Winglets for SZD55

[Tom and Jane Gilbert]

Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??

Tom Gilbert

[Janusz Kesik]

I have never seen any. The wingtip shape disables use of wingtips I =
think, and also there's no need because tapering wingtip also reduces =
induced drag as the wingtip does.

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

[Tom and Jane Gilbert]

I have seen photos of two different types of winglets installed on the
SZD55. One I thought was a factory approved set (slightly kicked up) and
another set were large swept types (M&H??)
The 55 tends to drop a wing on take off and could use a bit more aileron
response at low speed. The winglets should help.

Tom

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message
...
I have never seen any. The wingtip shape disables use of wingtips I think,
and also there's no need because tapering wingtip also reduces induced drag
as the wingtip does.

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

[SNOOP]

>
>My eighteen year old son and I flew our 55 over 120 plus hours since
February, and yes occasionally the wing drops. I've watched the
current U.S. 15 Meter Champ (also a former SZD55 owner) in his Discus
A, drop a wing in the dirt one day at our home field. David just
popped out the spoilers, picked it up and off he went. Same thing in
the 55. No big deal.

It's a non- event. The 55 is a great ship, with a beautiful wing that
doesn't need winglets. There is a paper written by,I beleive it was
Peter Masak,here on Google, about the SZD55's construction, and it's
wing. I'll try to find it. In short, Peter said nothing but great
things about the weight and construction of this fine glider.

The dealer for the 55 is Windpath Corp. outside of Toronto, Canada.
They are doing a great job of supporting this ship. Look for them on
the internet!

[SNOOP]

"Tom and Jane Gilbert" > wrote in message >...
> I have seen photos of two different types of winglets installed on the
> SZD55. One I thought was a factory approved set (slightly kicked up) and
> another set were large swept types (M&H??)
> The 55 tends to drop a wing on take off and could use a bit more aileron
> response at low speed. The winglets should help.
>
> Tom
>I found it. Just go to the Google search and type in Peter Masak
SZD55, and you'll have his comments. Cheers!
> "Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message
> ...
> I have never seen any. The wingtip shape disables use of wingtips I think,
> and also there's no need because tapering wingtip also reduces induced drag
> as the wingtip does.
>
> Regards,

[Nick Gilbert]

Wing dropping can be a problem with part-water on board. If the wing is down
for long enough the water sloshes to the tip and the wing NEVER comes back
up!

Nobody is questioning the performance or the construction of the glider. It
does have a wing dropping problem that could possibly be rectified with
winglets.

Regards,

Nick.

"SNOOP" > wrote in message
om...
> >
> >My eighteen year old son and I flew our 55 over 120 plus hours since
> February, and yes occasionally the wing drops. I've watched the
> current U.S. 15 Meter Champ (also a former SZD55 owner) in his Discus
> A, drop a wing in the dirt one day at our home field. David just
> popped out the spoilers, picked it up and off he went. Same thing in
> the 55. No big deal.
>
> It's a non- event. The 55 is a great ship, with a beautiful wing that
> doesn't need winglets. There is a paper written by,I beleive it was
> Peter Masak,here on Google, about the SZD55's construction, and it's
> wing. I'll try to find it. In short, Peter said nothing but great
> things about the weight and construction of this fine glider.
>
> The dealer for the 55 is Windpath Corp. outside of Toronto, Canada.
> They are doing a great job of supporting this ship. Look for them on
> the internet!

[SNOOP]

"Nick Gilbert" > wrote in message >...
> Wing dropping can be a problem with part-water on board. If the wing is down
> for long enough the water sloshes to the tip and the wing NEVER comes back
> up!

No arguement on that point, but we have not seen it in the 55.
Various water loadings, which, actually seem to help stop the drop,
have been used. When it has dropped, it has typically popped back up
as fast as it went down, if it did drop at all. I would offer that
using the forward (chin) tost hook versus the c.g. hook helps to
alleviate the inevitable ground loop that happens to ships with c.g.
hooks when the wing goes down. Plus the 55 has quite a powerful rudder
which helps keep you tracking straight.

> Nobody is questioning the performance or the construction of the glider. It
> does have a wing dropping problem that could possibly be rectified with
> winglets.
>

Going back to my first note, the Discus whose tip hit the grass has
the biggest rabbit ears out on the tips. Didn't help. I just would
hate to see someone spend good money, and cut up that nice taperwing,
to accomplish probably nothing much. Doing a good briefing with the
wing runner, and being familiar with the ship would be whole lot less
expensive. Thanks for your thoughts.


