S80 issues

[[email protected]]

so I made the ultimate dumb move - I updated a working IT device right before I went to a contest. It has not worked since.........

To be fair - I did not update the firmware correct off the bat (should have ready the Manuel better)

Now - on the ground it looks like it will work fine - as soon as I take off - I get a circle of red dots that are all the same size (so it's not the thermal helper) - and if I press the middle mode button it moves through the different modes but you only know this because the upper right side has the mode name. I still get Vario sound, but no FLarm, Task or .........

I would love to go back in time and put the original firmware but LXNAV only want me to update with the current firmware.

Any suggestions??

WH1

[[email protected]]

I bought my S80 from Paul Remde and he provided hands on help to correct the problem.
Be aware that once I correctly updated the software the S80 ended up with all the factory settings.

[Craig Funston]

It may be similar to the new firmware for the S7 which adds an "enhanced" flarm display. You can turn that off in the menu. It's worth downloading the latest version of the manual to see what's changed.

Good luck with the vario & at the contest.

Craig
7Q

[Richard[_9_]]

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 6:22:44 AM UTC-7, Craig Funston wrote:
> It may be similar to the new firmware for the S7 which adds an "enhanced" flarm display. You can turn that off in the menu. It's worth downloading the latest version of the manual to see what's changed.
>
> Good luck with the vario & at the contest.
>
> Craig
> 7Q

I also had the problem and worked with LXNAV to solve the issus.

Upgrade to the latest firmware for S8, S80
indicator 5.44
sensor box 5.46

www.lxnav.com/firmware.html

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the help.

When I get a little time I will write so "Helpful hints" - I believe it is a case (as in much software) that the Manuel is written by people who know the product too well, so the instructions have holes.

My Main HINT - after you update the firmware - check to be sure the PCAS is NOT enabeled. The ring of red dots screen that are NOT in the Manuel - are PCAS. I have a transponder so it was warning me about my own transponder

Hopefully it is now fixed :)

I will write more early next week

WH1

[[email protected]]

Does installing new firmware HAVE to require resetting all selections to the factory default? There is obviously a file of some sort included in the chip that retains preferences when you turn the S80 off with the required switch (top knob, press for three seconds).

I spent a fair amount of time selecting parameters, units, glider and polar, Nav Boxes, airspace and waypoint files etc.

Do I have to do it every time I upgrade the firmware? Why not let the internal selection file remain unless there is some compelling reason it has to be changed?

Generally, I love the S80, but there are literally hundreds of selectable parameters, meaning each firmware upgrade puts you back in the baby crib, having to relearn all the procedures to get the instrument operating the way it did on your last flight. Just another wonderful headache for a contest pilot. I don't fly in competition, but it is still a pain.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:38:35 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> so I made the ultimate dumb move - I updated a working IT device right before I went to a contest. It has not worked since.........
>
> To be fair - I did not update the firmware correct off the bat (should have ready the Manuel better)
>
> Now - on the ground it looks like it will work fine - as soon as I take off - I get a circle of red dots that are all the same size (so it's not the thermal helper) - and if I press the middle mode button it moves through the different modes but you only know this because the upper right side has the mode name. I still get Vario sound, but no FLarm, Task or .........
>
> I would love to go back in time and put the original firmware but LXNAV only want me to update with the current firmware.
>
> Any suggestions??
>
> WH1

Your vario might be stack in the thermal mode.

[Surge]

On Thursday, 16 June 2016 14:38:35 UTC+2, wrote:
> so I made the ultimate dumb move - I updated a working IT device right before I went to a contest. It has not worked since.........

Ouch. If it's not broken and I don't need the latest gizmo I leave things alone.
Don't fix what isn't broken.
The S80 isn't an Internet connected device that needs to have the latest security patches installed so why bother updating it?

Q: When one performs a firmware upgrade does one need to re-enter the AHRS enable code again?

[Per Carlin]

I upgraded my S80 to 5_45 / 5_44 a few weeks ago, also got a bunch of extra features. Both desired and undesired.
Most annoying is the undercarriage warning. It is also annoying that all settings are lost when updating fw, I have email this to LX and they have put it on the to-do list.

There is so many settings in the configuration that I had to do a checklist with all important parameters documented. Please feel free to use it:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1UxuSOMVN49V0kxNGdPUEJpbzQ/view?usp=sharing

I have just hooked up the trailer on the car, going to competition this weekend. I will not try the new fw until I see positive feedback. I get the feeling that Ls lets us customers do the beta testing, as almost all fw updates introduces new bugs.

