self contained streamlined strobe?

[Steve L[_2_]]

Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery powered) strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip running light?
Thanks, Steve

[Michael Opitz]

At 01:52 13 December 2016, Steve L wrote:
>Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery
powered)
>strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip
running
>light?
>Thanks, Steve
>
Steve,

Check out:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/aveoeseries.php

At $679/pair, they are not cheap. Don't know about internal batteries,
though they are used by LSA's and UL's....

RO

[SoaringXCellence]

These pull 1.65A (200MS) per strobe, and are not self-contained. There are others on the site, but none are self-contained.

The point that is the real sticker is that all the strobe (even bright LED) are going to exhaust a 9V or pair of AA in a really short time, certainly less than a typical flight, on the order of a couple hours I would guess.

A guy in our club tried a set that ran off ship mains, but they weren't really visible in the daylight.

[son_of_flubber]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 2:52:30 PM UTC+13, Steve L wrote:
> Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery powered) strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip running light?
> Thanks, Steve

I've toyed with the idea of mounting a straight_ahead and straight_ behind strobes borrowed from the bicycle market (on Experimental Airworthiness glider). Their performance is incredible for the cost. I've seen bikes flashing strobes coming at me in sunlight conditions from considerable distances so I think these would have value especially when flying under the shadow of a cloud street.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/best-bike-lights-for-road-cycling-32289/

Aveo makes some more expensive LED lights specifically for aircraft. They're not self contained. I thought the Red Barron Mini might look good on my turtledeck where wiring is pretty easy.
http://www.aveoengineering.com/redbaron-mini/

They market a wingtip light specifically for gliders http://www.aveoengineering.com/gliderburst/

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 2:40:21 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 2:52:30 PM UTC+13, Steve L wrote:
> > Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery powered) strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip running light?
> > Thanks, Steve
>
> I've toyed with the idea of mounting a straight_ahead and straight_ behind strobes borrowed from the bicycle market (on Experimental Airworthiness glider). Their performance is incredible for the cost. I've seen bikes flashing strobes coming at me in sunlight conditions from considerable distances so I think these would have value especially when flying under the shadow of a cloud street.
>
> http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/best-bike-lights-for-road-cycling-32289/
>
> Aveo makes some more expensive LED lights specifically for aircraft. They're not self contained. I thought the Red Barron Mini might look good on my turtledeck where wiring is pretty easy.
> http://www.aveoengineering.com/redbaron-mini/
>
> They market a wingtip light specifically for gliders http://www.aveoengineering.com/gliderburst/

I think that the highest threat is head-on; I've been thinking of putting these on my glider: http://www.how2soar.de/index.php/led-blitzer-und-rechenknecht ; Link's in German but I think the idea is clear (or use google translate). You can hook it to one of these: http://www.lxnav.com/accessories/flarm-acl.html that runs the strobe when there is a FLARM alert. The tail strobe on AS gliders is a great idea and should be more widely adopted, in my opinion.

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:04:30 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:
runs the strobe when there is a FLARM alert.

Does this actually strike anyone as a good idea?

-Evan

[[email protected]]

Le mardi 13 décembre 2016 14:57:00 UTC+1, Tango Eight a écritÂ*:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:04:30 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:
> runs the strobe when there is a FLARM alert.
>
> Does this actually strike anyone as a good idea?
>
> -Evan

Well, it would be a good idea in the Alps, where as good as every sailplane is Flarm-equipped. It would drastically reduce the battery drain caused by, and thus increase the acceptance of, the strobes. The risk of midair between sailplanes is much higher here than between a sailplane and another type of airplane. And the weakness of Flarm is that you still need to SEE the threat after being warned. The strobe is useful there. Of course, a permanent strobe is better still.

[Scott Williams]

On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 7:52:30 PM UTC-6, Steve L wrote:
> Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery powered) strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip running light?
> Thanks, Steve

A few years ago Tim Mara was Kind enough to include an A.C.R. hand held personal C-Strobe in an order I made. This one uses two AA batteries which would be 3 volts.
If one had the desire and some small skill in fabrication, a "small AA battery powered strobe about the size of a wing tip light" albeit not streamlined could exist. no claim made by me about brightness, duration, or electro magnetic noise.

