Cobra Trailer Tow Chain Attach Points

[Oscar-Hotel-Mike]

I just purchased a glider housed in a 2002 Cobra trailer. It came with only one chain (I always use two crossed chains) and the chain is attached to one of the bolts that connects the tongue to the trailer (big honking steel U strap over the tongue inside the trailer). According to the owner this was installed at the Cobra factory.

Here is a picture of the chain's external attachment points. Note that I upgraded to grade 10 bolts replacing the original Cobra bolts.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20741943/Cobra%20Trailer%20Chains.jpg

The question is, is this a good/best attachment point for chains? It would seem that a sharp jolt puts a high lateral force on the bolt at the weakest "threaded portion". I also saw this same setup in the linked picture at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/qZozCKh9GP8/FKmbkTjMBAAJ.

I see other Cobra owners with chains attached via a shackle to the V shaped bracket holding the jockey wheel/post. While this is a beefy bracket, is that a good place? Is another chain location even better?

PS - Is is true that Europeans don't even use chains? Seems just CRAZY to me as you would have a deadly unguided missile if it were to come off the ball.

Thanks, John

[JS]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 8:13:24 AM UTC-7, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
> I just purchased a glider housed in a 2002 Cobra trailer. It came with only one chain (I always use two crossed chains) and the chain is attached to one of the bolts that connects the tongue to the trailer (big honking steel U strap over the tongue inside the trailer). According to the owner this was installed at the Cobra factory.
>
> Here is a picture of the chain's external attachment points. Note that I upgraded to grade 10 bolts replacing the original Cobra bolts.
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20741943/Cobra%20Trailer%20Chains.jpg
>
> The question is, is this a good/best attachment point for chains? It would seem that a sharp jolt puts a high lateral force on the bolt at the weakest "threaded portion". I also saw this same setup in the linked picture at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/qZozCKh9GP8/FKmbkTjMBAAJ.
>
> I see other Cobra owners with chains attached via a shackle to the V shaped bracket holding the jockey wheel/post. While this is a beefy bracket, is that a good place? Is another chain location even better?
>
> PS - Is is true that Europeans don't even use chains? Seems just CRAZY to me as you would have a deadly unguided missile if it were to come off the ball.
>
> Thanks, John

Believe it's not that chains are not used, but they are not legal in Europe..
Nor is a crude 4-wire electrical system sharing brake and turn lights.
All Euro trailers have brakes. American regulations were created for trailers without brakes. Now that is crazy!
That attach point is good, if the bolts are tight and not rusty. It will distribute the load to the same place as in normal use.
Jim

[[email protected]]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 11:13:24 AM UTC-4, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
> I just purchased a glider housed in a 2002 Cobra trailer. It came with only one chain (I always use two crossed chains) and the chain is attached to one of the bolts that connects the tongue to the trailer (big honking steel U strap over the tongue inside the trailer). According to the owner this was installed at the Cobra factory.
>
> Here is a picture of the chain's external attachment points. Note that I upgraded to grade 10 bolts replacing the original Cobra bolts.
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20741943/Cobra%20Trailer%20Chains.jpg
>
> The question is, is this a good/best attachment point for chains? It would seem that a sharp jolt puts a high lateral force on the bolt at the weakest "threaded portion". I also saw this same setup in the linked picture at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/qZozCKh9GP8/FKmbkTjMBAAJ.
>
> I see other Cobra owners with chains attached via a shackle to the V shaped bracket holding the jockey wheel/post. While this is a beefy bracket, is that a good place? Is another chain location even better?
>
> PS - Is is true that Europeans don't even use chains? Seems just CRAZY to me as you would have a deadly unguided missile if it were to come off the ball.
>
> Thanks, John

I use 2 chains bolted to the primary structure independent of tongue mounting with the solid portion of the 1/2 inch bolt going through the chain and the lock nut on the inside.
FWIW
UH

