A couple of questions

[Bill Gribble]

According to my wife and my work schedule, I'm now grounded until
Sunday, which has me climbing up the walls ...

That aside, this could be a daft newbie question ...

Does anybody know of any decent sites (or, at a push, books) that
illustrate the various different types/makes/models of glider that are
out there? Anything to help me recognise what I'm looking at, or picture
what people are discussing?

For that matter, can anybody recommend a good book for an absolute
rookie pilot? I appreciate that reading about it isn't going to replace
time in the cockpit, but it might keep me sane during the long days that
fall between weekends!


--
Bill Gribble

[Martin Gregorie]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:57:17 +0100, Bill Gribble
> wrote:

>For that matter, can anybody recommend a good book for an absolute
>rookie pilot? I appreciate that reading about it isn't going to replace
>time in the cockpit, but it might keep me sane during the long days that
>fall between weekends!

Derek Piggott: Beginning Gliding

and then, when you're near solo standard you probably need

Derek Piggott: Gliding
Tom Bradbury: Meteorology for Pilots

All these are available from the BGA and can be ordered online.
Finally, a recommendation for a weather website:

www.weatherjack.co.uk

The 'gliding' page is now in standby mode for the winter, but there's
lots of useful and interesting links on Jack's 'weather' page.



--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Mike Borgelt]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:57:17 +0100, Bill Gribble
> wrote:

>According to my wife and my work schedule, I'm now grounded until
>Sunday, which has me climbing up the walls ...
>
>That aside, this could be a daft newbie question ...
>
>Does anybody know of any decent sites (or, at a push, books) that
>illustrate the various different types/makes/models of glider that are
>out there? Anything to help me recognise what I'm looking at, or picture
>what people are discussing?
>
>For that matter, can anybody recommend a good book for an absolute
>rookie pilot? I appreciate that reading about it isn't going to replace
>time in the cockpit, but it might keep me sane during the long days that
>fall between weekends!


Try Helmut Reichmann's books. He has one for beginners and one for
cross country pilots.

Sounds like you've got it bad. Considered moving to Australia where
the weather is better?

Mike Borgelt

[Bruce Greeff]

My 2c worth.

The BGA Manual is excellent if you are more technically minded. Ken
Stewarts books are also excellent.

Go to https://www.gliding.co.uk/bgashop/shop.cgi?se=&op=sc&ci=1

The more you read, the more you understand - works for me at any rate. I
keep on re-reading my little collection and as my flying progresses I
learn more from them.

Just to make you jealous - look at our weather...
http://www.weathersa.co.za/glider/Cinterior//images/lf14.gif
http://www.weathersa.co.za/glider/images/-2727.gif

And I'm sitting at my desk not flying.

Bruce

[Bill Gribble]

Bruce Greeff > writes
>Just to make you jealous - look at our weather...
>http://www.weathersa.co.za/glider/Cinterior//images/lf14.gif
>http://www.weathersa.co.za/glider/images/-2727.gif
>
>And I'm sitting at my desk not flying.

Grrrr

Though, looking on the bright side, there are two advantages to our
English weather ...

First, even in the absence of soaring conditions, our club flies three
days a week through the winter as long as the weather is flyable. Being
an ex-MOD aerodrome, they have the advantage of a long runway which
means the winch gets us up to a respectable height.

It strikes me that this means that across the winter, the tendency for
the gliders to come down as soon as they've gone up means that I should
get lots of launches and lots of landings. As landing is the main thing
that currently freaks me out, it follows that it can only be a good
thing that I'll get a lot of practice at it!

Second is purely selfish. One of the three flying days is a Wednesday.
My office is about a mile from the airfield. One of the privileges of my
position means that I can steal off every once in a while if I want to,
so a Wednesday afternoon in the air isn't totally out of the question,
but as often as not the work schedule or other demands will mean that
the odds are most likely that I can't.

So, on a day like today when I'm desk-bound, the crappy weather means
that I don't have to stare out my office window in blatant jealousy,
watching the sailplanes thermalling overhead, thinking "It should be me
up there!"

