Becker AR 4201 or Microair 760 Transceiver

[Steve B]

Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?

Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker,
just curious if the Microair is a good unit?

Thanks
Steve

[Pete Brown]

I have a Microaire in my AC-5M. When the engine is running
for self launch, its a high noise, high vibration
environment. The Microaire works great and I have no
complaints whatsoever. Further, a friend just put one in his
Pilatus B-4 last month and and his works great as well.

Some guys who have reported problems have installed them
themselves. 95% of the times the problems relate to antenna
or installation connections, not the radio (Microaire or any
other.) Have a good avionics shop install it properly and
you likely will have no problems.


--

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/

[Steve B]

The AC 5M... is that the Russia self launch ship? How do you like it
regarding permormance, starting sequence, handling? Do you have many
hours in it? I have seen the design in pictures but not heard about it
or been able to see one.

Gracious for the comments on the Microaire...

Steve


Pete Brown > wrote in message >...
> I have a Microaire in my AC-5M. When the engine is running
> for self launch, its a high noise, high vibration
> environment. The Microaire works great and I have no
> complaints whatsoever. Further, a friend just put one in his
> Pilatus B-4 last month and and his works great as well.
>
> Some guys who have reported problems have installed them
> themselves. 95% of the times the problems relate to antenna
> or installation connections, not the radio (Microaire or any
> other.) Have a good avionics shop install it properly and
> you likely will have no problems.

[Chris OCallaghan]

I have had the Microair, Becker, and a Dittel in my gliders over the
past 4 years. I am wholly unimpressed with the performance of the
Microair (variable quality from unit to unit). The Becker worked fine.
Dittel was by far the best, both in performance and standby power use,
though I preferred the interface on the Becker (more intuitive).

(Steve B) wrote in message >...
> Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?
>
> Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker,
> just curious if the Microair is a good unit?
>
> Thanks
> Steve

[Martin Hellman]

> Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?
>
> Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker,
> just curious if the Microair is a good unit?

I just replaced a Terra radio with a Becker and had considered the
Microair. Decided to spend the extra bucks on the Becker due to
indications that the Microair wasn't as high quality. Having wasted
money on the Terra, I didn't want to repeat the mistake. Can't say it
would have been a mistake for sure, but thought my experience
relevant. The Becker has performed admirably.

There may be a difference depending on whether you just need a radio
for being heard within a few miles of the airport on CTAF or for
contacting FSS, Flight Watch, etc. at much greater distances. In the
latter cases, you need as good a radio as possible.

Another factor to consider is installation cost. Once you add that in,
the price difference between the two shrinks somewhat. I'm constantly
amazed at how much avionics installations cost, particularly if you're
certificated and need to get a 337. In that event, picking a radio
that is also installed as a factory option can save much headache -
and dollars.

Martin

[Pete Brown]

I really like the Russia. We did have to work through some
new design problems initially with the engine and prop but
once we got the bugs worked out, its a great little ship
that thermals nearly like a 1-26 but glides at ~34-35/1.
Its very responsive in pitch and roll and a delight to fly.
It has a relatively high wing loading so it moves out when
you put the nose down. We have just just less than 40 hours
on it and had hoped to fly off our experimental phase 1
restrictions this weekend but the weather stinks.

Ground handling is easy because the thing is so light..ours
is about 420 lbs empty and I can easily push it out to the
runway myself.

When the engine has been stowed for a while, it takes quit a
bit of priming to get fuel into the carb and with our model,
the prop must be spinning quickly to get the necessary
updraft to draw the fuel into the cylinder. (This has been
changed with the new models.) Its no longer a problem but
initially it drove us a bit nuts. Now that we understand the
procedure, starting is easy. (Sometimes, something is lost
in the translation in the manual from Russian to English.)
Air starts after the engine has been running are easy.

The airfoil profile is very accurate and the glider is very
stout and well made. (Dick Our major complaint has been
with the tires that leak. We threw out the tail wheel and
replaced it with a plastic hub and Tost tail wheel from
Wings and Wheels and solved the tail wheel problem. Our main
wheel just has to be filled more often than we like. This
winter we will take it off and through some bead sealant
around the rim and see if it solves that problem.

One word to potential owners...motorgliders require a lot
more maintenance than you ever thought about on a regular
sailplane. Cables and drive belts stretch and require
adjustment, prop hubs require retorqueing, the vibration of
a single cylinder engine shakes things loose, etc, etc. Its
endemic to the species regardless of the model and you need
to be committed to keep them maintained. They are not fly
and forget.