[[email protected]]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 4:43:59 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 11:13:24 AM UTC-4, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
> > I just purchased a glider housed in a 2002 Cobra trailer. It came with only one chain (I always use two crossed chains) and the chain is attached to one of the bolts that connects the tongue to the trailer (big honking steel U strap over the tongue inside the trailer). According to the owner this was installed at the Cobra factory.
> >
> > Here is a picture of the chain's external attachment points. Note that I upgraded to grade 10 bolts replacing the original Cobra bolts.
> >
> > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20741943/Cobra%20Trailer%20Chains.jpg
> >
> > The question is, is this a good/best attachment point for chains? It would seem that a sharp jolt puts a high lateral force on the bolt at the weakest "threaded portion". I also saw this same setup in the linked picture at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/qZozCKh9GP8/FKmbkTjMBAAJ.
> >
> > I see other Cobra owners with chains attached via a shackle to the V shaped bracket holding the jockey wheel/post. While this is a beefy bracket, is that a good place? Is another chain location even better?
> >
> > PS - Is is true that Europeans don't even use chains? Seems just CRAZY to me as you would have a deadly unguided missile if it were to come off the ball.
> >
> > Thanks, John
>
> I use 2 chains bolted to the primary structure independent of tongue mounting with the solid portion of the 1/2 inch bolt going through the chain and the lock nut on the inside.
> FWIW
> UH

In the UK braked (i.e. pretty much all) trailers and caravans must have a break away cable that applies the hand brake if the trailer coupling comes off the ball. The cable is attached to a point on the towbar by a clip that is strong enough to apply the hand brake but weak enough to brake away allowing the vehicle and trailer to separate and leaving the trailer to stop on its own.

I wouldn't fancy being followed by an uncoupled unbraked trailer attached by a strong chain

[[email protected]]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 4:43:59 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 11:13:24 AM UTC-4, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
> > I just purchased a glider housed in a 2002 Cobra trailer. It came with only one chain (I always use two crossed chains) and the chain is attached to one of the bolts that connects the tongue to the trailer (big honking steel U strap over the tongue inside the trailer). According to the owner this was installed at the Cobra factory.
> >
> > Here is a picture of the chain's external attachment points. Note that I upgraded to grade 10 bolts replacing the original Cobra bolts.
> >
> > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20741943/Cobra%20Trailer%20Chains.jpg
> >
> > The question is, is this a good/best attachment point for chains? It would seem that a sharp jolt puts a high lateral force on the bolt at the weakest "threaded portion". I also saw this same setup in the linked picture at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/qZozCKh9GP8/FKmbkTjMBAAJ.
> >
> > I see other Cobra owners with chains attached via a shackle to the V shaped bracket holding the jockey wheel/post. While this is a beefy bracket, is that a good place? Is another chain location even better?
> >
> > PS - Is is true that Europeans don't even use chains? Seems just CRAZY to me as you would have a deadly unguided missile if it were to come off the ball.
> >
> > Thanks, John
>
> I use 2 chains bolted to the primary structure independent of tongue mounting with the solid portion of the 1/2 inch bolt going through the chain and the lock nut on the inside.
> FWIW
> UH

In the UK braked (i.e. pretty much all) trailers and caravans must have a break away cable that applies the hand brake if the trailer coupling comes off the ball. The cable is attached to a point on the towbar by a clip that is strong enough to apply the hand brake but weak enough to break away allowing the vehicle and trailer to separate and leaving the trailer to stop on its own.

I wouldn't fancy being followed by an uncoupled unbraked trailer attached by a strong chain

[Casey[_2_]]

> In the UK braked (i.e. pretty much all) trailers and caravans must have a break away cable that applies the hand brake if the trailer coupling comes off the ball. The cable is attached to a point on the towbar by a clip that is strong enough to apply the hand brake but weak enough to break away allowing the vehicle and trailer to separate and leaving the trailer to stop on its own.
>
> I wouldn't fancy being followed by an uncoupled unbraked trailer attached by a strong chain

I think this is matter of opinion. And my opinion is based on trailer actually coming off ball and the chains allowing the trailer tongue to rest on chains. In my case, applying the brake had trailer tongue going under the hitch and the trailer hitting the back bumper. This was not a glider trailer but a utility trailer. Light weight trailers are not required to have a brake but are required to have safety chains. Redundancy is always better in my opinion and I would rather for chains to keep tongue from catching and catapulting or piercing something as first safety than have a braking system to take effect if the chains fail. I would think chains failing would be a less likelihood than a braking system failing. Chains have very little maintenance while the small cable, braking system, and actual brakes are a little more complex and require all to work properly.

[Dave Springford]

Of course, another point of interest is that the speed limit when towing a trailer in Germany is 80 km/hr (50 mph) (even on the autobahn), unless you meet more stringent specifications in which case the car and trailer must have 100 km/hr (60 mph) decals affixed and then 100 km/hr is allowed.

