The Clunk

[Marry Daniel or David Grah]

My Libelle has developed a clunk. Seems like something big moving around.
I appreciate the leads on where you looked for yours.

David Grah
Bishop

"JJ Sinclair" > wrote in message
...
> All season long, I have heard a clunking sound every thme I hit a bump.
Checked
> over everything several times and found nothing, battery secured with a
strap,
> oxygen bottle tightly secured in its cradle, push-rod guides tight against
the
> push-rods, no side play in the gear (retrasted)? I thought it might be the
main
> wheel bouncing in the wheel-well, so I glued in a piece of foam to the top
of
> the wheel-well, so that the retracted wheel would just touch it and
prevent any
> vertical movement. Still had the clunk. Normally, I would forget about it,
but
> this ship was "totaled" by the insurance company, about a year ago, and I
had a
> nagging feeling that I had missed something in the rebuilding process.
>
> Last week I lost all electrical powar, didn't have my back-up battery in,
> because it was just a "fun" flight. Wasn't much "fun" after everything
stopped
> working. Where am I, exactly? How far to that duster strip? How much
altitude
> do I need? DAMN, I'm going to be forced to do some of that "Piloting
Stuff". No
> audio. No vario, we need some altitude, right now or getting home isn't
the
> most emediate problem. Boy, I miss the audio, Can't keep looking inside or
I'll
> run into this other guy (in my thermal) Oh yeah, the B-40 has a back-up
> internal battery (thanks Mike Borgelt) Getting home, just might work.
>
> Lets see now, I'm about here, so how far to home? Should have put some of
those
> "old-fashioned" distance circles on this "old-fashioned" map. OK, at 1000
feet
> per 15 statute miles, I will need, Hmmmm, 30 miles divided by 10 = 3 times
1500
> feet = 4500 feet. No that doesn't sound right? Oh, yeah, that's 30 miles
> divided by 15 = 2, times 1000 = 2000 feet + 500 for pattern. Now what's
the
> elevation? Let's see now, that's up one page on the GPS, Oh hell, it's now
> working, remember
>
> Anyway, I made it home and found the electrical problem and the "Clunk" at
the
> same time. The clunk was the battery plug, clunking at the end of its 6
inch
> lead. All this clunking broke the wire at the solder connection to the
battery.
> I now have the plug epoxied to the battery and I'm clunk free at last,
clunk
> free at last, Thank God all mighty, I'm clunk free at last.
> JJ Sinclair

[JJ Sinclair]

All season long, I have heard a clunking sound every thme I hit a bump. Checked
over everything several times and found nothing, battery secured with a strap,
oxygen bottle tightly secured in its cradle, push-rod guides tight against the
push-rods, no side play in the gear (retrasted)? I thought it might be the main
wheel bouncing in the wheel-well, so I glued in a piece of foam to the top of
the wheel-well, so that the retracted wheel would just touch it and prevent any
vertical movement. Still had the clunk. Normally, I would forget about it, but
this ship was "totaled" by the insurance company, about a year ago, and I had a
nagging feeling that I had missed something in the rebuilding process.

Last week I lost all electrical powar, didn't have my back-up battery in,
because it was just a "fun" flight. Wasn't much "fun" after everything stopped
working. Where am I, exactly? How far to that duster strip? How much altitude
do I need? DAMN, I'm going to be forced to do some of that "Piloting Stuff". No
audio. No vario, we need some altitude, right now or getting home isn't the
most emediate problem. Boy, I miss the audio, Can't keep looking inside or I'll
run into this other guy (in my thermal) Oh yeah, the B-40 has a back-up
internal battery (thanks Mike Borgelt) Getting home, just might work.