Also, the appeal of self launching is self evident but it
can lead to a trap. Just like with 4 wheel drive on a car,
you can be tempted to go places you wouldn't go in a regular
vehicle, but when you get a 4X4 stuck off the road, you
really have a problem. The accident rate in self launchers
is pretty high, in part because guys wait too long to
restart and once the engine is out, handling and performance
can change radically. Discretion is the better part of valor.

Pete Brown


Steve B wrote:
> The AC 5M... is that the Russia self launch ship? How do you like it
> regarding permormance, starting sequence, handling? Do you have many
> hours in it? I have seen the design in pictures but not heard about it
> or been able to see one.

Peter D. Brown
http://home.gci.net/~pdb/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/akmtnsoaring/

[David Kinsell]

"Steve B" > wrote in message om...
> Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?
>
> Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker,
> just curious if the Microair is a good unit?
>

Just had a Microair die after about two years in a club ship. No
warranty stations in the US, has to be shipped back to Australia
for failures covered by warranty. Radio has excellent transmit
and receive quality when it's working, if you have the right mike.
Controls are tiny, not very intuitive to use, and are time-sensitive.
Not a great choice for a club environment, but a private owner
would get used to the limitations. Becker is definitely a better
radio if you want to spend the cash.

Dave Kinsell

[Andrew Warbrick]

What I was getting at is that the Microair is more
sensitive to a very slightly low battery voltage than
most glider instruments. When I press the PTT the LX160
does not complain about low battery voltage which means
it's not going below 10V.

My main battery is a 12V 12Ah Yuasa, it was new in
March and has only been charged about a dozen times
with an appropriate battery charger. It is expected
to run an Ipaq (up to 2A more likely 0.5A) an LX160s,
the radio and from time to time an artificial horizon
(peak current 2A, 1.6A when running) it will run all
of this kit for up to eight hours (tested in flight).
This probably causes the battery voltage to fall to
round about 10.5-11V after about 3 hours use. This
is enough to upset the Microair. The fin battery is
12V 7Ah made up of two 6V 7Ah Yuasa batteries, it also
was new in March but I keep it as a backup to ensure
I'm never without a horizon in the event of the main
battery going down, I've had to resort to using the
fin battery to power the radio because that's the only
way to get reliable transmission out of the Microair.

There could be two possible causes for this. The voltage
out of the main battery is down slightly under load
and the Microair doesen't like it. Or, another device
is putting electrical noise on the 12V line and the
Microair doesen't like that.

I'm not going to go for a 14V battery, strapping a
mismatched 2V cell to a 12V battery is a truly awful
solution to bady designed instruments that won't work
properly with a 12V battery.

We have similar problems with the Microair 760 fitted
to one of the club's Puchacz, if the battery voltage
is slightly low the radio won't transmit even though
the vario and turn and slip work fine.

At 14:54 01 September 2003, Cdubya wrote:
>Here's a simple test for you. Put a voltmeter across
>the battery terminals
>of the fin battery and record the voltage when you
>key the radio. Then do
>the same on your main battery which you said works
>fine. You will most
>likely see a lower reading on the fin battery. If
>the battery no longer has
>the capacity to trade current for voltage than this
>test will show that.
>The radios have voltage regulators in them but they
>need something to
>regulate. Usually a volt or two above the desired
>output. I am betting a
>new battery is all you need. Craig
>
>
>
>Andrew Warbrick wrote in message
...
>> My Microair seems to be very sensitive to low battery
>> voltage and to noise on its power supply. It receives
>> fine connected to either battery but I can only transmit
>> successfully when it's connected to my fin battery
>> and the main battery is running everything else. I'm
>> considering a 12 to 15V DC to DC converter to keep
>> it happy but at about 50 pounds it will be a pricey
>> fix (though not as pricey as buying a Becker).
>>
>> At 19:06 30 August 2003, Dfkroesch wrote:
>> >I traded in a Microair that I was unhappy with for
>> >a Becker that I have been
>> >very happy with...That was the expensive way to buy
>> >a Becker.
>> >
>> >Some people seem to have good luck with their Microairs
>> >and a lot of others do
>> >not.
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>

[cdubya]