As well as the slower towing speeds than the 70-80 mph most people seem to fly along at in North America, the Europeans are also towing with much smaller cars than the typical Yukon, F-150 that most use here.

Having a trailer chained to your Ford Focus could get rather exciting if the ball attachment comes loose at 60 mph!

[[email protected]]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 8:13:24 AM UTC-7, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
> I just purchased a glider housed in a 2002 Cobra trailer. It came with only one chain (I always use two crossed chains) and the chain is attached to one of the bolts that connects the tongue to the trailer (big honking steel U strap over the tongue inside the trailer). According to the owner this was installed at the Cobra factory.
>
> Here is a picture of the chain's external attachment points. Note that I upgraded to grade 10 bolts replacing the original Cobra bolts.
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20741943/Cobra%20Trailer%20Chains.jpg
>
> The question is, is this a good/best attachment point for chains? It would seem that a sharp jolt puts a high lateral force on the bolt at the weakest "threaded portion". I also saw this same setup in the linked picture at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.aviation.soaring/qZozCKh9GP8/FKmbkTjMBAAJ.
>
> I see other Cobra owners with chains attached via a shackle to the V shaped bracket holding the jockey wheel/post. While this is a beefy bracket, is that a good place? Is another chain location even better?
>
> PS - Is is true that Europeans don't even use chains? Seems just CRAZY to me as you would have a deadly unguided missile if it were to come off the ball.
>
> Thanks, John

My understanding of the U.S. use of chains is to keep the trailer somewhat inline behind the towing vehicle in the event of a separation from correct connection between the trailer and the tow vehicle. I was indirectly involved with a 30' fishing boat/trailer equipped with a 2" hitch being incorrectly hooked to a 1-7/8" ball on the truck, resulting in a decoupling on the 405 freeway near LAX some decades ago. The tally was one Sigalert and a very beat up tailgate on the pickup truck, but no other vehicles involved, because the trailer stayed behind the truck. With two, 150 hp Yamaha outboards on the back of the boat, pitch-pole prevention was not a concern, and really isn't with any other trailer size/type. Have been out of the boat biz for a long time, but I don't recall any trailers from the major manufacturers who rigged trailers with chains so short as to keep the trailer tongue from touching the ground in the event of an uncommanded uncoupling. In an uncoupling, the chains are for safety to other vehicles, your tow vehicle is a sacrificial anode.

[Casey[_2_]]

>
> My understanding of the U.S. use of chains is to keep the trailer somewhat inline behind the towing vehicle in the event of a separation from correct connection between the trailer and the tow vehicle. I was indirectly involved with a 30' fishing boat/trailer equipped with a 2" hitch being incorrectly hooked to a 1-7/8" ball on the truck, resulting in a decoupling on the 405 freeway near LAX some decades ago. The tally was one Sigalert and a very beat up tailgate on the pickup truck, but no other vehicles involved, because the trailer stayed behind the truck. With two, 150 hp Yamaha outboards on the back of the boat, pitch-pole prevention was not a concern, and really isn't with any other trailer size/type. Have been out of the boat biz for a long time, but I don't recall any trailers from the major manufacturers who rigged trailers with chains so short as to keep the trailer tongue from touching the ground in the event of an uncommanded uncoupling. In an uncoupling, the chains are for safety to other vehicles, your tow vehicle is a sacrificial anode.

I don't know if it is written anywhere but just from my general up bringing towing horse trailers, utility trailers, campers, and boats, we always crossed the chains. In the event of trailer separating from hitch, the crossed chains allowed the trailer tongue to rest on the chains. The case of the utility trailer coming uncoupled from the ball was when I borrowed a utility trailer and it did not have a safety pin. I was only using in my neighborhood so the first time in all my towing I did not use a safety pin. The road was rough, the safety latched popped up and then the coupler popped off the ball. It probably is not needed to cross the chains and may have started when chains were too long. But the brake-away brake is sure to help with pitch polling. A disconnected trailing traveling down the road by itself could easily have the coupler dig into the side of the road and kinetic energy allow the trailer to pitch pole. And I can see now why chains are not required and brake-away brakes are for the UK, since they use smaller vehicles.

I've seen many accidents involving trailers along interstates and my speculation is probably due to loss of control by swaying. I have pulled trailers to their limit until they swayed and its no fun. At least I knew at what speed to stay well below until the swaying would start. Some trailers sway at a much slower speed than others due to heavy in the rear, not enough tongue weight, or improper placement of axle. I am very pleased with my 1975 Pfeiffer trailer and the way it pulls. It does pull even better now with a little more weight in the front when I added a spare tire and small tool box.