> >
> "SNOOP" > wrote in message
> om...
> > >
> > >My eighteen year old son and I flew our 55 over 120 plus hours since
> > February, and yes occasionally the wing drops. I've watched the
> > current U.S. 15 Meter Champ (also a former SZD55 owner) in his Discus
> > A, drop a wing in the dirt one day at our home field. David just
> > popped out the spoilers, picked it up and off he went. Same thing in
> > the 55. No big deal.
> >
> > It's a non- event. The 55 is a great ship, with a beautiful wing that
> > doesn't need winglets. There is a paper written by,I beleive it was
> > Peter Masak,here on Google, about the SZD55's construction, and it's
> > wing. I'll try to find it. In short, Peter said nothing but great
> > things about the weight and construction of this fine glider.
> >
> > The dealer for the 55 is Windpath Corp. outside of Toronto, Canada.
> > They are doing a great job of supporting this ship. Look for them on
> > the internet!

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 4:29:23 PM UTC-5, Tom and Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
>
> Tom Gilbert

This is a very old thread, but I recently purchased an SZD-55 with winglets. I have been searching for others, but so far think I may be the only one.

-JJ

[Jock Proudfoot]

At 16:49 08 February 2016, wrote:
>On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 4:29:23 PM UTC-5, Tom and Jane
Gilbert wrote:
Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts...
comments?? Tom Gilbert
>This is a very old thread, but I recently purchased an SZD-55 with
>winglets. I have been searching for others, but so far think I may
be the >only one.

C-FSHO has winglets

[AS]

On Monday, February 8, 2016 at 11:49:07 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 4:29:23 PM UTC-5, Tom and Jane Gilbert wrote:
> > Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
> >
> > Tom Gilbert
>
> This is a very old thread, but I recently purchased an SZD-55 with winglets. I have been searching for others, but so far think I may be the only one.
>
> -JJ

There was a '55 on our field in Spartanburg, SC that had winglets. My son was a part owner and loved the way it flew. The group dissolved and the ship was sold to TN. Is yours '9U'
Uli
AS

[[email protected]]

As an owner of a SZD 55 I am interested in the comments of Peter Masak about winglets on the 55, but couldnt find the above mentioned results when typing Peter Masak SZD55 into google - does anyone here have a link?

Anyway, I'd also like to see pictures of a 55 with winglets, just out of pure curiousity - simply cant imagine how winglets work and look like with the very special shape of the 55 wings.

BTW - wasnt the 55 wing especially designed to work without winglets, turbulator tape etc.?

Regards,

Michail

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 13:08 11 February 2016, wrote:
>As an owner of a SZD 55 I am interested in the comments of Peter
Masak
>about winglets on the 55, but couldnt find the above mentioned
results when
>typing Peter Masak SZD55 into google - does anyone here have a
link?
>
>Anyway, I'd also like to see pictures of a 55 with winglets, just out of
>pure curiousity - simply cant imagine how winglets work and look like
with
>the very special shape of the 55 wings.
>
>BTW - wasnt the 55 wing especially designed to work without
winglets,
>turbulator tape etc.?
>
>Regards,
>
>Michail
>


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/320/18024577173_400a3a5500_b.jpg

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 13:08 11 February 2016, wrote:
>As an owner of a SZD 55 I am interested in the comments of Peter
Masak
>about winglets on the 55, but couldnt find the above mentioned
results when
>typing Peter Masak SZD55 into google - does anyone here have a
link?
>
>Anyway, I'd also like to see pictures of a 55 with winglets, just out of
>pure curiousity - simply cant imagine how winglets work and look like
with
>the very special shape of the 55 wings.
>
>BTW - wasnt the 55 wing especially designed to work without
winglets,
>turbulator tape etc.?
>
>Regards,
>
>Michail



http://wingsandwheels.com/class/uploads/31763820140614_122250.
jpg

[Luke Szczepaniak]

On 2/11/2016 8:08 AM, wrote:
> As an owner of a SZD 55 I am interested in the comments of Peter Masak about winglets on the 55, but couldnt find the above mentioned results when typing Peter Masak SZD55 into google - does anyone here have a link?
>
> Anyway, I'd also like to see pictures of a 55 with winglets, just out of pure curiousity - simply cant imagine how winglets work and look like with the very special shape of the 55 wings.
>
> BTW - wasnt the 55 wing especially designed to work without winglets, turbulator tape etc.?
>
> Regards,
>
> Michail
>

Here is the Canadian 55 with winglets

http://home.silentflight.ca/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1566&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=b0d3689c6c6d0db5e1c32020ba2c4bcd

Legend has it that these were factory prototype winglets from before SZD
went bankrupt in the 90's

Luke

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 1:29:23 PM UTC-8, Tom and Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
>
> Tom Gilbert

I have SN 39, modified with Nelson winglets which look a lot like ASW 27 winglets, and I
suspect are more effective than the LS-8 bent up tips. Compared to my recollections of another
'55 that I owned (SN 29) low speed roll control is improved-- which helps with partial
ballast take offs.

