Jet Arcus first soaring flight

[[email protected]]

On October 14, 1947, Chuck Yeager broke the Sound Barrier, ushering in the age of supersonic flight. Sixty-nine years later, on the same day, Dennis Tito's jet-powered Arcus demonstrated the beginnings of a new era in auxiliary powered soaring flight.

Launching from Inyokern, CA at sunrise, Dennis and designer/copilot Bob Carlton powered up to 8,000 MSL and found the wave. Over eight hours and 1,175 km later, they landed after the first significant long soaring flight in a jet-powered sailplane.

The OLC flight trace and Bob's comments can be found here:

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=5455442

Congratulations to Dennis, Bob and crew for this achievement!

[[email protected]]

I should have said "self-launching" jet sailplane.

[Tango Whisky]

Nice, but about 40 yeary late for making history. Has been done in a Calif A21J.

[POPS]

Nice, but about 40 yeary late for making history. Has been done in a Calif A21J.

Click-it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuZ3UBuNoQ

[Mike C]

On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 12:55:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On October 14, 1947, Chuck Yeager broke the Sound Barrier, ushering in the age of supersonic flight. Sixty-nine years later, on the same day, Dennis Tito's jet-powered Arcus demonstrated the beginnings of a new era in auxiliary powered soaring flight.
> Launching from Inyokern, CA at sunrise, Dennis and designer/copilot Bob Carlton powered up to 8,000 MSL and found the wave. Over eight hours and 1,175 km later, they landed after the first significant long soaring flight in a jet-powered sailplane.
>
> The OLC flight trace and Bob's comments can be found here:
>
> http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=5455442
>
> Congratulations to Dennis, Bob and crew for this achievement!

Very cool!

Congrats to Dennis, Bob and Mark.

I am sure it will be a flight to remember for at least one person.

Mike

[[email protected]]

I don't know about "significant long flights", but the jet glider idea is certainly not new: I think the first turbojet powered glider was this one: the Fouga CM8-R13 http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=67

Gérard Pierre was silver medalist with the unpowered version, Fouga CM8-15 at the world championships 1952 at Madrid Quatro Vientos, Spain.

Fouga made a whole series of derivatives, http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=159 including this Fouga Gémaux, reminiscent of the Twin Mustang: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=74

And don't forget the pulse-jet gliders: the Emouchet Escopette in France: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=135 or the Bocian Puls in Poland:http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=138.

In the US in the sixties to seventies (advert in Soaring july 1974, for example), Gluhareff produced pulse-jet units that could be used for gliders, and I recall an advertisement in Soaring in the same period with still another type of pulse-jet.

[JS]

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 12:15:20 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> I don't know about "significant long flights", but the jet glider idea is certainly not new: I think the first turbojet powered glider was this one: the Fouga CM8-R13 http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=67
>
> Gérard Pierre was silver medalist with the unpowered version, Fouga CM8-15 at the world championships 1952 at Madrid Quatro Vientos, Spain.
>
> Fouga made a whole series of derivatives, http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=159 including this Fouga Gémaux, reminiscent of the Twin Mustang: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=74
>
> And don't forget the pulse-jet gliders: the Emouchet Escopette in France: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=135 or the Bocian Puls in Poland:http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=138.
>
> In the US in the sixties to seventies (advert in Soaring july 1974, for example), Gluhareff produced pulse-jet units that could be used for gliders, and I recall an advertisement in Soaring in the same period with still another type of pulse-jet.

Somehow an Arcus seems nicer to fly than a Fouga, Bocian or Craponi.
Admittedly never flown a Fouga.
Will anyone want to convert their glider to any of those other self-launch systems? Bob is on to something good. The Bonus Jet proved the system's capability, and climbs at nearly 1000 feet per minute with two on board.
Jim

[jfitch]

