feasible
> alternative to gasoline, that can be generated by solar powered electrolysis of
> water (on the ground) without the pollution of petrochemical extraction and
> emissions. Current photovoltaic cell's limited efficiency preclude their use
> to power heaver than air aircraft in a practical way, but for lighter than air
> aircraft, they may be quiet well suited, as they won't have to provide the
> power to support the weight of the aircraft, only propel it.
>
> It's about time superior technology pushed aside the vested interests, and be
> recognized for its true benefits. Perhaps there's hope the 21st century may
> initiate an era that transcends politics, profiteers, and plutocrats,
> recognizes the limitations of a closed system, and offers long term,
> sustainable solutions. We can hope ...

What vested interests would that be?

Perhaps the Chineses panel makers dumping panels?

Maybe the tax subsidies that are required before anyone with any economic
sense gets involved with solar power?

Absent a fantasic improvement in solar cell efficiency, just around the
corner now for about a half century, solar power will remain a niche
technology.

Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2015: Enecsys, QBotix, Solar-Fabrik, Soitec,
TSMC Solar. On the brink of being bankrupt: Spire Corporation, Andalay Solar,
Abengoa.

Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2014: Areva's solar business, HelioVolt,
LDK, Masdar PV, SolarMax, Sopogy, TEL, Xunlight.



--
Jim Pennino

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 8:31:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Larry Dighera > wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:16:24 +1200, george152 > wrote:
> >
> >>On 4/27/2016 4:39 AM, Larry Dighera wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
> >>> Solar Impulse II Makes California
> >>>
> >>> Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
> >>> California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
> >>> to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
> >>> batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
> >>> dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
> >>> south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
> >>> tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
> >>> from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.
> >>>
> >>> "It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
> >>> California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
> >>> impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
> >>> the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
> >>> a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
> >>> what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
> >>> challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
> >>> circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>..
> >>>
> >>It's a toy.
> >>One seat
> >>flies at 30 odd knots
> >>and cooks batteries in a -c environment
> >>And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
> >>airliners
> >
> > Personally, I wouldn't characterize it as a toy, but more like a proof of
> > concept vehicle, to demonstrate the feasibility of harvesting the sun's energy
> > to potentially provide clean, sustainable transportation.
> >
> > At any rate, if Solar Impulse II successfully flies around the world solely
> > powered by energy from the sun, I'd equate that with Lindbergh's solo Atlantic
> > feat, at least.
> >
> > At last, electric power appears to have planted its banner solidly in the
> > fertile soil of transportation. And, hydrogen fuel makes it a clean, feasible
> > alternative to gasoline, that can be generated by solar powered electrolysis of
> > water (on the ground) without the pollution of petrochemical extraction and
> > emissions. Current photovoltaic cell's limited efficiency preclude their use
> > to power heaver than air aircraft in a practical way, but for lighter than air
> > aircraft, they may be quiet well suited, as they won't have to provide the
> > power to support the weight of the aircraft, only propel it.
> >
> > It's about time superior technology pushed aside the vested interests, and be
> > recognized for its true benefits. Perhaps there's hope the 21st century may
> > initiate an era that transcends politics, profiteers, and plutocrats,
> > recognizes the limitations of a closed system, and offers long term,
> > sustainable solutions. We can hope ...
>
> What vested interests would that be?
>
> Perhaps the Chineses panel makers dumping panels?
>
> Maybe the tax subsidies that are required before anyone with any economic
> sense gets involved with solar power?
>
> Absent a fantasic improvement in solar cell efficiency, just around the
> corner now for about a half century, solar power will remain a niche
> technology.
>
> Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2015: Enecsys, QBotix, Solar-Fabrik, Soitec,
> TSMC Solar. On the brink of being bankrupt: Spire Corporation, Andalay Solar,
> Abengoa.
>
> Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2014: Areva's solar business, HelioVolt,
> LDK, Masdar PV, SolarMax, Sopogy, TEL, Xunlight.
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Pennino

At the start of June, Germany produced 50 percent of its electricity needs from solar power: a new world record. Tobias Rothacher, expert of renewable energies at Germany's Trade and Invest, stated that what his country has done with solar power is a testament to what the renewable resource can accomplish in modern societies.

Fraunhofer ISE research institute revealed that solar panels in the eastern European country generated a record breaking 23.1 GW of electricity in one hour on June 6th. On June 9th, a national holiday, solar energy production peaked at 24.24 GW, which equalled approximately 50.6 percent of the electricity demand.

http://guardianlv.com/2014/06/50-percent-of-the-energy-produced-in-germany-is-solar-new-record/

