Tail Dolly Tire

[John Cochrane[_3_]]

The tail dolly tire is flat again. The last time this happened, it took me bloody forever to get the tire bead off the rim, and back on again, with bicycle tools. (The wheel is one piece and does not come apart.) Somebody else must have figured this out. Short of taking it to a tire store, who has a tool, tip or trick for how to do this right?
Thanks for advice
John Cochrane BB

[Wheaton]

You can have it filled with foam. We have done this with tail dolly and tow plane tail wheels. Adds some weight, but very tolerable. JJB

[John Cochrane[_3_]]

Yes, but let's fix the flat first... Thanks

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

Buy a split rim?

Sorry, John, but I have no good solution. I have used screwdrivers, and with that small a tire (200 by 50, or is yours 210 by 65?), it is just tough to do, and easy to pinch the tube. You are just dealing with a high percentage elongation to get the tire around the rim. The bigger the wheel and tire you are dealing with, the smaller the percent stretch to get the tire onto the wheel. I, too, wish for an easier way that doesn't involve finger poking, cussing, and way too much time for such a small piece of equipment.

You can buy nylon split rims from W&W for under $70 if the tail dolly wheel is one of the above mentioned sizes. Maybe worth it if over the life of the dolly it saves you an hour? Otherwise, far as I know, it is just a struggle.

Steve Leonard

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Use some liquid soap mixed with water as a lube on the bead and rim.
A suitable sized bar through the wheel and clamped in a vise gives some leverage. Wheel is laid flat on the vise, bar through axle hole and "just" sticking up through the top side so you have working room.

[Dan Marotta]

Having it foam filled fixes the flat and likely the shop installing the
foam will also remove the tube for you and remount the tire. Problem
solved. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

On 8/1/2016 9:22 AM, John Cochrane wrote:
> Yes, but let's fix the flat first... Thanks

--
Dan, 5J

[Steve Koerner]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 9:07:56 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Having it foam filled fixes the flat and likely the shop installing the
> foam will also remove the tube for you and remount the tire. Problem
> solved. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
>
> On 8/1/2016 9:22 AM, John Cochrane wrote:
> > Yes, but let's fix the flat first... Thanks
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

I did the foam thing several years ago on my tail dolly after having read someones great advise here on RAS. I regret having done so. It makes the tail dolly a lot heavier. More important, when I'm pushing on unpaved surfaces (which is frequently) it makes the tail bounce a lot worse than it did on air.

[[email protected]]

On this type of rim, I have had better luck with 4 ply tires. I have a nice 6 ply tire and it's really really stiff, but you just can't practically get it on the rim. It's completely futile. I believe the practical use for that tire is with a split rim such as the glider tail wheel on some models..

What I do know though is just buy the whole tire/hub assembly from monster scooter parts. It's like 10 or 20 bucks,cheap, and works well for a dolly tire.

[Casey[_2_]]

Use a good tube and have it filled with helium? Helium does not leak like air.

[Casey[_2_]]

Use a good tube and have it filled with helium? Helium does not leak like air.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 11:56:52 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On this type of rim, I have had better luck with 4 ply tires. I have a nice 6 ply tire and it's really really stiff, but you just can't practically get it on the rim. It's completely futile. I believe the practical use for that tire is with a split rim such as the glider tail wheel on some models.
>
> What I do know though is just buy the whole tire/hub assembly from monster scooter parts. It's like 10 or 20 bucks,cheap, and works well for a dolly tire.

see this thread and link. 20 bucks.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/monster$20scooter%7Csort:relevance/rec.aviation.soaring/DTvsJtz_z9A/9zhjojZXQbMJ

[Casey[_2_]]

Nitrogen?

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Nitrogen is a larger molecule, thus it only means the, "normal leak rate" is a bit slower.
Nothing else.

Still does not address the original issue, "how do you remove/install" a small tire on a solid rim.

Thanks for trying though......;-)

RTFQ next time though.......... Thanks..........

[Casey[_2_]]

NNTGBOOS. I am using app that seems not to reply to a earlier comment about foam used in tired. Which I would try nitrogen to see if that held up better than air. Maybe then only a **** of nitrogen once a year would be good.