Lets see now, I'm about here, so how far to home? Should have put some of those
"old-fashioned" distance circles on this "old-fashioned" map. OK, at 1000 feet
per 15 statute miles, I will need, Hmmmm, 30 miles divided by 10 = 3 times 1500
feet = 4500 feet. No that doesn't sound right? Oh, yeah, that's 30 miles
divided by 15 = 2, times 1000 = 2000 feet + 500 for pattern. Now what's the
elevation? Let's see now, that's up one page on the GPS, Oh hell, it's now
working, remember

Anyway, I made it home and found the electrical problem and the "Clunk" at the
same time. The clunk was the battery plug, clunking at the end of its 6 inch
lead. All this clunking broke the wire at the solder connection to the battery.
I now have the plug epoxied to the battery and I'm clunk free at last, clunk
free at last, Thank God all mighty, I'm clunk free at last.
JJ Sinclair

[Peter Seddon]

>I'm clunk free at last, clunk
> free at last, Thank God all mighty, I'm clunk free at last.
> JJ Sinclair

I fly a Pilatus B4 sounds like a coke can when you stress it a bit. I've
heared tails of people jumping out because they thought it was breaking up.
It can be quite noisy when the air gets lumps in it.

Peter S
DLA

[JJ Sinclair]

>I appreciate the leads on where you looked for yours.
>
>David Grah

Hi Dave,
Check your main wheel, bouncing in the retracted position. I found my 301
Libelle, "clunk" was that.

Nobody has jumped me for my obvious mistake in posting, The Clunk. Come on ras.
Who will be the first to jump old JJ?
JJ Sinclair

[BTIZ]

first time I flew a Libelle.. I must have been slightly yawed when I lifted
the gear.. the yaw held a gear door open...

sounded like a bowling ball rolling to the tail as that door closed..

now that is an attention getter...

and I have never been able to repeat it.. but that's the only thing I can
think of that gave that errie sound.. CG rolling Aft...

BT

"Marry Daniel or David Grah" > wrote in message
...
> My Libelle has developed a clunk. Seems like something big moving around.
> I appreciate the leads on where you looked for yours.
>
> David Grah
> Bishop
>
> "JJ Sinclair" > wrote in message
> ...
> > All season long, I have heard a clunking sound every thme I hit a bump.
> Checked
> > over everything several times and found nothing, battery secured with a
> strap,
> > oxygen bottle tightly secured in its cradle, push-rod guides tight
against
> the
> > push-rods, no side play in the gear (retrasted)? I thought it might be
the
> main
> > wheel bouncing in the wheel-well, so I glued in a piece of foam to the
top
> of
> > the wheel-well, so that the retracted wheel would just touch it and
> prevent any
> > vertical movement. Still had the clunk. Normally, I would forget about
it,
> but
> > this ship was "totaled" by the insurance company, about a year ago, and
I
> had a
> > nagging feeling that I had missed something in the rebuilding process.
> >
> > Last week I lost all electrical powar, didn't have my back-up battery
in,
> > because it was just a "fun" flight. Wasn't much "fun" after everything
> stopped
> > working. Where am I, exactly? How far to that duster strip? How much
> altitude
> > do I need? DAMN, I'm going to be forced to do some of that "Piloting
> Stuff". No
> > audio. No vario, we need some altitude, right now or getting home isn't
> the
> > most emediate problem. Boy, I miss the audio, Can't keep looking inside
or
> I'll
> > run into this other guy (in my thermal) Oh yeah, the B-40 has a back-up
> > internal battery (thanks Mike Borgelt) Getting home, just might work.
> >
> > Lets see now, I'm about here, so how far to home? Should have put some
of
> those
> > "old-fashioned" distance circles on this "old-fashioned" map. OK, at
1000
> feet
> > per 15 statute miles, I will need, Hmmmm, 30 miles divided by 10 = 3
times
> 1500
> > feet = 4500 feet. No that doesn't sound right? Oh, yeah, that's 30 miles
> > divided by 15 = 2, times 1000 = 2000 feet + 500 for pattern. Now what's
> the
> > elevation? Let's see now, that's up one page on the GPS, Oh hell, it's
now
> > working, remember
> >
> > Anyway, I made it home and found the electrical problem and the "Clunk"
at
> the
> > same time. The clunk was the battery plug, clunking at the end of its 6
> inch
> > lead. All this clunking broke the wire at the solder connection to the
> battery.
> > I now have the plug epoxied to the battery and I'm clunk free at last,
> clunk
> > free at last, Thank God all mighty, I'm clunk free at last.
> > JJ Sinclair
>
>

[Jack Glendening]

JJ, I want some of that stuff you are putting on your wings so you can
count on gliding 15sm and only losing 1000 ft

[Mike Borgelt]

On 02 Nov 2003 15:04:24 GMT, (JJ Sinclair) wrote:

>All season long, I have heard a clunking sound every thme I hit a bump. Checked
>over everything several times and found nothing, battery secured with a strap,
>oxygen bottle tightly secured in its cradle, push-rod guides tight against the
>push-rods, no side play in the gear (retrasted)? I thought it might be the main
>wheel bouncing in the wheel-well, so I glued in a piece of foam to the top of
>the wheel-well, so that the retracted wheel would just touch it and prevent any
>vertical movement. Still had the clunk. Normally, I would forget about it, but
>this ship was "totaled" by the insurance company, about a year ago, and I had a
>nagging feeling that I had missed something in the rebuilding process.
>
>Last week I lost all electrical powar, didn't have my back-up battery in,
>because it was just a "fun" flight. Wasn't much "fun" after everything stopped
>working. Where am I, exactly? How far to that duster strip? How much altitude
>do I need? DAMN, I'm going to be forced to do some of that "Piloting Stuff". No
>audio. No vario, we need some altitude, right now or getting home isn't the
>most emediate problem. Boy, I miss the audio, Can't keep looking inside or I'll
>run into this other guy (in my thermal) Oh yeah, the B-40 has a back-up
>internal battery (thanks Mike Borgelt) Getting home, just might work.
>
>Lets see now, I'm about here, so how far to home? Should have put some of those
>"old-fashioned" distance circles on this "old-fashioned" map. OK, at 1000 feet
>per 15 statute miles, I will need, Hmmmm, 30 miles divided by 10 = 3 times 1500
>feet = 4500 feet. No that doesn't sound right? Oh, yeah, that's 30 miles
>divided by 15 = 2, times 1000 = 2000 feet + 500 for pattern. Now what's the
>elevation? Let's see now, that's up one page on the GPS, Oh hell, it's now
>working, remember
>
>Anyway, I made it home and found the electrical problem and the "Clunk" at the
>same time. The clunk was the battery plug, clunking at the end of its 6 inch
>lead. All this clunking broke the wire at the solder connection to the battery.
>I now have the plug epoxied to the battery and I'm clunk free at last, clunk
>free at last, Thank God all mighty, I'm clunk free at last.
>JJ Sinclair


Reminds me a little of the Hornet at the loacal club. One day a guy
came down and said the rudder had jammed momentarily while doing mild
aerobatics.
After a bit of discussion and nothing obviously wrong we took the
rudder off and found the screw in bit of a panel mounted fuse holder
lying in the bottom of the rudder.

Glad the B40 9 volt battery saved it for you JJ.

Mike Borgelt

[JJ Sinclair]

Dr. Jack wrote
>JJ, I want some of that stuff you are putting on your wings so you can
>count on gliding 15sm and only losing 1000 ft

Right on Jack,
Just goes to show how much we rely on our airborne computers, doesn't it?
Actually, my rule for kitty gliders is 2000 feet per 15 s/m. In the ASH-25 it's
easy, 100 foot per mile :>) + or - the wind of course. Flew the Genesis again
and this time I put both batteries in. Logged 4 hours, 200 miles and got to
10K, not bad for November. It's all over now though, 26 degrees this morning
with rain predicted in the valley and snow for the Sierras.
JJ + Genesis 2 = :>)


JJ Sinclair

[Jack Glendening]

JJ Sinclair wrote:
> Dr. Jack wrote
>>JJ, I want some of that stuff you are putting on your wings so you can
>>count on gliding 15sm and only losing 1000 ft
> Right on Jack,
> Just goes to show how much we rely on our airborne computers, doesn't it?

I had just been flying my glider the day before but it's LNAV isn't
properly calibrated and always thinks I have a 10kt tailwind so I know
it's "required altitude" is optimistic and had been doing that kind of
mental calucation all day. So when I saw that you used 15 miles it
certainly caught my eye. (I use nautical miles, though, since then I
can use the latitude scale as a quick ruler, 1minute=1nm).

[Mark James Boyd]

>>
>>Anyway, I made it home and found the electrical problem and the "Clunk" at the
>>same time. The clunk was the battery plug, clunking at the end of its 6 inch
>>lead. All this clunking broke the wire at the solder connection to the battery.
>>I now have the plug epoxied to the battery and I'm clunk free at last, clunk
>>free at last, Thank God all mighty, I'm clunk free at last.