[[email protected]]

Really Liked the S80 when I installed it - I AGREE WITH AN EARLIER POST...IF IT IS NOT BROKEN...DO NOT FIX IT.

I am not sure what feature I got that is better..... the gear door warning is anoying.

The update als changed some settings...... i.e. enabeled PCAS - so it was useless for several flights and only came on when flying.

I am not using it for Tasks or navigation - I just wanted to know if the air is rising .... verify airspeed.... what is the win:) lol (if it works today)


WH1

[Richard[_9_]]

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 4:33:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Really Liked the S80 when I installed it - I AGREE WITH AN EARLIER POST...IF IT IS NOT BROKEN...DO NOT FIX IT.
>
> I am not sure what feature I got that is better..... the gear door warning is anoying.
>
> The update als changed some settings...... i.e. enabeled PCAS - so it was useless for several flights and only came on when flying.
>
> I am not using it for Tasks or navigation - I just wanted to know if the air is rising .... verify airspeed.... what is the win:) lol (if it works today)
>
>
> WH1

The latest firmware solves the gear warning problem

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[[email protected]]

Per-

Very handy checklist. Thanks for making it available.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Friday, June 17, 2016 at 7:33:15 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> Really Liked the S80 when I installed it - I AGREE WITH AN EARLIER POST...IF IT IS NOT BROKEN...DO NOT FIX IT.
>
> I am not sure what feature I got that is better..... the gear door warning is anoying.
>
> The update als changed some settings...... i.e. enabeled PCAS - so it was useless for several flights and only came on when flying.
>
> I am not using it for Tasks or navigation - I just wanted to know if the air is rising .... verify airspeed.... what is the win:) lol (if it works today)
>
>
> WH1

If you only want to know if air is rising then why did you buy S80?

[[email protected]]

So since I began this string, let me tell you where it all ended - it is a good ending.

LXNAX (Toni) was very helpful. My Issues:

1. I think the Manuel is a little lite on problem solving.
2. I was lazy not reading and memorizing the Manuel.
3. The firmware update changed some settings (the PCAS got enabled, bad idea if you have a transponder) and the PCAS screen is NOT in the Manuel.
4. they use the term Password for a code that is more of a command.
5. it is unclear that there are more steps to complete the update.

My S80 is now working well and as advertised :) - I am very happy. I updated at a time I should not have (before a contest), so really the frustration was my own doing.

I still get an Gear Warning - but that's fine - I check it again, so no problem - it is an OK reminder - maybe I will hook it up someday :)

[ZP]

We are all beta testers with this product. Every time you update to a new version, don't just check that the problem you encountered was fixed, you should also go through each of the existing features and make sure the change didn't break something that used to work. This seems to be the norm unfortunately.

All that being said I've been pretty happy with mine, except one major feature that is missing... nearest airports. Someone claimed that it is there but I couldn't find it. Can we collectively put pressure on LX Nav to provide that feature in a future release?

[6X]

Try select from quick access menu.

[ZP]

I tried that. Didn't work for me. I went to the 'waypoint' page, selected the bottom right button, and then hit "select". I only get the option for spelling out a waypoint name of my choice.

The obvious thing to check first is whether a GPS signal is getting to the unit. I verified it had a GPS fix and it was giving me guidance information to a selected waypoint, so the unit was getting the necessary GPS data to generate a 'nearest' list.

[6X]

Sorry not near my ship to verify but it is there. Current version of manual says select near is available in WPT mode only via quick select in that mode. Requires current software version (released in May). I am sure that Richard or Paul can verify.

[Steve Parker[_2_]]

I see there was another firmware issue on 20th.June.

[Greg Delp]

Here is a short youtube video of the nearest feature. This was today after updating to the latest firmware. It works the same as the last few firmware updates.

https://youtu.be/qu80UoTaUqI

Are you sure you are updating the firmware on both the vario display as well as the "computer"? The vario and display update automatically when you insert the updates on the sd card. The "computer" must be updated via the password menu with 89891 as a password then follow the prompts to update. It takes several steps and will then confirm a successful update.

[Greg Delp]

I tried posting this before but it disappeared into the unknown so if it shows up twice I apologize.

Here's a short video of the Nearest feature on my S80. I had just updated to the latest firmware yesterday but it has had the nearest feature for a few firmware versions back. "Select Near" should be right under "Select"

https://youtu.be/qu80UoTaUqI

If Select Near is not there, are you sure you are following the complete firmware update procedure? The display and vario firmware update automatically when you insert an SD card with them on it. However you must update the "computer" portion of the unit using the password menu and a password of 89891. There will be several steps to follow to select the firmware update you want to install and then it will confirm if you have successfully updated the "computer" I hope this helps. If not let us know and maybe we can figure it out.

