Re: Assymbly Wing Insertion Order Question

[Tony Verhulst]

>>I have seen many ship's assembly procedures that dictate the "non"
>>forked spar be inserted first, then the forked spar. This seems
>>counter intuitive (to me), and must be for a reason. Anyone know what
>>that reason is?

> The owner didn't read the flight manual.

I know the owner (LS4-b) and he did read the manual. The manual does not
mention why.

Tony V. LS6-b

[BTIZ]

mmmm.. I'll have to check.. but our LS-4 manual says forked first..

BT

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
...
>
> >>I have seen many ship's assembly procedures that dictate the "non"
> >>forked spar be inserted first, then the forked spar. This seems
> >>counter intuitive (to me), and must be for a reason. Anyone know what
> >>that reason is?
>
> > The owner didn't read the flight manual.
>
> I know the owner (LS4-b) and he did read the manual. The manual does not
> mention why.
>
> Tony V. LS6-b
>

[Greg Arnold]

So you can see the spars on both wings as they are inserted through the
fuselage?


"Michael Pitoniak" > wrote in message
om...
> Folks,
>
> I have seen many ship's assembly procedures that dictate the "non"
> forked spar be inserted first, then the forked spar. This seems
> counter intuitive (to me), and must be for a reason. Anyone know what
> that reason is?
>
> many thanks,
>
> mike

[Ray Lovinggood]

Someone somewhere in this thread mentioned the manual
for the LS-4b listed the 'forked' end goes in second.
Hmmm, the 4b. That's the newer version of the great
LS ship. I wonder if LS updated the manual? I don't
know all of the differences between the 'b' and the
earlier models, but the 'b' has automatic hookups.
So, LS must have rewritten at least part of the manual.
I wonder if something got lost in translation for
the manual. I wonder what the manual says in the original
language?

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

>
>
>'Michael Pitoniak' wrote in message
om...
>> Folks,
>>
>> I have seen many ship's assembly procedures that
>>dictate the 'non'
>> forked spar be inserted first, then the forked spar.
>>This seems
>> counter intuitive (to me), and must be for a reason.
>>Anyone know what
>> that reason is?
>>
>> many thanks,
>>
>> mike
>
>
>

[Michael Pitoniak]

(JJ Sinclair) wrote in message >...
> > I have seen many ship's assembly procedures that dictate the "non"
> >forked spar be inserted first, then the forked spar. This seems
> >counter intuitive (to me), and must be for a reason. Anyone know what
> >that reason is?
> >
>
> The owner didn't read the flight manual.
> :>)
> JJ Sinclair

JJ

I am "the" owner of a LS4b, and was refering to my assembly manual
from LS. Over lunch today with a friend it was mentioned that the
Pilatus B4 assembly procedure is documented similarly, as is the LS3 i
believe.

Anyone with an informed response?

mp

[BTIZ]

ok.. the LS4 (not 4a or 4b) manual says left wing first.. does not mention
the fork.. I'll have to go look at it.. but I believe the left wing is
forked..

BT

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:Cangb.9841$La.4633@fed1read02...
> mmmm.. I'll have to check.. but our LS-4 manual says forked first..
>
> BT
>
> "Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > >>I have seen many ship's assembly procedures that dictate the "non"
> > >>forked spar be inserted first, then the forked spar. This seems
> > >>counter intuitive (to me), and must be for a reason. Anyone know what
> > >>that reason is?
> >
> > > The owner didn't read the flight manual.
> >
> > I know the owner (LS4-b) and he did read the manual. The manual does not
> > mention why.
> >
> > Tony V. LS6-b
> >
>
>

[tango4]

"Steve" > wrote in message
om...
> Mosquito, Libelle and Kestrel all go Forked wing first. I am
> begnining to think it may be a wing stability issue. Wider is Better
> as far as spar stub on fuselage goes.
>

I doubt it Steve. Once the drag pins are located the wing is stable.

Hell, another 5 1/2 months of this before the annual trip to Spain!

Still this thread is better than the wax one!

