LS3a vs Pegasus

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Well, what do you think? I'm in the market and both are available with the LS having a higher asking price by a couple of thousand. Assuming similar trailers and instruments, is there a significant performance difference? Most Peg owners seem to love them and there is the DG/LS "tax" to consider. From what I've been able to gather, the Pegasus "hard to get parts" issue is mostly a myth. I have no time in flapped ships but not against them by any means. I'm currently flying an ASW 15.

[[email protected]]

They are both easy to fly with a light stick (ailerons). The 3 seat is the most comfortable I have experienced. Handicap shows the 3 a bit better (.94 vs .955) and it lands slower with flaps down. Both have drum brakes, but they can be made acceptable by adding soft shoes and tuning (spiking the shoes). Hard to tape the 3 wing-fuselage,but the the Peg has a nice faring. I'd take the one with the best gelcoat. Oh, one more thing. The Peg has a good forward hinged canopy with instrument panel on canopy. The 3 has a floppy loose forward hinged canopy and the instrument panel doesn't raise. The 3 panel is not very large and hard to get long instruments in.
I'm sure you will enjoy either ship,
JJ

[[email protected]]

I would choose the one with automatic control connections.

Thanks, Bob K.
https://www.facebook.com/HP-24-Sailplane-Project-200931354951/

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:48:23 -0700, bob.kuykendall wrote:

> I would choose the one with automatic control connections.
>
> Thanks, Bob K.
> https://www.facebook.com/HP-24-Sailplane-Project-200931354951/
>
The Pegasus 90 has self-connecting controls all round. All the 101 models
use Hoteliers for wing controls and some have one on the elevator as well.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Sierra Whiskey]

I certainly enjoy flying my LS-3A. JJ hit the nail on the head when he said it is the most comfortable glider to sit in. Comfort was important to me as I have conducted multiple 700+ km OLC flights in it. I find that the seat shape and size accommodates pilots of all sizes.

One great feature of the LS-3A is the ease of retracting and deploying the landing gear. I have no worries about leaving the gear retracted while scratching out in a weak thermal knowing that once I commit to landing and run the checklist the gear will deploy with ease with one hand. The gear handle is on the same side as the flaps and spoilers which keeps your right hand on the stick.

I have found the performance of the LS-3A to not only be suitable for great OLC flights, but it is also quite competitive in the "Club Class." It is really comfortable in a long glide and cruise, and handles excellent in weak lift conditions. The flaps do take their toll in "handicap" however I have found that their effect in tightening up a turn within the core of a thermal often times allows me to out-climb even some of the more modern ships.

One thing I have been playing with lately is flying more frequently with water ballast. It is amazing how well the LS-3A handles, thermals, and cruises with water ballast on-board. When carrying water the LS-3A straight glide is fast and level which is great for running cloud streets in southern Arizona.

When I committed to purchasing my LS-3A I did give up one "must have" option which was automatic control hook-ups. I will be honest, this has never once bothered me. Follow the assembly procedures, do a positive control check, and you will be fine.

Last note, the most important part of the glider is really not the glider. In the end all the gliders are the same, it is just how efficiently you fly it. The most important part of the glider is the trailer IMHO. I would recommend buying a slightly older and slightly rougher glider with a great trailer than a great glider with a horrible trailer. Wait until you land out your own glider for the first time and see what gets you and your crew out of the field before the sun sets, a nice gel coat or a nice trailer...

Read up on the LS/DG maintenance agreement and what is required.

Either way you cant go wrong. Members of our club have a Pegasus and seem to love it and fly well in them.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 8:31:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Well, what do you think? I'm in the market and both are available with the LS having a higher asking price by a couple of thousand. Assuming similar trailers and instruments, is there a significant performance difference? Most Peg owners seem to love them and there is the DG/LS "tax" to consider. From what I've been able to gather, the Pegasus "hard to get parts" issue is mostly a myth. I have no time in flapped ships but not against them by any means. I'm currently flying an ASW 15.

- Not sure where do you fly, but Ls-3a in Midwestern, less than desirable, conditions would always beat the me in a thermal - I flew asw-19, which apart from a French designed airfoil isn't too far off from the Pegasus. I always envied the other pilot flying Ls-3 turning in thermals I kept falling out of. It was no competition between the two of us flying, same with run, simple gear change in the Ls-3 left me behind and lower. It convinced me I wanted a flapped ship.
The only down side was the weight of the wing on Ls-3. When he was pulling fuselage out of the trailer, entire gaggles used to scramble, leaving behind only children, elder and unenlightened...

[[email protected]]

Let me know if your going to sell your 15, I would be interested in it if you put her up for sale.
Dan

[Dan Marotta]

Regarding trailers - how often to you need the trailer to get you out of
a field? If you land out often, go for a great trailer, otherwise go
for a great glider. I've never seen a well maintained glider in a
crappy trailer. Anyone who takes good care of his equipment will do
likewise with the trailer.