Here's a simple test for you. Put a voltmeter across the battery terminals
of the fin battery and record the voltage when you key the radio. Then do
the same on your main battery which you said works fine. You will most
likely see a lower reading on the fin battery. If the battery no longer has
the capacity to trade current for voltage than this test will show that.
The radios have voltage regulators in them but they need something to
regulate. Usually a volt or two above the desired output. I am betting a
new battery is all you need. Craig



Andrew Warbrick > wrote in message
...
> My Microair seems to be very sensitive to low battery
> voltage and to noise on its power supply. It receives
> fine connected to either battery but I can only transmit
> successfully when it's connected to my fin battery
> and the main battery is running everything else. I'm
> considering a 12 to 15V DC to DC converter to keep
> it happy but at about 50 pounds it will be a pricey
> fix (though not as pricey as buying a Becker).
>
> At 19:06 30 August 2003, Dfkroesch wrote:
> >I traded in a Microair that I was unhappy with for
> >a Becker that I have been
> >very happy with...That was the expensive way to buy
> >a Becker.
> >
> >Some people seem to have good luck with their Microairs
> >and a lot of others do
> >not.
> >
>
>

[Andy Durbin]

(Steve B) wrote in message >...
> Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?
>
> Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker,
> just curious if the Microair is a good unit?
>
> Thanks
> Steve

I have a Microair in my ASW-28. It has a front panel squelch control
that can be very useful for shutting out chatter from distant sites
while still leaving the volume high enough to hear safety calls from
proximate gliders. Other "top of the line" glider radios have no
pilot adjustable squelch.

I am happy with mine except that I still have not resolved a problem
that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted and unreadable,
while most are clear even when very close.

Andy (GY)

[Mike Borgelt]

On 3 Sep 2003 02:03:49 -0700, (Andy Durbin)
wrote:

(Steve B) wrote in message >...
>> Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?
>>
>> Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker,
>> just curious if the Microair is a good unit?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Steve
>
>I have a Microair in my ASW-28. It has a front panel squelch control
>that can be very useful for shutting out chatter from distant sites
>while still leaving the volume high enough to hear safety calls from
>proximate gliders. Other "top of the line" glider radios have no
>pilot adjustable squelch.
>
>I am happy with mine except that I still have not resolved a problem
>that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted and unreadable,
>while most are clear even when very close.
>
>Andy (GY)

I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
Kingaroy a few months ago.

Mike Borgelt

[Steve Pawling]

Andy,

I have the same situation that you described with my Microair. Just
about every glider sounds different and I sure appreciate those with
"tight" radios. I agree with Mike Borgelt's reply that the other
radios are not up to par.

Overall the Microair has performed well (except for the excessive
sensitivity) but I would rate the quality of finish and external
components (judged by the feel of the pots, etc.) as only average. My
old Dittel was really nice...

Steve
LS-3a AM

snip
>
> I am happy with mine except that I still have not resolved a problem
> that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted and unreadable,
> while most are clear even when very close.
>
> Andy (GY)

[Ray Lovinggood]

I have a Microair in my glider and there are a couple
of gliders in our club that I can't understand transmissions
coming from their radios.

One is equipped with an (identical?) Microair and the
other is equipped with either a Dittel or a Becker.
Other gliders hear them fine. All I hear is a garbled
message. I can usually determine who is speaking by
the sound of their voice, but I can't distinguish the
words.

I do plan on taking the glider to a radio shop and
have them check it out, including the antenna.

Is it my radio or the others? I suspect it is my radio
since others here the 'garblers' clearly. They all
say my transmissions are clear.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS-1d (In need of a snorkle this year...)


At 12:36 04 September 2003, Andy Durbin wrote:
>Mike Borgelt wrote in message > >
>> >I have a Microair in my ASW-28. It has a front panel
>>>squelch control
>> >that can be very useful for shutting out chatter from
>>>distant sites
>> >while still leaving the volume high enough to hear
>>>safety calls from
>> >proximate gliders. Other 'top of the line' glider
>>>radios have no
>> >pilot adjustable squelch.
>> >
>> >I am happy with mine except that I still have not
>>>resolved a problem
>> >that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted
>>>and unreadable,
>> >while most are clear even when very close.
>> >
>> >Andy (GY)
>>
>> I think your problem is actually in the other gliders.
>>The MicroAir
>> receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet
>>the older
>> specifications but may have a problem talking to a
>>MicroAir receiver.
>> I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking
>>about at
>> Kingaroy a few months ago.
>>
>> Mike Borgelt
>
>Mike,
>
>I suspect you are right nut I have not yet been able
>to confirm with
>frequency measurements.
>
>Is the MicroAir designed with a narrow IF passband
>to support 12.5kHz
>channel spacing? It only allows selection of 25kHz
>channels. If that
>is the case perhaps they would consider a design change
>to widen the
>IF passband.
>
>Has Australia changed to 12.5kHz spacing?
>
>Andy (GY)
>

