Microsoft Surface 4 as Laptop Replacement for Soaring Pilots?

[Papa3[_2_]]

Typical of a lot of soaring pilots, I'm swimming in devices these days (Smartphone, Tablet [Kindle], Work Laptop, Personal Laptop). I'm thinking of doing away with the Kindle and Personal Laptop and switching to a Surface 4. My requirements:

- USB Input/Output (file transfers to loggers, Flarm, Clearnav etc)
- Wifi (for those soaring devices that do/will support it and for Internet Access at contests)
- Full MS Office (so I can still see/work on documents I need for work in a pinch while I'm away)
- Supports all major soaring applications (SeeYou, Google Earth, etc.)

The Surface seems to be the answer.

Any other ideas? Note: I'm not an Apple guy, so that's out - hate being tethered to iTunes. Other tablets seem to either lack full MS Office support or are short a "regular" USB port. I hate having to carry more cables and adapters than I already do.

Note: No longer worried about communicating with old serial devices like GPSNavs; gave all those away at htis point.

P3

[Dan Marotta]

Look into Open Office. It's free to download and supports all of the MS
Office formats.


On 5/3/2016 9:38 AM, Papa3 wrote:
> Typical of a lot of soaring pilots, I'm swimming in devices these days (Smartphone, Tablet [Kindle], Work Laptop, Personal Laptop). I'm thinking of doing away with the Kindle and Personal Laptop and switching to a Surface 4. My requirements:
>
> - USB Input/Output (file transfers to loggers, Flarm, Clearnav etc)
> - Wifi (for those soaring devices that do/will support it and for Internet Access at contests)
> - Full MS Office (so I can still see/work on documents I need for work in a pinch while I'm away)
> - Supports all major soaring applications (SeeYou, Google Earth, etc.)
>
> The Surface seems to be the answer.
>
> Any other ideas? Note: I'm not an Apple guy, so that's out - hate being tethered to iTunes. Other tablets seem to either lack full MS Office support or are short a "regular" USB port. I hate having to carry more cables and adapters than I already do.
>
> Note: No longer worried about communicating with old serial devices like GPSNavs; gave all those away at htis point.
>
> P3
>

--
Dan, 5J

[noel.wade]

As an IT professional with 20 years of experience, I understand the comment about swimming in devices! I have owned a surface Pro 3 for A couple of years now. It has totally replaced my other devices, both Mac and PC - except for gaming. The surface Pro 4 is even better. I am currently working to deploy as the standard device for my entire 300+ person company. Only downside to the surface is the limits on the battery. If you are just opening and closing it to do basic web browsing off and on, or periodic emails, then the battery can last most of the day. However, at full screen brightness and multiple office applications open (or watching full screen video), you'll only get ~3 hours of battery. But the form-factor is great, the keyboard is good, and the pen is very handy (your fingers work fine on the touchscreen; but many Windows programs are not designed for touch and therefore have small icons or buttons that are easier to hit with the stylus).

Hope this info helps!

--Noel

[Tim Horbury]

I've had a Surface Pro 4 for work for a couple of months and in general it
is a fantastic device. I would agree about battery life, it's not an
all-day machine unless you are very careful. I have had some problems with
sleeping and hibernation but overall I'm happy.

It's pretty pricey though; I think if I were looking at something to take
to the airfield, I'd consider a Surface 3 although it has a bit less oomph.
Longer battery life, no fan to clog with mud, full Windows, quite a bit
cheaper.

All the Surface tablets have MicroSD slots, which is handy for some
loggers.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 8:38:05 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
> Typical of a lot of soaring pilots, I'm swimming in devices these days (Smartphone, Tablet [Kindle], Work Laptop, Personal Laptop). I'm thinking of doing away with the Kindle and Personal Laptop and switching to a Surface 4. My requirements:
>
> - USB Input/Output (file transfers to loggers, Flarm, Clearnav etc)
> - Wifi (for those soaring devices that do/will support it and for Internet Access at contests)
> - Full MS Office (so I can still see/work on documents I need for work in a pinch while I'm away)
> - Supports all major soaring applications (SeeYou, Google Earth, etc.)
>
> The Surface seems to be the answer.
>
> Any other ideas? Note: I'm not an Apple guy, so that's out - hate being tethered to iTunes. Other tablets seem to either lack full MS Office support or are short a "regular" USB port. I hate having to carry more cables and adapters than I already do.
>
> Note: No longer worried about communicating with old serial devices like GPSNavs; gave all those away at htis point.
>
> P3