I'd like to have the list sorted by arrival altitude as well as distance. I'd also like the landable way points change colors red yellow or green on the map if you can glide to them or not.

[Greg Delp]

Select Nearest Feature

https://youtu.be/qu80UoTaUqI

[[email protected]]

SO another issue:

I have the S80- almost where I really like everything. But when I got a warning yesterday while in a pretty tight gaggle the PCAS came back on, even though I have it disabled????? so I had to turn the S80 off and back on to get the PCAS to go away.

ps. Does anyone find the Thermal helper useful - A few people I talked to do not.

WH1

[ZP]

I updated to the latest firmware and am very happy to see the nearest feature now! Excellent!

FYI, the gear warning alarm can no longer be tested on the ground. I'm guessing it requires the airspeed to be non-zero. Before, I used a small momentary switch that simulates gear up while on the ground and it allowed me to test the gear alarm prior to flight. Not a big deal really. Air brake warning can be tested however.

[Greg Delp]

If you really need to test it you can run the airspeed up carefully with a large syringe and appropriate tubing. Be careful you don;t pump in too much pressure.

A safer method is to just go to the menu under Hardware and Digital Inputs and check that the boxes for input 1 and 2 are green when the selected statements are true and red when they aren't. This checks your switches and as long as the firmware hasn't been updated if the warnings worked before they should work again.

[Greg Delp]

On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 7:04:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> SO another issue:
>
> I have the S80- almost where I really like everything. But when I got a warning yesterday while in a pretty tight gaggle the PCAS came back on, even though I have it disabled????? so I had to turn the S80 off and back on to get the PCAS to go away.
>
> ps. Does anyone find the Thermal helper useful - A few people I talked to do not.
>
> WH1

Bill,

I find the assistant distracting especially if it is set to automatically pop up when circling. I'm usually looking at either the Way point or Task page to better keep track of my exit or arrival altitude. The beep for alerting the strongest part of the thermal I find even more annoying so it's turned off.

[[email protected]]

My personal issue is with getting two superimposed aircraft symbols (usually pointing in different directions) on the Flarm screen. I suspect it is because the S80 is displaying both a Flarm input and a transponder signal, although I was led to believe that XPDR signals were merely distance and altitude.

Any hints?

Also, I really hope that LX will find a way to save and reincorporate user settings when upgrading firmware as opposed to resetting everything to factory defaults. There are a LOT of fields to reset!

[ZP]

Greg, I too don't like the thermal helper. I turned it off.

The next minor nit I'd like to see changed is to get temperature displayed on the INFO page. There are very few times I'd like to know the outside temp, but when I do, I have to use a field on one of the major pages to display it which I don't want to do. Right now the INFO page displays flight level AND altitude which is totally redundant and available on other instruments, so those fields would be a prime candidate to use as temperature. I'd much prefer to use INFO page for less needed information that I can't get somewhere else like temperature when I want to see it. Of course, a configurable INFO page would answer everyone's needs.

[Greg Delp]

Outside Air Temp is on the info page for me. Not sure what firmware version that became available.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/66126228@N08/c5za78

[ZP]

awesome! how did i miss that? thanks greg. and thanks to lx nav for a great vario. it is amazing how much functionality is packed into that thing.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 9:21:23 AM UTC-7, ZP wrote:
> awesome! how did i miss that? thanks greg. and thanks to lx nav for a great vario. it is amazing how much functionality is packed into that thing.


I'm loving my S80, one big reason is because I don't have fiddle much with my Oudie anymore (I don't like tapping on a screen) other than to change the map scale occasionally. Instead I prefer to use bottons and knobs to change any info I want to change on the BRIGHT screen of the S80.
Anyway, after the most recent firmware upgrade the thermal assist is not working like it used to, pretty much useless now in fact. Anyone else having this issue? I've set the thermal assist to all of the selected inputs and get the same result, bubbles popping up randomly around the circle that don't seem to correspond to anything useful.

[[email protected]]

I had issues with the upgrade and was writing allot to LXNAV and talking to people - seems most are in agreement the Thermal helper is no help. I have disabled that mode on my S80. I told this to LXNAV and they sort of agreed that they need to make it better.

But as a Vario and for the info it provided - I like the S80 :) - I do not use the task or way-point functions either - I wish there were a way to make the second screen on those two modes the primary screen - then I would like it much better - every one seems to use a tablet/PDA/...... to navigate and task - not sure why they chose to do that on a Vario. I would gladly trade that for the Artificial Horizon (but I am not paying 900 bucks for a key to turn on what already exists on the device (IT hostage stuff :))

WH

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 7/7/2016 4:50 AM:
> I do not use the task or way-point functions either - I wish there
> were a way to make the second screen on those two modes the primary
> screen - then I would like it much better - every one seems to use a
> tablet/PDA/...... to navigate and task - not sure why they chose to
> do that on a Vario.

