Sale today on 12 Volt flexible solar panel

[Soartech]

Glue on your tail boom and never charge your battery again.
https://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_269&products_id=3082

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 6:10:24 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
> Glue on your tail boom and never charge your battery again.
> https://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_269&products_id=3082

I would not do this. The temperature that will be generated under the panel is going to be very high, potentially weakening the structure. Those who glued flexible panels on top of their RVs know what I am talking about. I have seen melted flexible panels.

[2G]

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 3:30:23 PM UTC-8, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 6:10:24 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
> > Glue on your tail boom and never charge your battery again.
> > https://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_269&products_id=3082
>
> I would not do this. The temperature that will be generated under the panel is going to be very high, potentially weakening the structure. Those who glued flexible panels on top of their RVs know what I am talking about. I have seen melted flexible panels.

This panel would be too large to put on a tail boom anyway (despite the quoted dimensions of 46x21mm!). They also imply that you can't bend this thing in an extreme way. On the other hand, the $/W is very good if you can use it in some non-aviation application.

Tom

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Soartech wrote on 11/25/2016 3:10 PM:
> Glue on your tail boom and never charge your battery again.
> https://www.solarblvd.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_269&products_id=3082
>

At 21" x 46" x 0.125", it's too big and probably too heavy. We need
smaller panels to replace the no-longer-available STrobls.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Tango Whisky]

Closest I found was www.lemo-solar.de

[krasw]

Why bother with solar panels when you can buy light weight lithium batteries with enough juice for anything you can imagine? Solar panels are from age of lead batteries.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Not exactly. I know a guy who has a radio, transponder, Butterfly vario, LX9070, S80, Flarm, V3 vario and a strobe built into the vertical fin, that can either act as a strobe or only strobe with a Flarm alert. All that stuff takes about four hours to go through one lithium battery with two factory installed solar panels topping up the battery. Good thing he has two and possibly three batteries (if he is not going to use the engine).


On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:39:58 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
> Why bother with solar panels when you can buy light weight lithium batteries with enough juice for anything you can imagine? Solar panels are from age of lead batteries.

[Tango Whisky]

Le samedi 26 novembre 2016 14:39:58 UTC+1, krasw a écritÂ*:
> Why bother with solar panels when you can buy light weight lithium batteries with enough juice for anything you can imagine? Solar panels are from age of lead batteries.

Because you might have an engine in the back, and need all that lead in the nose?

[2G]

On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:39:58 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
> Why bother with solar panels when you can buy light weight lithium batteries with enough juice for anything you can imagine? Solar panels are from age of lead batteries.

Besides effectively increasing battery capacity, they are very useful for recharging the batteries between flights. We are continuing to add electronic devices (transponders, flarm, foot warmers, etc.) while on-board battery capacity is stagnant. In some gliders, like the DG80x, battery capacity is already at a critical level (and lithiums are not an option). If I ordered a new glider I would definitely go with the solar option (assuming it is available with Strobls closing).

Tom

[[email protected]]

In some gliders, like the DG80x, battery capacity is already at a critical level (and lithiums are not an option). If I ordered a new glider I would definitely go with the solar option (assuming it is available with Strobls closing).
>
> Tom

Same problems with the DG400. If anyone has worked out an elegant solution to add separate instrument batteries, please reply privately to

Kevin no space soar AT gmail dot com

[AS]

>>> (and lithiums are not an option) <<
>
> Tom

Why might that be? Just curious ....

Uli
AS

[2G]

On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 3:47:29 PM UTC-8, AS wrote:
> >>> (and lithiums are not an option) <<
> >
> > Tom
>
> Why might that be? Just curious ....
>
> Uli
> AS

The DGs use 6 volt batteries - AFAIK there are no 6 V lithium batteries. You might be able to assemble a custom battery pack, but that isn't adviseable for safety reasons.