[Tim Newport-Peace]

X-no-archive: yes
In article >, Mike Borgelt
> writes
>
>I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
>receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
>specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
>I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
>Kingaroy a few months ago.
>
>Mike Borgelt
>
Mike, what exactly are you saying by narrow band? Is the Microair
8.33Khz spacing (which we are threatened with)?

Tim Newport-Peace

"May you be cursed with a chronic anxiety about the weather."

John Burroughs (1837-1921).

[Mike Borgelt]

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:58:44 +0100, Tim Newport-Peace ]>
wrote:

>X-no-archive: yes
>In article >, Mike Borgelt
> writes
>>
>>I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
>>receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
>>specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
>>I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
>>Kingaroy a few months ago.
>>
>>Mike Borgelt
>>
>Mike, what exactly are you saying by narrow band? Is the Microair
>8.33Khz spacing (which we are threatened with)?
>
>Tim Newport-Peace
>
>"May you be cursed with a chronic anxiety about the weather."
>
>John Burroughs (1837-1921).


I'm not sure of the exact details but the implication was that the
MicroAir was tighter than required for 25Khz spacing. I'll ask.

Mike Borgelt

[Mike Borgelt]

On 4 Sep 2003 04:43:44 -0700, (Andy Durbin)
wrote:

>Mike Borgelt > wrote in message > >
>> >I have a Microair in my ASW-28. It has a front panel squelch control
>> >that can be very useful for shutting out chatter from distant sites
>> >while still leaving the volume high enough to hear safety calls from
>> >proximate gliders. Other "top of the line" glider radios have no
>> >pilot adjustable squelch.
>> >
>> >I am happy with mine except that I still have not resolved a problem
>> >that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted and unreadable,
>> >while most are clear even when very close.
>> >
>> >Andy (GY)
>>
>> I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
>> receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
>> specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
>> I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
>> Kingaroy a few months ago.
>>
>> Mike Borgelt
>
>Mike,
>
>I suspect you are right nut I have not yet been able to confirm with
>frequency measurements.
>
>Is the MicroAir designed with a narrow IF passband to support 12.5kHz
>channel spacing? It only allows selection of 25kHz channels. If that
>is the case perhaps they would consider a design change to widen the
>IF passband.
>
>Has Australia changed to 12.5kHz spacing?
>
>Andy (GY)

We have not changed to 12.5Khz spacing.
I suggest if you are having problems that you email the MicroAir
people direct. Ian Mugen is the manager of the MicroAir factory and he
is a glider pilot from New Zealand.
MicroAir is owned by the people who also own and run the Jabiru
aircraft and engine factory. I know them all and I'm sure if you let
them know they'll help. They can't fix what they don't know about.

Mike Borgelt

[Andy Durbin]

Mike Borgelt > wrote in message > We have not changed to 12.5Khz spacing.
> I suggest if you are having problems that you email the MicroAir
> people direct. Ian Mugen is the manager of the MicroAir factory and he
> is a glider pilot from New Zealand.
> MicroAir is owned by the people who also own and run the Jabiru
> aircraft and engine factory. I know them all and I'm sure if you let
> them know they'll help. They can't fix what they don't know about.
>
> Mike Borgelt

Thank Mike,

I exchanged some email with them on this problem earlier this year. I
have delayed follow-up action until the end of the soaring season.

Until I participated in this thread I didn't know that others were
experiencing the same problem. That's useful information.

Will anyone that has a MicroAir, and has receive signal distortion on
only a few specific transmitters, please contact me giving me the
serial number of the MicroAir and, if possible, the make and model of
the problem transmitter(s).


thanks

Andy (GY)

[David Kinsell]

"Andrew Warbrick" > wrote in message ...

> What I was getting at is that the Microair is more
> sensitive to a very slightly low battery voltage than
> most glider instruments.