---

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 8:31:04 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>> Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> > On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:16:24 +1200, george152 > wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 4/27/2016 4:39 AM, Larry Dighera wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
>> >>> Solar Impulse II Makes California
>> >>>
>> >>> Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
>> >>> California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
>> >>> to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
>> >>> batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
>> >>> dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
>> >>> south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
>> >>> tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
>> >>> from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.
>> >>>
>> >>> "It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
>> >>> California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
>> >>> impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
>> >>> the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
>> >>> a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
>> >>> what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
>> >>> challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
>> >>> circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>.
>> >>>
>> >>It's a toy.
>> >>One seat
>> >>flies at 30 odd knots
>> >>and cooks batteries in a -c environment
>> >>And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
>> >>airliners
>> >
>> > Personally, I wouldn't characterize it as a toy, but more like a proof of
>> > concept vehicle, to demonstrate the feasibility of harvesting the sun's energy
>> > to potentially provide clean, sustainable transportation.
>> >
>> > At any rate, if Solar Impulse II successfully flies around the world solely
>> > powered by energy from the sun, I'd equate that with Lindbergh's solo Atlantic
>> > feat, at least.
>> >
>> > At last, electric power appears to have planted its banner solidly in the
>> > fertile soil of transportation. And, hydrogen fuel makes it a clean, feasible
>> > alternative to gasoline, that can be generated by solar powered electrolysis of
>> > water (on the ground) without the pollution of petrochemical extraction and
>> > emissions. Current photovoltaic cell's limited efficiency preclude their use
>> > to power heaver than air aircraft in a practical way, but for lighter than air
>> > aircraft, they may be quiet well suited, as they won't have to provide the
>> > power to support the weight of the aircraft, only propel it.
>> >
>> > It's about time superior technology pushed aside the vested interests, and be
>> > recognized for its true benefits. Perhaps there's hope the 21st century may
>> > initiate an era that transcends politics, profiteers, and plutocrats,
>> > recognizes the limitations of a closed system, and offers long term,
>> > sustainable solutions. We can hope ...
>>
>> What vested interests would that be?
>>
>> Perhaps the Chineses panel makers dumping panels?
>>
>> Maybe the tax subsidies that are required before anyone with any economic
>> sense gets involved with solar power?
>>
>> Absent a fantasic improvement in solar cell efficiency, just around the
>> corner now for about a half century, solar power will remain a niche
>> technology.
>>
>> Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2015: Enecsys, QBotix, Solar-Fabrik, Soitec,
>> TSMC Solar. On the brink of being bankrupt: Spire Corporation, Andalay Solar,
>> Abengoa.
>>
>> Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2014: Areva's solar business, HelioVolt,
>> LDK, Masdar PV, SolarMax, Sopogy, TEL, Xunlight.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Pennino
>
> At the start of June, Germany produced 50 percent of its electricity
> needs from solar power: a new world record. Tobias Rothacher, expert
> of renewable energies at Germany's Trade and Invest, stated that what
> his country has done with solar power is a testament to what the
> renewable resource can accomplish in modern societies.
>
> Fraunhofer ISE research institute revealed that solar panels in the
> eastern European country generated a record breaking 23.1 GW of
> electricity in one hour on June 6th. On June 9th, a national holiday,
> solar energy production peaked at 24.24 GW, which equalled approximately
> 50.6 percent of the electricity demand.
>
> http://guardianlv.com/2014/06/50-percent-of-the-energy-produced-in-germany-is-solar-new-record/
>
> ---

Wasn't it in Germany where one of the very heavily subsidized solar
producers was found to be delivering power at night via rented diesel
generators and if they had not been delivering at night no one would
have caught on to them?

Doesn't Germany have the highest electricity prices in Europe?

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/high-costs-and-errors-of-german-transition-to-renewable-energy-a-920288.html

http://americanenergyalliance.org/2015/05/07/germanys-green-energy-failure/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2015/12/27/europes-energy-and-electricity-policies-are-a-bad-model/#7301c40860e6

http://fuelpoverty.eu/2014/07/09/energy-poverty-in-germany-highlights-of-a-beginning-debate/




--
Jim Pennino

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 00:27:16 -0000, wrote:

>Larry Dighera > wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:16:24 +1200, george152 > wrote:
>>
>>>On 4/27/2016 4:39 AM, Larry Dighera wrote:
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
>>>> Solar Impulse II Makes California
>>>>
>>>> Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
>>>> California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
>>>> to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
>>>> batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
>>>> dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
>>>> south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
>>>> tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
>>>> from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.
>>>>
>>>> "It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
>>>> California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
>>>> impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
>>>> the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
>>>> a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
>>>> what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
>>>> challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
>>>> circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>.
>>>>
>>>It's a toy.
>>>One seat
>>>flies at 30 odd knots
>>>and cooks batteries in a -c environment
>>>And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
>>>airliners
>>
>> Personally, I wouldn't characterize it as a toy, but more like a proof of
>> concept vehicle, to demonstrate the feasibility of harvesting the sun's energy
>> to potentially provide clean, sustainable transportation.
>>
>> At any rate, if Solar Impulse II successfully flies around the world solely
>> powered by energy from the sun, I'd equate that with Lindbergh's solo Atlantic
>> feat, at least.
>>
>> At last, electric power appears to have planted its banner solidly in the
>> fertile soil of transportation. And, hydrogen fuel makes it a clean, feasible
>> alternative to gasoline, that can be generated by solar powered electrolysis of
>> water (on the ground) without the pollution of petrochemical extraction and
>> emissions. Current photovoltaic cell's limited efficiency preclude their use
>> to power heaver than air aircraft in a practical way, but for lighter than air
>> aircraft, they may be quiet well suited, as they won't have to provide the
>> power to support the weight of the aircraft, only propel it.
>>
>> It's about time superior technology pushed aside the vested interests, and be
>> recognized for its true benefits. Perhaps there's hope the 21st century may
>> initiate an era that transcends politics, profiteers, and plutocrats,
>> recognizes the limitations of a closed system, and offers long term,
>> sustainable solutions. We can hope ...
>
>What vested interests would that be?
>

I was referring to the petrochemical industry, that incidentally is currently
outrageously financially subsidized by our nation's government. [1]

>
>Perhaps the Chineses panel makers dumping panels?
>

While that may be a factor in the bankruptcies you mention below, currently it
has resulted in reducing the cost of solar panels below $1.00 per watt:
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/381173196624>.

