Helicopters and Towplanes

[Burt Compton]

Need assistance in finding a FAA or other reference to "best practices" for
helicopter autorotation practice at active airports.

Recently a helicopter practicing an emergency practice autorotation descent
over the middle of an airport in Florida had a mid-air collision with a
towplane during aerotow takeoff at 100' agl. Towpilot seriously injured but
will recover. Helicopter instructor and student walked away. Both aircraft
totalled. Glider pilot released and landed safely.

Seeking guidelines from the helicopter community that may prevent this from
occurring again.

Burt Compton
Author, "The Towpilot Manual"

[BTIZ]

is there a rec.aviation.helicopter newsgroup?



"Burt Compton" > wrote in message
...
> Need assistance in finding a FAA or other reference to "best practices"
for
> helicopter autorotation practice at active airports.
>
> Recently a helicopter practicing an emergency practice autorotation
descent
> over the middle of an airport in Florida had a mid-air collision with a
> towplane during aerotow takeoff at 100' agl. Towpilot seriously injured
but
> will recover. Helicopter instructor and student walked away. Both
aircraft
> totalled. Glider pilot released and landed safely.
>
> Seeking guidelines from the helicopter community that may prevent this
from
> occurring again.
>
> Burt Compton
> Author, "The Towpilot Manual"
>

[Michael McNulty]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:wO97b.47498$Qy4.30859@fed1read05...
> is there a rec.aviation.helicopter newsgroup?
>
>
try rec.aviation.rotorcraft

[Shaber CJ]

>Subject: Helicopters and Towplanes
>From: (Burt Compton)
>Date: 9/8/2003 7:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Need assistance in finding a FAA or other reference to "best practices" for
>helicopter autorotation practice at active airports.
>
>Recently a helicopter practicing an emergency practice autorotation descent
>over the middle of an airport in Florida had a mid-air collision with a
>towplane during aerotow takeoff at 100' agl. Towpilot seriously injured but
>will recover. Helicopter instructor and student walked away. Both aircraft
>totalled. Glider pilot released and landed safely.
>
>Seeking guidelines from the helicopter community that may prevent this from
>occurring again.


burt I am a glider gider (well I have not flown gliders much in the last few
years but I do have about 800 hours) and a helicopter pilot, very active.
Autorotation practice at the airport should be like any other landing operation
other than the helicopter is decending at up to 2,500 fpm. Make the calls in
the pattern and watch for traffic.

Craig

[Bill Daniels]

"Shaber CJ" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Helicopters and Towplanes
> >From: (Burt Compton)
> >Date: 9/8/2003 7:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >Need assistance in finding a FAA or other reference to "best practices"
for
> >helicopter autorotation practice at active airports.
> >
> >Recently a helicopter practicing an emergency practice autorotation
descent
> >over the middle of an airport in Florida had a mid-air collision with a
> >towplane during aerotow takeoff at 100' agl. Towpilot seriously injured
but
> >will recover. Helicopter instructor and student walked away. Both
aircraft
> >totalled. Glider pilot released and landed safely.
> >
> >Seeking guidelines from the helicopter community that may prevent this
from
> >occurring again.
>
>
> burt I am a glider gider (well I have not flown gliders much in the last
few
> years but I do have about 800 hours) and a helicopter pilot, very active.
> Autorotation practice at the airport should be like any other landing
operation
> other than the helicopter is decending at up to 2,500 fpm. Make the calls
in
> the pattern and watch for traffic.
>
> Craig
>

You make a valid point, Craig. However, even with radio calls at a busy
airport with a mix of glider, power and helicopter traffic autorotations to
the runway may still result in a conflict. Doing things the way that other
pilots expect to see them done is likely to make things work out better.
Flying as normal looking a pattern as possible helps the see-and-be-seen
idea work.

With smoking wreckage on the ground, who had the right-of-way doesn't seem
to matter as much.

I was asked about the technique of descending steeply on base leg with
spoilers wide open at a busy airport - the glider pilot asking thought that
being close and high was a good thing for safety. The concern that I
expressed was that this was not a normal technique as seen by power pilots
who generally fly their downwinds at a constant altitude. Descending
steeply in the pattern exposes the glider (and sling-wing) to traffic
approaching from behind and below where it cannot be seen.

Power pilots are not likely to be looking for gliders or helicopters doing
steep descents - their attention is more likely to be on the runway, (to the
extent that is outside the cockpit at all.)

Autorotations are a essential part of helicopter training. It would be nice
if they could be done away from a busy traffic pattern. At Centennial
Airport (KAPA) the helo guys do their autorotations to a section of isolated
ramp well away from the normal traffic patterns. That seems to work well
for everybody.

Bill Daniels

[Shaber CJ]

>Autorotations are a essential part of helicopter training. It would be nice
>if they could be done away from a busy traffic pattern. At Centennial
>Airport (KAPA) the helo guys do their autorotations to a section of isolated
>ramp well away from the normal traffic patterns. That seems to work well
>for everybody.


Bill, I agree that an airport with an isolated area is best but many airports
do not have that available. "Can't we just get along"? Gliders fly different
precedures than powered fixed wing, a helicopter is different than either.
What is normal? Autos are normal for helicopters. Many times a glider cannot
taxi off the runway, that is not normal, for powered traffic. For a helicopter
Fly a pattern cleared to land and do an auto. A helicpter can clear the
pattern faster. In the case of the accident in question, the helicopter should
not be doing an auto while aircraft are taking off, were all the radio calls
made? Did the helicopter call that he was in the pattern and the glider tug
took off anyway? I know an airport in the west where the tow planes do not
have radios and the landing (other than tow planes) traffic is required to call
122.8 for landing while the gliders call 123.3 in the pattern. I never thought
that was very safe but there has never been a landing accident.

Craig

[Shaber CJ]

>You make a valid point, Craig. However, even with radio calls at a busy
>airport with a mix of glider, power and helicopter traffic autorotations to
>the runway may still result in a conflict.

This is very true. So who can operate at such airports, just fixed wing power?
I think that is what Minden airport manager would like. I think we are stuck
with the mix of aircraft least we boot some type out but who decides? I think
a good airman knows how all aircraft work, and knows what is normal for all
aircraft. When I fly powered from airports with gliders I know what can be
expected.