I use an Air Avionics Display S (formerly Butterfly vario), which has a
navigation screen. I generally have it set to my "safety" airport/field,
with the distance to go and height above glideslope infoboxes on the
vario screen; the soaring computer is left on the task or next waypoint.
A glance at the panel keeps me informed of my situation without fiddling
with either device.

The navigation page also serves as a backup, should the soaring computer
fail.

I would gladly trade that for the Artificial
> Horizon (but I am not paying 900 bucks for a key to turn on what
> already exists on the device (IT hostage stuff :))

I get it - you'd rather remove the instrument from your panel, ship it
to them, wait a week or two or three for it to be modified, eventually
returned to you, so you can enjoy the effort of putting it back in the
panel? And still pay $900?

My suggestion: remove the instrument from your panel, set it on the
shelf, buy the $900 license, and after three weeks, re-install it and
apply the license! There, just like the good old days ;^)

Nowadays, the biggest cost is not the hardware, but the software
development, and that makes it cheaper to give you all the hardware, and
charge you for only the functions you desire. It's not a hostage
situation; it's better customer service when they can instantly provide
an upgrade with an email, instead of you returning the instrument for
the upgrade.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[[email protected]]

>
> I would gladly trade that for the Artificial
> > Horizon (but I am not paying 900 bucks for a key to turn on what
> > already exists on the device (IT hostage stuff :))
>
> I get it - you'd rather remove the instrument from your panel, ship it
> to them, wait a week or two or three for it to be modified, eventually
> returned to you, so you can enjoy the effort of putting it back in the
> panel? And still pay $900?
>
> My suggestion: remove the instrument from your panel, set it on the
> shelf, buy the $900 license, and after three weeks, re-install it and
> apply the license! There, just like the good old days ;^)
>


Ouch! - this site always seems to end up in a negative place - that is why so many pilots I know do not write on it - but I think there is a huge knowledge base so.............

1. You did not get it - I do not want to take my instrument out ... nor send it to anyone for upgrades ... it is fine where it is, thank you.

2. as you wrote - "charge you for only the functions you desire" - I desire the AFH and do not desire the Navigation - even swap :) I wish I had that choice. That was the only point I was attempting to make.

I like LXNAX - and Like my S80 - there are always issues with new technical instruments - discussion is the only way to evolve............. and since people come here for honest suggestions, I am assuming your suggestions was not a suggestion at all, it was sarcasm, but I could be wrong :) but this blog is world renowned for sarcasm.

WH

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 7/8/2016 7:43 AM:
> I am assuming your suggestions was not a suggestion at all, it was
> sarcasm, but I could be wrong:) but this blog is world renowned for
> sarcasm.

It was humor - thus the smiley. I was remarking on your objection to
paying for a feature that you said was being held "hostage" by pointing
out buying a license is a superior way to add a feature, compared to
what we had to do in the past. It's now a common method used by many
instrument and software vendors.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 10:29:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 9:21:23 AM UTC-7, ZP wrote:
> > awesome! how did i miss that? thanks greg. and thanks to lx nav for a great vario. it is amazing how much functionality is packed into that thing.
>
>
> I'm loving my S80, one big reason is because I don't have fiddle much with my Oudie anymore (I don't like tapping on a screen) other than to change the map scale occasionally. Instead I prefer to use bottons and knobs to change any info I want to change on the BRIGHT screen of the S80.
> Anyway, after the most recent firmware upgrade the thermal assist is not working like it used to, pretty much useless now in fact. Anyone else having this issue? I've set the thermal assist to all of the selected inputs and get the same result, bubbles popping up randomly around the circle that don't seem to correspond to anything useful.

I found an issue with the way I was running my S80 and wanted to report. If you are having issues with the thermal assist or it is not switching from SC to Thermal consistently, then check to see if you are sending GPS to it from more that one device. I noticed on the info page that the GPS status was changing about every second and so checked the settings on my Oudie to make sure it wasn't sending it's GPS to the S80. I unchecked one of the settings on the Oudie and that stopped it. As a result I got my Thermal Assist back to working well, and also got rid of thermal/speed command switching problems. I'm still wishing for a good manual for the instrument, it's unfortunate to have to spend an entire soaring season sorting through issues.. That is the only issue I have with it though.