>
>Maybe the tax subsidies that are required before anyone with any economic
>sense gets involved with solar power?
>
>Absent a fantasic improvement in solar cell efficiency, just around the
>corner now for about a half century, solar power will remain a niche
>technology.
>
>Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2015: Enecsys, QBotix, Solar-Fabrik, Soitec,
>TSMC Solar. On the brink of being bankrupt: Spire Corporation, Andalay Solar,
>Abengoa.
>
>Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2014: Areva's solar business, HelioVolt,
>LDK, Masdar PV, SolarMax, Sopogy, TEL, Xunlight.


Hello Jim,

Your argument is pretty convincing from a narrow point of view. :-)

I know you to be a knowledgeable engineer who possesses a sound mind capable of
reasoned and insightful thoughts. But, your failure to acknowledge some of the
fundamental parameters of the issue of clean, sustainable power production is
disappointing. While cost is important in an immediate way, the fact that our
planet is a closed system with finite resources demands a longer view IMO.
There's a clue here: <https://youtu.be/0Z760XNy4VM>.

So, while solar power production may cost more than other technologies, its
lack of negative ecological impact and sustainability clearly make it
preferable to befouling our fragile environment and critical dependence on a
dirty and finite petrochemical resource. I realize this "long view' is foreign
to casino capitalists, but thoughtful, responsible individuals have no choice
but to embrace it.

Photovoltaic systems provide a clean method of decentralizing the electrical
grid, and mitigating its vulnerability to single-point-of-failure interruptions
while providing shade in sunny environments to further reduce cooling loads.
Solar power production and electrical motive power are currently experiencing
rapid development, and as technical progress is achieved over the coming years,
it will become apparent to even the staunchest critic, that the efficiencies
achievable compared to petrochemicals and environmental compatibility make it
the clear choice for future generations.

There is more to life than money, you'll have to agree.

Best regards,
Larry


[1]
<http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/2-Mile-Long-Stretch-Of-Iraqi-Oil-Tankers-Bound-For-US-Shores.html>
Related: 2-Mile Long Stretch Of Iraqi Oil Tankers Bound For U.S. Shores

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimated earlier this year that global
fossil fuel subsidies had reached $US5.3 trillion, a figure highlighted at
$US10 million a minute to make the number more tangible. The driving force
behind this concept of subsidy is Nicholas Stern, a climate economist at the
London School of Economics. The IMF called the huge number ”extremely robust”
and the conclusion “shocking.” Stern said, “This very important analysis
shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their
real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for
fossil fuels, which distorts markets and damages economies, particularly in
poorer countries.”

To illustrate exactly how egregious this problem is, the IMF said fossil fuel
subsidies are greater than the total spending on healthcare by all the world’s
governments. If fossil fuels were not so cheap then renewable energy
alternatives would no longer require government subsidies.

[[email protected]]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2016 00:27:16 -0000, wrote:
>
>>Larry Dighera > wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:16:24 +1200, george152 > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 4/27/2016 4:39 AM, Larry Dighera wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Solar-Impulse-II-Makes-California-226128-1.html>
>>>>> Solar Impulse II Makes California
>>>>>
>>>>> Solar Impulse II completed a 56-hour leg from Hawaii to Mountain View,
>>>>> California just before midnight local time on Saturday. The aircraft, which had
>>>>> to undergo a refit in Hawaii after the epic leg from Japan wrecked its
>>>>> batteries, reportedly performed flawlessly on the trip, which ended with a
>>>>> dramatic entrance over the Golden Gate Bridge on the way to Mountain View just
>>>>> south of San Francisco. "WOW. A normal day as an explorer," the organization
>>>>> tweeted as it sent out an iconic photo of the aircraft over the bridge shot
>>>>> from a chase aircraft with founder Bertrand Piccard at the controls.
>>>>>
>>>>> "It's a new era. It's not science fiction. It's today," Piccard told CNN from
>>>>> California after landing. "It exists and clean technologies can do the
>>>>> impossible." A big window of benign weather, rare for the North Pacific, helped
>>>>> the effort and the landing was under clear skies. The Mountain View landing was
>>>>> a diversion from the scheduled U.S. arrival point of Phoenix and it's not clear
>>>>> what route the aircraft will take as it crosses the U.S. It has a major
>>>>> challenge ahead with a northern Atlantic crossing on its way to finishing the
>>>>> circumnavigation in Abu Dhabi. Video: <https://youtu.be/wQCOfuwG6ss>.
>>>>>
>>>>It's a toy.
>>>>One seat
>>>>flies at 30 odd knots
>>>>and cooks batteries in a -c environment
>>>>And is accompanied by an inflatable hangar, ground crew in commercial
>>>>airliners
>>>
>>> Personally, I wouldn't characterize it as a toy, but more like a proof of
>>> concept vehicle, to demonstrate the feasibility of harvesting the sun's energy
>>> to potentially provide clean, sustainable transportation.
>>>
>>> At any rate, if Solar Impulse II successfully flies around the world solely
>>> powered by energy from the sun, I'd equate that with Lindbergh's solo Atlantic
>>> feat, at least.
>>>
>>> At last, electric power appears to have planted its banner solidly in the
>>> fertile soil of transportation. And, hydrogen fuel makes it a clean, feasible
>>> alternative to gasoline, that can be generated by solar powered electrolysis of
>>> water (on the ground) without the pollution of petrochemical extraction and
>>> emissions. Current photovoltaic cell's limited efficiency preclude their use
>>> to power heaver than air aircraft in a practical way, but for lighter than air
>>> aircraft, they may be quiet well suited, as they won't have to provide the
>>> power to support the weight of the aircraft, only propel it.
>>>
>>> It's about time superior technology pushed aside the vested interests, and be
>>> recognized for its true benefits. Perhaps there's hope the 21st century may
>>> initiate an era that transcends politics, profiteers, and plutocrats,
>>> recognizes the limitations of a closed system, and offers long term,
>>> sustainable solutions. We can hope ...
>>
>>What vested interests would that be?
>>
>
> I was referring to the petrochemical industry, that incidentally is currently
> outrageously financially subsidized by our nation's government. [1]

The petrochemical industry makes things like plastic and fertilizer, not
electrical power.