On the subject of how much water to put in, Jerzy Szemplinski once told me about the '55:

"Bill, you fill it. You always fill it!"

[Tom & Jane Gilbert]

Hi Bill. At that time (12 years ago!!) I was looking for ways to tame the
take off habits of my '55. Because of my weight (max cockpit) I had to fly
with partial ballast only. Filling it would greatly exceed max all up
weight. Because of the long skinny tanks the partial water load would move
when the wing dropped on take off... something it almost always did unless I
had a very athletic wing runner. So every take off was an adventure and
very entertaining to the onlookers. Having said that I never actually lost
it on take off. But wing down, everything in the opposite corner for an
extended period was not comfortable.

I sold my '55 a few years back. I loved it in the air and it was a rocket
at max weight. It held the Australian 300k out and return for a while at
147kph. I sold it because I considered it to be not the best glider to grow
old in. The new owner (much younger than me) loves it. I now fly a
DG-400... much more in keeping with my aging abilities!!

Best regards,

Tom Gilbert



wrote in message
...

On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 1:29:23 PM UTC-8, Tom and Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
>
> Tom Gilbert

I have SN 39, modified with Nelson winglets which look a lot like ASW 27
winglets, and I
suspect are more effective than the LS-8 bent up tips. Compared to my
recollections of another
'55 that I owned (SN 29) low speed roll control is improved-- which helps
with partial
ballast take offs.

On the subject of how much water to put in, Jerzy Szemplinski once told me
about the '55:

"Bill, you fill it. You always fill it!"

[Paul B[_2_]]

Hi Tom and Bill

I am also flying 55, and I have some 600 hours in it. I am like Tom, at max cockpit weight. I seldom fly with water and if so only partially full. With or without water I tend not to drop wings though. I take off with partial airbrake, full forward trim and stick on the front stop. I do not finesse the ailerons, they go from stop to stop. On the occasion that I have dropped the wing, as Tom said, everything in the opposite corner brings it up. It has never happened to me with water, so I cannot comment.

Interestingly I am keeping mine to get old, I can still lift the wing at the root with one hand, and I cannot do that with any other glider wing that I am familiar with.

I find the comments about flying with max all up weight intriguing, as I think that I thermal quite poorly(read fast) with water on board (all up 440 kg). Not sure if it is me or the glider.

I would appreciate any comments on the above.

Thanks

Paul

On Monday, 15 February 2016 06:47:54 UTC+10, Tom & Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Hi Bill. At that time (12 years ago!!) I was looking for ways to tame the
> take off habits of my '55. Because of my weight (max cockpit) I had to fly
> with partial ballast only. Filling it would greatly exceed max all up
> weight. Because of the long skinny tanks the partial water load would move
> when the wing dropped on take off... something it almost always did unless I
> had a very athletic wing runner. So every take off was an adventure and
> very entertaining to the onlookers. Having said that I never actually lost
> it on take off. But wing down, everything in the opposite corner for an
> extended period was not comfortable.
>
> I sold my '55 a few years back. I loved it in the air and it was a rocket
> at max weight. It held the Australian 300k out and return for a while at
> 147kph. I sold it because I considered it to be not the best glider to grow
> old in. The new owner (much younger than me) loves it. I now fly a
> DG-400... much more in keeping with my aging abilities!!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tom Gilbert
>
>
>
> wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 1:29:23 PM UTC-8, Tom and Jane Gilbert wrote:
> > Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
> >
> > Tom Gilbert
>
> I have SN 39, modified with Nelson winglets which look a lot like ASW 27
> winglets, and I
> suspect are more effective than the LS-8 bent up tips. Compared to my
> recollections of another
> '55 that I owned (SN 29) low speed roll control is improved-- which helps
> with partial
> ballast take offs.
>
> On the subject of how much water to put in, Jerzy Szemplinski once told me
> about the '55:
>
> "Bill, you fill it. You always fill it!"

[Tom & Jane Gilbert]

Your take off technique sounds pretty standard Paul. At max weight (135
liters of water in my case) a wing drop can be an issue. The '55 sits tail
down with a large angle of attack. The ailerons are not very effective
until you get the tail up and reduce that angle. If you have a cross wind
or quartering tail wind (the worst!!) you need to keep the tail wheel on the
ground for the early ground roll. So it's a fine balance. I have never
been able to fly it with full tanks so I can't comment on it's behaviour in
this case.

I take your point about the wing weight. A friend of mine bought a '55 for
that reason so he and his wife (small lady) could rig and de-rig without
assistance. I had a 201b Libelle for many years and describe the '55 as a
Libelle on steroids!