The best off the shelf connector between removable battery and
the glider I have seen is a male/female "electric lighter"
setup (y'know, like a cigarette lighter). They're easy to insert
and remove and large enough to manhandle.

After having wires bend and fray, I now tube/shrinkwrap my
electric connections so they don't get as much mechanical play up
and down.

[Bruce Hoult]

In article >,
(JJ Sinclair) wrote:

> Lets see now, I'm about here, so how far to home? Should have put
> some of those "old-fashioned" distance circles on this
> "old-fashioned" map. OK, at 1000 feet per 15 statute miles

What are you flying that has a 80+:1 glide angle? Surely you can't
count on making up that much in arbitrary air just by dolphining, even
in a 60:1 supership?

100 ft per km is really easy, so that's what I generally use. That's
33:1.

-- Bruce

[Martin Gregorie]

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:04:03 +1300, Bruce Hoult >
wrote:

>In article >,
> (JJ Sinclair) wrote:
>
>> Lets see now, I'm about here, so how far to home? Should have put
>> some of those "old-fashioned" distance circles on this
>> "old-fashioned" map. OK, at 1000 feet per 15 statute miles
>
>What are you flying that has a 80+:1 glide angle? Surely you can't
>count on making up that much in arbitrary air just by dolphining, even
>in a 60:1 supership?
>
>100 ft per km is really easy, so that's what I generally use. That's
>33:1.
>
Looks like a good, conservative figure to me. It was suggested that I
used 100ft per 6 miles as baseline when I first started taking the
club Pegasus cross country. The Peg. is fitted with an old Cambridge
Mk 4 vario and doesn't have a glide computer. 1000/6 miles is pretty
close to 100 ft/km. Now I fly with my own (removable) GPS, configured
to use metric units, so 1000ft / 10 km is a no-brainer to estimate.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[JJ Sinclair]

Mark wrote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>
>The best off the shelf connector between removable battery and
>the glider I have seen is a male/female "electric lighter"

What I really learned was to mount the rather heavy plug to the battery, so
that it didn't have any way to move around and start clunking. This makes it
easy to plug in with just one hand, which is a problem in the Genesis. The
battery is located way back in the fuselage (for CG purposes) and one must rest
ones head on the top of the fuselage while trying to get both hands way back
inside to plug in, or un-plug the thing.
All this is done while standing with a leg on each side of the fuselage and
facing forward, head resting on fuselage, both hands inside, fishing, fiddling
and cursing.
So, now I have "No Clunk" and one hand "Plug-In", Life is GOOD.


JJ Sinclair

[Wallace Berry]

In article >,
"Marry Daniel or David Grah" > wrote:

> My Libelle has developed a clunk. Seems like something big moving around.
> I appreciate the leads on where you looked for yours.
>
> David Grah
> Bishop
>


Fore and aft play in the wings will produce "clunks" on a Libelle. Check
your wing "spigots" (the metal stubs that fit into the wing roots).
These usually have shims on them to control the fore and aft play in the
wings. These shims have a habit of falling off inside the trailer or
onto the ground during disassembly of the ship. I don't remember what
the clearances are supposed to be, but get yourself some thin shims or
shim stock and try shimming the wing. You can tell when you have too
much shim when the holes through the spars for the wing pin won't line
up.

As always, you can contact Striefeneder for more info and I'm pretty
sure he sells shims too.

All the best,

Wallace
H301 N301BW

[Bruce Hoult]

In article >,
Martin Gregorie > wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:04:03 +1300, Bruce Hoult >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > (JJ Sinclair) wrote:
> >
> >> Lets see now, I'm about here, so how far to home? Should have put
> >> some of those "old-fashioned" distance circles on this
> >> "old-fashioned" map. OK, at 1000 feet per 15 statute miles
> >
> >What are you flying that has a 80+:1 glide angle? Surely you can't
> >count on making up that much in arbitrary air just by dolphining, even
> >in a 60:1 supership?
> >
> >100 ft per km is really easy, so that's what I generally use. That's
> >33:1.
> >
> Looks like a good, conservative figure to me. It was suggested that I
> used 100ft per 6 miles as baseline when I first started taking the
> club Pegasus cross country. The Peg. is fitted with an old Cambridge
> Mk 4 vario and doesn't have a glide computer. 1000/6 miles is pretty
> close to 100 ft/km. Now I fly with my own (removable) GPS, configured
> to use metric units, so 1000ft / 10 km is a no-brainer to estimate.