[Craig Reinholt]

State safety chain requirements differ. Here is a summary by state.
http://www.expediter.com/natm%20pdf%20folder/B%20folder/B3%206-State%20Safety%20Chain%20Laws-Table.pdf
When in doubt, go to your state DOT website and see what is required.

[jfitch]

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 7:38:36 AM UTC-7, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> State safety chain requirements differ. Here is a summary by state.
> http://www.expediter.com/natm%20pdf%20folder/B%20folder/B3%206-State%20Safety%20Chain%20Laws-Table.pdf
> When in doubt, go to your state DOT website and see what is required.

That suggests that if you license your trailer in the right state, you don't need chains.

In California, you need chains and they must be short enough to keep the tongue off the ground.

[AS]

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 10:38:36 AM UTC-4, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> State safety chain requirements differ. Here is a summary by state.
> http://www.expediter.com/natm%20pdf%20folder/B%20folder/B3%206-State%20Safety%20Chain%20Laws-Table.pdf
> When in doubt, go to your state DOT website and see what is required.

Thanks for that link! I had no idea that there was such a bewildering variety of regulations.
So what is one to do while on a trip from one state that has hardly any requirements through one that requires QE2 style anchor chains? Could one get cited for violating that state's laws?
Uli
AS

[Dan Marotta]

My guess is that, as long as you're compliant with the laws of the state
in which the trailer is registered, you'll be OK just passing through or
visiting. Too bad it's not the same for speed limits (think California
where you have to drop 20 mph when towing a trailer). But I never
played a lawyer on TV, either.


On 7/9/2016 9:20 PM, AS wrote:
> On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 10:38:36 AM UTC-4, Craig Reinholt wrote:
>> State safety chain requirements differ. Here is a summary by state.
>> http://www.expediter.com/natm%20pdf%20folder/B%20folder/B3%206-State%20Safety%20Chain%20Laws-Table.pdf
>> When in doubt, go to your state DOT website and see what is required.
> Thanks for that link! I had no idea that there was such a bewildering variety of regulations.
> So what is one to do while on a trip from one state that has hardly any requirements through one that requires QE2 style anchor chains? Could one get cited for violating that state's laws?
> Uli
> AS

--
Dan, 5J

[Oscar-Hotel-Mike]

Thanks for all the comments but I don't think that my initial question was answered.

To paraphrase - What part of a Cobra trailer should the chains be attached to? Where are your chains attached?

Thanks, John

[K m]

On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 7:18:38 AM UTC-6, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
> Thanks for all the comments but I don't think that my initial question was answered.
>
> To paraphrase - What part of a Cobra trailer should the chains be attached to? Where are your chains attached?
>
> Thanks, John

OHM,
I have (And just restored) a 1999 Cobra and the chain attach point coincides with your picture. If you have further questions contact Alfred Spindleburger at Cobra. He has been helpful throughout my restoration. If you contact him early in the day (US) he will still be in the office (In Germany) and usually will get right back to you.

[K m]

On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 7:39:47 AM UTC-6, K m wrote:
> On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 7:18:38 AM UTC-6, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
> > Thanks for all the comments but I don't think that my initial question was answered.
> >
> > To paraphrase - What part of a Cobra trailer should the chains be attached to? Where are your chains attached?
> >
> > Thanks, John
>
> OHM,
> I have (And just restored) a 1999 Cobra and the chain attach point coincides with your picture. If you have further questions contact Alfred Spindleburger at Cobra. He has been helpful throughout my restoration. If you contact him early in the day (US) he will still be in the office (In Germany) and usually will get right back to you.

I meant to write , If you email him early in the day he will get right back to you.

[[email protected]]

Based on experience, if the trailer tongue/drawbar snaps where it enters the trailer (stress concentration), the brake actuator rod does a fine job of keeping the trailer behind the tow vehicle, although the trailer swings pretty wildly back and forth. :)

If the front mounting point of the tongue fails, the rear mounting mount can remain attached but the front of the trailer settles onto, yes, the brake actuator rod. In this case, everything looks normal (except the trailer is riding a bit tail high) until the smoke starts pouring off the wheels from the brakes being full on.

All of this assumes the coupler is still attached to the ball, of course. A break or disconnect at that point (or if the trailer hitch itself fails--I have some experience with that, too) makes you glad you used chains.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"