Scott

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I believe the AS strobe retro-fittable item. Would take some work though. I have this set up with the LxNav controller on my glider and it is very bright.

http://www.lxnav.com/accessories/flarm-acl.html that runs the strobe when there is a FLARM alert. The tail strobe on AS gliders is a great idea and should be more widely adopted, in my opinion.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

It is a GREAT idea, not sure why it is not standard! A strobe faired into the leading edge of the vertical fin (no aerodynamic loses) with a controller, that lets you set to off, on, or strobe with Flarm alert. Why would tht not be a good idea. Check out the Schleicher fin strobe, it is great safety idea and in my view should be a standard item.

What would be the downside?


On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 5:57:00 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:04:30 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:
> runs the strobe when there is a FLARM alert.
>
> Does this actually strike anyone as a good idea?
>
> -Evan

[Tango Eight]

Is the motivation one of managing power consumption? Honestly, the idea of only switching on the strobe when a flarm contact is received sounds so dim to me that I hardly have the words. Outside of contest flying, far less than 5% of the traffic I see is flarm equipped... Those are the guys I am *least* concerned with bumping into. A) we're flarm equipped, B) they're the experienced guys with good lookout discipline.

I've seen the Schleicher fin mount LED strobe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMdGXX11Bs4

It looks quite amazing lit up on the ground and it's a nice clean installation. However, the rumor I hear -- though I stress I am at the end of a long grapevine -- is that it isn't bright enough to be useful except under deep cloud shadow. Perhaps still useful under cloud streets...

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8


On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 10:59:32 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> It is a GREAT idea, not sure why it is not standard! A strobe faired into the leading edge of the vertical fin (no aerodynamic loses) with a controller, that lets you set to off, on, or strobe with Flarm alert. Why would tht not be a good idea. Check out the Schleicher fin strobe, it is great safety idea and in my view should be a standard item.
>
> What would be the downside?
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 5:57:00 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:04:30 AM UTC-5, Dan Daly wrote:
> > runs the strobe when there is a FLARM alert.
> >
> > Does this actually strike anyone as a good idea?
> >
> > -Evan

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Evan, ironic that you use the word "dim" to describe a bright idea such as a strobe with no aerodynamic penalty. The strobe is very bright and can be seen much better than the typical strobes on airplanes, as it is a strip of LED lights, perhaps 12 inches long. I also, turn on the strobe when say crossing Banning Pass, a well known air carrier route. Running the cloud streets of the west it helps others with over a 250 mph closure rate see me, and I have been told that. It is a different visual cue that helps others spot a glider flashing a 12 inch or so long strobe of LED lights. With all due respect, as for so dim you do not have words, frankly that is insulting (I am surprised you do not have more social graces), short sighted, linear thought process that apparently cannot accept a new application of a proven idea. Merry Christmas


On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 8:54:50 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
> Is the motivation one of managing power consumption? Honestly, the idea of only switching on the strobe when a flarm contact is received sounds so dim to me that I hardly have the words. Outside of contest flying, far less than 5% of the traffic I see is flarm equipped... Those are the guys I am *least* concerned with bumping into. A) we're flarm equipped, B) they're the experienced guys with good lookout discipline.
>
> I've seen the Schleicher fin mount LED strobe
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMdGXX11Bs4

[John Carlyle]

I've seen an ASG-29 equipped with a fin mounted strobe in the air several times over eastern and central PA. Evan is correct, the strobe isn't very bright. Flarm alerts me about the glider, and I see it well before I see the strobe.

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 11:54:50 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> I've seen the Schleicher fin mount LED strobe
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMdGXX11Bs4
>
> It looks quite amazing lit up on the ground and it's a nice clean installation. However, the rumor I hear -- though I stress I am at the end of a long grapevine -- is that it isn't bright enough to be useful except under deep cloud shadow. Perhaps still useful under cloud streets...
>
> best,
> Evan Ludeman / T8

[Tony[_5_]]

Feedback I got in Uvalde was that the strobe on the vertical of the Silent 2 Electro was very easy to see and appreciated. The nice thing about having the giant batteries for the FES is that power consumption isn't much of a concern.

[Tango Eight]

Slow down, read it again.