Okay, so the second reason is more the justification of the desperate
than anything else. Maybe I should follow through on Mike's suggestion
and move to Oz. Can't pretend it isn't the first time I've considered it
<g>

Last thing. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice regarding my two
newbie questions. As it happens, got home last night to find that the
club's secretary had processed my membership application and my pilot's
logbook had arrived (I have a logbook! I'm almost embarrassed at how
pleased I am with that simple, trivial fact). With it came a load of
reading material, included amongst which was the BGA's Elementry Gliding
book.

So I spent the evening greedily digesting its contents. Odd thing.
Having grown up on computer games through the 80's and 90's and with a
sideline fascination with flight, I have a fairly intuitive grasp (in
theory, at least) of what the basic surface controls of an aircraft to
its attitude, what a stall entails, etc.

Aside from getting used to the weight of the stick and the effects of
motion, oh, and grappling with the co-ordination of airleons (which I
evidently cannot spell yet) and rudder, in practice the whole thing
seemed fairly simple.

As fascinating as it is to grapple with the theoretical concepts of lift
and drag when explained in terms of the pure physics (pure to an
absolute layman, at least) as in the BGA's book, I found my whole
'intuitive' grasp of the flight thing suddenly getting very muddled. And
it still feels a little woolly this morning.

Nothing that won't get rattled back into shape and perspective with more
reading and even more practice ... But it's an odd change in
perspective. I had approached the whole learning to glide thing as a
means to an end, the end obviously being solo and whatever further
opportunities getting there opened.

I'd actually forgotten the thrill and rewards that come from the
challenge of learning something so absolutely new. The only thing I can
compare it to were the first half a dozen hours of leaning to ride a
motorbike, or perhaps, before that and to a lesser extent, drive a car.
I live a fairly interesting life, so most days I have something 'new' to
grapple with. But it strikes me that in the majority of cases, the
'learning something new' is actually just the transfer and
re-application of already existing skills and knowledge. This is proving
to be quite different.

Anyway, I talk too much. For which I apologise. Put it down to the
barely contained enthusiasm of an absolute beginner. I'm sure it'll wear
off. Or at least become a little more self-contained!

--
Bill Gribble

[Ian Molesworth]

Doesn't look too impressive till you realise that they're quoting thermal
strengths in Metres per second!

Ian

[Matt Herron]

> I'd actually forgotten the thrill and rewards that come from the
> challenge of learning something so absolutely new. The only thing I can
> compare it to were the first half a dozen hours of leaning to ride a
> motorbike, or perhaps, before that and to a lesser extent, drive a car.
> I live a fairly interesting life, so most days I have something 'new' to
> grapple with. But it strikes me that in the majority of cases, the
> 'learning something new' is actually just the transfer and
> re-application of already existing skills and knowledge.

It's probably a bit more complex than you make it sound.

A few decades ago I sailed a small sailboat from New Orleans to the
West Coast of Africa with my family & spent a year meandering down the
coast. I'd never done anything like that before, and those 18 months
included some of the most intensive studying I'd ever done (including
university). When it was all over & we were hitch hiking back to the
US on a British freighter, I discovered to my great surprise that I'd
learned pretty much everything the guys on the bridge knew. That led
eventually to my becoming a bridge officer on two of the Greenpeace
anti-whaling voyages.

Now I'm about two years into soaring and the learning curve feels
about the same. Sure, the basic skills of handing a glider might
compare in some way to learning an automobile or motorcycle, but
that's only the beginning. Judging what's safe and what's dangerous &
what to do about it is a whole nother chapter (you might read "Gliding
Accidents That Almost Happened" from SSA), and then there's Xcountry
-- a whole graduate course in itself. I can't even begin to see the
end of it, and that's just fine as far as I'm concerned. Sailing got a
bit boring after I'd spent a couple of decades doing it; soaring holds
at least as many challenges, maybe a whole lot more!

[Bruce Greeff]

AHem - sorry about not being explicit on the non-imperial nature of our
weather reporting system. The thermals are pretty good at present with
cloudbase last weekend at 20,000 foot MSL (15,300"AGL)

One club member recorded a 13kt thermal in an L13, pity he had to
abandon it to let his nauseous passenger disembark...

Ian Molesworth wrote:
> Doesn't look too impressive till you realise that they're quoting thermal
> strengths in Metres per second!
>
> Ian
>
>
>

[Bruce Greeff]

Hi Bill

This is like a disease - the enthusiasm presumably does wane (for some.
But I know many who have 20 and more years of soaring behind them and
still can't keep their eyes off the clouds.