Ian

[Martin Gregorie]

On 6 Oct 2003 18:41:55 -0700, (Michael Pitoniak)
wrote:

(JJ Sinclair) wrote in message >...
>> > I have seen many ship's assembly procedures that dictate the "non"
>> >forked spar be inserted first, then the forked spar. This seems
>> >counter intuitive (to me), and must be for a reason. Anyone know what
>> >that reason is?
>> >
>>
>> The owner didn't read the flight manual.
>> :>)
>> JJ Sinclair
>
>JJ
>
> I am "the" owner of a LS4b, and was refering to my assembly manual
>from LS. Over lunch today with a friend it was mentioned that the
>Pilatus B4 assembly procedure is documented similarly, as is the LS3 i
>believe.
>
> Anyone with an informed response?
>
Whoever said that about the B4 was well off the beam. I don't own one,
but I *have* helped rig one a few times. It has no stub spars. Being
an all-metal glider it just has three pick-up points on each wing.
It's a real bear to rig because the wing pick-ups are a very close fit
between the mating flanges on the fuselage and in addition you must
keep the wing aligned at all times or you bend the lower root fairing.

As to forked spars, you always put the right wing on a Pegase first
and take it off last: that's the forked spar. In any case the forked
spar will guide the single one into place when its put in first.

However, there can be other considerations: we tend to put the right
wing on the club Discus WL first and take it off last. That's because,
with the glider on the tail ramp dolly the canopy must be closed to
move that wing into or out of the trailer, so right wing first
on/last off is simply more convenient.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Graeme Cant]

Steve wrote:

> Mosquito, Libelle and Kestrel all go Forked wing first. I am
> begnining to think it may be a wing stability issue. Wider is Better
> as far as spar stub on fuselage goes.


Schleicher also. I guess you could be right about stability but I
always saw it a simply a matter of locating the spar correctly as it
slid in. The fork fills the fuselage cavity, the knife doesn't.

GC

[Andrew Warbrick]

I think this is an idiosyncracy of LS glider manuals.
Every LS owner I know (bar one) disobeys the manual
and rigs the forked wing first (including me). I have,
however, tried it the other way and it makes no noticeable
difference.

At 13:00 07 October 2003, Graeme Cant wrote:
>Steve wrote:
>
>> Mosquito, Libelle and Kestrel all go Forked wing first.
>> I am
>> begnining to think it may be a wing stability issue.
>> Wider is Better
>> as far as spar stub on fuselage goes.
>
>
>Schleicher also. I guess you could be right about
>stability but I
>always saw it a simply a matter of locating the spar
>correctly as it
>slid in. The fork fills the fuselage cavity, the knife
>doesn't.
>
>GC
>
>

[Steve]

"tango4" > wrote
> I doubt it Steve. Once the drag pins are located the wing is stable.
>
> Ian

Agreed 100%. Now, for all of us that fly gliders that have pins
sticking out of the spar stub(s) (Glasflugel, Schempp-Hirth, Applebay,
DG?), how many of you have not once accidentally pushed one wing out
with the other while trying to assemble? Not me. That is how I found
out. Put the more stable wing in first and take it off last is my
motto.

As for Schempp Hirth and those side hinged canopies... The L-33
Blanik is that way, too. But with it, you have to put the left wing
on first if you want to use the retainer pin to hold the first wing in
when yo put the second wing on. And if the fuselage is not rolled
back clear of the trailer, the pilot gets to put the right wing on,
run around the front of the trailer, and over to the left side. Then,
open the canopy and use the assembly tool to pull the wing the rest of
the way home. At least, that is how it works with the one at our
field.

Steve "No Wax" Leonard

[Nyal Williams]

At 02:24 08 October 2003, Steve wrote:
>'tango4' wrote
>> I doubt it Steve. Once the drag pins are located the
>>wing is stable.
>>
>> Ian
>
>Agreed 100%. Now, for all of us that fly gliders that
>have pins
>sticking out of the spar stub(s) (Glasflugel, Schempp-Hirth,
>Applebay,
>DG?), how many of you have not once accidentally pushed
>one wing out
>with the other while trying to assemble? Not me.
>That is how I found
>out. Put the more stable wing in first and take it
>off last is my
>motto.
>
>As for Schempp Hirth and those side hinged canopies...
> The L-33
>Blanik is that way, too. But with it, you have to
>put the left wing
>on first if you want to use the retainer pin to hold
>the first wing in
>when yo put the second wing on. And if the fuselage
>is not rolled
>back clear of the trailer, the pilot gets to put the
>right wing on,
>run around the front of the trailer, and over to the
>left side. Then,
>open the canopy and use the assembly tool to pull the
>wing the rest of
>the way home. At least, that is how it works with
>the one at our
>field.
>
>Steve 'No Wax' Leonard

The foolproof answer is this. If you hang toilet paper
so that it pulls down in front, put the left wing in
first; if you hang it so that it pulls down behind,
put the right wing in first -- or vice versa. Have
any of you queried the manufacturer? Some toilet paper
hangers have done so!

>