>>
>>Perhaps the Chineses panel makers dumping panels?
>>
>
> While that may be a factor in the bankruptcies you mention below, currently it
> has resulted in reducing the cost of solar panels below $1.00 per watt:
> <http://www.ebay.com/itm/381173196624>.

Panel cost is a small fraction of the total installed cost of a solar
power system and prices are down because of a glut of panels.

>>Maybe the tax subsidies that are required before anyone with any economic
>>sense gets involved with solar power?
>>
>>Absent a fantasic improvement in solar cell efficiency, just around the
>>corner now for about a half century, solar power will remain a niche
>>technology.
>>
>>Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2015: Enecsys, QBotix, Solar-Fabrik, Soitec,
>>TSMC Solar. On the brink of being bankrupt: Spire Corporation, Andalay Solar,
>>Abengoa.
>>
>>Solar energy firms bankrupt in 2014: Areva's solar business, HelioVolt,
>>LDK, Masdar PV, SolarMax, Sopogy, TEL, Xunlight.
>
>
> Hello Jim,
>
> Your argument is pretty convincing from a narrow point of view. :-)

You mean like reality.

>
> I know you to be a knowledgeable engineer who possesses a sound mind capable of
> reasoned and insightful thoughts. But, your failure to acknowledge some of the
> fundamental parameters of the issue of clean, sustainable power production is
> disappointing. While cost is important in an immediate way, the fact that our
> planet is a closed system with finite resources demands a longer view IMO.
> There's a clue here: <https://youtu.be/0Z760XNy4VM>.

The phrase "sustainable power" is meaningless hype.

If our planet were a closed system, solar energy wouldn't work at all.

You do know the modern view is that petroleum is not dinosaurs and is
constantly being created in the Earth?

Known oil reserves are estimated to be several hundred years worth, which
should be long enough to get fusion energy and good batteries working.

Not that petroleum has much of anything to do with electrical power, but
you would need LOTS of electrical power to systhesis the things currently
made from petroleum, plus giant leaps in several technologies before
something like an electric 747 becomes possible.

> So, while solar power production may cost more than other technologies, its
> lack of negative ecological impact and sustainability clearly make it
> preferable to befouling our fragile environment and critical dependence on a
> dirty and finite petrochemical resource. I realize this "long view' is foreign
> to casino capitalists, but thoughtful, responsible individuals have no choice
> but to embrace it.

If you think "sustainable power" has no environmetal impact, you are living
in a fantasy world.

> Photovoltaic systems provide a clean method of decentralizing the electrical
> grid, and mitigating its vulnerability to single-point-of-failure interruptions
> while providing shade in sunny environments to further reduce cooling loads.
> Solar power production and electrical motive power are currently experiencing
> rapid development, and as technical progress is achieved over the coming years,
> it will become apparent to even the staunchest critic, that the efficiencies
> achievable compared to petrochemicals and environmental compatibility make it
> the clear choice for future generations.

Not everyplace has abundent sunshine and the decentralized solar power in
Hawaii, one of the few places where it is really practical, is destabilizing
the grid. A stable grid REQUIRES central control, and again, petrochemicals
have little to nothing to do with electrical power.

> There is more to life than money, you'll have to agree.

Sure, there is a roof over one's head that is heated in the winter, cooled
in the summer, clothes, food, etc.

> Best regards,
> Larry
>
>
> [1]
> <http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/2-Mile-Long-Stretch-Of-Iraqi-Oil-Tankers-Bound-For-US-Shores.html>
> Related: 2-Mile Long Stretch Of Iraqi Oil Tankers Bound For U.S. Shores

So what?

> The International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimated earlier this year that global
> fossil fuel subsidies had reached $US5.3 trillion, a figure highlighted at
> $US10 million a minute to make the number more tangible. The driving force
> behind this concept of subsidy is Nicholas Stern, a climate economist at the
> London School of Economics. The IMF called the huge number ?extremely robust?
> and the conclusion ?shocking.? Stern said, ?This very important analysis
> shatters the myth that fossil fuels are cheap by showing just how huge their
> real costs are. There is no justification for these enormous subsidies for
> fossil fuels, which distorts markets and damages economies, particularly in
> poorer countries.?
>
> To illustrate exactly how egregious this problem is, the IMF said fossil fuel
> subsidies are greater than the total spending on healthcare by all the world?s
> governments. If fossil fuels were not so cheap then renewable energy
> alternatives would no longer require government subsidies.

The US does not subsidize the petroleum industry, in fact it penalizes
the industry when the profits are deemed to be too high.

The petroleum industry has one of the lowest profit margins in industries
of all types; their total dollar profits are huge becausee the companies
are huge.


--
Jim Pennino

[Larry Dighera]

[Much snipped in the interest of brevity]


On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:21:48 -0000, wrote:
>
>If our planet were a closed system, solar energy wouldn't work at all.
>

Ah Jim, there you go demonstrating that sound mind capable of reasoned and
insightful thoughts.

I guess I need to amend my statement to exclude the full spectrum of
electromagnetic radiation.

Thanks for the correction, but it doesn't materially affect my argument.