Personally, can't wait for Saturday.

[Bill Gribble]

Bruce Greeff > writes
>Personally, can't wait for Saturday.

Ha. Don't tempt me. Saturday's forecast over here looks much better than
Sunday's. Wave should still be coming in off the Welsh mountains. Makes
no difference to me, but the boyish enthusiasm of the more experienced
pilots as they haggle for an aerotow up to catch it is infectious.

However, I'm told that I'm duty bound to go into town on Saturday to buy
a guitar for my eldest son's birthday. Not the sort of thing I can
delegate to my wife, unfortunately. I've tried advancing the argument
that we should delay his birthday by a week as the weather will probably
be lousy the following weekend, but they all think I'm joking. A joke in
apparently poor taste, but even so they refuse to take the suggestion
seriously ... Which, in terms of my continuing good health and state of
marital bliss, is probably for the best.

So Sunday it is. Forecast suggests it'll be "weak thermalling
conditions". Which doesn't phase me in the slightest, as every set of
conditions is a new experience at the moment <g>

--
Bill Gribble

[Tim]

Ian Molesworth >s comments
read:

>Doesn't look too impressive till you realise that they're quoting thermal
>strengths in Metres per second!

There are words to describe Bruce but my mother doesn't know I know
them ;-)

Actually I like the "Thermal Strengths: Dangerous" bit.

Oh look it's started to rain! Don't you love England :(
--
Tim - ASW20CL "20"

[Vaughn]

"Bill Gribble" > wrote in message
.. .
> Does anybody know of any decent sites (or, at a push, books) that
> illustrate the various different types/makes/models of glider that are
> out there? Anything to help me recognise what I'm looking at, or picture
> what people are discussing?

Get thee a Sailplane Directory from the SSA. It is published every now
and then as a special issue of SOARING, but I'll bet they keep extra copies.
I think the last one was July 1997, but not that many new gliders have been
introduced since then and certainly none in my price range. I always keep
my copy handy for just what you describe.

Vaughn

[Martin Gregorie]

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:08:33 +0100, Bill Gribble
> wrote:

....snippage....

>So Sunday it is. Forecast suggests it'll be "weak thermalling
>conditions". Which doesn't phase me in the slightest, as every set of
>conditions is a new experience at the moment <g>

Any soaring you get between now and March will be a gift from the
gods. I've had my gift. I flew a club Discus last Sunday and reckon
that an unexpected treat because I figured the thermal factory had
shut down in mid-September. But - what a lovely day. Visibility from
3000 ft was about 46 miles. I could see the Wash quite clearly from
above Gransden Lodge. Lift was plentiful too. I had a couple of
thermals that put 5 kts on the averager and that was between 15:00 and
16:00. The only thing that could have improved it was if I was in the
Pegase instead.

Where do you fly? Assuming you're on a flatland airfield, if your club
makes an expedition to a ridge site during the winter you may want to
go for a few days. Talk to your instructors, of course, and go if they
think you're far enough along to benefit from a bit of ridge soaring.

I expect I'll pay my usual annual visit to Nympsfield between
Christmas and New Year.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:08:33 +0100, Bill Gribble
> > wrote:
>
> ...snippage....
>
> >So Sunday it is. Forecast suggests it'll be "weak thermalling
> >conditions". Which doesn't phase me in the slightest, as every set of
> >conditions is a new experience at the moment <g>
>
> Any soaring you get between now and March will be a gift from the
> gods. I've had my gift. I flew a club Discus last Sunday and reckon
> that an unexpected treat because I figured the thermal factory had
> shut down in mid-September. But - what a lovely day. Visibility from
> 3000 ft was about 46 miles. I could see the Wash quite clearly from
> above Gransden Lodge. Lift was plentiful too. I had a couple of
> thermals that put 5 kts on the averager and that was between 15:00 and
> 16:00. The only thing that could have improved it was if I was in the
> Pegase instead.
>
> Where do you fly? Assuming you're on a flatland airfield, if your club
> makes an expedition to a ridge site during the winter you may want to
> go for a few days. Talk to your instructors, of course, and go if they
> think you're far enough along to benefit from a bit of ridge soaring.
>
> I expect I'll pay my usual annual visit to Nympsfield between
> Christmas and New Year.
>
>
> --
> martin@ : Martin Gregorie
> gregorie : Harlow, UK
> demon :
> co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
> uk :
>
Found Lleweni Parc quite good in October when England was under frozen fog.

