Runway lights and wingspans

[Bret Hess]

What rules of thumb for min width do you use when choosing runways to avoid lights for 15m and 18m ships?

Crosswinds?

Are the lights at a standard distance from the asphalt in the US?

Do any of you hang your wings over the lights?

[[email protected]]

I have an 18m motorglider, and have to taxi along taxiways narrower than my wingspan (60ft). I run the mainwheel close to one edge of the taxiway and put the other wing down on the tarmac (I have wingtip wheels). I used to put a liter of water in the wing I wanted to stay down, but don't bother now. For some reason the down-wing stays down. But on a gusty day I'd not taxi like this without some extra water in one wing.

I believe runway lights are between 2 and 10ft out from the tarmac edges.

I've laboriously noted my local runway widths as a comment into my LXNAV CUP airport database. If forced to use a lighted runway less than 60ft wide, I'd try to keep the wings level until slow, then go to the method I use on taxiways.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 7/24/2016 5:13 PM:
> I've laboriously noted my local runway widths as a comment into my LXNAV CUP airport database.

If you use Lynn Alley's database, it will produce a CUP file with runway
widths in it - no extra work required. I've used his site's files for
years, and it's great to have the runway widths!

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[2KA]

Yeah, in addition to runway widths, my website notes in the comment field whether each runway has lights or not -- for this very reason.

http://www.soaringdata.info

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

[Bret Hess]

Thanks Lynn got it downloaded. So what's the narrowest runway with lights you will land your Duo on?

[2KA]

Like so many questions in our sport, this one is hard to provide a simple black-and-white answer to. Many factors must be considered, like pilot skill, crosswind, other alternatives, etc. If you want to pay it fairly safe and the crosswind isn't too tough, you will want 10-15 feet more than the glider span. That assumes you have the skill to hold within something like 4-6 feet of the centerline in the conditions of your landing.

Of course it is possible to land safely on a lighted runway with less width.. I've done so many times using a technique of holding the wings level while moving to one side, then putting the opposite wing down. Unfortunately, I found by sad experience that this doesn't work perfectly if the runway has a high crown.

It is also possible to time your stop so that you roll past one set of lights wings level and then stop before the next. It is good to practice this technique way in advance of needing to use it by setting up cones or markers next to a wider or unlit runway. Typical spacing is 200 feet, although I've seen lots of exceptions.

And remember when the chips are down that you won't get killed hitting a runway light. It can be expensive and it certainly is rude, but it isn't lethal.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

[Bruce Hoult]

On Wednesday, July 27, 2016 at 6:25:21 AM UTC+12, 2KA wrote:
> Like so many questions in our sport, this one is hard to provide a simple black-and-white answer to. Many factors must be considered, like pilot skill, crosswind, other alternatives, etc. If you want to pay it fairly safe and the crosswind isn't too tough, you will want 10-15 feet more than the glider span. That assumes you have the skill to hold within something like 4-6 feet of the centerline in the conditions of your landing.
>
> Of course it is possible to land safely on a lighted runway with less width. I've done so many times using a technique of holding the wings level while moving to one side, then putting the opposite wing down. Unfortunately, I found by sad experience that this doesn't work perfectly if the runway has a high crown.
>
> It is also possible to time your stop so that you roll past one set of lights wings level and then stop before the next. It is good to practice this technique way in advance of needing to use it by setting up cones or markers next to a wider or unlit runway. Typical spacing is 200 feet, although I've seen lots of exceptions.
>
> And remember when the chips are down that you won't get killed hitting a runway light. It can be expensive and it certainly is rude, but it isn't lethal.

At Paraparaumu the grass runway is bordered by cones about every 30 or 40 meters apart. No one has any problem taxiing off between them, usually at a shallow enough angle that each wing overlaps a cone in turn.

[Roy B.]

A useful technique with Open Class gliders landing on narrow runways with landing lights sided by grass is to land well off center and close to the lights on one side so that they pass near but under the inboard end of the wing and can't be hit by the wing (Because the wing root is higher than the light). It's non intuitive but works pretty well - except here in the in the NorthEast where they put "snow stakes" on the lights so the snow plows can find them.

ROY (40+ years with ASW-17,Nimbus 3 & ASG-29)