OK. How fat can I be?

[Eggs]

The soaring bug is in me. But unfortunately so is that chicken-fried steak, mashed potatoes, fried okra, turnip greens and apple pie I had for dinner.

I'm a fairly big guy; six foot, one inch tall, broad shoulders. Let's put it this way... I can't drive a Miata. Assuming I crack the scales at the beginning of next years' season at say, 240, am I going to be able to find a plane that can handle both me and an instructor? Am I going to be able to find a ship of my own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?

Be honest. I can <sniff> take it.

Curt

[John Shelton]

You can be so fat that you have to be lifted out of your room with a
Sikorsky Skycrane just to go to the crapper. You will just need a C-47 for a
glider. If you want to fit into any of the other ones, you might consider
burning a little more than you consume for a while. A half hour walk a day
until the vernal equinox should just about do it.

Or, as an alternative, I would suggest, as an appetite suppressant, taking
up smoking profusely.

[E. A. Grens]

The seat pan limits on most European gliders are 242 lb. At 6' 4" and 235
lb there are many I can fly comfortably including the G-103, ASK-21, various
DGs, my old Phoebus A-1, not to mention the SGS 2-33, SAGS 1-26, and Ka-8b.
I'm sure many others. Don't try a Libelle, Ka-6, or Ka-7.

Ed Grens

[BTIZ]

but you need a very light weight instructor..


"E. A. Grens" > wrote in message
...
> The seat pan limits on most European gliders are 242 lb. At 6' 4" and 235
> lb there are many I can fly comfortably including the G-103, ASK-21,
various
> DGs, my old Phoebus A-1, not to mention the SGS 2-33, SAGS 1-26, and
Ka-8b.
> I'm sure many others. Don't try a Libelle, Ka-6, or Ka-7.
>
> Ed Grens
>
>
>

[Gary Kemp]

I have flown for 35 years, weigh 245 (plus clothing and chute). 6'3"
and wear a 48 long, (lifted weights for 45 years). I have owned 1-34,
1-35, Pegasus and now a Nimbus 3. Of course I have to sit on the
cockpit floor, with no seat pan. There are a few of us who fly
gliders that are also plus sizes.

Gary


"Eggs" > wrote in message >...
> The soaring bug is in me. But unfortunately so is that chicken-fried
> steak, mashed potatoes, fried okra, turnip greens and apple pie I had
> for dinner.
>
> I'm a fairly big guy; six foot, one inch tall, broad shoulders. Let's
> put it this way... I can't drive a Miata. Assuming I crack the scales at
> the beginning of next years' season at say, 240, am I going to be able
> to find a plane that can handle both me and an instructor? Am I going to
> be able to find a ship of my own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?
>
> Be honest. I can <sniff> take it.
>
> Curt
>
>
> --

[goneill]

I am similar size to you and I find the Grob 102 /103 twin 2 seater fit me easily ,for more advanced gliders
S H gliders seem best ,ventus b /c ,nimbus 2 and 3 never seen a 4 model ,Lak 12 will not need any lead
bolted into the tail to balance the glider's c of g.You have a lot of choices and if you buy into one of your
own you can reweigh the glider and have the cg range adjusted with lead.
Another trick is to have a parachute that is in a pack in the locker space behind your head and wear a
harness with static lines to the pack.


"Eggs" > wrote in message et...
The soaring bug is in me. But unfortunately so is that chicken-fried steak, mashed potatoes, fried okra, turnip greens and apple pie I had for dinner.

I'm a fairly big guy; six foot, one inch tall, broad shoulders. Let's put it this way... I can't drive a Miata. Assuming I crack the scales at the beginning of next years' season at say, 240, am I going to be able to find a plane that can handle both me and an instructor? Am I going to be able to find a ship of my own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?

Be honest. I can <sniff> take it.

Curt

[Steve H]

Try buying a Slingsby Capstan. Two seats, side-by-side and an huge max
cockpit weight. (Slingsby only specified a Max cockpit weight and
omitted to stipulate a max seat weight. The cockpit is large enough to
accommodate a small cocktail cabinet for those (rare) occasions when you
land out. It handles very well with absolutely no vices. The only
problem is that the glide angle reflects its wood-wire-and-fabric
construction. It is still my favourite two seater.
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Glider Pilot Network ]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 1:50 AM
To: Steve H
Subject: [r.a.s] OK. How fat can I be?


------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: OK. How fat can I be?
Author: Eggs <@>
Date/Time: 00:40 25 September 2003
------------------------------------------------------------
The soaring bug is in me. But unfortunately so is that chicken-fried
steak, mashed potatoes, fried okra, turnip greens and apple pie I had
for dinner.