It's the flarm dependent bit I'm stuck on. It seems to me that making the action of the strobe dependent upon flarm defeats 90+% of the potential utility of the strobe. Why not leave it on? That's all. Bad pun intended, of course.

best,
Evan






On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:49:30 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Evan, ironic that you use the word "dim" to describe a bright idea such as a strobe with no aerodynamic penalty. The strobe is very bright and can be seen much better than the typical strobes on airplanes, as it is a strip of LED lights, perhaps 12 inches long. I also, turn on the strobe when say crossing Banning Pass, a well known air carrier route. Running the cloud streets of the west it helps others with over a 250 mph closure rate see me, and I have been told that. It is a different visual cue that helps others spot a glider flashing a 12 inch or so long strobe of LED lights. With all due respect, as for so dim you do not have words, frankly that is insulting (I am surprised you do not have more social graces), short sighted, linear thought process that apparently cannot accept a new application of a proven idea. Merry Christmas
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 8:54:50 AM UTC-8, Tango Eight wrote:
> > Is the motivation one of managing power consumption? Honestly, the idea of only switching on the strobe when a flarm contact is received sounds so dim to me that I hardly have the words. Outside of contest flying, far less than 5% of the traffic I see is flarm equipped... Those are the guys I am *least* concerned with bumping into. A) we're flarm equipped, B) they're the experienced guys with good lookout discipline.
> >
> > I've seen the Schleicher fin mount LED strobe
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMdGXX11Bs4

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 9:31:09 AM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 7:52:30 PM UTC-6, Steve L wrote:
> > Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery powered) strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip running light?
> > Thanks, Steve
>
> A few years ago Tim Mara was Kind enough to include an A.C.R. hand held personal C-Strobe in an order I made. This one uses two AA batteries which would be 3 volts.
> If one had the desire and some small skill in fabrication, a "small AA battery powered strobe about the size of a wing tip light" albeit not streamlined could exist. no claim made by me about brightness, duration, or electro magnetic noise.
>
> Scott

Hi Scott,
Not sure what a A.C.R. hand held personal C-Stobe is?
Best

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 1:40:21 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 2:52:30 PM UTC+13, Steve L wrote:
> > Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery powered) strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip running light?
> > Thanks, Steve
>
> I've toyed with the idea of mounting a straight_ahead and straight_ behind strobes borrowed from the bicycle market (on Experimental Airworthiness glider). Their performance is incredible for the cost. I've seen bikes flashing strobes coming at me in sunlight conditions from considerable distances so I think these would have value especially when flying under the shadow of a cloud street.
>
> http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/best-bike-lights-for-road-cycling-32289/
>
> Aveo makes some more expensive LED lights specifically for aircraft. They're not self contained. I thought the Red Barron Mini might look good on my turtledeck where wiring is pretty easy.
> http://www.aveoengineering.com/redbaron-mini/
>
> They market a wingtip light specifically for gliders http://www.aveoengineering.com/gliderburst/

I fly Experimental so the bike light idea appeals to me along with the fact there is no wiring and the price is nice too. Any recommendations on which is the best and which one has the strobe effect?
Best, Steve

[Scott Williams]

Is this the Steve L, famous Wichita glider pilot/collector?

[Scott Williams]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 3:17:25 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> Is this the Steve L, famous Wichita glider pilot/collector?

Steve L, google acr c-strobe, $25 or so

[firsys]

On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 8:52:30 PM UTC-5, Steve L wrote:
> Is there a small streamlined self contained ( 9 volt or AA battery powered) strobe out there on the market that is about the size of a wingtip running light?
> Thanks, Steve

If the strobe flashes for 10 mSec once a sec, this is only
0.08 AHr, trivial for 10 AHr bat.

However, I can find no info on the human eye response for
a. minimum flash duration needed
b. maximum at which no further increase improves visibility.

Has anyone found a white LED strip for strobe operation?

JMF

[bumper[_4_]]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:36:49 PM UTC-8, Steve L wrote:

>
> I fly Experimental so the bike light idea appeals to me along with the fact there is no wiring and the price is nice too. Any recommendations on which is the best and which one has the strobe effect?
> Best, Steve

Steve,

I ride road bicycle at night through the summer to avoid UV, so have Fenix bike headlight and strobe taillight as well. The problem I see for glider use is the relatively narrow beam angle. On a roadway, it looks bright to other traffic and the narrow main beam is good. Move off to the side, not so much.

