L33 "tender tail"

[Dave Rolland]

I understand that there was a long thread on this subject some time
ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate it. If someone could
send me a link that would be greatly appreciated.

In any case, I'm looking for information on real incidents/accidents
that have cause damage to the tail boom on L33s. I've heard lots of
suggestions of what "may" cause damage but few "real" examples.

Two theoretical scenarios that have been mentioned are ground loops
and hard, tail first landing. If you've had experience with either of
these I'm very interested in any information you can provide,
regardless of whether or not damage was sustain. If damage was
sustained, was the boom section repaired - I don't know if this is
even possible - or replaced? If so, how expensive was the repair?

Finally, I've heard it suggested that the L33 is susceptible to ground
loops. I'm not sure if this stems from the fear of possibly damaging
the tail or something inherent in the design?

Thanks in advance,
Dave Rolland

[Joe]

(Dave Rolland) wrote:

>I understand that there was a long thread on this subject some time
>ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate it. If someone could
>send me a link that would be greatly appreciated.
>
>In any case, I'm looking for information on real incidents/accidents
>that have cause damage to the tail boom on L33s. I've heard lots of
>suggestions of what "may" cause damage but few "real" examples.
>
>Two theoretical scenarios that have been mentioned are ground loops
>and hard, tail first landing. If you've had experience with either of
>these I'm very interested in any information you can provide,
>regardless of whether or not damage was sustain. If damage was
>sustained, was the boom section repaired - I don't know if this is
>even possible - or replaced? If so, how expensive was the repair?
>
>Finally, I've heard it suggested that the L33 is susceptible to ground
>loops. I'm not sure if this stems from the fear of possibly damaging
>the tail or something inherent in the design?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Dave Rolland


I saw the aftermath of one incident that in just about any other
glider would have been a minor annoyance, but totaled the L-33.

The glider landed short of a grass runway. It initially touched down
on the road perpendicular to the field. It was a very low energy
landing. It next touched down in the shallow ditch next to the road,
its main wheel on the up slope of the ditch, its tail wheel on the
down slope of the ditch. The plane was found to have about 25 to 30
"crinkles" in the tail boom, aft of the main wings, forward of the
vertical stabilizer. The insurance company chose to total the
aircraft since it would be too expensive to repair.

[F.L. Whiteley]

<Joe> wrote in message ...
> (Dave Rolland) wrote:
>
> >I understand that there was a long thread on this subject some time
> >ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate it. If someone could
> >send me a link that would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >In any case, I'm looking for information on real incidents/accidents
> >that have cause damage to the tail boom on L33s. I've heard lots of
> >suggestions of what "may" cause damage but few "real" examples.
> >
> >Two theoretical scenarios that have been mentioned are ground loops
> >and hard, tail first landing. If you've had experience with either of
> >these I'm very interested in any information you can provide,
> >regardless of whether or not damage was sustain. If damage was
> >sustained, was the boom section repaired - I don't know if this is
> >even possible - or replaced? If so, how expensive was the repair?
> >
> >Finally, I've heard it suggested that the L33 is susceptible to ground
> >loops. I'm not sure if this stems from the fear of possibly damaging
> >the tail or something inherent in the design?
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >Dave Rolland
>
>
> I saw the aftermath of one incident that in just about any other
> glider would have been a minor annoyance, but totaled the L-33.
>
> The glider landed short of a grass runway. It initially touched down
> on the road perpendicular to the field. It was a very low energy
> landing. It next touched down in the shallow ditch next to the road,
> its main wheel on the up slope of the ditch, its tail wheel on the
> down slope of the ditch. The plane was found to have about 25 to 30
> "crinkles" in the tail boom, aft of the main wings, forward of the
> vertical stabilizer. The insurance company chose to total the
> aircraft since it would be too expensive to repair.
Saw something very similar in the UK, though it was repaired and only had a
half-dozen or so 'warps' in the upper boom. IIRC, caused by landing short
of runway edge.

Frank

[BTIZ]

I have not seen.. but have been told that the fuselage boom is a "tapered
roll".. giving it strength.. not very many internal formers to maintain it's
shape and rigidity. A crinkle in the skin weakens the boom and it will need
to be straightened and possibly "formers" added for strength.. which all
adds weight.. and if not done correctly it will not fly straight..

