ELT replacement advice?

[Doug B]

I'm replacing the batteries in an old ELT this March in my Discus CS. Alternately, I was thinking of installing a fully self contained ELT with GPS.

Looking for advice on what others are doing including manufacturers and models, antenna placement issues and practicality.

Thanks in advance!

[SoaringXCellence]

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 10:24:09 AM UTC-8, Doug B wrote:
> I'm replacing the batteries in an old ELT this March in my Discus CS. Alternately, I was thinking of installing a fully self contained ELT with GPS.
>
> Looking for advice on what others are doing including manufacturers and models, antenna placement issues and practicality.
>
> Thanks in advance!

The older ELTs do not communicate with the newer satellite systems (406MHz) and the older 121.5 frequency is unmonitored, except by ground stations.

Check out this link for all the details:
https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/active-pilots/safety-and-technique/operations/emergency-locator-transmitters-elts

Mike

[Vernon Fueston]

At 21:52 04 January 2017, SoaringXCellence wrote:
>On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 10:24:09 AM UTC-8, Doug B wrote:
>> I'm replacing the batteries in an old ELT this March in my Discus CS.
>Alternately, I was thinking of installing a fully self contained ELT with
>GPS.
>>
>> Looking for advice on what others are doing including manufacturers and
>models, antenna placement issues and practicality.
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>
>The older ELTs do not communicate with the newer satellite systems
(406MHz)
>and the older 121.5 frequency is unmonitored, except by ground stations.
>
>Check out this link for all the details:
>https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/active-pilots/safety-and-
technique/operations/emergency-locator-transmitters-elts
>
>Mike
>a new installation has to be 406Mhz

Vern

[George Haeh]

You might want to consider a PLB - 406 + 121.5 with GPS.

If you have to use your chute and have a PLB in your pocket, it will do
you
more good than an ELT signal from wherever the glider ends up.

I bought one of these:

http://www.mcmurdogroup.com/mcmurdo-products/mcmurdo-fastfind-
ranger/

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 10:24:09 AM UTC-8, Doug B wrote:
> Looking for advice on what others are doing including manufacturers and models,
> antenna placement issues and practicality.

In a crash, an ELT might not activate, and even if it does, the antenna might be broken or below the wreckage. Or you might end up in a ravine and out of sight of satellites.

If you use a inReach or SPOT, then, using the basic tracking, you will leave a trail of "bread crumbs" collected every 10 minutes at the vendor's website. If you crash, then the last recorded position will be within 10 minutes of the crash site. If you're lucky, the device will survive the crash and pinpoint your location.

So, IMHO, this is a better solution to the hassle of dealing with an ELT.

I prefer inReach as it confirms your position update has been received. The SPOT transmits in the blind and there's a possibility your last (few) position report was not received.

5Z

[Dan Marotta]

Not an ELT per se, but I carry a Personal Locator beacon
<https://www.rei.com/product/843146/acr-electronics-resqlink-gps-personal-locator-beacon?CAWELAID=120217890000772244&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15877485520&CATCI=pla-163136377720&cm_mmc=PLA_Google%7C404_11131%7C8431460001%7Cnone% 7C5faf6cb3-5197-4e05-8045-91a888915a15%7Cpla-163136377720&lsft=cm_mmc:PLA_Google_LIA%7C404_11131%7C843146000 1%7Cnone%7C5faf6cb3-5197-4e05-8045-91a888915a15%7Cpla-163136377720&gclid=COC_v5DyqdECFQyHaQodNwMCyA>.
It's connected to my parachute harness. It does require me to be
conscious to activate it, however.

On 1/4/2017 11:24 AM, Doug B wrote:
> I'm replacing the batteries in an old ELT this March in my Discus CS. Alternately, I was thinking of installing a fully self contained ELT with GPS.
>
> Looking for advice on what others are doing including manufacturers and models, antenna placement issues and practicality.
>
> Thanks in advance!

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

I have a Kannad Integra installed in my Discus CS. The fiberglass fuselage does not require an antenna of any sort in addition to the built in antenna in the unit. It works fine, I have tested it. It's an easy install and good insurance. Installation of the remote panel controls is a good idea, and also not particularly difficult.

I also have a SPOT attached to my parachute harness. I use it mostly for live tracking but it's a good backup.

I personally do not understand why people would choose a PLB over a properly installed ELT. Modern ELT work very well and are automatically activated. Assuming that you are gong to be conscious after a crash hard enough to set off an ELT is not valid in my opinion. If you are conscious, then great, manually set off your SPOT/InReach and your ELT as well!

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I have a real world example, Steve Fossett. His ELT was destroyed in the crash, if he had had a spot or InReach, there would have been a trace to him, or within five minutes of flight time.


On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:48:41 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> I have a Kannad Integra installed in my Discus CS. The fiberglass fuselage does not require an antenna of any sort in addition to the built in antenna in the unit. It works fine, I have tested it. It's an easy install and good insurance. Installation of the remote panel controls is a good idea, and also not particularly difficult.
>
> I also have a SPOT attached to my parachute harness. I use it mostly for live tracking but it's a good backup.
>
> I personally do not understand why people would choose a PLB over a properly installed ELT. Modern ELT work very well and are automatically activated. Assuming that you are gong to be conscious after a crash hard enough to set off an ELT is not valid in my opinion. If you are conscious, then great, manually set off your SPOT/InReach and your ELT as well!

[[email protected]]

I read some research awhile back from the NTSB, I believe, that reported less than half of the airplane crashes the transponders go off. If it wasn't mandatory I wouldn't have one in our 170B. I use a spot gen 1 attached to my parachute on the shoulder strap and looking at my traces it seldom misses a track, like once in several hundred tracks. Also Steve Fosset had two ELTs one was a wrist watch ELT that also failed.