Radios >>in general<< are more sensitive to low voltage
than other glider instruments.


> When I press the PTT the LX160
> does not complain about low battery voltage which means
> it's not going below 10V.


If you read your specs, the normal operating voltage is
listed as 13.8 volts, and "emergency minimum" is
listed at 10.5. Any radio you're likely to buy for a glider
has serious problems transmitting below 11 volts, either
distortion or total failure to transmit. If you are down at
10-11 volts, that certainly is not "very slightly" below
the rated voltage of the radio.


> My main battery is a 12V 12Ah Yuasa, it was new in
> March and has only been charged about a dozen times
> with an appropriate battery charger. It is expected
> to run an Ipaq (up to 2A more likely 0.5A) an LX160s,
> the radio and from time to time an artificial horizon
> (peak current 2A, 1.6A when running) it will run all
> of this kit for up to eight hours (tested in flight).
> This probably causes the battery voltage to fall to
> round about 10.5-11V after about 3 hours use. This
> is enough to upset the Microair.

You're making guesses about the battery voltage. You
don't really know what the battery voltage is, and you
don't really know about the losses in the other parts of the
electrical system. Measuring the voltage at the radio during
the failure to transmit is the only way to actually diagnose the
problem. Certainly can do that on the ground after a long
flight, or a simulated long flight.


> The fin battery is
> 12V 7Ah made up of two 6V 7Ah Yuasa batteries, it also
> was new in March but I keep it as a backup to ensure
> I'm never without a horizon in the event of the main
> battery going down, I've had to resort to using the
> fin battery to power the radio because that's the only
> way to get reliable transmission out of the Microair.
>
> There could be two possible causes for this. The voltage
> out of the main battery is down slightly under load
> and the Microair doesen't like it. Or, another device
> is putting electrical noise on the 12V line and the
> Microair doesen't like that.

Or one of the cells in the main battery got damaged from
being dropped. Or you have defective wiring. Or you get
significant drops from diodes that people like to sprinkle into
multi-battery systems. Or one of your many switches has
bad contacts. Or you've got a slow-blow fuse with excessive
resistance. These are just a few of the possibilities. There
is absolutely no substitute for measuring the voltage, and then
studying the specs in your manual.


> I'm not going to go for a 14V battery, strapping a
> mismatched 2V cell to a 12V battery is a truly awful
> solution to bady designed instruments that won't work
> properly with a 12V battery.

Gosh, I've got 7 perfectly matched cells in a battery that
fits in the tail fin, powers the whole panel for 6 hours no
problem. I haven't seen less than 13.5 volts, during transmit,
at the end of long flights. Never has glitched the flight recorder,
and I don't have to be distracted with flipping switches during
the flight to try to find enough juice to keep things powered.
There is a certain elegance in using a proper battery in the first
place. Let's see, 14 volt radio, 14 volt battery. No wonder it
works so good.

Starting with a battery two volts too low, then slapping on
a DC-DC converter to try to compensate for undiagnosed
problems in your electrical system doesn't strike me as
an elegant solution.


> We have similar problems with the Microair 760 fitted
> to one of the club's Puchacz, if the battery voltage
> is slightly low the radio won't transmit even though
> the vario and turn and slip work fine.

That's just the way radios work, if you have an inadequate
electrical system. They're the first to fail due to low voltage.
Dittels and Beckers don't work at low voltage either.

Dave Kinsell

[Bert Willing]

You actually can display the battery voltage on the LX160 for this pupose,
and do that while you transmitt on the radio (or, at least trying to...)

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"David Kinsell" > a écrit dans le message de
news:_6F7b.306778$Oz4.99624@rwcrnsc54...
>
> "Andrew Warbrick" > wrote in
message ...
>
> You're making guesses about the battery voltage. You
> don't really know what the battery voltage is, and you
> don't really know about the losses in the other parts of the
> electrical system. Measuring the voltage at the radio during
> the failure to transmit is the only way to actually diagnose the
> problem. Certainly can do that on the ground after a long
> flight, or a simulated long flight.
>

[Eric Greenwell]

In article <_6F7b.306778$Oz4.99624@rwcrnsc54>,
says...
> Or one of the cells in the main battery got damaged from
> being dropped. Or you have defective wiring. Or you get
> significant drops from diodes that people like to sprinkle into
> multi-battery systems. Or one of your many switches has
> bad contacts. Or you've got a slow-blow fuse with excessive
> resistance. These are just a few of the possibilities. There
> is absolutely no substitute for measuring the voltage, and then
> studying the specs in your manual.