BT

"Dave Rolland" > wrote in message
om...
> I understand that there was a long thread on this subject some time
> ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate it. If someone could
> send me a link that would be greatly appreciated.
>
> In any case, I'm looking for information on real incidents/accidents
> that have cause damage to the tail boom on L33s. I've heard lots of
> suggestions of what "may" cause damage but few "real" examples.
>
> Two theoretical scenarios that have been mentioned are ground loops
> and hard, tail first landing. If you've had experience with either of
> these I'm very interested in any information you can provide,
> regardless of whether or not damage was sustain. If damage was
> sustained, was the boom section repaired - I don't know if this is
> even possible - or replaced? If so, how expensive was the repair?
>
> Finally, I've heard it suggested that the L33 is susceptible to ground
> loops. I'm not sure if this stems from the fear of possibly damaging
> the tail or something inherent in the design?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Dave Rolland

[mike karraker]

Caeser Creek Soaring Club had a L-33 which was totaled due to a
crinkled boom. It happened when the pilot struck the tail boom during
landing after a PIO. This was the second incident in this plane. The
first time the boom was repaired, but the second time, it was beyond
repair.
Our board of directors determined that although the L-33 is a good
ship, it was not a good club ship.


"BTIZ" > wrote in message news:<u4%lb.72565$La.64488@fed1read02>...
> I have not seen.. but have been told that the fuselage boom is a "tapered
> roll".. giving it strength.. not very many internal formers to maintain it's
> shape and rigidity. A crinkle in the skin weakens the boom and it will need
> to be straightened and possibly "formers" added for strength.. which all
> adds weight.. and if not done correctly it will not fly straight..
>
> BT
>
> "Dave Rolland" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I understand that there was a long thread on this subject some time
> > ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate it. If someone could
> > send me a link that would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > In any case, I'm looking for information on real incidents/accidents
> > that have cause damage to the tail boom on L33s. I've heard lots of
> > suggestions of what "may" cause damage but few "real" examples.
> >
> > Two theoretical scenarios that have been mentioned are ground loops
> > and hard, tail first landing. If you've had experience with either of
> > these I'm very interested in any information you can provide,
> > regardless of whether or not damage was sustain. If damage was
> > sustained, was the boom section repaired - I don't know if this is
> > even possible - or replaced? If so, how expensive was the repair?
> >
> > Finally, I've heard it suggested that the L33 is susceptible to ground
> > loops. I'm not sure if this stems from the fear of possibly damaging
> > the tail or something inherent in the design?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Dave Rolland

[Bob Johnson]

Hmm, didn't the US Air Force Academy load up with a bunch of these L-33
Solos?

BJ

mike karraker wrote:
>
> Caeser Creek Soaring Club had a L-33 which was totaled due to a
> crinkled boom. It happened when the pilot struck the tail boom during
> landing after a PIO. This was the second incident in this plane. The
> first time the boom was repaired, but the second time, it was beyond
> repair.
> Our board of directors determined that although the L-33 is a good
> ship, it was not a good club ship.
>
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message news:<u4%lb.72565$La.64488@fed1read02>...
> > I have not seen.. but have been told that the fuselage boom is a "tapered
> > roll".. giving it strength.. not very many internal formers to maintain it's
> > shape and rigidity. A crinkle in the skin weakens the boom and it will need
> > to be straightened and possibly "formers" added for strength.. which all
> > adds weight.. and if not done correctly it will not fly straight..
> >
> > BT
> >
> > "Dave Rolland" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I understand that there was a long thread on this subject some time
> > > ago. Unfortunately I haven't been able to locate it. If someone could
> > > send me a link that would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > In any case, I'm looking for information on real incidents/accidents
> > > that have cause damage to the tail boom on L33s. I've heard lots of
> > > suggestions of what "may" cause damage but few "real" examples.
> > >
> > > Two theoretical scenarios that have been mentioned are ground loops
> > > and hard, tail first landing. If you've had experience with either of
> > > these I'm very interested in any information you can provide,
> > > regardless of whether or not damage was sustain. If damage was
> > > sustained, was the boom section repaired - I don't know if this is
> > > even possible - or replaced? If so, how expensive was the repair?
> > >
> > > Finally, I've heard it suggested that the L33 is susceptible to ground
> > > loops. I'm not sure if this stems from the fear of possibly damaging
> > > the tail or something inherent in the design?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Dave Rolland

[Curtl33]

>Caeser Creek Soaring Club had a L-33 which was totaled due to a
>crinkled boom. It happened when the pilot struck the tail boom during
>landing after a PIO.

I saw the CCSC L-33 after this accident. The "crinkled" boom was a small
percentage of the damage sustained from what must have been a very hard landing
(more like a crash landing than a tail strike). The impact was so hard it
buckled the fuselage and root ribs due to the resulting flex in the wings.
This was an extremely hard impact that I doubt any glider could have survived
damage free.

Curt