BTW. YLLAA

[JS]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 1:33:02 PM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
> Nitrogen is a larger molecule, thus it only means the, "normal leak rate" is a bit slower.
> Nothing else.
>
> Still does not address the original issue, "how do you remove/install" a small tire on a solid rim.
>
> Thanks for trying though......;-)
>
> RTFQ next time though.......... Thanks..........

The aviation department at Tractor Supply has a nice wheel for $15 which, with some brass bushings to adapt to the axle diameter and space one side of the wheel to the yoke, is a perfect fit in the tail dolly. Believe it's their part number 3553230. Sorry, nowhere near the trailer or a Tractor Supply at the moment.
Jim

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 12:50:58 PM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
> On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 9:07:56 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Having it foam filled fixes the flat and likely the shop installing the
> > foam will also remove the tube for you and remount the tire. Problem
> > solved. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
> >
> > On 8/1/2016 9:22 AM, John Cochrane wrote:
> > > Yes, but let's fix the flat first... Thanks
> >
> > --
> > Dan, 5J
>
> I did the foam thing several years ago on my tail dolly after having read someones great advise here on RAS. I regret having done so. It makes the tail dolly a lot heavier. More important, when I'm pushing on unpaved surfaces (which is frequently) it makes the tail bounce a lot worse than it did on air.

This year Schleicher shipped my new glider with a very nice tail dolly equipped with solid rubber tire that is quite soft, a really nice tire. No more flats to deal with or adding air.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Casey wrote on 8/1/2016 11:59 AM:
> Use a good tube and have it filled with helium? Helium does not leak like air.

It leaks faster than air! A LOT faster.


--
Eric Greenwelldf

[Casey[_2_]]

> The aviation department at Tractor Supply has a nice wheel for $15 which, with some brass bushings to adapt to the axle diameter and space one side of the wheel to the yoke, is a perfect fit in the tail dolly. Believe it's their part number 3553230. Sorry, nowhere near the trailer or a Tractor Supply at the moment.
> Jim

The solid tire from Tractor Supply is what I replaced my tire/tube with. Didn't know if anyone had tried Nitrogen is why I mentioned that earlier.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2016 13:48:30 -0700, Casey wrote:

> Which I would try nitrogen to see if that held up better than air.
> Maybe then only a **** of nitrogen once a year would be good.
>
Nitrogen is slightly lighter than oxygen so, to a first approximation,
should leak out a bit faster than air. However because nitrogen, unlike
air, doesn't degrade rubber, it may be preferable for this reason.

Either air or nitrogen will leak out a lot slower than helium, which
diffuses through solids three times faster than air. Only hydrogen has a
higher gaseous diffusion rate (154% of helium's rate).

However, when you take cost and availability at the airfield into
account, putting air into glider tyres may turn out to be the better
inflation method.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

Went to a hardware store solid tire on the tail dolly and Amazon solid tire on the wing wheel years ago. Tired of fixing flats. Yes, they're heavier (a good thing on the wing wheel). They bounce more. But hassle free. Life is short.

Solid tire on the trailer dolly wheel also. Now all I need is run-flat tires for the trailer and a solid tire for the glider main wheel and I'm done. :)

Oops, there's the glider tail wheel. And the van....

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 10:01:15 AM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote:
> The last time this happened, it took me bloody forever to get the
> tire bead off the rim, and back on again, with bicycle tools.

Oyy, mathematicians...

> Somebody else must have figured this out.

Paint can openers, available for free at Ace Hardware, work
better for this than bicycle tools - use three and presto...

See ya, Dave

PS: If you're at Uvalde, there's a store to solid-fill the dumb
thing. I had them do the wing and wheel dollies for the Antares
a few years back, and will probably take the Arcus dollies over
tomorrow. Wait, Nah, I'll wait until the first flat from a thorn...

[AS]

> This year Schleicher shipped my new glider with a very nice tail dolly equipped with solid rubber tire that is quite soft, a really nice tire. No more flats to deal with or adding air.