I'm a fairly big guy; six foot, one inch tall, broad shoulders. Let's
put it this way... I can't drive a Miata. Assuming I crack the scales at

the beginning of next years' season at say, 240, am I going to be able

to find a plane that can handle both me and an instructor? Am I going to

be able to find a ship of my own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?

Be honest. I can take it.

Curt


------------------------------------------------------------

[George William Peter Reinhart]

Eggs,
Don't give it up just because you're not one of those underfed, shrimpy
european body types whose max weight by regulation can never be over 242
lbs.
I can assure you that the Nimbus 2 I recently sold had more than adequate
space for a Texas sized pilot and a C. G. range to match. The LS-4 comes to
mind as a wonderful glider to fly and a spacious cockpit as well, if you
get one with a tail battery box, you'll probably be able to tailor the C.G
to suit you. There are others that come to mind as well so look around some
and you'll find a wide choice available. My understanding of the 242 max
cockpit weight for most recent Euro gliders is that it is the minimum
weight for certification of the cockpit restraints under JAR 22 and has
little to do with the actual strength of the airframe. I remember that the
LS-!F had around 276 as the max cockpit weight. It'll be a tight fit
though.
Cheers!, Pete

Eggs > wrote in article
>...
> What's the L/D on a C-47? Does it come in a kit? What do you use for a
tug?
>
> Maybe I should phrase my question thus: Even a slender rough and tough me
> isn't going to weigh less than 220. Seriously. So should I just give up
this
> soaring dream and go back to fuel-sucking noisemakers?
>
> Perhaps my question was too tongue-in-cheek, but it was a serious
> nonetheless.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Curt
>
>
>
> "John Shelton" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > You can be so fat that you have to be lifted out of your room with a
> > Sikorsky Skycrane just to go to the crapper. You will just need a C-47
for
> a
> > glider. If you want to fit into any of the other ones, you might
consider
> > burning a little more than you consume for a while. A half hour walk a
day
> > until the vernal equinox should just about do it.
> >
> > Or, as an alternative, I would suggest, as an appetite suppressant,
taking
> > up smoking profusely.
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Bob Kuykendall]

"Eggs" > wrote in message news:<fUqcb.4705

> Am I going to be able to find a ship of my
> own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?

I'm working on it. Please be patient.

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

[303pilot]

You make it into any JAR certified single place glider with 2 lbs to spare!
Your problem will be finding an instructor light enough to fly with you. Most two place trainers I've seen in the US have a useful load in the low 400 lb range. Talk to the local clubs & commercial operations to see if their ships & instructors create combinations that will work with your weight.
"Eggs" > wrote in message et...
The soaring bug is in me. But unfortunately so is that chicken-fried steak, mashed potatoes, fried okra, turnip greens and apple pie I had for dinner.

I'm a fairly big guy; six foot, one inch tall, broad shoulders. Let's put it this way... I can't drive a Miata. Assuming I crack the scales at the beginning of next years' season at say, 240, am I going to be able to find a plane that can handle both me and an instructor? Am I going to be able to find a ship of my own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?

Be honest. I can <sniff> take it.

Curt

[Scott]

Oops, meant 247
"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> G103 allows for up to 147 i believe.
> "Eggs" > wrote in message
> et...
> > What's the L/D on a C-47? Does it come in a kit? What do you use for a
> tug?
> >
> > Maybe I should phrase my question thus: Even a slender rough and tough
me
> > isn't going to weigh less than 220. Seriously. So should I just give up
> this
> > soaring dream and go back to fuel-sucking noisemakers?
> >
> > Perhaps my question was too tongue-in-cheek, but it was a serious
> > nonetheless.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Curt
> >
> >
> >
> > "John Shelton" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > > You can be so fat that you have to be lifted out of your room with a
> > > Sikorsky Skycrane just to go to the crapper. You will just need a C-47
> for
> > a
> > > glider. If you want to fit into any of the other ones, you might
> consider
> > > burning a little more than you consume for a while. A half hour walk a
> day
> > > until the vernal equinox should just about do it.
> > >
> > > Or, as an alternative, I would suggest, as an appetite suppressant,
> taking
> > > up smoking profusely.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
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[BTIZ]

I wonder how many of these flying "over seat max" are ones that are having
the wings come apart.

You can do what you want.. but over limit is over limit..

And there is also a limit.. for some but not all gliders.. of "max weight of
the non lifting parts"...

