best tow rope length

[Morris Carter]

for aero tows which is best, and which are dangerous

[Bruce Hoult]

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 11:00:06 PM UTC+3, Morris Carter wrote:
> for aero tows which is best, and which are dangerous

Just recently discussed here (again)

Most places around the world use 50 - 60 m.

Longer is safer, up to a limit, as it gives the glider pilot more time to react.

Some claim a shorter rope lets you get out of shorter fields. It's true, obviously, but if your field is short enough this makes a difference then I'd question towing out of it at all.

Some claim a shorter rope lets you be in the same airmass as the tow plane in rough conditions. True, on transitions you'll spend less time in the old air mass, but the height difference achieved (assuming no correction by the pilot) before you get into the same air mass will be proportional to the rope length, and the angle of the rope will be inversely proportional to it, so there's no difference. A longer rope gives the glider pilot more time to react, and on a short rope the slalom effect may be severe if the tow plane suddenly sinks in front of you and you don't have lightning reactions.

One factor limiting rope length while I've just thought of and have never seen mentioned before: you don't want the rope length to get much more than the tow plane's thermaling radius, and CERTAINLY not to the tow plane's thermaling diameter!

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 1:00:06 PM UTC-7, Morris Carter wrote:
> for aero tows which is best, and which are dangerous

200 feet seems to work quite well for us. The shorter you get the trickier the tow is. Longer would mostly increase the chances of catching the rope on something when the towplane lands.

[WAVEGURU]

We use a longer rope than most, about 275', and I think it is much safer than a 200' rope. We drop the rope from no lower than 300' before landing most of the time.

Boggs

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

Best towrope length? The one that goes from the towplane to your release! At my club, we start with 200 feet of rope. You lose a few feet at each end for splicing on the rings. We fly from an ex military field and do not drop the rope. We have started tracking rope life. Considering Tost reel systems for the towplanes. Not interested in dropping ropes, as it adds considerably to ground crew workload and tach time on the towplane for each tow.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Steve Leonard
Kansas Soaring Association

[Tom BravoMike]

And the discussion may go on and on... After all, that's what this group is for. The only issue is that we tend to stick to our opinions or practices, because that's what we were taught by our respectable instructors. Long rope vs. short rope, high tow vs low tow (Australia), smooth "Lufthansa" landing and roll out vs "low energy" touch down (Germany), left vs right turn after release, the right of way in ridge soaring etc., etc.

On my part, from close to 1000h flight time, slightly more than half tows were done on a 100' rope, the rest here in US with 200' rope. No problems ever with either.

In my homeland (Poland) all glider pilots have to read and sign off all the glider accidents bulletins, issued by the national aviation accidents investigation agency. Somewhere in the discussion, someone asked for the accidents rate with regards to the tow rope length. Well, I can't recall a single case where the 100' rope would be indicated as the cause or factor in an accident; nor was there ever a recommendation made to use longer ropes (otherwise it would have been implemented). And yes, we do care about safety...

Inspired by this discussion I asked my gliding ground school instructor, still active at 85 yrs of age and with about 50 yrs of instruction experience.. He couldn't recall any situation where 30 meters long rope was not long enough. Actually, after a moment of reflection, he said: Anything 20 meters or more is OK.

Additional (longer) ropes would be used for a double or triple tow (yes, two or three gliders behind one tow plane), a common practice and endorsement one generation ago. It was mostly for towing the gliders from one aero club to another for competitions, to save time and gas.

I wonder how many pilots expressing their opinions here have actually any experience with shorter, i.e. 100' tow rope. Or just speculating?

How come nobody mentions the importance of the rope slack taking-up training with the 200' rope? Much less risk with 100'. And the point about the tow plane and glider being in the same air mass remains valid as well. Yes, shorter time for reaction, but aren't we supposed to be extremely focused on tow at all times and react immediately?

Talking about additional safety, it always amazes me how some countries/individuals generously approve of flying gliders without parachutes and radios.. Yes, I have friends who bailed out and saved their lives. Another topic for a world-wide brainstorming discussion, and not the first one on the issue.

And finally yes, it's the end of the season mood...

[[email protected]]

We fly from a grass field so landing with the rope trailing behind the towplane is pretty easy on the rope. When we go to paved airports we try to drop the rope before landing.

The rope absolutely should be as long as the space between the towplane and glider. Whenever our ropes didn't extend that complete distance things didn't go too well.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I like this idea of reading the accident bulletins. Perhaps SSA should put the NTSB reports of glider accidents on their web site.


On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 8:32:46 AM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote:
....> In my homeland (Poland) all glider pilots have to read and sign off all the glider accidents bulletins, issued by the national aviation accidents investigation agency.