Garmin GL 39 ADS-B receiver

[ARDI BELTZA]

Has anyone used the Garmin GL 39 ADS-B receiver in a sailplane? Is there any IGC approved recorder that interfaces with the GL 39?

[Darryl Ramm]

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 10:35:46 AM UTC-7, ARDI BELTZA wrote:
> Has anyone used the Garmin GL 39 ADS-B receiver in a sailplane? Is there any IGC approved recorder that interfaces with the GL 39?

GDL 39? And I don't follow the question.

The GDL 39 does not talk to anything you would normally find in a sailplane cockpit. Not for traffic or using its GPS for IGC logging etc. But why do you even need GPS for an IGC recorder today? Most flight recorders have internal GPS receivers, and if you want one approved to any IGC standard well it will have it's own receiver. Do you mean traffic display or flight computer with a traffic display? instead of flight recorder?

And which country are you in? That make a world of difference to anything you expect ADS-B to do.

If you are in Europe especially PowerFLARM with 1090ES In is the way to go if you want a ADS-B receiver with best sailplane cockpit avionics compatibility.

[ARDI BELTZA]

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 1:46:26 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 10:35:46 AM UTC-7, ARDI BELTZA wrote:
> > Has anyone used the Garmin GL 39 ADS-B receiver in a sailplane? Is there any IGC approved recorder that interfaces with the GL 39?
>
> GDL 39? And I don't follow the question.
>
> The GDL 39 does not talk to anything you would normally find in a sailplane cockpit. Not for traffic or using its GPS for IGC logging etc. But why do you even need GPS for an IGC recorder today? Most flight recorders have internal GPS receivers, and if you want one approved to any IGC standard well it will have it's own receiver. Do you mean traffic display or flight computer with a traffic display? instead of flight recorder?
>
> And which country are you in? That make a world of difference to anything you expect ADS-B to do.
>
> If you are in Europe especially PowerFLARM with 1090ES In is the way to go if you want a ADS-B receiver with best sailplane cockpit avionics compatibility.

I believe, the FAA believes, that ADS-B is the way of the future. I don't think FLARM can see ADS-B out traffic. Having a ADS-B receiver in a sailplane is a relatively cheap way to identify traffic conflicts. I know that in the US most sailplanes are not equipped with transponders and/or FLARM. ADS-B is going to be universal by 2020. I think even sailplanes will require to have ADS-B out soon. The Garmin product is much cheaper than FLARM and perhaps far superior. The future of FLARM is in question, I think.

Midairs involving sailplanes are very rare but that is entirely due to the fact that sailplanes themselves are becoming rare.

The GL 39 sells for about $700, and it can interface with many devices. I plan to buy a certified flight recorder and I was wondering if there is one that can be used as output for the GL 39 (in addition to serving as recorder).

[Steve Koerner]

> I believe, the FAA believes, that ADS-B is the way of the future. I don't think FLARM can see ADS-B out traffic. Having a ADS-B receiver in a sailplane is a relatively cheap way to identify traffic conflicts. I know that in the US most sailplanes are not equipped with transponders and/or FLARM. ADS-B is going to be universal by 2020. I think even sailplanes will require to have ADS-B out soon. The Garmin product is much cheaper than FLARM and perhaps far superior. The future of FLARM is in question, I think.
>
> Midairs involving sailplanes are very rare but that is entirely due to the fact that sailplanes themselves are becoming rare.
>
> The GL 39 sells for about $700, and it can interface with many devices. I plan to buy a certified flight recorder and I was wondering if there is one that can be used as output for the GL 39 (in addition to serving as recorder).

A lot of what you're saying here Ardi indicates that you're not caught up.

In the US, we use a version of Flarm called PowerFlarm. It is quite widely adopted by the population of glider pilots that fly actively in the US. PowerFlarm does indeed have ADS-B receive built-in. It works great and integrates perfectly with flarm target indications. PowerFlarm has an approved flight recorder built-in as well. It also has a transponder detector function that picks up aircraft that have a transponder but no PowerFlarm nor ADS-B.