I don't consider myself either apple, Microsoft or Linux guy, due to my work nature I have many computers and consider MS Surface as one of the worst investments one can make. The pro version with i7 processor I was handed to write and test software on, retails for $1700 and personally I wouldn't pay half of this with my own money. First of all, full charge battery capacity deteriorates in matter of months without anything you would consider abusive usage it divides by half. Second, Windows... many options of this computer don't work as they are taken out of the box. Try signing in for Microsoft money or link etrade account to it and you will be informed that MS no longer supports these and many more features/applets. Windows 10 is a major improvement over win 8, but is lacking in many areas and Microsoft can't really decide and stick to any direction. Third, i7 it really heats up on tasks that don't require all that much processing power even further shortening battery charge. And lastly ergonomics, it is a matter of preference, but I really hate this floppy keyboard and monitor that is too small to consider it a computer and use it effectively for extensive typing and working, yet it is too big for tablet.
I run windows 7 on virtual box on my 13 inch macbook pro and can pipe any usb/serial communication through oracle vb. Macbook paired with retina display and all apple love/hate nonsense aside, is superb to any currently offered ms product out there both performance and wallet wise.

[JS]

I always have a tablet for specific work stuff.
Seen a few Surface computers, thought them a bit flimsy for work in the field. Been quite happy with a Motion Computing R12. Much better than other Motion tablets owned: M1200 and LE1600. The vintage 2002 M1200 is still alive, but that's about it.
But the R12 is not glider pilot friendly, as it actually costs money. This one was $2600 without a 4G modem. They're built for rugged field work. Sunlight visibility is good.
I disable the touch screen so it doesn't do anything odd while climbing around and holding it. It's been dropped, rained on and laughs about it. The pen works great. Personally wouldn't want to type on anything without a real keyboard though.
Jim

[[email protected]]

I'm using a droid maxx with a $3 OTG cable adaptor to upload and post to and from my PowerFlarm and SN 10. I use it for everything, email, txt, phone internet access all free apps. I haven't opened my old laptop for years now :)

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 5:39:29 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I'm using a droid maxx with a $3 OTG cable adaptor to upload and post to and from my PowerFlarm and SN 10. I use it for everything, email, txt, phone internet access all free apps. I haven't opened my old laptop for years now :)

Unfortunately that won't solve the problem of editing spreadsheets and creating PowerPoint presentations. I'm still gainfully employed (well, employed) and often need to work on proposals and such while I'm at a gliding contest. So, a full sized (or nearly full sized) keyboard, screen, and MS Office tools with ability to load VPN software is pretty much required.

Jim, I've played with Motion devices and they're wicked cool. Unfortuantely, I'd also need a separate keyboard and mouse, and I already have a nice enough stand alone tablet.

[Sean[_2_]]

They are excellent. We have a surface book and it's been very solid.

[[email protected]]

I work for a small airline with just under 4000 pilots and to the last pilot we've had nothing but problems with our Surface pro 3's. It may be the Jepesen app. but the thing freezes up and crashes multiple times per day. The pilots who (unofficially) flew with iPads previously swear by them. The battery on the Surface is WILDLY unpredictable with run times that will magically dwindle before your eyes. I use my Surface only for Jepesen charts and company manuals with battery saver on and all background apps closed. I would never buy one.
DT

[Sean[_2_]]

For the record there is a considerable difference between the surface book and the surface pro "x". I have heard complaints about the pro in the past but as it was a fairly new product was not surprised. Now they are on the 4th edition, Surface Pro 4. I would have hoped the initial growing pains were solved. Perhaps not. The surface book is, unlike the Pro, a high end and very powerful machine. The pro is something between a laptop and microsofts answer to an iPad. I imagine your airline tried to load it up with some fairly intensive software and the Surface Pro 3 (can be bought with several speed processors, etc) was overwhelmed. But for occasional, light, simple native Windows applications such as SeeYou or SN10 utilities it is still probably OK. For the record I am not a Windows or Microsoft fan...

[noel.wade]

Yes, there is a HUGE difference between the Surface and the Surface Pro line. And there is also a huge jump in the first three generations of the Surface Pro line. I have a Pro 3 at home and a Pro 4 at work. The Pro 3 is decent for casual use. A mid-level or high end Surface Pro 4 can replace your home computer for most things (just hook up an external monitor or two, a mouse & keyboard, and you're good to go). And the keyboard-cover and pen for the Pro 4 are vastly better than the Pro 3 units.

The Surface Book is Microsoft's answer to the MacBook Pro and iPad Pro all in a "single" device. I don't totally get it myself; but my MacBook Pro is getting old so we'll see what I buy next. Haven't been as impressed with Apple in the last 2-3 years as I was durIng their tremendous run from 2006-2014.

--Noel

[Paul Ruskin[_2_]]

I've just come back from five weeks' gliding with a Surface Pro 4 as my main computer. I think it's great. Runs See You, can download from loggers, edit waypoint files and so on. Runs LXSim and Styler. Has all my data and tools from my main PC. Also acts as an entertainment system - plug it into a TV and run Netflix, iPlayer etc.

I have an iPad which I read the papers on - but I wouldn't use it for any of the gliding stuff.

Paul