All gliders need to be flown faster in thermals when carrying water ballast.
From memory the '55 liked another 5 to 8 knots or so. But it handled the
weight well and never caused me a problem in that regard.

Tom



"Paul B" wrote in message
...

Hi Tom and Bill

I am also flying 55, and I have some 600 hours in it. I am like Tom, at max
cockpit weight. I seldom fly with water and if so only partially full. With
or without water I tend not to drop wings though. I take off with partial
airbrake, full forward trim and stick on the front stop. I do not finesse
the ailerons, they go from stop to stop. On the occasion that I have dropped
the wing, as Tom said, everything in the opposite corner brings it up. It
has never happened to me with water, so I cannot comment.

Interestingly I am keeping mine to get old, I can still lift the wing at the
root with one hand, and I cannot do that with any other glider wing that I
am familiar with.

I find the comments about flying with max all up weight intriguing, as I
think that I thermal quite poorly(read fast) with water on board (all up 440
kg). Not sure if it is me or the glider.

I would appreciate any comments on the above.

Thanks

Paul

On Monday, 15 February 2016 06:47:54 UTC+10, Tom & Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Hi Bill. At that time (12 years ago!!) I was looking for ways to tame the
> take off habits of my '55. Because of my weight (max cockpit) I had to
> fly
> with partial ballast only. Filling it would greatly exceed max all up
> weight. Because of the long skinny tanks the partial water load would
> move
> when the wing dropped on take off... something it almost always did unless
> I
> had a very athletic wing runner. So every take off was an adventure and
> very entertaining to the onlookers. Having said that I never actually
> lost
> it on take off. But wing down, everything in the opposite corner for an
> extended period was not comfortable.
>
> I sold my '55 a few years back. I loved it in the air and it was a rocket
> at max weight. It held the Australian 300k out and return for a while at
> 147kph. I sold it because I considered it to be not the best glider to
> grow
> old in. The new owner (much younger than me) loves it. I now fly a
> DG-400... much more in keeping with my aging abilities!!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tom Gilbert
>
>
>
> wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 1:29:23 PM UTC-8, Tom and Jane Gilbert
> wrote:
> > Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
> >
> > Tom Gilbert
>
> I have SN 39, modified with Nelson winglets which look a lot like ASW 27
> winglets, and I
> suspect are more effective than the LS-8 bent up tips. Compared to my
> recollections of another
> '55 that I owned (SN 29) low speed roll control is improved-- which helps
> with partial
> ballast take offs.
>
> On the subject of how much water to put in, Jerzy Szemplinski once told me
> about the '55:
>
> "Bill, you fill it. You always fill it!"

[Paul B[_2_]]

Thanks Tom

Where did you put your CofG, mine is at 75%. Also what thermalling speed you used when empty(if ever :)).


Cheers

Paul

[Tom & Jane Gilbert]

Probably about the same but I don't remember actually calculating that. I
installed a brass tail wheel (great mod) and always put an extra litre in
the tail tank when ballasted.

Empty thermalling 48 to 50 knots... down to 45 in very smooth thermals.

Tom


"Paul B" wrote in message
...

Thanks Tom

Where did you put your CofG, mine is at 75%. Also what thermalling speed you
used when empty(if ever :)).


Cheers

Paul

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, February 16, 2016 at 2:57:13 PM UTC-6, Tom & Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Probably about the same but I don't remember actually calculating that. I
> installed a brass tail wheel (great mod) and always put an extra litre in
> the tail tank when ballasted.
>
> Empty thermalling 48 to 50 knots... down to 45 in very smooth thermals.
>
> Tom
>
>
> "Paul B" wrote in message
> ...
>
> Thanks Tom
>
> Where did you put your CofG, mine is at 75%. Also what thermalling speed you
> used when empty(if ever :)).
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul

I only have a small number of hours in my ship (seeing as though I only just bought it), but I am thoroughly happy with the way it flies. Thermals great, I would say 45 is the slowest she will happily thermal... 49-50 seems to be the most effective. She keeps up very well with the LS8 in our club. I have not flown with water yet, but thus far have not had an issue with the wing-drop. Dick Johnson said that the spoiler cracking seemed to have a negligible impact, so I just drop the additional distraction and leave them closed. I have winglets that sweep back considerably, and though the wing was originally designed for use without them... I find that control effectiveness on ground roll seems to be positively impacted by the tips. Also, it seems to help with slow speed handling (plus they look good in my opinion). All-in-all I am very happy with the ship and get comparable performance with gliders costing over double.

https://goo.gl/photos/QBjDbHSH9YTupkAA8