Get PowerFlarm and your glider will be on the network -- detectable by the rest of us and you won't need to buy a separate recorder.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 10:57:50 AM UTC-7, ARDI BELTZA wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 1:46:26 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 10:35:46 AM UTC-7, ARDI BELTZA wrote:
> > > Has anyone used the Garmin GL 39 ADS-B receiver in a sailplane? Is there any IGC approved recorder that interfaces with the GL 39?
> >
> > GDL 39? And I don't follow the question.
> >
> > The GDL 39 does not talk to anything you would normally find in a sailplane cockpit. Not for traffic or using its GPS for IGC logging etc. But why do you even need GPS for an IGC recorder today? Most flight recorders have internal GPS receivers, and if you want one approved to any IGC standard well it will have it's own receiver. Do you mean traffic display or flight computer with a traffic display? instead of flight recorder?
> >
> > And which country are you in? That make a world of difference to anything you expect ADS-B to do.
> >
> > If you are in Europe especially PowerFLARM with 1090ES In is the way to go if you want a ADS-B receiver with best sailplane cockpit avionics compatibility.
>
> I believe, the FAA believes, that ADS-B is the way of the future. I don't think FLARM can see ADS-B out traffic. Having a ADS-B receiver in a sailplane is a relatively cheap way to identify traffic conflicts. I know that in the US most sailplanes are not equipped with transponders and/or FLARM. ADS-B is going to be universal by 2020. I think even sailplanes will require to have ADS-B out soon. The Garmin product is much cheaper than FLARM and perhaps far superior. The future of FLARM is in question, I think.
>
> Midairs involving sailplanes are very rare but that is entirely due to the fact that sailplanes themselves are becoming rare.
>
> The GL 39 sells for about $700, and it can interface with many devices. I plan to buy a certified flight recorder and I was wondering if there is one that can be used as output for the GL 39 (in addition to serving as recorder).

I am not sure where to start. I've been posting on r.a.s. for years trying to help educate folks about ADS-B and PowerFLARM in particular and it's extremely frustrating to see so much confusion/misinformation in one post.

Lets start:

There is no, none, nada, zilch, ADS-B based traffic solutions except PowerFLARM that can integrate with most of the avionics used in sailplanes.

There is no, none, nada, zilch, ADS-B based traffic solutions that work in dense traffic situations like FLARM or PowerFLARM can. They won't help you avoid other gliders or towplanes ip close or in a thermal anything like PowerFLARM will. And they are likely to just become useless distractions in high density situations.

Gliders you fly with in the USA are likely to have PowerFLARM. Only a few gliders in the USA have ADS-B Out. That may change in future, including with TABS, if you want to understand that I've posted many times on DUC about that.

Having ADS-B In in an aircraft won't get you ADS-R or FIS-B, they require ADS-B Out as well. Want to know how to do that... look up all the pasts posts here. You got $5k+ in a certified glider just for ADS-B Out?

Parts of the glider community in the USA was seriously lost worrying about UAT future-ware for years and that possibly helped delay FLARM availability in the USA. To the detriment of safety in the glider community, during a time we had several fatal mid-air collisions that FLARM adoption may have prevented.