Dave is right. It is amazing how a seemingly properly wired panel can
drop 0.1 volt here, 0.1 volt there, and pretty soon you are talking
about significant drops. Fuses, push-on connectors, switches, wires,
crimp connections, everything takes it's toll, and it's all
exacerbated when transmitting.

If you do discover an excessive drop, start chasing it down, a wire
and connection at a time. It might be necessary to replace the battery
if the drop is there, or replace/remove/revise unneeded connections,
fuses, etc. If you are diligent enough, you might eliminate enough of
the drops to retain a 12 volt system. I'm not a fan of 14 volt
systems, but I've used them, and they can increase your margins.
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly

Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)

[Joe Lacour]

I'm re-painting some gel coat spots on my LS and was wondering what
everyone is using for the red trim color. The original stuff is Nitro
Cellulose Lacquer. So, I call up the local body shop only to find that
lacquer is on it's way out of major production. Too bad as it's nice
stuff to work with, cheap, light, can be put on thin, and easy to
patch. I've found some by looking on the internet but it only comes in
one color red and gallons.

I'm also re-finishing the elevator and would like to sand the gelcaot
and paint it with lacquer. Won't add weight that way.

The LS also has some red tape to blend the seal on the rudder. Any
idea where to get this red tape?
--
Joe LaCour
KineOptics
120 Golden Pheasant Dr.
Slidell, LA 70461-3116

985-649-0602
Optical & Mechanical Instrument design/fabrication
http://www.kineoptics.com/

[Ralph Jones]

On 13 Sep 2003 18:00:07 GMT, Joe Lacour
> wrote:

>I'm re-painting some gel coat spots on my LS and was wondering what
>everyone is using for the red trim color. The original stuff is Nitro
>Cellulose Lacquer. So, I call up the local body shop only to find that
>lacquer is on it's way out of major production. Too bad as it's nice
>stuff to work with, cheap, light, can be put on thin, and easy to
>patch. I've found some by looking on the internet but it only comes in
>one color red and gallons.
>
>I'm also re-finishing the elevator and would like to sand the gelcaot
>and paint it with lacquer. Won't add weight that way.
>
>The LS also has some red tape to blend the seal on the rudder. Any
>idea where to get this red tape?

Nitrocellulose lacquer is model airplane dope -- the older nitrate
type. It's comparatively little used today because glow-engine fuels
attack it, but the larger hobby dealers have it -- and if you can't
find nitrate, the newer butyrate dope is usually compatible with it.
Buy a small sample, test it on an out-of-the-way spot, and you should
be able to get a color match with a little mixing.

rj

[wsburhen]

you could also use acrylic laquer, which has huge advantages over over
nitro and no real disadvantage (it can be shot very thin) or a
basecoat/clearcoat
system, while a bit more work, can also be done thin/light and will be
many times more durable than nitrocellulose. Either of these two
systems can be EXACTLY color matched and are locally available
anywhere at an autobody supply store. Try Ditzler Duracryl for acryl
laquer, or Deltron for b/c system, or other types by Sikkens,
Martin-Senor, Glasurit, etc.

[Joe Lacour]

Yea, that's what I thought but apparently Acrylic Lacquer is being
phased out here in the states. I have located some custom paint
companies in the US but there is only one red and one white. Lacquer
is so easy to use, light, thin, used to be cheap, and like you said
patches perfect. If anyone knows a source, I'd appreciate hearing
about it. For the mean time on this little red spot, I found a spray
can that is a very close match. If I can't find any Acrylic Lacquer,
I'll finish working the elevator in Gelcoat. Thanks!

> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring
> Subject: Re: LS-4 Red Trim paint color
> Author: Wsburhen >
> Date/Time: 17:00 15 September 2003
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> you could also use acrylic laquer, which has huge advantages over over
> nitro and no real disadvantage (it can be shot very thin) or a
> basecoat/clearcoat
> system, while a bit more work, can also be done thin/light and will be
> many times more durable than nitrocellulose. Either of these two
> systems can be EXACTLY color matched and are locally available
> anywhere at an autobody supply store. Try Ditzler Duracryl for acryl
> laquer, or Deltron for b/c system, or other types by Sikkens,
> Martin-Senor, Glasurit, etc.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>