Frank Whiteley

[Clint]

Bruce Greeff > wrote in message >...
> AHem - sorry about not being explicit on the non-imperial nature of our
> weather reporting system. The thermals are pretty good at present with
> cloudbase last weekend at 20,000 foot MSL (15,300"AGL)
>
> One club member recorded a 13kt thermal in an L13, pity he had to
> abandon it to let his nauseous passenger disembark...
>
Last Saturday - I launched into the South African Free State sky with
the expectation of reaching 18000 ft. Oxygen on - the whole works.
Released straight into lift and thought - this is it - gold height
stuff - tentatively planned a 300km - the whole works. Promptly lost
the thermal and five minutes later was sitting in a farmer’s
field happy to be in one piece. Coupled to the incredible lift was the
most vicious sink I have ever experienced. It felt as if I had no
control of the glider as it was falling from the sky. I am just
thankful that my glider is as solid as a T61 tank and could take the
pounding of a poorly selected landing field, as I had no choice in
where I was going down. Luckily the wind/sink subsided sufficiently
that I could at least land with the ploughed channels at the last
minute. There was a thread recently on RAS about gliding not being an
adrenalin junkie sport - well the extreme lift/sink at this time of
the year in this part of the world makes one wish for a little less
adrenalin at times.

Clinton
LAK 12

[Bill Daniels]

BTW, what was your McCready STF in that sink? 200+ MPH? Like the bumper
sticker says, "Sink Happens".

Bill Daniels

"Clint" > wrote in message
m...
> Bruce Greeff > wrote in message
>...
> > AHem - sorry about not being explicit on the non-imperial nature of our
> > weather reporting system. The thermals are pretty good at present with
> > cloudbase last weekend at 20,000 foot MSL (15,300"AGL)
> >
> > One club member recorded a 13kt thermal in an L13, pity he had to
> > abandon it to let his nauseous passenger disembark...
> >
> Last Saturday - I launched into the South African Free State sky with
> the expectation of reaching 18000 ft. Oxygen on - the whole works.
> Released straight into lift and thought - this is it - gold height
> stuff - tentatively planned a 300km - the whole works. Promptly lost
> the thermal and five minutes later was sitting in a farmer’s
> field happy to be in one piece. Coupled to the incredible lift was the
> most vicious sink I have ever experienced. It felt as if I had no
> control of the glider as it was falling from the sky. I am just
> thankful that my glider is as solid as a T61 tank and could take the
> pounding of a poorly selected landing field, as I had no choice in
> where I was going down. Luckily the wind/sink subsided sufficiently
> that I could at least land with the ploughed channels at the last
> minute. There was a thread recently on RAS about gliding not being an
> adrenalin junkie sport - well the extreme lift/sink at this time of
> the year in this part of the world makes one wish for a little less
> adrenalin at times.
>
> Clinton
> LAK 12

[Bruce Greeff]

Hi Clint - sorry to hear you ended in the fields. I nearly joined you
yesterday.

I can second that - Sunday included scratching away from a different
Free State farmers field. Loads of strong thermals but some huge areas
of 4-5m/s sink.

Those don't even make a dangerous rating, but from FL105 to 1000" above
a field in a few short minutes sure is exciting enough for me. The climb
away was excruciatingly slow and sweaty. Then it started to rain, just
to add insult to injury...

No thoughts of 300 kms etc, just out for a nice flight, got home in one
piece, and did 159km but it was rough enough that I landed before 16:00.


As Bill said - sink happens, and when it's going up at 5m/s here, it's
going down just as fast somewhere nearby.