Reasonable people know we cannot continue to dump our trash and emissions into
our environment, and expect to continue to experience the same quality of life.
>
>You do know the modern view is that petroleum is not dinosaurs and is
>constantly being created in the Earth?
>

At what rate? Please don't attempt to pull a Ted Cruz obfuscation, and attempt
to imply, that petroleum is being created at a rate adequate to replenish the
volume that is currently being extracted. :-)

>
>Known oil reserves are estimated to be several hundred years worth, which
>should be long enough to get fusion energy and good batteries working.
>

So, you appear to agree that oil is a finite resource as compared to
insolation.

Fusion is the Holy Grail, but apparently nearly as elusive.

>
>[...] giant leaps in several technologies before something like an
>electric 747 becomes possible.
>

I would be skeptical of the useful production of such an aircraft too, but the
experts (NASA) appear to believe progress toward that end is possible:
<https://www.rt.com/usa/328220-nasa-electric-plane-future/>

"Electric skies: NASA claims progress on hybrid plane engine
Published time: 7 Jan, 2016 22:14

Project engineers and researchers at the Glenn Research Center in
Cleveland, Ohio are looking at electrical systems that could either replace
or complement the current turbine engines, turning electricity into thrust.

One of the agency’s goals is to help the aircraft industry shift away from
kerosene-guzzling gas turbines, in order to reduce emissions, noise and
fossil fuel consumption.

>
>If you think "sustainable power" has no environmetal impact, you are living
>in a fantasy world.
>

I hope you aren't attempting to imply inefficient petroleum power is anywhere
near as clean as a 98% efficient electric motor. The environmental impact from
some energy technologies is more damaging than others...

>
>Not everyplace has abundent sunshine
>

But every place does have _some_ sunshine. Where there is sunshine, it is
possible to directly convert it to electricity without emissions. It's just a
matter of how much square area of photovoltaics need to be installed to meet
the particular demand.

>
>and the decentralized solar power in Hawaii, one of the few places where it
>is really practical, is destabilizing the grid.
>

If the solar installation is totally off-grid, that becomes a non-issue. The
way I see it, decentralizing electric distribution mitigates the issue of a
single point of failure (among other benefits).

It may also impact the utility companys' bottom line, but, given the fact that
So. Calif. Edison had the audacity to see that their former top executive at
Southern California Edison Co., Michael Peevey, as California Public Utilities
Commission President, that may be a good thing:
<http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-puc-peevey-20141010-story.html>

"I think Peevey started his collusion early, and he did it often," Lynch
said. "From the beginning he evidenced a complete disregard for the rules
of law and a complete interest in cozying up to utilities."

[...]

Undisclosed emails and other private conversations are representative of
the "endemic corruption" in state government created by "the imbalance" in
lobbying power between wealthy corporations and advocacy groups that speak
for consumers and utility ratepayers, said Robert Fellmeth, a regulatory
law expert and director of the Center for Public Interest Law at the
University of San Diego.

Regulators like Peevey should not hold "secret conversations" with only one
side in a pending case that they eventually will have to rule upon as both
judge and jury, Fellmeth said.


<http://fueltracker.com/content/why-you-can-no-longer-trust-public-utilities-commission-look-out-your-best-interests>

At issue is a vote that will take place at the California Public Utilities
Commission in San Francisco on Thursday, November 20. The vote will
determine if Southern California Edison will be unlawfully awarded more
than $4 billion in ratepayer dollars by the California Public Utilities
Commission. This vote is the result of secret back-room negotiations that
violate public utility law, due process, and the Fifth Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States. It is important because the 5th
Amendment protects you from being forced to pay for something you never
receive. This legal concept is known as "Just Compensation."

VOTE IN SAN FRANCISCO, THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2014

There will be a critical vote on Thursday by the two of the most powerful
appointed bureaucrats in California: Michael Peevey and Michel Florio of
the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC). The vote will decide if
the Commission should reward SCE with an unlawfully negotiated $4 billion
bailout of the failed nuclear reactors without a reasonableness hearing or
an investigation into why SCE executives intentionally installed nuclear
generators that they knew would fail.

This Federal Complaint shows how Southern California Edison and
Commissioners Florio and Peevey violated the constitutional rights of 17.4
million Californians by engaging in …

(1) Secret back-room negotiations,

(2) Judge shopping,

(3) Delaying investigations into what went wrong at San Onofre;

(4) thwarting civil investigations into the nuke failure;

(5) unlawfully seizing property (money) of California ratepayers by
allowing Southern California Edison to charge customers for electricity
that was never delivered.

(7) Permanently delaying public hearings by using procedural delays to
avoid public scrutiny, and …

(6) Forcing customers to pay extra by allowing SCE to charge for the cost
of replacement electricity -- a double-billing double whammy.



Thank you for taking the time to ponder these issues and offer your insight.
It's always a pleasure to read your views.

[[email protected]]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
>
> [Much snipped in the interest of brevity]
>
>
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 20:21:48 -0000, wrote:
>>
>>If our planet were a closed system, solar energy wouldn't work at all.
>>
>
> Ah Jim, there you go demonstrating that sound mind capable of reasoned and
> insightful thoughts.
>
> I guess I need to amend my statement to exclude the full spectrum of
> electromagnetic radiation.
>
> Thanks for the correction, but it doesn't materially affect my argument.
>
> Reasonable people know we cannot continue to dump our trash and emissions into
> our environment, and expect to continue to experience the same quality of life.

Such has been illegal in the US for decades.

Perhaps you are thinking of China, India, or Africa?