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:44:12 AM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 12:15:20 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > I don't know about "significant long flights", but the jet glider idea is certainly not new: I think the first turbojet powered glider was this one: the Fouga CM8-R13 http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=67
> >
> > Gérard Pierre was silver medalist with the unpowered version, Fouga CM8-15 at the world championships 1952 at Madrid Quatro Vientos, Spain.
> >
> > Fouga made a whole series of derivatives, http://www.minijets.org/index..php?id=159 including this Fouga Gémaux, reminiscent of the Twin Mustang: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=74
> >
> > And don't forget the pulse-jet gliders: the Emouchet Escopette in France: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=135 or the Bocian Puls in Poland:http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=138.
> >
> > In the US in the sixties to seventies (advert in Soaring july 1974, for example), Gluhareff produced pulse-jet units that could be used for gliders, and I recall an advertisement in Soaring in the same period with still another type of pulse-jet.
>
> Somehow an Arcus seems nicer to fly than a Fouga, Bocian or Craponi.
> Admittedly never flown a Fouga.
> Will anyone want to convert their glider to any of those other self-launch systems? Bob is on to something good. The Bonus Jet proved the system's capability, and climbs at nearly 1000 feet per minute with two on board.
> Jim


Fuel burn rate?

[AS]

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 1:44:12 PM UTC-4, JS wrote:
> On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 12:15:20 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > I don't know about "significant long flights", but the jet glider idea is certainly not new: I think the first turbojet powered glider was this one: the Fouga CM8-R13 http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=67
> >
> > Gérard Pierre was silver medalist with the unpowered version, Fouga CM8-15 at the world championships 1952 at Madrid Quatro Vientos, Spain.
> >
> > Fouga made a whole series of derivatives, http://www.minijets.org/index..php?id=159 including this Fouga Gémaux, reminiscent of the Twin Mustang: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=74
> >
> > And don't forget the pulse-jet gliders: the Emouchet Escopette in France: http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=135 or the Bocian Puls in Poland:http://www.minijets.org/index.php?id=138.
> >
> > In the US in the sixties to seventies (advert in Soaring july 1974, for example), Gluhareff produced pulse-jet units that could be used for gliders, and I recall an advertisement in Soaring in the same period with still another type of pulse-jet.
>
> Somehow an Arcus seems nicer to fly than a Fouga, Bocian or Craponi.
> Admittedly never flown a Fouga.
> Will anyone want to convert their glider to any of those other self-launch systems? Bob is on to something good. The Bonus Jet proved the system's capability, and climbs at nearly 1000 feet per minute with two on board.
> Jim


>>> ... or Craponi. <<<
I give you the benefits of the doubt and call it a honest typo!
Apologies accepted ;-)

Uli
Calif enthusiast

[[email protected]]

We are completely aware that turbine power has been added to gliders as far back as 1947. Indeed, Bob Carlton has researched and assembled a fine presentation on the history of jet gliders that he has presented at several SSA Conventions, as well as at Scaled Composites and a number of aviation seminars.

Bob has been flying jet powered gliders on the airshow circuit since 2004 (www.vertigoairshows.com) and began commercial development of variations as early as 2009 (www.desertaerospace.com).

The jet Arcus project is simply the latest in a line of developments going back to the Wright brothers' efforts to add a powerplant to a glider.

As far as we know, Dennis Tito's 4,000+ km in the first three flights of this modern glider with a sophisticated turbine from PBS represents a higher level of performance than previous attempts. We fully recognize and applaud earlier applications of turbines to gliders.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 8:04:47 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> We are completely aware that turbine power has been added to gliders as far back as 1947. Indeed, Bob Carlton has researched and assembled a fine presentation on the history of jet gliders that he has presented at several SSA Conventions, as well as at Scaled Composites and a number of aviation seminars.
>
> Bob has been flying jet powered gliders on the airshow circuit since 2004 (www.vertigoairshows.com) and began commercial development of variations as early as 2009 (www.desertaerospace.com).
>
> The jet Arcus project is simply the latest in a line of developments going back to the Wright brothers' efforts to add a powerplant to a glider.
>
> As far as we know, Dennis Tito's 4,000+ km in the first three flights of this modern glider with a sophisticated turbine from PBS represents a higher level of performance than previous attempts. We fully recognize and applaud earlier applications of turbines to gliders.

Didn't he previously do probably at least a 4000 km unpowered flight in just a few minutes, ending with a BRS landing in Kazakstan?

The L/D ratio was pretty ****ty, but the release altitude was unbeatable.

[[email protected]]

Bruce-

Good one!