Tom

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 6:47:29 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> >>> (and lithiums are not an option) <<
> >
> > Tom
>
> Why might that be? Just curious ....
>
> Uli
> AS

4-6 volt batts ( 20 ampH), wired so that they supply both the engine and the avionics. Toggle switch chooses either just avionics, or both motor and avionics.

Unique wiring situation, I have studied the wiring diagram, and wiring in the plane and not figured out a safe way to wire in batteries to just the avionic side so that there would be no possibility of drawing high current also for motor start. This would fry normal avionic sized wires.

Ideally, it would be wired so you could feed the avionics from lithiums, and then have the ability to save the main batteries for motor start, but also use them as back up for avionics if the need occurred.

If anyone has come up with a good and safe solution please email me.

Kevin
92
Kevin Soar AT Gmail dot com

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Typical lithium is 3.2VPC, so, 2 cells in series should yield a working voltage within the input power range.

[bumper[_4_]]

On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:27:24 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 6:47:29 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> > >>> (and lithiums are not an option) <<
> > >
> > > Tom
> >
> > Why might that be? Just curious ....
> >
> > Uli
> > AS
>
> 4-6 volt batts ( 20 ampH), wired so that they supply both the engine and the avionics. Toggle switch chooses either just avionics, or both motor and avionics.
>
> Unique wiring situation, I have studied the wiring diagram, and wiring in the plane and not figured out a safe way to wire in batteries to just the avionic side so that there would be no possibility of drawing high current also for motor start. This would fry normal avionic sized wires.
>
> Ideally, it would be wired so you could feed the avionics from lithiums, and then have the ability to save the main batteries for motor start, but also use them as back up for avionics if the need occurred.
>
> If anyone has come up with a good and safe solution please email me.
>
> Kevin
> 92
> Kevin Soar AT Gmail dot com

Kevin,

One would think it would be doable using a diode isolator (Schottky diode for low forward loss) - insert diode ahead of the avionics buss on current wiring set up. Then simply wire the new aux battery to the buss side of the diode. No back feed from the AUX to the system.

No help for the DG, but this one works well as a replacement for the 12V 18AH in ships like the ASH26E, as it can provide enough current for the starter and is a direct replacement. http://www.batterypete.com/batteries/ctc-12-8v-19-8ah-253-44wh-lithium-battery-lfp128198/#tab-description

[AS]

On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 6:57:09 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 3:47:29 PM UTC-8, AS wrote:
> > >>> (and lithiums are not an option) <<
> > >
> > > Tom
> >
> > Why might that be? Just curious ....
> >
> > Uli
> > AS
>
> The DGs use 6 volt batteries - AFAIK there are no 6 V lithium batteries. You might be able to assemble a custom battery pack, but that isn't adviseable for safety reasons.
>
> Tom

Thanks for that explanation! I had no idea that 6V packs are still in use. I thought they died out with the 6V Beetle. ;-)
Uli
AS

[Vaughn Simon[_2_]]

On 11/26/2016 8:27 PM, wrote:
> Unique wiring situation, I have studied the wiring diagram, and wiring
> in the plane and not figured out a safe way to wire in batteries to
> just the avionic side so that there would be no possibility of drawing
> high current also for motor start. This would fry normal avionic
sized wires.
>
> Ideally, it would be wired so you could feed the avionics from lithiums,
> and then have the ability to save the main batteries for motor start,
> but also use them as back up for avionics if the need occurred.

This sounds like an application for a battery isolator. Available in
the aircraft parts department at Home Depot. ;-)

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cooper-Bussmann-70-Amp-Battery-Isolator-with-Wiring-Kit-RB-BI-70A/206793207?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-206793205-_-206793207-_-N

[Casey[_2_]]

On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:27:00 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
> On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:39:58 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
> > Why bother with solar panels when you can buy light weight lithium batteries with enough juice for anything you can imagine? Solar panels are from age of lead batteries.
>
> Besides effectively increasing battery capacity, they are very useful for recharging the batteries between flights. We are continuing to add electronic devices (transponders, flarm, foot warmers, etc.) while on-board battery capacity is stagnant. In some gliders, like the DG80x, battery capacity is already at a critical level (and lithiums are not an option). If I ordered a new glider I would definitely go with the solar option (assuming it is available with Strobls closing).
>
> Tom

Yes, maybe more electronics are added, but aren't electronics more efficient now and draw less? I don't know, but what is the power consumption of 70-80's electronics compared to today? But....