>>
>>You do know the modern view is that petroleum is not dinosaurs and is
>>constantly being created in the Earth?
>>
>
> At what rate? Please don't attempt to pull a Ted Cruz obfuscation, and attempt
> to imply, that petroleum is being created at a rate adequate to replenish the
> volume that is currently being extracted. :-)

Does it really matter if KNOWN reserves are enough for hundreds of years?

>>
>>Known oil reserves are estimated to be several hundred years worth, which
>>should be long enough to get fusion energy and good batteries working.
>>
>
> So, you appear to agree that oil is a finite resource as compared to
> insolation.

Perhaps, but the only place where there is guaranteed insolation is
above about 80,000 feet. For the Earth's surface the amount of insolation
is both latitude and climate dependant.

And as long a petroleum is available, why shouldn't we use it?

Not that petroleum has much of anything to do with electrical power.


> Fusion is the Holy Grail, but apparently nearly as elusive.
>
>>
>>[...] giant leaps in several technologies before something like an
>>electric 747 becomes possible.
>>
>
> I would be skeptical of the useful production of such an aircraft too, but the
> experts (NASA) appear to believe progress toward that end is possible:
> <https://www.rt.com/usa/328220-nasa-electric-plane-future/>
>
> "Electric skies: NASA claims progress on hybrid plane engine
> Published time: 7 Jan, 2016 22:14
>
> Project engineers and researchers at the Glenn Research Center in
> Cleveland, Ohio are looking at electrical systems that could either replace
> or complement the current turbine engines, turning electricity into thrust.
>
> One of the agency?s goals is to help the aircraft industry shift away from
> kerosene-guzzling gas turbines, in order to reduce emissions, noise and
> fossil fuel consumption.

Contrary to the childhood tales, wishing for something will not make it
come true.

The world's total usage of "fossil fuel" to power airplanes is a trivial
drop in the bucket compared to total usage; jet fuel in the US uses 8%.

>>
>>If you think "sustainable power" has no environmetal impact, you are living
>>in a fantasy world.
>>
>
> I hope you aren't attempting to imply inefficient petroleum power is anywhere
> near as clean as a 98% efficient electric motor. The environmental impact from
> some energy technologies is more damaging than others...

If you want to talk about efficiency, first discuss the 20% efficiency
of solar conversion, the efficiency of charging and discharging batteries,
and the effiency of inverters to convert solar power into something usefull.

Concider how messy solar panel manufacturing is for starters.

>>
>>Not everyplace has abundent sunshine
>>
>
> But every place does have _some_ sunshine. Where there is sunshine, it is
> possible to directly convert it to electricity without emissions. It's just a
> matter of how much square area of photovoltaics need to be installed to meet
> the particular demand.

It is also possible to make a motor from a birthday candle, a permanent
magnet, and a Zippo flint; that doesn't make it a practical source of
power.

How many square miles of forrest do you have to clear to provide solar
power in places like Washington and Oregon?


>>and the decentralized solar power in Hawaii, one of the few places where it
>>is really practical, is destabilizing the grid.
>>
>
> If the solar installation is totally off-grid, that becomes a non-issue. The
> way I see it, decentralizing electric distribution mitigates the issue of a
> single point of failure (among other benefits).

Except modern society can not be sustained totally off grid and the
batteries required to come anywhere near close would be both a huge
manufacturing problem and a huge disposal problem.

What do you do for power during winter storms that last for weeks?

Living totally off-grid is only viable for hermits living in the boondocks.

> It may also impact the utility companys' bottom line, but, given the fact that
> So. Calif. Edison had the audacity to see that their former top executive at
> Southern California Edison Co., Michael Peevey, as California Public Utilities
> Commission President, that may be a good thing:
> <http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-puc-peevey-20141010-story.html>
>
> "I think Peevey started his collusion early, and he did it often," Lynch
> said. "From the beginning he evidenced a complete disregard for the rules
> of law and a complete interest in cozying up to utilities."
>
> [...]
>
> Undisclosed emails and other private conversations are representative of
> the "endemic corruption" in state government created by "the imbalance" in
> lobbying power between wealthy corporations and advocacy groups that speak
> for consumers and utility ratepayers, said Robert Fellmeth, a regulatory
> law expert and director of the Center for Public Interest Law at the
> University of San Diego.
>
> Regulators like Peevey should not hold "secret conversations" with only one
> side in a pending case that they eventually will have to rule upon as both
> judge and jury, Fellmeth said.
>
>
> <http://fueltracker.com/content/why-you-can-no-longer-trust-public-utilities-commission-look-out-your-best-interests>

What does some crook have to do with the realities of science, engineering,
and power production and usage?

<snip>


> Thank you for taking the time to ponder these issues and offer your insight.
> It's always a pleasure to read your views.

FYI I have been closely watching the progress of solar power for several
decades now and have consistantly found that it would never pay for
itself in my lifetime, and I live in sunny southern California.



--
Jim Pennino

[Vaughn Simon[_2_]]

On 5/3/2016 5:28 PM, wrote:
(In response to: "Reasonable people know we cannot continue to dump our
trash and emissions into
our environment, and expect to continue to experience the same quality
of life."

> Such has been illegal in the US for decades.
>

Huh? Go look at the back of your car. See that open ended pipe? Think
about what comes out of that. Think about all of the millions of others
just like it.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 10:31:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>
> Doesn't Germany have the highest electricity prices in Europe?

No, because there are 81 million people in Germany, and half of
them use solar power. People with solar panels don't pay anything
for electricity, instead... the power company pays them. It's called
net metering. So you have to average the 40 million who get paid, in
with the other 40 million. The panel installations are part of the
home's equity and are transferable cash value.