On 4/26/2016 2:17 PM, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
> I certainly enjoy flying my LS-3A. JJ hit the nail on the head when he said it is the most comfortable glider to sit in. Comfort was important to me as I have conducted multiple 700+ km OLC flights in it. I find that the seat shape and size accommodates pilots of all sizes.
>
> One great feature of the LS-3A is the ease of retracting and deploying the landing gear. I have no worries about leaving the gear retracted while scratching out in a weak thermal knowing that once I commit to landing and run the checklist the gear will deploy with ease with one hand. The gear handle is on the same side as the flaps and spoilers which keeps your right hand on the stick.
>
> I have found the performance of the LS-3A to not only be suitable for great OLC flights, but it is also quite competitive in the "Club Class." It is really comfortable in a long glide and cruise, and handles excellent in weak lift conditions. The flaps do take their toll in "handicap" however I have found that their effect in tightening up a turn within the core of a thermal often times allows me to out-climb even some of the more modern ships.
>
> One thing I have been playing with lately is flying more frequently with water ballast. It is amazing how well the LS-3A handles, thermals, and cruises with water ballast on-board. When carrying water the LS-3A straight glide is fast and level which is great for running cloud streets in southern Arizona.
>
> When I committed to purchasing my LS-3A I did give up one "must have" option which was automatic control hook-ups. I will be honest, this has never once bothered me. Follow the assembly procedures, do a positive control check, and you will be fine.
>
> Last note, the most important part of the glider is really not the glider. In the end all the gliders are the same, it is just how efficiently you fly it. The most important part of the glider is the trailer IMHO. I would recommend buying a slightly older and slightly rougher glider with a great trailer than a great glider with a horrible trailer. Wait until you land out your own glider for the first time and see what gets you and your crew out of the field before the sun sets, a nice gel coat or a nice trailer...
>
> Read up on the LS/DG maintenance agreement and what is required.
>
> Either way you cant go wrong. Members of our club have a Pegasus and seem to love it and fly well in them.

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

The lack of auto hook ups doesn't concern me too much. My 15 has manual connections with safety sleeves and I am careful about checking them multiple times before flying. It sounds like a coin toss and I'll have to go look at the ships. I don't compete but do enjoy ridge flying in PA. Faster cruise with flaps in an 3a vs, softer more comfortable wings in a Peg. Decisions, decisions.

[Eric Munk]

LS-3 also has very poor performance with dirt or wet wings. Pégase does
not have this.

As Centrair has just let owners know, parts issue is going to be an issue
in the future (though to this date they have always delivered) as the
future of the company is not known at this time.

[IA DPE]

I really wanted a Pegase, but I weigh 225 lbs, and best as I can tell by the POH, max pilot weight of a 101 is 185. This is max weight of non lifting surfaces minus empty weight.

If someone can show me different I'll certainly listen!

[gkemp]

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 8:18:32 PM UTC-7, IA DPE wrote:
> I really wanted a Pegase, but I weigh 225 lbs, and best as I can tell by the POH, max pilot weight of a 101 is 185. This is max weight of non lifting surfaces minus empty weight.
>
> If someone can show me different I'll certainly listen!

Never weighed under 245 lbs, put in a tail tank and flew it for years including 1000K

gary kemp

[gkemp]

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 8:18:32 PM UTC-7, IA DPE wrote:
> I really wanted a Pegase, but I weigh 225 lbs, and best as I can tell by the POH, max pilot weight of a 101 is 185. This is max weight of non lifting surfaces minus empty weight.
>
> If someone can show me different I'll certainly listen!

Never weighed under 245, put in a tail tank and flew it for years including my 1000K

gary kemp

[[email protected]]

I just looked at a digital copy of a manual and it listed max load at 260 lbs. Where did you get the 185 number?

[Eric Munk]

At 03:18 28 April 2016, IA DPE wrote:
>I really wanted a Pegase, but I weigh 225 lbs, and best as I can tell by
>the POH, max pilot weight of a 101 is 185. This is max weight of non
>lifting surfaces minus empty weight.
>
>If someone can show me different I'll certainly listen!
>

This varies per aircraft. Depends on the actual empty weight of non-lifting
components (fuselage, stabilizer), and therefore damage history and
equipment fitted. I have two in maintenance with a 225+ lbs max weight (227
and 231). 242 (and a bit) is maximum load per design specifications
(seatbelts and attachment) if max non-lifting is not reached before that.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 at 4:51:47 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Let me know if your going to sell your 15, I would be interested in it if you put her up for sale.
> Dan

I noticed your interest in an ASW-15B. Mine is for sale and is posted on Wings & Wheels. Jack