And wiring a new glider for a solar panel and especially a motorized glider is one thing, but adding to a older glider has to be almost impossible or at least for anyone that I could find locally or readily. I do not believe in redoing an older glider to modern specs of adding the flarm, and glass displays, and twin batteries, and solar panels, and ADS-B, and ballistic chutes....bla, bla, bla......My point is there is only so much that can be added or changed that effects weight and balance, performance, and being cost prohibitive....Am I correct in saying that? The old saying KISS has to come into play at some point. Instead of figuring out how to run wiring for a solar panel, I would settle for easy replacement of TE tubing in the boom. And I will just keep charging my Lion battery every 2- 3 or so flights.

Casey

[krasw]

On Saturday, 26 November 2016 17:16:00 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Not exactly. I know a guy who has a radio, transponder, Butterfly vario, LX9070, S80, Flarm, V3 vario and a strobe built into the vertical fin, that can either act as a strobe or only strobe with a Flarm alert. All that stuff takes about four hours to go through one lithium battery with two factory installed solar panels topping up the battery. Good thing he has two and possibly three batteries (if he is not going to use the engine).
>
>

Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit.

I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

So... Your glider has less instruments and current draw than the one mentioned above in this thread. I also know several pilots who do not have batteries in their glider at all, and only use a handheld radio. Point being the new LiFePo4 have not rendered solar panels obsolete.

I do like the espresso maker idea though!

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 12:03:48 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
>
> Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit.
>
> I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding.

[krasw]

On Sunday, 27 November 2016 11:05:20 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> So... Your glider has less instruments and current draw than the one mentioned above in this thread. I also know several pilots who do not have batteries in their glider at all, and only use a handheld radio. Point being the new LiFePo4 have not rendered solar panels obsolete.
>
> I do like the espresso maker idea though!
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 12:03:48 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
> >
> > Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit.
> >
> > I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding.

My point was that I have what I would call pretty full panel, and could have electricity for two or three similar panels running all at the same time, with some reserves.

But I understand the case for panels when you have ancient electrical system (building second avionics bus would be few hours job), would need to carry lead in nose or want to charge on the ground. In pretty much any other case I still maintain that panels are thing of the past. Not to mention that they pretty much ruin the esthetics of beautiful glider, but of course YMMV..

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 19:14:51 -0800, Casey wrote:

> On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:27:00 PM UTC-5, 2G wrote:
>> On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 5:39:58 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
>> > Why bother with solar panels when you can buy light weight lithium
>> > batteries with enough juice for anything you can imagine? Solar
>> > panels are from age of lead batteries.
>>
>> Besides effectively increasing battery capacity, they are very useful
>> for recharging the batteries between flights. We are continuing to add
>> electronic devices (transponders, flarm, foot warmers, etc.) while
>> on-board battery capacity is stagnant. In some gliders, like the DG80x,
>> battery capacity is already at a critical level (and lithiums are not
>> an option). If I ordered a new glider I would definitely go with the
>> solar option (assuming it is available with Strobls closing).
>>
>> Tom
>
> Yes, maybe more electronics are added, but aren't electronics more
> efficient now and draw less? I don't know, but what is the power
> consumption of 70-80's electronics compared to today? But....
>
> And wiring a new glider for a solar panel and especially a motorized
> glider is one thing, but adding to a older glider has to be almost
> impossible or at least for anyone that I could find locally or readily.
> I do not believe in redoing an older glider to modern specs of adding
> the flarm, and glass displays, and twin batteries, and solar panels, and
> ADS-B, and ballistic chutes....bla, bla, bla......My point is there is
> only so much that can be added or changed that effects weight and
> balance, performance, and being cost prohibitive....Am I correct in
> saying that? The old saying KISS has to come into play at some point.
> Instead of figuring out how to run wiring for a solar panel, I would
> settle for easy replacement of TE tubing in the boom. And I will just
> keep charging my Lion battery every 2- 3 or so flights.
>
I have an early Libelle that I've equipped with a selection of electronic
toys for its panel:

- One battery drives 2 x electric vario (SDI C4, B40), FLARM,
PDA running LK8000. This setup uses 483 mA, with the majority used
by the PDA, thought it was probably charging its internal battery
when I made the measurement.

- Second battery runs the T&B plus a ATR-500 radio. These use 170 ma
with both running. Transmitting adds 110 mA on transmit and the T&B has
a momentary 1100 mA spike when it spins up. The radio is now a KRT2.

Both batteries are 12v 7.2Ah SLA and both are connected to an EW
Microrecorder (logger) via diodes, so the higher voltage battery drives
it. Both are mounted in the original battery box, though with a new,
raised lid to clear the bigger battery bulk and to act as a mount for the
EW Microrecorder.

The W&B is fine. Everything except the T&B is running throughout a
typical flight. In fact I power everything up except the T&B just before
towing out and then leave it all on until just before tiedown or derig.
I've never got near flattening the batteries with this approach. I've
measured the power consumption of everything except the EW logger. and
this indicates that I should get something approaching 14 hours operation
from fully charged batteries in good condition.

On top of that the B.40 has a 9v backup battery that should run it for 12
hours and the PDA (a Medion S3747) claims 6-8 hours operation off a fully
charged 800 mAh battery.

So, if you're worried about your power consumption in flight, a good one-
off winter project would be to measure the power your rig uses with all
its normal equipment running.

If you also check your batteries by measuring their capacity annually,
you'll know when to replace them and if they'll handle the longest flight
you're likely to make.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

>
> One would think it would be doable using a diode isolator (Schottky diode for low forward loss) - insert diode ahead of the avionics buss on current wiring set up. Then simply wire the new aux battery to the buss side of the diode. No back feed from the AUX to the system.

Thanks, Bumper, may tackle that this winter. Problem so far is I have not been able to identify what you would think of as a traditional power buss.. Several heavy wires come off the main switch, which is over by the side wall of the cockpit. Then large wires disappear deep under the instruments and under the panel. There is just a large mess of wires that come from deep under the panel. I think I will have to pull all the instruments and radio to be able to really get into the power buss.

I have been able to identify the negative buss.

Thanks

Kevin
92

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 4:23:09 AM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
> On Sunday, 27 November 2016 11:05:20 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > So... Your glider has less instruments and current draw than the one mentioned above in this thread. I also know several pilots who do not have batteries in their glider at all, and only use a handheld radio. Point being the new LiFePo4 have not rendered solar panels obsolete.
> >
> > I do like the espresso maker idea though!
> >
> > On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 12:03:48 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
> > >
> > > Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit.
> > >
> > > I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding.
>
> My point was that I have what I would call pretty full panel, and could have electricity for two or three similar panels running all at the same time, with some reserves.
>
> But I understand the case for panels when you have ancient electrical system (building second avionics bus would be few hours job), would need to carry lead in nose or want to charge on the ground. In pretty much any other case I still maintain that panels are thing of the past. Not to mention that they pretty much ruin the esthetics of beautiful glider, but of course YMMV.

I don't think you have a full panel. I could call it a small panel. I have 20 AH battery dedicated to instruments plus 4 solar panels and all of that power will not last for an 8 hour flight to drive all I have in the cockpit.. The glider and instruments are year 2016.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Again So.... With no disrespect intended, PDA's have been obsolete since 2008, and they were not a glider instrument but a kludged fix until larger screens were economically available for purpose designed soaring instruments.. Your glider has a full panel for your needs, but is far from full by modern standards, does not have transponder, does not have AHRS for those day when the foehn gap closes, and only has one e-vario, no instantaneous wind, no strobe built into fin for anti-collision... . The glider, new in 2016, I mentioned that is well equipped was ordered with solar panels and LiFePo4 batteries and it needs the solar panels to help top up the batteries for those 8-10 hour xc flights out west. Argo, LiFePo4 batteries have not made solar panels on gliders obsolete, the original comment we have been debating.

Apollo 11 made it to the moon with less computing power than we carry in our smart phones too, but more modern craft has orders of magnitude more computing power.

The march of time remains ever constant, clocks that bind will be left to rust.

Still thinking about your idea for fresh espresso in the cockpit.

Jon


On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 1:23:09 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
>
> My point was that I have what I would call pretty full panel, and could have electricity for two or three similar panels running all at the same time, with some reserves.
>
> But I understand the case for panels when you have ancient electrical system (building second avionics bus would be few hours job), would need to carry lead in nose or want to charge on the ground. In pretty much any other case I still maintain that panels are thing of the past. Not to mention that they pretty much ruin the esthetics of beautiful glider, but of course YMMV.

[krasw]

Wow, what do you have in panel then? I'm all ears. My panel has pretty much same stuff you would find in most competition gliders, sans transponder. This comment is based on walking trough wgc grids and looking what kind of panels pilots have.

[Dan Marotta]

I would love to have espresso in the cockpit on those long, cold
high-altitude flights, but then I'd need a couple of extra gel packs... :-D

On 11/27/2016 10:07 AM, krasw wrote:
> Wow, what do you have in panel then? I'm all ears. My panel has pretty much same stuff you would find in most competition gliders, sans transponder. This comment is based on walking trough wgc grids and looking what kind of panels pilots have.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

krasw wrote on 11/27/2016 12:03 AM:
> On Saturday, 26 November 2016 17:16:00 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud
> wrote:
>> Not exactly. I know a guy who has a radio, transponder, Butterfly
>> vario, LX9070, S80, Flarm, V3 vario and a strobe built into the
>> vertical fin, that can either act as a strobe or only strobe with a
>> Flarm alert. All that stuff takes about four hours to go through
>> one lithium battery with two factory installed solar panels topping
>> up the battery. Good thing he has two and possibly three batteries
>> (if he is not going to use the engine).
>>
>>
>
> Hmmm. One could also install small generator in glider to drive set
> of christmas lights and espresso machine in cockpit.
>
> I have e-vario, flarm, radio, PDA power and flarm display with small
> 8 Ah LiFePo4. It takes 11 hrs to run dry. Other similar battery is
> waiting in reserve. I could easily install similar physical size
> LiFePos with 30-40 hrs of current. That would be a week of gliding.

I have a Butterfly vario, Flarm, radio, Mode C transponder, iGlide on
iPhone 6, all of which add up to about 1.4 amps, double your current
draw. My panel is not extravagant, not even including a backup vario. I
wish I had a solar panel(s) to extend the duration the instrument
battery, and charge it on the ground (exchanging batteries is impractical).


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"

https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[krasw]

On Monday, 28 November 2016 03:30:20 UTC+2, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> I have a Butterfly vario, Flarm, radio, Mode C transponder, iGlide on
> iPhone 6, all of which add up to about 1.4 amps, double your current
> draw. My panel is not extravagant, not even including a backup vario. I
> wish I had a solar panel(s) to extend the duration the instrument
> battery, and charge it on the ground (exchanging batteries is impractical).
>

Sounds like you have only transponder drwaing current I don't have. It has a large current draw though, especially the older ones.

Are you using LiFePos or lead batteries? Comparasion is diffult because lead batteries give their rated capacity in room temperature with very slow discharge. Try that in cold weather/higher current and you end up with much less capacity. In my experience 8 Ah Lifepo gives over twice the capacity of normal 7 Ah SLA (11 hrs vs. 5 hrs of operation in my glider)

[bumper[_4_]]

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 7:01:02 AM UTC-8, wrote:

>
> Thanks, Bumper, may tackle that this winter. Problem so far is I have not been able to identify what you would think of as a traditional power buss.
> Thanks
>
> Kevin
> 92

If you have an "avionics master switch", the switch that turns off power to all the toys, then the point to put the isolation diode is in series with the wire coming from the battery to that switch (i.e. when you turn the switch on or off, there is still power constant on one terminal - that's the one coming from the battery :c). The the new battery will wire to that terminal of the switch.

If there's no master switch and a bunch of fuses or circuit breakers, and you are blessed with turning off each instrument separately, then you'll need to locate the wire that provides power to those fuses (there may be a common wire going from one fuse to the next to provide power to each) that wire would be serving as the "buss". You'll need to locate the end that comes from the battery and insert the diode in series with that wire at the "first" fuse.

[[email protected]]

> If there's no master switch and a bunch of fuses or circuit breakers, and you are blessed with turning off each instrument separately, then you'll need to locate the wire that provides power to those fuses (there may be a common wire going from one fuse to the next to provide power to each) that wire would be serving as the "buss". You'll need to locate the end that comes from the battery and insert the diode in series with that wire at the "first" fuse.

This is much more the situation I have. No master Avionic switch, just a master battery switch. I bet exactly what you are describing is mess of wires that I have not deciphered yet. Possible there may still be a buss completely buried under all the instruments in the bottom of the bird, but what you said above is probably it. Thanks so much,

Kevin
92

[Dan Marotta]

If you don't already have something like THIS
<http://www.molex.com/molex/products/group?key=terminal_blocks_and_barrier_strips&channel=products&gclid=CjwKEAiAyO_BBRDOgM-K8MGWpmYSJACePQ9Cu65mQJFiWpHB7-x5a4XSZ6bTzoRBGPVID3DrTknrPBoCpq3w_wcB>,
get a couple and install one (or more) as your DC bus and another as
your ground bus. It will make life so much easier.

On 11/28/2016 7:50 AM, wrote:
>> If there's no master switch and a bunch of fuses or circuit breakers, and you are blessed with turning off each instrument separately, then you'll need to locate the wire that provides power to those fuses (there may be a common wire going from one fuse to the next to provide power to each) that wire would be serving as the "buss". You'll need to locate the end that comes from the battery and insert the diode in series with that wire at the "first" fuse.
> This is much more the situation I have. No master Avionic switch, just a master battery switch. I bet exactly what you are describing is mess of wires that I have not deciphered yet. Possible there may still be a buss completely buried under all the instruments in the bottom of the bird, but what you said above is probably it. Thanks so much,
>
> Kevin
> 92

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Only been able to find a small ground buss so far. There are a number of wires coming from under the floor board under your knee area and multiple wires coming up to separate breakers. One main over to the side of the cockpit that cuts power on from the 4-6 volt batteries, two under your calf, 2 under feet. I will have to pull all the instruments, radio and transposder to be able to fully explore the area where the multiple wires are coming from under the front of the instrument pod. When we restored our 1-26 I used a similar buss that you linked too.

Kevin
92

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Thinking a bit on this, they likely have 2 6VDC batteries wired in series to get 12VDC, a second set of these wired the same way and also paralleled for runtime/amp load.

Based on this, you could wire 4 Lithium cells in series to get 13VDC.

[Dan Marotta]

Sounds like time to rewire the beast.

Have you considered a 14 volt battery? Back in the 90s I started using
a battery made up of 2 ea. 4v and 1 ea. 6v gel cell batteries wired in
series. I continued using that battery configuration until a couple of
years ago when I switched to LiFePO4. I also have a 14v gel cell
charger purchased through an ad in Soaring magazine. If you want to go
that route, I'll give you the charger for the cost of shipping. Let me
know...

Dan

On 11/28/2016 9:57 AM, wrote:
> Only been able to find a small ground buss so far. There are a number of wires coming from under the floor board under your knee area and multiple wires coming up to separate breakers. One main over to the side of the cockpit that cuts power on from the 4-6 volt batteries, two under your calf, 2 under feet. I will have to pull all the instruments, radio and transposder to be able to fully explore the area where the multiple wires are coming from under the front of the instrument pod. When we restored our 1-26 I used a similar buss that you linked too.
>
> Kevin
> 92

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Thanks Dan, but I will wait. Where the batteries are place they also are an important part of W&B. They are also in fiberglass moulded areas that would not fit a different size and are smaller that the standard 7ah 12v footprint.
Would really like to keep them just for motor, and possibly back up to inst., but put a couple of K2s I have back near the spar.

It will just involve digging into the wiring more than I have already.

Kevin
92

[Soartech]

There is a huge difference in tempertures between an RV roof and a sailplane tailboom. I have had a solar panel glued on my tail boom for 2 years and it is showing no signs of melting or discoloration of the glass beneath it. Oh, and I NEVER have to remove my battery and charge it!

> I would not do this. The temperature that will be generated under the panel is going to be very high, potentially weakening the structure. Those who glued flexible panels on top of their RVs know what I am talking about. I have seen melted flexible panels.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 8:34:25 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
> There is a huge difference in tempertures between an RV roof and a sailplane tailboom. I have had a solar panel glued on my tail boom for 2 years and it is showing no signs of melting or discoloration of the glass beneath it. Oh, and I NEVER have to remove my battery and charge it!
>
> > I would not do this. The temperature that will be generated under the panel is going to be very high, potentially weakening the structure. Those who glued flexible panels on top of their RVs know what I am talking about. I have seen melted flexible panels.

The high temp is not the result of a structure under the panel but the fact that the panel itself gets very hot in the sun transferring the heat to the structure below.

[Dan Marotta]

Lots of gliders come from the factory with solar panels already attached
to their backs, including my Stemme. Why haven't the tail booms fallen
off yet?

On 11/30/2016 6:47 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 8:34:25 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
>> There is a huge difference in tempertures between an RV roof and a sailplane tailboom. I have had a solar panel glued on my tail boom for 2 years and it is showing no signs of melting or discoloration of the glass beneath it. Oh, and I NEVER have to remove my battery and charge it!
>>
>>> I would not do this. The temperature that will be generated under the panel is going to be very high, potentially weakening the structure. Those who glued flexible panels on top of their RVs know what I am talking about. I have seen melted flexible panels.
> The high temp is not the result of a structure under the panel but the fact that the panel itself gets very hot in the sun transferring the heat to the structure below.

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Aerodynamic cooling. Turbulent air absorbs heat better than laminar.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 10:47:09 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Lots of gliders come from the factory with solar panels already attached
> to their backs, including my Stemme. Why haven't the tail booms fallen
> off yet?
>
> On 11/30/2016 6:47 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 8:34:25 PM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
> >> There is a huge difference in tempertures between an RV roof and a sailplane tailboom. I have had a solar panel glued on my tail boom for 2 years and it is showing no signs of melting or discoloration of the glass beneath it. Oh, and I NEVER have to remove my battery and charge it!
> >>
> >>> I would not do this. The temperature that will be generated under the panel is going to be very high, potentially weakening the structure. Those who glued flexible panels on top of their RVs know what I am talking about.. I have seen melted flexible panels.
> > The high temp is not the result of a structure under the panel but the fact that the panel itself gets very hot in the sun transferring the heat to the structure below.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

The heat transfer properties of the panel play a role here. How much is reflected back vs. absorbed and transferred to the structure below. The type of the panel matters. Cooling while flying is great but if you have a glider out in Nevada sun all day it might be too much. Glider manufacturers know what they are doing. Buying some panel and putting it on a glider without discussing with the manufacturer might not be a great idea.