It's all mute anyway, because fossil fuels are responsible for the
acidification which is destroying the worlds coral reefs now at an
accelerated pace, among other proven mass extinction events.

---

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 10:31:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>>
>> Doesn't Germany have the highest electricity prices in Europe?
>
> No, because there are 81 million people in Germany, and half of
> them use solar power. People with solar panels don't pay anything
> for electricity, instead... the power company pays them. It's called
> net metering. So you have to average the 40 million who get paid, in
> with the other 40 million. The panel installations are part of the
> home's equity and are transferable cash value.

"German consumers already pay the highest electricity prices in Europe."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/high-costs-and-errors-of-german-transition-to-renewable-energy-a-920288.html

> It's all mute anyway, because fossil fuels are responsible for the
> acidification which is destroying the worlds coral reefs now at an
> accelerated pace, among other proven mass extinction events.

Yeah, sure.


--
Jim Pennino

[[email protected]]

Vaughn Simon > wrote:
> On 5/3/2016 5:28 PM, wrote:
> (In response to: "Reasonable people know we cannot continue to dump our
> trash and emissions into
> our environment, and expect to continue to experience the same quality
> of life."
>
>> Such has been illegal in the US for decades.
>>
>
> Huh? Go look at the back of your car. See that open ended pipe? Think
> about what comes out of that. Think about all of the millions of others
> just like it.

Follow that open ended pipe back a bit; see the catalytic converter?

Follow back a bit more; see all the crap to reduce emmisions?

Ever looked under the hood of a car from the 50's?

In the LA area, air concentrations of volatile organic compounds declined
by a factor of 50 between 1962 and 2012. Nitrous oxides and ozone declined
by 70% to 80% over the same period of time.

As for "dump our trash", dairy farms now get fined for spilling milk.



--
Jim Pennino

[[email protected]]

Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Wed, 4 May 2016 17:03:56 -0000, wrote:
>
>>In the LA area, air concentrations of volatile organic compounds declined
>>by a factor of 50 between 1962 and 2012. Nitrous oxides and ozone declined
>>by 70% to 80% over the same period of time.
>
> I recall in the mid '50s in the Los Angeles area when homeowners burned their
> trash in backyard incinerators. It wasn't pretty.
>
> Then as freeway construction became completed, the air quality was so bad, that
> it hurt to inhale, eyes burned, and it was generally unbearable.
>
> Subsequently, California emissions control laws have made a very substantial
> positive impact on improving air quality, but that's not to say the air quality
> is good.

There were a LOT of changes in the law on everything; trash burning, industry,
farming, painting, vehicles, etc.

LA smog did not just come from cars and entire industries have been legislated
out of existance.

> Here's some supporting evidence:
>
> <http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-0430-air-pollution-20140430-story.html>
>
> L.A., Central Valley have worst air quality, American Lung Assn. says

Which has more to do temperature inversions due to geography than anything
else.

<snip>

> The ports of L.A. and Long Beach are the largest single source of air pollution
> in the region.

There are no solar powered ships nor 18 wheelers anywhere in the future.


--
Jim Pennino

[Vaughn Simon[_2_]]

On 5/4/2016 1:03 PM, wrote:
> Follow that open ended pipe back a bit; see the catalytic converter?
>
> Follow back a bit more; see all the crap to reduce emmisions?
>
> Ever looked under the hood of a car from the 50's?
>
> In the LA area, air concentrations of volatile organic compounds declined
> by a factor of 50 between 1962 and 2012. Nitrous oxides and ozone declined
> by 70% to 80% over the same period of time.
>
> As for "dump our trash", dairy farms now get fined for spilling milk.
>
Along with you, I applaud the progress that has been made in the past.
That said, wave your arms all you want, talk about spilled milk all you
want, the fact will remain that vehicle emissions are a major
contributor to air pollution.

[[email protected]]

Vaughn Simon > wrote:
> On 5/4/2016 1:03 PM, wrote:
>> Follow that open ended pipe back a bit; see the catalytic converter?
>>
>> Follow back a bit more; see all the crap to reduce emmisions?
>>
>> Ever looked under the hood of a car from the 50's?
>>
>> In the LA area, air concentrations of volatile organic compounds declined
>> by a factor of 50 between 1962 and 2012. Nitrous oxides and ozone declined
>> by 70% to 80% over the same period of time.
>>
>> As for "dump our trash", dairy farms now get fined for spilling milk.
>>
> Along with you, I applaud the progress that has been made in the past.
> That said, wave your arms all you want, talk about spilled milk all you
> want, the fact will remain that vehicle emissions are a major
> contributor to air pollution.

That depends on what air pollution you are talking about; 80% of volatile
organic compounds in the US, which combine with NO2 in the presense of
sunlight to produce smog, come from biological sources, e.g. trees.

If you are talking just about air pollutants generated by humans, all
transportation, cars, trucks, ships, airplanes, etc., accounts for 27%.



--
Jim Pennino

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 8:50:12 PM UTC-4, Vaughn Simon wrote:
> On 5/4/2016 1:03 PM, wrote:
> > Follow that open ended pipe back a bit; see the catalytic converter?
> >
> > Follow back a bit more; see all the crap to reduce emmisions?
> >
> > Ever looked under the hood of a car from the 50's?
> >
> > In the LA area, air concentrations of volatile organic compounds declined
> > by a factor of 50 between 1962 and 2012. Nitrous oxides and ozone declined
> > by 70% to 80% over the same period of time.
> >
> > As for "dump our trash", dairy farms now get fined for spilling milk.
> >
> Along with you, I applaud the progress that has been made in the past.
> That said, wave your arms all you want, talk about spilled milk all you
> want, the fact will remain that vehicle emissions are a major
> contributor to air pollution.