[Dan Marotta]

....Or a PLB, since he crawled away from the crash.

On 1/4/2017 10:13 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> I have a real world example, Steve Fossett. His ELT was destroyed in the crash, if he had had a spot or InReach, there would have been a trace to him, or within five minutes of flight time.
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:48:41 PM UTC-8, wrote:
>> I have a Kannad Integra installed in my Discus CS. The fiberglass fuselage does not require an antenna of any sort in addition to the built in antenna in the unit. It works fine, I have tested it. It's an easy install and good insurance. Installation of the remote panel controls is a good idea, and also not particularly difficult.
>>
>> I also have a SPOT attached to my parachute harness. I use it mostly for live tracking but it's a good backup.
>>
>> I personally do not understand why people would choose a PLB over a properly installed ELT. Modern ELT work very well and are automatically activated. Assuming that you are gong to be conscious after a crash hard enough to set off an ELT is not valid in my opinion. If you are conscious, then great, manually set off your SPOT/InReach and your ELT as well!

--
Dan, 5J

[Duster]

Also Steve Fosset had two ELTs one was a wrist watch ELT that also failed.

I seem to recall from somewhere in the media that Steve was not wearing that particular ELT watch as quoted by his wife. Could be wrong.

[George Haeh]

XCSoar, Oudie and likely other soaring software offer methods to Bluetooth

position to an app on your phone which sends packets to a tracking website.


Cell coverage is often pretty good a few thousand feet up, even over areas

where there is no coverage on the ground.

At our club private owner flights go to Livetrack24. Position reports go
out
every 30 seconds or so.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Fossett was not wearing the ELT watch and would have had to been alive to activate it. I have seen the photos of the crash, he hit extremely hard and would have died instantly.

There was a show reconstructing the accident with CGI, does anyone know which channel produced that show? I have tried to find it and could not, seems like it was, Discovery, History, Smithsonian or similar.


On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 8:11:54 AM UTC-8, Duster wrote:
> Also Steve Fosset had two ELTs one was a wrist watch ELT that also failed.
>
> I seem to recall from somewhere in the media that Steve was not wearing that particular ELT watch as quoted by his wife. Could be wrong.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Here is another great example of why I would prefer a tracker, Spot or InReach, over an ELT, Flight MH370!!!!

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:48:41 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> I have a Kannad Integra installed in my Discus CS. The fiberglass fuselage does not require an antenna of any sort in addition to the built in antenna in the unit. It works fine, I have tested it. It's an easy install and good insurance. Installation of the remote panel controls is a good idea, and also not particularly difficult.
>
> I also have a SPOT attached to my parachute harness. I use it mostly for live tracking but it's a good backup.
>
> I personally do not understand why people would choose a PLB over a properly installed ELT. Modern ELT work very well and are automatically activated. Assuming that you are gong to be conscious after a crash hard enough to set off an ELT is not valid in my opinion. If you are conscious, then great, manually set off your SPOT/InReach and your ELT as well!

[[email protected]]

I got the PLB and thought I'd attach it to the chute somehow, but the rigger warned me about possible interference with the chute opening. E.g., what looks like a simple shoulder strap actually opens up and turns into multiple ropes that connect to different points in the opened chute. Also don't want the PLB to interfere with the seat belt. Havn't found a mounting solution yet, that would be both safe and comfortable, and secure in the sense that if I bail out the PLB would likely stay attached to the chute (or me).. Ideas?

[[email protected]]

Am Freitag, 6. Januar 2017 19:31:09 UTC+1 schrieb :
> I got the PLB and thought I'd attach it to the chute somehow, but the rigger warned me about possible interference with the chute opening. E.g., what looks like a simple shoulder strap actually opens up and turns into multiple ropes that connect to different points in the opened chute. Also don't want the PLB to interfere with the seat belt. Havn't found a mounting solution yet, that would be both safe and comfortable, and secure in the sense that if I bail out the PLB would likely stay attached to the chute (or me). Ideas?

I would keep the old ELT in the gilder and consider a PLB and/or SPOT/inReach at my parachute. If I survive they shall find me first, not the remains of the gilder.

[JS]

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 10:31:09 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> I got the PLB and thought I'd attach it to the chute somehow, but the rigger warned me about possible interference with the chute opening. E.g., what looks like a simple shoulder strap actually opens up and turns into multiple ropes that connect to different points in the opened chute. Also don't want the PLB to interfere with the seat belt. Havn't found a mounting solution yet, that would be both safe and comfortable, and secure in the sense that if I bail out the PLB would likely stay attached to the chute (or me). Ideas?

At next repack have your rigger add a hard point to the riser sleeve and build a pocket for the PLB that can be attached to it.
My rigger was happy to add this feature.
Jim

[JS]

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 1:00:07 PM UTC-8, George Haeh wrote:
> XCSoar, Oudie and likely other soaring software offer methods to Bluetooth
>
> position to an app on your phone which sends packets to a tracking website.
>
>
> Cell coverage is often pretty good a few thousand feet up, even over areas
>
> where there is no coverage on the ground.
>
> At our club private owner flights go to Livetrack24. Position reports go
> out
> every 30 seconds or so.

Watching the Benalla Worlds on Livetrack24, the update rate when working is great but cell phone coverage is pretty poor in places.
Anything you install needs to be properly placed. Carbon cockpits are not friendly to radio signals from below.
Jim

[Andrew Ainslie]

The two act in a very complementary way. It's like asking, what should I have, safety belt or airbags?

Why "or"?

[George Haeh]

While my fuselage is carbon fiber, I haven't seen significant breaks in my
LT24
tracks.

That's with my phone in my shirt pocket.

You might not get the same cell reception with a phone in a belt holster
inside carbon fiber.