BT
"Be wary of buying a glider from a big (fat) pilot"

"Bruce Greeff" > wrote in message
...
> Another option is the Schempp-hirth Standard Cirrus it's comfortable
> for my 6'2" 235lb lump of humanity. Much over 6'4" and there will be no
> headroom but the cockpit is wide and the CG range reasonable too. Not
> particularly forgiving of hamfisted beginners but a very nice glider -
> particularly if you fly precisely.
>
> Cockpit limit is oficially 110kg but I have seen a lot more than that
> flying them quite safely. The seatbelts are certified using a 110kg mass
> - hence the limit.
>
> George William Peter Reinhart wrote:
>
> > Eggs,
> > Don't give it up just because you're not one of those underfed, shrimpy
> > european body types whose max weight by regulation can never be over 242
> > lbs.
> > I can assure you that the Nimbus 2 I recently sold had more than
adequate
> > space for a Texas sized pilot and a C. G. range to match. The LS-4 comes
to
> > mind as a wonderful glider to fly and a spacious cockpit as well, if you
> > get one with a tail battery box, you'll probably be able to tailor the
C.G
> > to suit you. There are others that come to mind as well so look around
some
> > and you'll find a wide choice available. My understanding of the 242 max
> > cockpit weight for most recent Euro gliders is that it is the minimum
> > weight for certification of the cockpit restraints under JAR 22 and has
> > little to do with the actual strength of the airframe. I remember that
the
> > LS-!F had around 276 as the max cockpit weight. It'll be a tight fit
> > though.
> > Cheers!, Pete
> >
> > Eggs > wrote in article
> > >...
> >
> >>What's the L/D on a C-47? Does it come in a kit? What do you use for a
> >
> > tug?
> >
> >>Maybe I should phrase my question thus: Even a slender rough and tough
me
> >>isn't going to weigh less than 220. Seriously. So should I just give up
> >
> > this
> >
> >>soaring dream and go back to fuel-sucking noisemakers?
> >>
> >>Perhaps my question was too tongue-in-cheek, but it was a serious
> >>nonetheless.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>
> >>Curt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>"John Shelton" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >>
> >>>You can be so fat that you have to be lifted out of your room with a
> >>>Sikorsky Skycrane just to go to the crapper. You will just need a C-47
> >
> > for
> >
> >>a
> >>
> >>>glider. If you want to fit into any of the other ones, you might
> >
> > consider
> >
> >>>burning a little more than you consume for a while. A half hour walk a
> >
> > day
> >
> >>>until the vernal equinox should just about do it.
> >>>
> >>>Or, as an alternative, I would suggest, as an appetite suppressant,
> >
> > taking
> >
> >>>up smoking profusely.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>

[W.J. \(Bill\) Dean \(U.K.\).]

I understand that the maximum cockpit weight is the lowest figure set by the
following four limitations:

Max. all up weight for the whole glider.
Max. weight for the non-lifting parts.
Max. weight by moments (forward C. of G. limit).
Max. weight per the handbook (weight the seat, seatbelts etc. is stressed
for).

The placard should show the lowest of the above weights as the maximum.

It is quite normal for a tandem two-seater flown solo (e.g. K21) to have a
maximum weight over 300 lbs. for the front seat on the first three criteria,
it is the seat stressing case which limits it to 110kg. (242lbs.).

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.

"Eggs" > wrote in message
et...

The soaring bug is in me. But unfortunately so is that chicken-fried steak,
mashed potatoes, fried okra, turnip greens and apple pie I had for dinner.

I'm a fairly big guy; six foot, one inch tall, broad shoulders. Let's put it
this way... I can't drive a Miata. Assuming I crack the scales at the
beginning of next years' season at say, 240, am I going to be able to find a
plane that can handle both me and an instructor? Am I going to be able to
find a ship of my own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?

Be honest. I can <sniff> take it.

Curt

[Bruce Greeff]

I agree - was not endorsing overloading or uncontrolled experimenting.

Best approach is to lose weight. (Muscle or Fat)

[Andreas Maurer]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:39:21 -0700, "BTIZ" >
wrote:

>I wonder how many of these flying "over seat max" are ones that are having
>the wings come apart.

I've seen a Lo-100 shred its wing during a roll - the pilot's
parachute opened 100 ft over the ground. He was nearly 100 pounds
overweight.



Bye
Andreas

[BTIZ]

> I've seen a Lo-100 shred its wing during a roll - the pilot's
> parachute opened 100 ft over the ground. He was nearly 100 pounds
> overweight.

It's bad enough flying over gross... but intentional rolls??

one lucky pilot.. with a Wylie Coyote parachute..

BT

[Bruce Greeff]

Proof that demonstrating sufficient skill to be allowed to fly a glider
does not imply having the sense to avoid killing yourself in one...

Flying overweight implies that you have made the safe flight envelope
smaller. You are in the experimental area - even if you neglect to
register this by moving the glider to the experimental category.

Low level aerobatics are high risk at the best of times. Not a good
place to be testing where exactly the envelope limits are.

Andreas Maurer wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:39:21 -0700, "BTIZ" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I wonder how many of these flying "over seat max" are ones that are having
>>the wings come apart.
>
>
> I've seen a Lo-100 shred its wing during a roll - the pilot's
> parachute opened 100 ft over the ground. He was nearly 100 pounds
> overweight.
>
>
>
> Bye
> Andreas

[Tony Verhulst]

Jeff Dorwart wrote:
> Perhaps there is a Schweitzer 2-32 available in your
> area. Useful load 231 Kg/509lbs. Designed to carry
> three adults but makes a good trainer with two big
> guys. jbd

I've flown a 2-32 and have heard a lot of things said about them. Having
it called a "good trainer" has never been one of them. I can't imagine
any club or FBO that would solo a student in one.

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING/index.htm

[Bill Daniels]

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
...
> Jeff Dorwart wrote:
> > Perhaps there is a Schweitzer 2-32 available in your
> > area. Useful load 231 Kg/509lbs. Designed to carry
> > three adults but makes a good trainer with two big
> > guys. jbd
>
> I've flown a 2-32 and have heard a lot of things said about them. Having
> it called a "good trainer" has never been one of them. I can't imagine
> any club or FBO that would solo a student in one.
>
> Tony V.
> http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING/index.htm

I've flown 20 or so different 2-32's and the handling varied greatly from
quite docile to damn tricky. This could not be attributed entirely to
weight or CG location so I put it down to poor quality control at the
factory. However even the worst became more docile with forward CG.

I would think if you are lucky and find a docile one and the big guy moves
the CG far enough forward, it would be possible to solo a good student in
one. Lots of qualifiers here.

Bill Daniels

[Slingsby]

"Eggs" > wrote in message >...
> The soaring bug is in me. But unfortunately so is that chicken-fried
> steak, mashed potatoes, fried okra, turnip greens and apple pie I had
> for dinner.
>
> I'm a fairly big guy; six foot, one inch tall, broad shoulders. Let's
> put it this way... I can't drive a Miata. Assuming I crack the scales at
> the beginning of next years' season at say, 240, am I going to be able
> to find a plane that can handle both me and an instructor? Am I going to
> be able to find a ship of my own later? That I can afford (read: cheap)?
>
> Be honest. I can <sniff> take it.
>
> Curt
************************************************** ********************************
You would easily fit in a Genesis 2. Following was lifted from the
GenesisFlyers Yahoo site. It was posted sometime in 2000.

Hello Genesis lovers...

Dave wrote...

"First of all, a pilot's "sitting height" will
limit his fit at one of two spots: the stick or
the canopy...".

Let me begin my reply with a Big Thanks for all the
helpful comments from list members (I am the fellow
who "doesn't fit" and therefore started this thread).

Allow me to elaborate on my position (literally!)...

All humans (99.999%) are born with a certain number of vertebra,
either "X" (I forget the exact number) or "X+1". Those
with "X+1" are called "long waisted". Your vertebra
size will be proportionate to your frame size (i.e.
taller people will have larger vertebra).

I am an "X+1" guy who is 6'5" tall. Therefore, the
very tall "sitting height" (a term which almost-
solely decides what ejection-seat jets you are
allowed to fly in the military) is reflective of a
"X-vertebra" person 6'7" to 6'8" tall.

In a Genesis, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM fitting
in the cockpit from a stick/pedal standpoint. Head
room is the only issue.

In fact (shameless plug) I was a Designer,
Cockpit Displays and Operational Logic Subsystem
for the B-() bomber, and can say as a professional
crewstation designer that the G2 is not just "a
good glider cockpit", but a marvel of efficiency and
in fact a superb design. If anybody does not
"like" something about the G2 cockpit, it is because
of a personal preference lying outside the realm of
"optimized effectiveness" (and yes, improvements
could undoubtedly be made but they would be trivial).

All of the "fit" suggestions made by list-members were
tried by me at Lift 2000. No-go. But hey! I'm a giant
and "fitting everybody" would make for a sport-glider,
not a hi-performance machine. A G2 sized as an LS-8 (i.e.
"cockpits for midgets" :) and no offense intended to the
vertically-challenged) would likely stomp the
competition back into the stone age.

[Dick Johnson]

> The maximum cockpit weight question came up recently in regard to Dean Carswell's and my Flight Test of a DG-1000S recently, and after researching it we posted the folling reply:

"JAR-22 requires a minimum max cockpit design loading of 180 kg for
a two-place sailplane, but the designer can
indeed design and certify to a higher maximum, if he
so desires. The manual for the DG-1000 that we flight
tested last spring stated that the total, both seats
loading should not exceed 210 kg.

Since I flew the test flights with John Earlywine,
we were close to, but did not exceed the 210 kg limit.
Between the two of us with parachutes, we totaled
about 205 kg."
Dick JOhnson