I was in Moriarty this summer and a fellow glider guider had exactly that type of solid rubber tire come off the rim while towing his glider to the tie-down area. I can only think that rolling on the intensely hot surface made the rubber expand and slip off the rim. I tried all kinds of things to get it back onto the rim to no avail. The owner ended buying a will-fit replacement at the aviation department of the Tractor Supply in Edgewood, NM

Uli
AS

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 7:35:49 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:

>
> PS: If you're at Uvalde, there's a store to solid-fill the dumb
> thing. I had them do the wing and wheel dollies for the Antares
> a few years back, and will probably take the Arcus dollies over
> tomorrow. Wait, Nah, I'll wait until the first flat from a thorn...


So, you will be going there on Wednesday, then, Dave?

:-)

Steve Leonard

[2G]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 6:25:15 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> > This year Schleicher shipped my new glider with a very nice tail dolly equipped with solid rubber tire that is quite soft, a really nice tire. No more flats to deal with or adding air.
>
> I was in Moriarty this summer and a fellow glider guider had exactly that type of solid rubber tire come off the rim while towing his glider to the tie-down area. I can only think that rolling on the intensely hot surface made the rubber expand and slip off the rim. I tried all kinds of things to get it back onto the rim to no avail. The owner ended buying a will-fit replacement at the aviation department of the Tractor Supply in Edgewood, NM
>
> Uli
> AS

I replaced my tube tire with a solid wheel from McMaster-Carr 2829T25 ($25).. Yes, it bounces somewhat more than the pneumatic tire, but it never goes flat. The 1/2" axle required drilling out the caster slightly.

Tom

[[email protected]]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 8:01:15 AM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
> The tail dolly tire is flat again. The last time this happened, it took me bloody forever to get the tire bead off the rim, and back on again, with bicycle tools. (The wheel is one piece and does not come apart.) Somebody else must have figured this out. Short of taking it to a tire store, who has a tool, tip or trick for how to do this right?
> Thanks for advice
> John Cochrane BB

Hi John,
I had to do a similar replacement a few weeks ago. I used motorcycle tire irons, which are basically bicycle tire irons on steroids. Even with those tire irons and soap it was an extremely unpleasant experience. You're welcome to borrow the irons ... I live in San Jose, work in Palo Alto.

Cheers,
Brian Roach, 1YC
six-five-oh 862.7807

[[email protected]]

About the same bounce, use a solid foam replacement tube from Walmart. Some shaving and shaping will apply but after installed will last as long as the tire does. Mine is going on 8 years or so now. They are for minium 20 in tires so you will have enough to do a few tail dollies for each purchase.

[Tango Whisky]

I buy the whole wheel for something like 30 dollars and keep a spare in the trailer. Last week, the one on the dolly went flat and I swapped it inside 5 minutes. Life is too short.
A full rubber tire wouldn't be an option on a S-H glider.

[Ian[_2_]]

On 01/08/2016 17:01, John Cochrane wrote:

> The tail dolly tire is flat again. The last time this happened, it took me bloody forever to get the tire bead off the rim, and back on again, with bicycle tools. (The wheel is one piece and does not come apart.) Somebody else must have figured this out. Short of taking it to a tire store, who has a tool, tip or trick for how to do this right?

Be careful of the "solid" tyre options if you tow the glider any
distance on the dolly. The "suspension" is compromised and I have heard
of wooden gliders suffering structural damage to the tail due to solid
tail dolly wheels. Even with a plastic glider I would be cautious. The
vibration loads on the glider tail during ground towing can easily
exceed those experienced in flight.

A split wheel rim is a good idea. This is what I have on my tail wheel
and dolly wheel.

But getting back to the original question, these are the basic
principals for changing reluctant bicycle tyres:

1) Make sure the tyre bead opposite to where you are levering is in the
middle and bottom of the "well" of the rim.

2) The valve can interfere with the bead, so leaver adjacent to the
valve, this ensures that the portion of the well that needs to
accommodate the bead does not have a valve occupying the same volume.

3) Lubricate with soapy water.

Then use sufficient mechanical leverage and controlled force to get the
tyre on or off, without damaging the rim.

:-)

[[email protected]]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 11:01:15 AM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
> The tail dolly tire is flat again. The last time this happened, it took me bloody forever to get the tire bead off the rim, and back on again, with bicycle tools. (The wheel is one piece and does not come apart.) Somebody else must have figured this out. Short of taking it to a tire store, who has a tool, tip or trick for how to do this right?
> Thanks for advice
> John Cochrane BB

Consider installing a tire liner. Here's a few:

https://www.rei.com/c/bike-tire-liners?r=c&ir=category%3Abike-tire-liners&page=1

[Dave Nadler]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 12:18:39 AM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
> A full rubber tire wouldn't be an option on a S-H glider.

Oh no, better tell SH!
They delivered my new glider with a solid rubber tail dolly tire!

[Craig Reinholt]

On Monday, August 1, 2016 at 8:01:15 AM UTC-7, John Cochrane wrote:
> The tail dolly tire is flat again. The last time this happened, it took me bloody forever to get the tire bead off the rim, and back on again, with bicycle tools. (The wheel is one piece and does not come apart.) Somebody else must have figured this out. Short of taking it to a tire store, who has a tool, tip or trick for how to do this right?
> Thanks for advice
> John Cochrane BB

Timing....
I had my solid tail dolly tire come off while moving the glider down a very ratty runway at Mackay Idaho last Wednesday. I quickly borrowed a like tail dolly to get the glider positioned. The tire lost a chunk on the inner rim, but was still intact. I used a bucket, Dawn liquid dish, and water. Soaked the tire and rim, 2 large screwdrivers, a curb, and my foot to get the tire easily back on the rim.

Replacement from http://www.magnusinc.com/ (pretty much an exact match)
Cost: under $40 not including shipping

part no: VW 202/20R

·wheels with ‘Blickle Soft’ soft rubber tyres, with pressed steel rim

Wheels:
Made of ‘Blickle Soft’ highly elastic soft rubber, round profile, highest operational comfort, exceptionally low-noise operation, excellent floor preservation.

· Tread/tyre:
Made of “Blickle Soft" soft rubber.

· Wheel centre/rim:
Pressed steel rim with tubular steel hub, pressed rim (special shock and impact-resistant design), zinc-plated, blue-passivated, Cr6-free. Tyre pressed with rim.

· Wheel centre colour:
blau passiviert

Technical data

Display in: "/lbs/°F

Wheel Ø
200 mm (D)

Tyre width
50 mm (T2)

Load capacity
100 kg

Axle bore Ø
20 mm (d)

Hub length
60 mm (T1)

unit weight
1,7 kg

Temperature resistance
-25 ° C

Temperature resistance to
80 ° C

tread and tyre hardness
50° Shore A

Bearing type
Roller bearing




Wheel Ø
7,9 inch (D)

Wheel width
0,197 inch (T2)

Load capacity
220 lb

Axle bore Ø
0,787 inch (d)

Hub length
0,2 inch (T1)

Schraubloch-Ø
5,512 inch (d2)

Offset swivel castor
33,5 inch

unit weight
3,8 lb

Temperature resistance
-13 °F

Temperature resistance to
176 °F

tread and tyre hardness
50° Shore A

Bearing type:
Roller bearing

[Dave Nadler]

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 at 11:36:44 AM UTC-4, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> I had my solid tail dolly tire come off while moving the glider down
> a very ratty runway at Mackay Idaho last Wednesday.
>... I used a bucket, Dawn liquid dish, and water. Soaked the tire and
> rim, 2 large screwdrivers, a curb, and my foot to get the tire easily
> back on the rim.

> Wheels:
> Made of ‘Blickle Soft’ highly elastic soft rubber, round profile,
> highest operational comfort, exceptionally low-noise operation,
> excellent floor preservation.

Well, these nice soft solid-rubber tires have a bad habit of coming
off the rim. In addition to two posts above, this happened to at least
3 Arcus owners at Uvalde, including me twice. First time I was a wimp
and dropped it off at the tire store next to the airport. 2nd time I
used two screwdrivers and some nasty language to frighten it back onto
the rim. 2nd time it happened I was making a gentle turn towing out
on a nice smooth taxiway.

Probably I'll ditch this and get the old style tube/tire and foam-fill...

Aaarrrgggg......

[Craig Funston]

Dave, you could use contact cement or double stick tape to bond the rubber to the rim like cyclists do with sew ups.