As of 2011, there are over one billion cars in operation daily
on planet earth. The implications are obvious.

---

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 8:50:12 PM UTC-4, Vaughn Simon wrote:
>> On 5/4/2016 1:03 PM, wrote:
>> > Follow that open ended pipe back a bit; see the catalytic converter?
>> >
>> > Follow back a bit more; see all the crap to reduce emmisions?
>> >
>> > Ever looked under the hood of a car from the 50's?
>> >
>> > In the LA area, air concentrations of volatile organic compounds declined
>> > by a factor of 50 between 1962 and 2012. Nitrous oxides and ozone declined
>> > by 70% to 80% over the same period of time.
>> >
>> > As for "dump our trash", dairy farms now get fined for spilling milk.
>> >
>> Along with you, I applaud the progress that has been made in the past.
>> That said, wave your arms all you want, talk about spilled milk all you
>> want, the fact will remain that vehicle emissions are a major
>> contributor to air pollution.
>
> As of 2011, there are over one billion cars in operation daily
> on planet earth. The implications are obvious.

Yes; people are more mobile than they have ever been.

There are also about 2.5 million wood stoves and heaters in the USA.

There are more 2,400 coal-fired power stations are under construction
or being planned around the world; none of them in the USA where they
are shutting down.


--
Jim Pennino

[[email protected]]

wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 8:50:12 PM UTC-4, Vaughn Simon wrote:
>> On 5/4/2016 1:03 PM, wrote:
>> > Follow that open ended pipe back a bit; see the catalytic converter?
>> >
>> > Follow back a bit more; see all the crap to reduce emmisions?
>> >
>> > Ever looked under the hood of a car from the 50's?
>> >
>> > In the LA area, air concentrations of volatile organic compounds declined
>> > by a factor of 50 between 1962 and 2012. Nitrous oxides and ozone declined
>> > by 70% to 80% over the same period of time.
>> >
>> > As for "dump our trash", dairy farms now get fined for spilling milk.
>> >
>> Along with you, I applaud the progress that has been made in the past.
>> That said, wave your arms all you want, talk about spilled milk all you
>> want, the fact will remain that vehicle emissions are a major
>> contributor to air pollution.
>
> As of 2011, there are over one billion cars in operation daily
> on planet earth. The implications are obvious.

Nope, less than 800 million cars; you are counting trucks and buses.

--
Jim Pennino

[george152]

On 5/5/2016 2:47 AM, wrote:
> On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 10:31:05 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>>
>> Doesn't Germany have the highest electricity prices in Europe?
>
> No, because there are 81 million people in Germany, and half of
> them use solar power. People with solar panels don't pay anything
> for electricity, instead... the power company pays them. It's called
> net metering. So you have to average the 40 million who get paid, in
> with the other 40 million. The panel installations are part of the
> home's equity and are transferable cash value.
>
> It's all mute anyway, because fossil fuels are responsible for the
> acidification which is destroying the worlds coral reefs now at an
> accelerated pace, among other proven mass extinction events.

News
The toy has broken down again

[Vaughn Simon[_2_]]

On 5/25/2016 4:12 PM, george152 wrote:
> News
> The toy has broken down again

It can't be too broke, it's in the air right now.

Still, this is "bleeding edge" technology and "stuff" is bound to
happen. That's how we learn.

[[email protected]]

Vaughn Simon > wrote:
> On 5/25/2016 4:12 PM, george152 wrote:
>> News
>> The toy has broken down again
>
> It can't be too broke, it's in the air right now.
>
> Still, this is "bleeding edge" technology and "stuff" is bound to
> happen. That's how we learn.

I gave up trying to find any technical details on their web site for
all the hurrah for us hype and green propaganda so it is difficult to
tell just how much of the thing is actually "bleeding edge" technology.

Solar cells and lithium batteries have been around for a while, so unless
the thing has custom motors or batteries not yet on the market, I would
hardly call it "bleeding edge" technology.


--
Jim Pennino

[george152]

On 5/26/2016 12:34 PM, wrote:
> Vaughn Simon > wrote:
>> On 5/25/2016 4:12 PM, george152 wrote:
>>> News
>>> The toy has broken down again
>>
>> It can't be too broke, it's in the air right now.
>>
>> Still, this is "bleeding edge" technology and "stuff" is bound to
>> happen. That's how we learn.
>
> I gave up trying to find any technical details on their web site for
> all the hurrah for us hype and green propaganda so it is difficult to
> tell just how much of the thing is actually "bleeding edge" technology.
>
> Solar cells and lithium batteries have been around for a while, so unless
> the thing has custom motors or batteries not yet on the market, I would
> hardly call it "bleeding edge" technology.
>
>
Its a scam.
The slowest ever way to get around the world for one pilot.
Should be that it lands, maintenance carried out, restocked, pilot swap
and off again in a matter of hours not bloody weeks or months.

[george152]

On 5/26/2016 9:53 AM, Vaughn Simon wrote:
> On 5/25/2016 4:12 PM, george152 wrote:
>> News
>> The toy has broken down again
>
> It can't be too broke, it's in the air right now.

At the time I posted it was broke

> Still, this is "bleeding edge" technology and "stuff" is bound to
> happen. That's how we learn.
No. There's no edge and no learning required.
It's a toy.
Single seat. No payload. Cruising speed lower than stalling speed on a
real aircraft.