I have AeroLed landing and taxi LED lights on my Husky. Two on each wing for wig-wag operation. Some guys put two landing lights each side for even better landing off-field visibility. I run all four in flight. The taxi lights have a broader less intense light than do the landing lights, they are both the same wattage 36 watts each IIRC. Standing off to the side of the Husky checking how the light look, the taxi lights are MUCH more visible than the landing lights - walk more to the front of the plane and the landing lights are brighter of course.

Schleicher sells leading edge LEDs for the vertical stab as an option. It's done nicely. Only thing I don't like about it is you can't just unscrew it to replace should it become damaged.

I have Aeroled strobes on the Husky as well. Much more efficient than Whelan power supply and Xenon tubes, but those LED strobes would suck a 9 volt dry in no time. If you had to go with batteries, I'd be looking at a couple of rechargeable Lion 18650's or so - they usually don't go poof - - hopefully.

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 3:29:35 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 3:17:25 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> > Is this the Steve L, famous Wichita glider pilot/collector?
>
> Steve L, google acr c-strobe, $25 or so

Hi Scott-
This is semi-famous (HA!) glider pilot Steve Loudon from south central Nebraska who flies a Test Atas 10M...

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 4:40:59 PM UTC-6, bumper wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:36:49 PM UTC-8, Steve L wrote:
>
> >
> > I fly Experimental so the bike light idea appeals to me along with the fact there is no wiring and the price is nice too. Any recommendations on which is the best and which one has the strobe effect?
> > Best, Steve
>
> Steve,
>
> I ride road bicycle at night through the summer to avoid UV, so have Fenix bike headlight and strobe taillight as well. The problem I see for glider use is the relatively narrow beam angle. On a roadway, it looks bright to other traffic and the narrow main beam is good. Move off to the side, not so much.
>
> I have AeroLed landing and taxi LED lights on my Husky. Two on each wing for wig-wag operation. Some guys put two landing lights each side for even better landing off-field visibility. I run all four in flight. The taxi lights have a broader less intense light than do the landing lights, they are both the same wattage 36 watts each IIRC. Standing off to the side of the Husky checking how the light look, the taxi lights are MUCH more visible than the landing lights - walk more to the front of the plane and the landing lights are brighter of course.
>
> Schleicher sells leading edge LEDs for the vertical stab as an option. It's done nicely. Only thing I don't like about it is you can't just unscrew it to replace should it become damaged.
>
> I have Aeroled strobes on the Husky as well. Much more efficient than Whelan power supply and Xenon tubes, but those LED strobes would suck a 9 volt dry in no time. If you had to go with batteries, I'd be looking at a couple of rechargeable Lion 18650's or so - they usually don't go poof - - hopefully.

OK, all good tips... Thanks so much!

[Scott Williams]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 5:23:46 PM UTC-6, Steve L wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 3:29:35 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 3:17:25 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> > > Is this the Steve L, famous Wichita glider pilot/collector?
> >
> > Steve L, google acr c-strobe, $25 or so
>
> Hi Scott-
> This is semi-famous (HA!) glider pilot Steve Loudon from south central Nebraska who flies a Test Atas 10M...

nice to meet you. I used to live in grand Island in the '70s
Scott

[son_of_flubber]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 9:36:49 AM UTC+13, Steve L wrote:

> I fly Experimental so the bike light idea appeals to me along with the fact there is no wiring and the price is nice too. Any recommendations on which is the best and which one has the strobe effect?

Almost all bike lights will flash like a strobe. Price/performance is improving rapidly.

A lot of bright LED flashlights also have a strobe effect and some have a focusing lens to vary the beam angle. The flashlights has a small frontal area for minimal drag and some are waterproof.

http://www.besttacticalflashlights.net/best-flashlight/

The tricky bit is aiming it, being 'bright enough' and getting something that looks 'not improvised'.

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 7:24:54 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 5:23:46 PM UTC-6, Steve L wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 3:29:35 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 3:17:25 PM UTC-6, Scott Williams wrote:
> > > > Is this the Steve L, famous Wichita glider pilot/collector?
> > >
> > > Steve L, google acr c-strobe, $25 or so
> >
> > Hi Scott-
> > This is semi-famous (HA!) glider pilot Steve Loudon from south central Nebraska who flies a Test Atas 10M...
>
> nice to meet you. I used to live in grand Island in the '70s
> Scott
I'm in Lexington, most people out here are not quite sure what a glider is! I started out with a K-8 that my dad use to fly with the McCook Soaring Club that was brought to Kearney along with a K-6 and K-7 by a German who taught at Kearney State College. I've also owned a Blanik L-13 and a Scheibe Super Falke...

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 3:55:05 AM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 9:36:49 AM UTC+13, Steve L wrote:
>
> > I fly Experimental so the bike light idea appeals to me along with the fact there is no wiring and the price is nice too. Any recommendations on which is the best and which one has the strobe effect?
>
> Almost all bike lights will flash like a strobe. Price/performance is improving rapidly.
>
> A lot of bright LED flashlights also have a strobe effect and some have a focusing lens to vary the beam angle. The flashlights has a small frontal area for minimal drag and some are waterproof.
>
> http://www.besttacticalflashlights.net/best-flashlight/
> Great, I'll check out the bike shops... Thank You
> The tricky bit is aiming it, being 'bright enough' and getting something that looks 'not improvised'.

[[email protected]]

As for bike lights, I have three Cygolite Expilion lights that I use on my bikes. They kept making brighter lights and I kept buying brighter lights. My collection includes a 250 lumen, 400 lumen and 800 lumen Expilion lights.

Appears their webpage is down right now, but another webpage shows a 750 lumen light that looks identical to all three of my lights:

http://adrenalineworld.com/cygolite-expilion-750-rechargeable-headlight/

And they are all USB rechargeable.

The copy says the battery lasts for 22 hours in "daylighting" mode. I'm assuming that is the strobe setting that should be used only in the daytime by cyclists. Using strobe at night could probably incite epileptic fits with some people.

Not sure how and where one could be mounted on a glider.

But they make GREAT headlights for riding the bike at night and for giving car drivers no reason for not seeing you day or night.

Ray

[John Carlyle]

I did an experiment today. A bicycle with a strobe headlight was approaching me. After I went by him, I turned around so as to retrace my path, and I intently watched him approach me again.

At a range of 3/4 mile I could see the bike and rider clearly, but not the strobe. The strobe only became visible around 1/3 of a mile. Conditions were clear, under full sun - exactly the kind of day you'd probably be soaring.

This result duplicates my experiences with in air sightings of an ASG-29 with a purpose designed fin strobe, where I could see the glider well before I could see the strobe.

I don't understand what value there might be in mounting a bike strobe on a glider...

-John, Q3

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 12:42:38 PM UTC-5, John Carlyle wrote:
> I did an experiment today. A bicycle with a strobe headlight was approaching me. After I went by him, I turned around so as to retrace my path, and I intently watched him approach me again.
>
> At a range of 3/4 mile I could see the bike and rider clearly, but not the strobe. The strobe only became visible around 1/3 of a mile. Conditions were clear, under full sun - exactly the kind of day you'd probably be soaring.
>
> This result duplicates my experiences with in air sightings of an ASG-29 with a purpose designed fin strobe, where I could see the glider well before I could see the strobe.
>
> I don't understand what value there might be in mounting a bike strobe on a glider...
>
> -John, Q3

On a number of occasions the strobe on QV's '29 caught my eye before the glider.
This was always on somewhat poor visibility days as one would expect.
UH

[son_of_flubber]

On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 6:42:38 AM UTC+13, John Carlyle wrote:

> I don't understand what value there might be in mounting a bike strobe on a glider...

I'm not at the point of claiming a benefit for bike lights on gliders. But I've observed how I react to strobes on planes. I don't see the plane unless I point a narrow cone of acute vision right at it. The strobe gets my attention in a wider cone of vision, and when my eye sees the flash, my eye shifts my visual cone and I see the plane.

Scenarios where a flashing LED light might help in some instances:

1.Flying cloud street
2.Flying ridge
3.Planes landing/launching from opposite runways at uncontrolled airport.
4.For an overtaking power plane (rear facing light).

[[email protected]]

There are two basic kinds of bike lights:
1. To see.
2. To be seen.

The light from a "to see" bike light, including the strobe setting, is much brighter than the light from a "to be seen" bike light.

The "to be seen" type of lights are priced usually under US$20. These are the kinds of lights sold at K-Mart, Target, Walmart, etc.

For the USB rechargeable lights with several hundred lumen output, prices are much higher and are found at the local bike shops, and of course, on-line.

All lights are not created equal.

Ray

[Tango Eight]

The Cree XML T6 LED is used in many currently available "bright lights".

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML.pdf

About 1000 lm ea at max power. There are many bike lights available that use 2 or more of these, and they are great for seeing where you are going (about like a single car headlight), most have a flash mode for daytime. I have one that's typical of the breed.

None of these are going to be useful for blue sky collision avoidance in aviation. Bright as they are, they simply aren't bright enough.

Medium and high intensity obstruction lighting strobes give some indication of what it takes to be clearly visible on bright days at aviation-useful distance.

For instance:

http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/5.2.3/5.2.3.html

best,

Evan Ludeman / T8

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:09:10 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> The Cree XML T6 LED is used in many currently available "bright lights".
>
> http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML.pdf
>
> About 1000 lm ea at max power. There are many bike lights available that use 2 or more of these, and they are great for seeing where you are going (about like a single car headlight), most have a flash mode for daytime. I have one that's typical of the breed.
>
> None of these are going to be useful for blue sky collision avoidance in aviation. Bright as they are, they simply aren't bright enough.
>
> Medium and high intensity obstruction lighting strobes give some indication of what it takes to be clearly visible on bright days at aviation-useful distance.
>
> For instance:
>
> http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/5.2.3/5.2.3.html
>
> best,
>
> Evan Ludeman / T8

Before ordering my newest glider (delivered in 2016) I asked quite a few European pilots about usefulness of Schleicher's strobe lights. I got universal thumb down.
As a result my glider has ADS-B in and out instead as well as PowerFlarm. I might add 3M reflective tape to some surfaces to reflect sun. This is a much better solution than low intensity strobe light.
Some glider pilots in Europe use this type of reflective tape ("mirror tape"). I saw it available at one of the European gliding stores online. I need to find it again and order it before spring. DG website has an article about this solution; a summary of a study by a University in Europe, if I remember correctly. It was a good read.

[Tango Eight]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 5:31:25 PM UTC-5, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:09:10 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> > The Cree XML T6 LED is used in many currently available "bright lights"..
> >
> > http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML.pdf
> >
> > About 1000 lm ea at max power. There are many bike lights available that use 2 or more of these, and they are great for seeing where you are going (about like a single car headlight), most have a flash mode for daytime. I have one that's typical of the breed.
> >
> > None of these are going to be useful for blue sky collision avoidance in aviation. Bright as they are, they simply aren't bright enough.
> >
> > Medium and high intensity obstruction lighting strobes give some indication of what it takes to be clearly visible on bright days at aviation-useful distance.
> >
> > For instance:
> >
> > http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/5.2.3/5.2.3.html
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Evan Ludeman / T8
>
> Before ordering my newest glider (delivered in 2016) I asked quite a few European pilots about usefulness of Schleicher's strobe lights. I got universal thumb down.
> As a result my glider has ADS-B in and out instead as well as PowerFlarm. I might add 3M reflective tape to some surfaces to reflect sun. This is a much better solution than low intensity strobe light.
> Some glider pilots in Europe use this type of reflective tape ("mirror tape"). I saw it available at one of the European gliding stores online. I need to find it again and order it before spring. DG website has an article about this solution; a summary of a study by a University in Europe, if I remember correctly. It was a good read.

Mirror tape is an interesting idea -- you can get that at Uline for example..

Or just stick this on your tail bolt http://tinyurl.com/js3ye33

:-)

Evan

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 7:11:20 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 5:31:25 PM UTC-5, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:09:10 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> > > The Cree XML T6 LED is used in many currently available "bright lights".
> > >
> > > http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML.pdf
> > >
> > > About 1000 lm ea at max power. There are many bike lights available that use 2 or more of these, and they are great for seeing where you are going (about like a single car headlight), most have a flash mode for daytime.. I have one that's typical of the breed.
> > >
> > > None of these are going to be useful for blue sky collision avoidance in aviation. Bright as they are, they simply aren't bright enough.
> > >
> > > Medium and high intensity obstruction lighting strobes give some indication of what it takes to be clearly visible on bright days at aviation-useful distance.
> > >
> > > For instance:
> > >
> > > http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/5.2.3/5.2.3.html
> > >
> > > best,
> > >
> > > Evan Ludeman / T8
> >
> > Before ordering my newest glider (delivered in 2016) I asked quite a few European pilots about usefulness of Schleicher's strobe lights. I got universal thumb down.
> > As a result my glider has ADS-B in and out instead as well as PowerFlarm. I might add 3M reflective tape to some surfaces to reflect sun. This is a much better solution than low intensity strobe light.
> > Some glider pilots in Europe use this type of reflective tape ("mirror tape"). I saw it available at one of the European gliding stores online. I need to find it again and order it before spring. DG website has an article about this solution; a summary of a study by a University in Europe, if I remember correctly. It was a good read.
>
> Mirror tape is an interesting idea -- you can get that at Uline for example.
>
> Or just stick this on your tail bolt http://tinyurl.com/js3ye33
>
> :-)
>
> Evan

Yes, for Christmas it would work well in a hangar instead of a tree. :)

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:31:25 PM UTC-6, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:09:10 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> > The Cree XML T6 LED is used in many currently available "bright lights"..
> >
> > http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML.pdf
> >
> > About 1000 lm ea at max power. There are many bike lights available that use 2 or more of these, and they are great for seeing where you are going (about like a single car headlight), most have a flash mode for daytime. I have one that's typical of the breed.
> >
> > None of these are going to be useful for blue sky collision avoidance in aviation. Bright as they are, they simply aren't bright enough.
> >
> > Medium and high intensity obstruction lighting strobes give some indication of what it takes to be clearly visible on bright days at aviation-useful distance.
> >
> > For instance:
> >
> > http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/5.2.3/5.2.3.html
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Evan Ludeman / T8
>
> Before ordering my newest glider (delivered in 2016) I asked quite a few European pilots about usefulness of Schleicher's strobe lights. I got universal thumb down.
> As a result my glider has ADS-B in and out instead as well as PowerFlarm. I might add 3M reflective tape to some surfaces to reflect sun. This is a much better solution than low intensity strobe light.
> Some glider pilots in Europe use this type of reflective tape ("mirror tape"). I saw it available at one of the European gliding stores online. I need to find it again and order it before spring. DG website has an article about this solution; a summary of a study by a University in Europe, if I remember correctly. It was a good read.

I'm also a RC glider pilot and have used mirror tape on my models. Don't remember which RC source I got it from ,but it works great! You can see it when the plane disappears in one of those great thermals you've been searching for...

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 7:24:17 PM UTC-5, Steve L wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:31:25 PM UTC-6, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:09:10 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> > > The Cree XML T6 LED is used in many currently available "bright lights".
> > >
> > > http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML.pdf
> > >
> > > About 1000 lm ea at max power. There are many bike lights available that use 2 or more of these, and they are great for seeing where you are going (about like a single car headlight), most have a flash mode for daytime.. I have one that's typical of the breed.
> > >
> > > None of these are going to be useful for blue sky collision avoidance in aviation. Bright as they are, they simply aren't bright enough.
> > >
> > > Medium and high intensity obstruction lighting strobes give some indication of what it takes to be clearly visible on bright days at aviation-useful distance.
> > >
> > > For instance:
> > >
> > > http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/5.2.3/5.2.3.html
> > >
> > > best,
> > >
> > > Evan Ludeman / T8
> >
> > Before ordering my newest glider (delivered in 2016) I asked quite a few European pilots about usefulness of Schleicher's strobe lights. I got universal thumb down.
> > As a result my glider has ADS-B in and out instead as well as PowerFlarm. I might add 3M reflective tape to some surfaces to reflect sun. This is a much better solution than low intensity strobe light.
> > Some glider pilots in Europe use this type of reflective tape ("mirror tape"). I saw it available at one of the European gliding stores online. I need to find it again and order it before spring. DG website has an article about this solution; a summary of a study by a University in Europe, if I remember correctly. It was a good read.
>
> I'm also a RC glider pilot and have used mirror tape on my models. Don't remember which RC source I got it from ,but it works great! You can see it when the plane disappears in one of those great thermals you've been searching for...