Bill Daniels wrote:

> BTW, what was your McCready STF in that sink? 200+ MPH? Like the bumper
> sticker says, "Sink Happens".
>
> Bill Daniels
>
> "Clint" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Bruce Greeff > wrote in message
>
> >...
>
>>>AHem - sorry about not being explicit on the non-imperial nature of our
>>>weather reporting system. The thermals are pretty good at present with
>>>cloudbase last weekend at 20,000 foot MSL (15,300"AGL)
>>>
>>>One club member recorded a 13kt thermal in an L13, pity he had to
>>>abandon it to let his nauseous passenger disembark...
>>>
>>
>>Last Saturday - I launched into the South African Free State sky with
>>the expectation of reaching 18000 ft. Oxygen on - the whole works.
>>Released straight into lift and thought - this is it - gold height
>>stuff - tentatively planned a 300km - the whole works. Promptly lost
>>the thermal and five minutes later was sitting in a farmer’s
>>field happy to be in one piece. Coupled to the incredible lift was the
>>most vicious sink I have ever experienced. It felt as if I had no
>>control of the glider as it was falling from the sky. I am just
>>thankful that my glider is as solid as a T61 tank and could take the
>>pounding of a poorly selected landing field, as I had no choice in
>>where I was going down. Luckily the wind/sink subsided sufficiently
>>that I could at least land with the ploughed channels at the last
>>minute. There was a thread recently on RAS about gliding not being an
>>adrenalin junkie sport - well the extreme lift/sink at this time of
>>the year in this part of the world makes one wish for a little less
>>adrenalin at times.
>>
>>Clinton
>>LAK 12
>
>

[Bill Gribble]

Martin Gregorie > writes
>Where do you fly?
>I expect I'll pay my usual annual visit to Nympsfield between Christmas
>and New Year.

Cotswold Gliding Club, Aston Down. Nympsfield is just down the road from
us. I imagine the ridge lift of the Severn Valley and the potential of
wave from the Black Mountains are probably the main reasons the CGC
flies all through the year. Which is good for me, because it means I
have all winter to get to grips with the basics of how this gliding
thing works!

With respect to the any soaring a gift from the gods thought, I think I
can appreciate that now. Week before last (the weekend that included
your own "gift from the gods" I guess) was in fact my first weekend's
lessons. The apparent ease with which we grabbed a thermal on those
couple of flights was deceptive. This Sunday, quite different. The
gliders were dropping out of the sky like stones. Though that said, I
imagine I'm going to resent the winter more next year than I will this
year, as at the moment it's all so new that just playing ground crew and
helping retrieve the gliders from the field as they land is a hell of a
buzz!

Roll on Wednesday. Tomorrow. Hell with the work schedule. This time I'm
definitely sneaking out of the office for the afternoon.

--
Bill Gribble

[Martin Gregorie]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:08:01 +0100, Bill Gribble
> wrote:

>Cotswold Gliding Club, Aston Down. Nympsfield is just down the road from
>us. I imagine the ridge lift of the Severn Valley and the potential of
>wave from the Black Mountains are probably the main reasons the CGC
>flies all through the year. Which is good for me, because it means I
>have all winter to get to grips with the basics of how this gliding
>thing works!
>
Indeed. I know there's a lot of crossover between Aston Down and
Nympsfield, so as you say there' ll always be the ridge this winter,
though approaches there can be 'interesting' in a stiff westerly.

Actually, while you're learning circuits and landings it really
doesn't matter if there's lift: a sled ride from the top of the winch
is quite good enough and you'll get more landings per day than if
you're staying up. Hence my comment in another thread about the
benefits of fixed price to solo its encouragement to fly on
sub-optimal days.

>With respect to the any soaring a gift from the gods thought, I think I
>can appreciate that now. Week before last (the weekend that included
>your own "gift from the gods" I guess) was in fact my first weekend's
>lessons. The apparent ease with which we grabbed a thermal on those
>couple of flights was deceptive. This Sunday, quite different. The
>gliders were dropping out of the sky like stones.
>
They weren't last Saturday, though! I got away off the winch for a
nice hour of flatland soaring in warm, shirtsleeve conditions. Another
gift from Hung[1], the thermal god :-)

>Though that said, I
>imagine I'm going to resent the winter more next year than I will this
>year, as at the moment it's all so new that just playing ground crew and
>helping retrieve the gliders from the field as they land is a hell of a
>buzz!
>
I aim to get out regularly throughout the winter to blow the cobwebs
away and like to fly at least once a month to keep some basic
proficiency.

[1] Hung is, strictly, the thermal deity of Free Flight model flying.
He must be propitiated with regular sacrifices of balsa and tissue
paper. If you keep him sweet he may help during a low save too.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :