Mountain High oxygen systems

[Simon Waddell]

Christmas is a-comin' etc. and I'm thinking of replacing my old A14 diluter
demand system with a Mountain High EDS system. The A14 hasn't been used for
years; now I'm living in the mountains I want something I know I can trust

Can I trust the EDS system? Anybody out there got anything good or bad to
say about it? Should I swap my old steel bottle for a new one - if so,
aloominum or kevlar? I like the idea of the canular - is it reliable?

[Bill Daniels]

"Simon Waddell" > wrote in message
...
> Christmas is a-comin' etc. and I'm thinking of replacing my old A14
diluter
> demand system with a Mountain High EDS system. The A14 hasn't been used
for
> years; now I'm living in the mountains I want something I know I can trust
>
> Can I trust the EDS system? Anybody out there got anything good or bad to
> say about it? Should I swap my old steel bottle for a new one - if so,
> aloominum or kevlar? I like the idea of the canular - is it reliable?
>
EDS is good, a freshly overhauled A-14 is better.

With a good mask fit, the A-14 will keep your blood oxygen saturation at a
steady 98-99% up to 40,000 feet. It's a safe and solid bit of equipment.
I've never seen anything that good with a nasal cannula. Also there is
cost. I hear that an A-14 can be overhauled for about $350 and the purchase
price of an EDS is three times that.

Below 18,000' a cannula is much more comfortable than the old olive drab
masks, however

Steel bottles are heavy but cheap. Aluminum and kevlar are light but very
expensive. I guess it depends on what the overall W&B of your glider (and
wallet) looks like.

Bill Daniels

[Mark Zivley]

One other point related to bottles. With the aluminum and the steel you
can get them hydro tested at the prescribed intervals and they are
basically not a life limited item. The composite bottles have a
specified service life of about 10 years. After the 10ish year life (I
think it's the DOT) says they are to be destroyed. Hopefully this life
expecancy will be extended as they build up a succesful track record.

Bill Daniels wrote:
> "Simon Waddell" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Christmas is a-comin' etc. and I'm thinking of replacing my old A14
>
> diluter
>
>>demand system with a Mountain High EDS system. The A14 hasn't been used
>
> for
>
>>years; now I'm living in the mountains I want something I know I can trust
>>
>>Can I trust the EDS system? Anybody out there got anything good or bad to
>>say about it? Should I swap my old steel bottle for a new one - if so,
>>aloominum or kevlar? I like the idea of the canular - is it reliable?
>>
>
> EDS is good, a freshly overhauled A-14 is better.
>
> With a good mask fit, the A-14 will keep your blood oxygen saturation at a
> steady 98-99% up to 40,000 feet. It's a safe and solid bit of equipment.
> I've never seen anything that good with a nasal cannula. Also there is
> cost. I hear that an A-14 can be overhauled for about $350 and the purchase
> price of an EDS is three times that.
>
> Below 18,000' a cannula is much more comfortable than the old olive drab
> masks, however
>
> Steel bottles are heavy but cheap. Aluminum and kevlar are light but very
> expensive. I guess it depends on what the overall W&B of your glider (and
> wallet) looks like.
>
> Bill Daniels
>

[Stefan]

Simon Waddell wrote:
>
> Christmas is a-comin' etc. and I'm thinking of replacing my old A14 diluter
> demand system with a Mountain High EDS system.

Go for it, you'll love it!

One point: Theoretically, the cannula is even more efficient than a mask
- as long as you make sure you're breathing through the nose! (This is
the only reason why the manufactorer recommends a mask at altitude.)

Stefan

[John Morgan]

"Mark Zivley" > wrote in message
...
> One other point related to bottles. With the aluminum and the steel you
> can get them hydro tested at the prescribed intervals and they are
> basically not a life limited item. The composite bottles have a
> specified service life of about 10 years. After the 10ish year life (I
> think it's the DOT) says they are to be destroyed. Hopefully this life
> expecancy will be extended as they build up a succesful track record.


I believe the life-limit term you're referring to is actually 15 years. But
there are other differences - DOT requires steel bottles be hydro-tested
every 5 years. Most composites need to be tested every 3. There are a few
composite bottles (including the carbon fiber full wrap bottle I sell to
other Stemme owners) that have a 5 year test interval.

I haven't used an A14, but have used an older Oximizer cannula system and
Mountain High's EDS. I much prefer the EDS. The EDS's calibrated pulse of O2
tends not to dry out nasal passages as much as the other and just feels
better. O2 saturation remains acceptable higher than the 18 K the FAA
considers the limit for cannula.

--
bumper >
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
to reply, the last half is right to left


---
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[Jim Skydell]

Simon:
See my article on pulse oximeters and the EDS system in the Sept. issue of Southern
California Soaring, the online newsletter of the Region 12 Soaring Council:

http://www.socalsoaring.com

Click on Sept 2003 issue.

Regards,
Jim

[dennis brown]

You've touched on the shortcoming of the system. There is no
indication of actual flow to the mask (I am assuming the mask as the
worst case). Red/Green indicators are worse than worthless because
they may decrease the delivery.

Use an pulse oximeter with the system.


In article >, "dusty"
> wrote:
>I have had occasional problems. My breathing does not always activate the
>sensor so that no squirt of oxygen is receive. I had the experience of
>flying most of the afternoon at over 17k and noticing toward the end that I
>felt like I had hypoxia. But I would take a breath and look at the EDS and
>get the green light so everything seemed ok.
>
>I do not hear too well at certain frequencies. But during the afternoon I
>kept hearing (barely) a buzzing. Finally I realized that my EDS was saying
>that there was a problem.
>
>After some investigation after landing, I realized that when I would 'check'
>the EDS by inhaling, the inhalation was slightly larger than my normal
>breathing. This would activate the EDS. My normal breathing does not always
>activate the EDS.
>
>Changing the cannulus and tubing seems to helps for the first time or two
>but then it begins not always noticing my inhalation.
>
>I do have to use a sleep apnea machinge. Maybe there is some relationship.
>
>
>Later I notice
>"Simon Waddell" > wrote in message
...
>> Christmas is a-comin' etc. and I'm thinking of replacing my old A14
>diluter
>> demand system with a Mountain High EDS system. The A14 hasn't been used
>for
>> years; now I'm living in the mountains I want something I know I can trust
>>
>> Can I trust the EDS system? Anybody out there got anything good or bad to
>> say about it? Should I swap my old steel bottle for a new one - if so,
>> aloominum or kevlar? I like the idea of the canular - is it reliable?
>>
>>
>
>

[Al]

You typically do not use a mask with an EDS its a canular based system.

If you breath out of you mouth then the EDS will not get the pressure change
to fire off its next shot of O2

So in order to achive this you have to remember to exhale through your nose.
The latest version of the EDS will sound a warning if you have not had a
proper breathing cycle in X nunber of mins depending on your altitude.

I suspect people earlier in this thread saying they do not have it work for
them are exhaling by their mouths.

Al

"dennis brown" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> You've touched on the shortcoming of the system. There is no
> indication of actual flow to the mask (I am assuming the mask as the
> worst case). Red/Green indicators are worse than worthless because
> they may decrease the delivery.
>
> Use an pulse oximeter with the system.
>
>
> In article >, "dusty"
> > wrote:
> >I have had occasional problems. My breathing does not always activate the
> >sensor so that no squirt of oxygen is receive. I had the experience of
> >flying most of the afternoon at over 17k and noticing toward the end that
I
> >felt like I had hypoxia. But I would take a breath and look at the EDS
and
> >get the green light so everything seemed ok.
> >
> >I do not hear too well at certain frequencies. But during the afternoon I
> >kept hearing (barely) a buzzing. Finally I realized that my EDS was
saying
> >that there was a problem.
> >
> >After some investigation after landing, I realized that when I would
'check'
> >the EDS by inhaling, the inhalation was slightly larger than my normal
> >breathing. This would activate the EDS. My normal breathing does not
always
> >activate the EDS.
> >
> >Changing the cannulus and tubing seems to helps for the first time or two
> >but then it begins not always noticing my inhalation.
> >
> >I do have to use a sleep apnea machinge. Maybe there is some
relationship.
> >
> >
> >Later I notice
> >"Simon Waddell" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Christmas is a-comin' etc. and I'm thinking of replacing my old A14
> >diluter
> >> demand system with a Mountain High EDS system. The A14 hasn't been
used
> >for
> >> years; now I'm living in the mountains I want something I know I can
trust
> >>
> >> Can I trust the EDS system? Anybody out there got anything good or bad
to
> >> say about it? Should I swap my old steel bottle for a new one - if so,
> >> aloominum or kevlar? I like the idea of the canular - is it reliable?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

[Dusty]

What you are saying makes sense. As I have gotten older I have gotten more
hay fever. I may be breath a little through my mouth now to compensate for
partially blocked nostrils. When I check the EDS, I may subconsciously
'shape up' and do it right.

"Al" > wrote in message
...
> You typically do not use a mask with an EDS its a canular based system.
>
> If you breath out of you mouth then the EDS will not get the pressure
change
> to fire off its next shot of O2
>
> So in order to achive this you have to remember to exhale through your
nose.
> The latest version of the EDS will sound a warning if you have not had a
> proper breathing cycle in X nunber of mins depending on your altitude.
>
> I suspect people earlier in this thread saying they do not have it work
for
> them are exhaling by their mouths.
>
> Al
>
> "dennis brown" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > You've touched on the shortcoming of the system. There is no
> > indication of actual flow to the mask (I am assuming the mask as the
> > worst case). Red/Green indicators are worse than worthless because
> > they may decrease the delivery.
> >
> > Use an pulse oximeter with the system.
> >
> >
> > In article >, "dusty"
> > > wrote:
> > >I have had occasional problems. My breathing does not always activate
the
> > >sensor so that no squirt of oxygen is receive. I had the experience of
> > >flying most of the afternoon at over 17k and noticing toward the end
that
> I
> > >felt like I had hypoxia. But I would take a breath and look at the EDS
> and
> > >get the green light so everything seemed ok.
> > >
> > >I do not hear too well at certain frequencies. But during the afternoon
I
> > >kept hearing (barely) a buzzing. Finally I realized that my EDS was
> saying
> > >that there was a problem.
> > >
> > >After some investigation after landing, I realized that when I would
> 'check'
> > >the EDS by inhaling, the inhalation was slightly larger than my normal
> > >breathing. This would activate the EDS. My normal breathing does not
> always
> > >activate the EDS.
> > >
> > >Changing the cannulus and tubing seems to helps for the first time or
two
> > >but then it begins not always noticing my inhalation.
> > >
> > >I do have to use a sleep apnea machinge. Maybe there is some
> relationship.
> > >
> > >
> > >Later I notice
> > >"Simon Waddell" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> Christmas is a-comin' etc. and I'm thinking of replacing my old A14
> > >diluter
> > >> demand system with a Mountain High EDS system. The A14 hasn't been
> used
> > >for
> > >> years; now I'm living in the mountains I want something I know I can
> trust
> > >>
> > >> Can I trust the EDS system? Anybody out there got anything good or
bad
> to
> > >> say about it? Should I swap my old steel bottle for a new one - if
so,
> > >> aloominum or kevlar? I like the idea of the canular - is it
reliable?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
>

[Stefan]

Martin Hellman wrote:
>
> Just so I'm not accused of being a MH schill, I agree with the two
> downsides that have been mentioned: higher initial cost and only legal
> to 18k.

I'm repeating myself, but: Believe it or not, there's actually life
outside the USA! The original poster posted with an *.ch address. If
he's really living in Switzerland, as this address implies, then there's
absolutely no legal concern. There are *no* regulations for oxygen use
by private pilots here.

Stefan

[Bert Willing]

Exactly, and flights in a glider above 18k are very rare, to put it
optimistically :-)

I've been using the EDS for years now, and it's just the way to go. It's
fairly expensive, but it's worth it. A couple of years ago, I had a unit
fail completely and it was replaced by MH without any hassle - lifetime
warranty.

However, depending on the mounting and storage of the unit, the main switch
sucks a bit because it is not well protected against accidental switching on
(EDS1, that is). With the unit running in the storage bag, battery life is
limited and having a spare battery in the glider is a very good idea.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Stefan" > a écrit dans le message de
...
> Martin Hellman wrote:
> >
> > Just so I'm not accused of being a MH schill, I agree with the two
> > downsides that have been mentioned: higher initial cost and only legal
> > to 18k.
>
> I'm repeating myself, but: Believe it or not, there's actually life
> outside the USA! The original poster posted with an *.ch address. If
> he's really living in Switzerland, as this address implies, then there's
> absolutely no legal concern. There are *no* regulations for oxygen use
> by private pilots here.
>
> Stefan

[Eric Greenwell]

In article >, -
this-bit-out.com says...
>I've been using the EDS for years now, and it's just the way to go. It's
>fairly expensive, but it's worth it. A couple of years ago, I had a unit
>fail completely and it was replaced by MH without any hassle - lifetime
>warranty.
>
>However, depending on the mounting and storage of the unit, the main switch
>sucks a bit because it is not well protected against accidental switching on
>(EDS1, that is). With the unit running in the storage bag, battery life is
>limited and having a spare battery in the glider is a very good idea.

Do you have the plastic switch protector plate that mounts over the
switches, recessing them enough to make accidental switching much less
likely? It's a big help on my unit.

--
-------
Eric Greenwell USA

[Eric Greenwell]

In article >,
says...
>The new ones have a much better arrangement than the version Eric is using.
>
>Time to upgrade Eric

And they have other worthwhile features, including more warnings, and a
smaller size, which would fit better in my glider, but I'm too cheap.
Gotta save my money for the aerotows JJ is going to make me take!

--
-------
Eric Greenwell USA

[Bert Willing]

Yep, but this plate is fixed by elastics and that's not really reliable.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Eric Greenwell" > a écrit dans le message de
t...
> In article >, -
> this-bit-out.com says...
> >I've been using the EDS for years now, and it's just the way to go. It's
> >fairly expensive, but it's worth it. A couple of years ago, I had a unit
> >fail completely and it was replaced by MH without any hassle - lifetime
> >warranty.
> >
> >However, depending on the mounting and storage of the unit, the main
switch
> >sucks a bit because it is not well protected against accidental switching
on
> >(EDS1, that is). With the unit running in the storage bag, battery life
is
> >limited and having a spare battery in the glider is a very good idea.
>
> Do you have the plastic switch protector plate that mounts over the
> switches, recessing them enough to make accidental switching much less
> likely? It's a big help on my unit.
>
> --
> -------
> Eric Greenwell USA