If you fly near/with other gliders get a PowerFLARM. If you fly near busy GA or airline traffic get at transponder (one upgradable to 1090ES Out). If you say fly e a motorglider around busy GA and airliner airspace and do not fly with many other gliders then by all means that it like a GA airplane and install a GA focused ADS-B Out and In system. ADS-B In alone really does not cut it in that use.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 12:55:10 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 10:57:50 AM UTC-7, ARDI BELTZA wrote:
> > On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 1:46:26 PM UTC-4, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > > On Friday, September 16, 2016 at 10:35:46 AM UTC-7, ARDI BELTZA wrote:
> > > > Has anyone used the Garmin GL 39 ADS-B receiver in a sailplane? Is there any IGC approved recorder that interfaces with the GL 39?
> > >
> > > GDL 39? And I don't follow the question.
> > >
> > > The GDL 39 does not talk to anything you would normally find in a sailplane cockpit. Not for traffic or using its GPS for IGC logging etc. But why do you even need GPS for an IGC recorder today? Most flight recorders have internal GPS receivers, and if you want one approved to any IGC standard well it will have it's own receiver. Do you mean traffic display or flight computer with a traffic display? instead of flight recorder?
> > >
> > > And which country are you in? That make a world of difference to anything you expect ADS-B to do.
> > >
> > > If you are in Europe especially PowerFLARM with 1090ES In is the way to go if you want a ADS-B receiver with best sailplane cockpit avionics compatibility.
> >
> > I believe, the FAA believes, that ADS-B is the way of the future. I don't think FLARM can see ADS-B out traffic. Having a ADS-B receiver in a sailplane is a relatively cheap way to identify traffic conflicts. I know that in the US most sailplanes are not equipped with transponders and/or FLARM.. ADS-B is going to be universal by 2020. I think even sailplanes will require to have ADS-B out soon. The Garmin product is much cheaper than FLARM and perhaps far superior. The future of FLARM is in question, I think.
> >
> > Midairs involving sailplanes are very rare but that is entirely due to the fact that sailplanes themselves are becoming rare.
> >
> > The GL 39 sells for about $700, and it can interface with many devices. I plan to buy a certified flight recorder and I was wondering if there is one that can be used as output for the GL 39 (in addition to serving as recorder).
>
> I am not sure where to start. I've been posting on r.a.s. for years trying to help educate folks about ADS-B and PowerFLARM in particular and it's extremely frustrating to see so much confusion/misinformation in one post.
>
> Lets start:
>
> There is no, none, nada, zilch, ADS-B based traffic solutions except PowerFLARM that can integrate with most of the avionics used in sailplanes.
>
> There is no, none, nada, zilch, ADS-B based traffic solutions that work in dense traffic situations like FLARM or PowerFLARM can. They won't help you avoid other gliders or towplanes ip close or in a thermal anything like PowerFLARM will. And they are likely to just become useless distractions in high density situations.
>
> Gliders you fly with in the USA are likely to have PowerFLARM. Only a few gliders in the USA have ADS-B Out. That may change in future, including with TABS, if you want to understand that I've posted many times on DUC about that.
>
> Having ADS-B In in an aircraft won't get you ADS-R or FIS-B, they require ADS-B Out as well. Want to know how to do that... look up all the pasts posts here. You got $5k+ in a certified glider just for ADS-B Out?
>
> Parts of the glider community in the USA was seriously lost worrying about UAT future-ware for years and that possibly helped delay FLARM availability in the USA. To the detriment of safety in the glider community, during a time we had several fatal mid-air collisions that FLARM adoption may have prevented.
>
> If you fly near/with other gliders get a PowerFLARM. If you fly near busy GA or airline traffic get at transponder (one upgradable to 1090ES Out). If you say fly e a motorglider around busy GA and airliner airspace and do not fly with many other gliders then by all means that it like a GA airplane and install a GA focused ADS-B Out and In system. ADS-B In alone really does not cut it in that use.

Sorry typo ADS-R or TIS-B (FIS-B is on UAT and is received without needing ADS-B Out in your aircraft). ADS-R and TIS-B require you have a "2020 complaint" ADS-B Out.

All this matters if you want to mess around with ADS-B in an aircraft and treat it like a GA aircraft with a ADS-B based traffic solution.

PowerFLARM only receives 1090ES direct, it will not receive ADS-R or TIS-B even with ADS-B Out.

What glider are you flying now and where? What transponder do you have in the glider today?

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Darryl, I, and others, appreciate your info as well as a few others here in the states regarding "soon to be FAA requirements" (TBD.... HOPEFULLY SOON).

If you got a beer for every question you and others answered, you could drink many every day and still have a cold one or two.

We appreciate you giving good info, hope you can "cut and paste" from other replies you've done.