Model covering- Trim Monokote is available in chrome and is adhesive backed and quite thin.
UH

[Dan Marotta]

https://www.amazon.com/ABN-DOT-C2-Trailer-Conspicuity-Reflective/dp/B00T9W255I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1481816855&sr=8-3&keywords=reflective+tape

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the thickness of the tape...


On 12/14/2016 3:31 PM, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:09:10 PM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
>> The Cree XML T6 LED is used in many currently available "bright lights".
>>
>> http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED-Components-and-Modules/XLamp/Data-and-Binning/XLampXML.pdf
>>
>> About 1000 lm ea at max power. There are many bike lights available that use 2 or more of these, and they are great for seeing where you are going (about like a single car headlight), most have a flash mode for daytime. I have one that's typical of the breed.
>>
>> None of these are going to be useful for blue sky collision avoidance in aviation. Bright as they are, they simply aren't bright enough.
>>
>> Medium and high intensity obstruction lighting strobes give some indication of what it takes to be clearly visible on bright days at aviation-useful distance.
>>
>> For instance:
>>
>> http://www.flightlight.com/airportlighting/5.2.3/5.2.3.html
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Evan Ludeman / T8
> Before ordering my newest glider (delivered in 2016) I asked quite a few European pilots about usefulness of Schleicher's strobe lights. I got universal thumb down.
> As a result my glider has ADS-B in and out instead as well as PowerFlarm. I might add 3M reflective tape to some surfaces to reflect sun. This is a much better solution than low intensity strobe light.
> Some glider pilots in Europe use this type of reflective tape ("mirror tape"). I saw it available at one of the European gliding stores online. I need to find it again and order it before spring. DG website has an article about this solution; a summary of a study by a University in Europe, if I remember correctly. It was a good read.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Here's another 2.1 mm thickness

https://www.amazon.com/JVCC-MPF-01-Metalized-Polyester-Mirror-Like/dp/B003ZCSJIK

Where would you put to have max effect with min aerodynamic penalty? I think I read a study that said control surfaces were effective.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:02:17 -0800, mdfadden wrote:

> Here's another 2.1 mm thickness
>
Err, it actually said 2.1 mils, not mm, for the overall thickness (carrier
+adhesive). You had to scroll down a long way to find that.

IIRC 'mil' is a USAian engineering unit (1/1000"), so 2.1 mils is
0.0021", or 0.0535 mm in SI units

> https://www.amazon.com/JVCC-MPF-01-Metalized-Polyester-Mirror-Like/dp/
B003ZCSJIK



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Yes, you are correct that a "mil" is 0.001" US. I would hate to put a 1.5mm tape on a sailplane.

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:42:53 -0800, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
wrote:

> Yes, you are correct that a "mil" is 0.001" US. I would hate to put a
> 1.5mm tape on a sailplane.

Curiosity: I wonder how Monokote Trim sheet compare for durability and
thickness? My guess is that the Monocote would be thinner and lighter,
but quite a lot more expensive:

Monocote is $3.99 for 5" x 1yd
Amazon's JVCC MPF-01 is $13.68 for 1" x 72yds


I'm sure you wanted to know that dept:
--------------------------------------
Solarfilm's Solartrim white self-adhesive film works well as cover disks
for the access holes in a Libelle rudder. Cut disks from the sheet, stick
them on. They stayed on, undamaged, for 9 years and peeled off easily the
last time I needed to take the rudder off.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, December 15, 2016 at 1:22:22 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:02:17 -0800, mdfadden wrote:
>
> > Here's another 2.1 mm thickness
> >
> Err, it actually said 2.1 mils, not mm, for the overall thickness (carrier
> +adhesive). You had to scroll down a long way to find that.
>
> IIRC 'mil' is a USAian engineering unit (1/1000"), so 2.1 mils is
> 0.0021", or 0.0535 mm in SI units
>
> > https://www.amazon.com/JVCC-MPF-01-Metalized-Polyester-Mirror-Like/dp/
> B003ZCSJIK
>
>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

Monokote UH described measures just under .002 inches including adhesive.
Available in many hobby shops or hobby mail order sources. Sheet is 5 by 36 inches.
FWIW.
UH