MSM

[Renny[_2_]]

On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 12:38:47 PM UTC-6, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 18, 2016 at 8:04:47 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> > We are completely aware that turbine power has been added to gliders as far back as 1947. Indeed, Bob Carlton has researched and assembled a fine presentation on the history of jet gliders that he has presented at several SSA Conventions, as well as at Scaled Composites and a number of aviation seminars.
> >
> > Bob has been flying jet powered gliders on the airshow circuit since 2004 (www.vertigoairshows.com) and began commercial development of variations as early as 2009 (www.desertaerospace.com).
> >
> > The jet Arcus project is simply the latest in a line of developments going back to the Wright brothers' efforts to add a powerplant to a glider.
> >
> > As far as we know, Dennis Tito's 4,000+ km in the first three flights of this modern glider with a sophisticated turbine from PBS represents a higher level of performance than previous attempts. We fully recognize and applaud earlier applications of turbines to gliders.
>
> Didn't he previously do probably at least a 4000 km unpowered flight in just a few minutes, ending with a BRS landing in Kazakstan?
>
> The L/D ratio was pretty ****ty, but the release altitude was unbeatable.

I am very sorry, but since this alleged flight that ended in Kazakhstan was not posted on the OLC, it did not happen.......and the moon landing in 1969, well that is another story...I have heard from unnamed sources that the Apollo 11 folks simply forgot their FAI approved logger....oh well...."The truth is out there......." ;-)

[JJJ]

. . . Launching from Inyokern, CA at sunrise, Dennis and designer/copilot Bob Carlton powered up to 8,000 MSL and found the wave. . . .

Cool! Now we can have a glider be the towplane for another glider! ;)

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

JJJ wrote on 10/19/2016 10:07 AM:
> ;930557 Wrote:
>> . . . Launching from Inyokern, CA at sunrise, Dennis and
>> designer/copilot Bob Carlton powered up to 8,000 MSL and found the wave.
>> . . .
>
> Cool! Now we can have a glider be the towplane for another glider! ;)

Shucks, my Phoenix came with a towhook! If only I know how to tow ...


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Vernon Brown]

At 04:43 21 October 2016, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>JJJ wrote on 10/19/2016 10:07 AM:
>> ;930557 Wrote:
>>> . . . Launching from Inyokern, CA at sunrise, Dennis and
>>> designer/copilot Bob Carlton powered up to 8,000 MSL and found the
wave.
>>> . . .
>>
>> Cool! Now we can have a glider be the towplane for another glider! ;)
>
>Shucks, my Phoenix came with a towhook! If only I know how to tow ...
>
>
>--
>Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
>email me)
>- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
>
>https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
>- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
>
>http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf
>

I presume the jet used is bigger (more powerful) than that used in the
Ventus, and what is the fuel burn?

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I will take a stab at this. This Arcus uses a 250 pound trust engine, not sure about a jet ventus but the JS-1 jet and 304 jet have about 80 pounds of trust.

Just recently heard that the jet sailplanes are not allowed in Europe due to the noise. Could be why Schempp and Schliecher had not been leading the development of jet sailplanes.



On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 6:30:05 AM UTC-7, Vernon Brown wrote:
> At 04:43 21 October 2016, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> >JJJ wrote on 10/19/2016 10:07 AM:
> >> ;930557 Wrote:
> >>> . . . Launching from Inyokern, CA at sunrise, Dennis and
> >>> designer/copilot Bob Carlton powered up to 8,000 MSL and found the
> wave.
> >>> . . .
> >>
> >> Cool! Now we can have a glider be the towplane for another glider! ;)
> >
> >Shucks, my Phoenix came with a towhook! If only I know how to tow ...
> >
> >
> >--
> >Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
> >email me)
> >- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
> >
> >https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
> >- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
> >
> >http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf
> >
>
> I presume the jet used is bigger (more powerful) than that used in the
> Ventus, and what is the fuel burn?

[bertvaneyken]

They are allowed ... but Europe is a crowded place, you just can't make that much noise overhead every airfield.

We have plenty noise abatement rules, curfews and airfields where engines are prohibited.

FES is much more sympathetic for the environment which is much more of a concern in Europe than in the US.