It's conservative in the Janus (or even Twin Astir), which is good
because I don't really want to have to derig and rig them.

It's not so conservative in the PW5! But it's more like reality
(especially if you can eke out a little bit better than still air).
There have been several times when I've made final glides from cloudbase
in the last proper thermal of the day ten or fifteen km before the last
turn point (say 40 - 50 km total) and made it right on the numbers, or
even gained a few hundred feet. And if I don't make it its no problem
because the PeeWee is easy to put down anywhere, and the wings aren't
too heavy for my GF to lift.

Hmm ... come to think of it, although I've landed out just short of the
airfield, I think so far that's only been on flights when I knew from
the outset that I didn't have enough, and there just plain wasn't any
more to be had!

-- Bruce

[BTIZ]

when you are shimming the wing.. make sure to make the proper nose to wing
tip measurements to keep the wings aligned and in trim..

BT

"Wallace Berry" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Marry Daniel or David Grah" > wrote:
>
> > My Libelle has developed a clunk. Seems like something big moving
around.
> > I appreciate the leads on where you looked for yours.
> >
> > David Grah
> > Bishop
> >
>
>
> Fore and aft play in the wings will produce "clunks" on a Libelle. Check
> your wing "spigots" (the metal stubs that fit into the wing roots).
> These usually have shims on them to control the fore and aft play in the
> wings. These shims have a habit of falling off inside the trailer or
> onto the ground during disassembly of the ship. I don't remember what
> the clearances are supposed to be, but get yourself some thin shims or
> shim stock and try shimming the wing. You can tell when you have too
> much shim when the holes through the spars for the wing pin won't line
> up.
>
> As always, you can contact Striefeneder for more info and I'm pretty
> sure he sells shims too.
>
> All the best,
>
> Wallace
> H301 N301BW

[Martin Gregorie]

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:14:35 +0000, Robert Ehrlich
> wrote:

>Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> ...
>> Now I fly with my own (removable) GPS, configured
>> to use metric units, so 1000ft / 10 km is a no-brainer to estimate.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^
>
>
>Didn't know ft is a metric unit (femto teslas ? :-)

My GPS is configurable, the altimeter is not unless I prize the glass
off and repaint the dial. Hence the mixed unit salad ;-)

Oh, yeah, and the 'compass rose' page, which I use going xc doesn't
show altitude, so no meters anywhere in sight in my cockpit.....

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[tango4]

Plenty of meters visible in your cockpit possibly fewer metres though!

:-)

Ian

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:14:35 +0000, Robert Ehrlich
> > wrote:
>
> >Martin Gregorie wrote:
> >> ...
> >> Now I fly with my own (removable) GPS, configured
> >> to use metric units, so 1000ft / 10 km is a no-brainer to estimate.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^
> >
> >
> >Didn't know ft is a metric unit (femto teslas ? :-)
>
> My GPS is configurable, the altimeter is not unless I prize the glass
> off and repaint the dial. Hence the mixed unit salad ;-)
>
> Oh, yeah, and the 'compass rose' page, which I use going xc doesn't
> show altitude, so no meters anywhere in sight in my cockpit.....
>
> --
> martin@ : Martin Gregorie
> gregorie : Harlow, UK
> demon :
> co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
> uk :
>

[Martin Gregorie]

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:44:14 +0000 (UTC), "tango4"
> wrote:

>Plenty of meters visible in your cockpit possibly fewer metres though!
>
Put that down to a mid-Atlantic spell checker on this 'ere news
reader.

>"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:14:35 +0000, Robert Ehrlich
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> >> ...
>> >> Now I fly with my own (removable) GPS, configured
>> >> to use metric units, so 1000ft / 10 km is a no-brainer to estimate.
>> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^
>> >
>> >
>> >Didn't know ft is a metric unit (femto teslas ? :-)
>>
>> My GPS is configurable, the altimeter is not unless I prize the glass
>> off and repaint the dial. Hence the mixed unit salad ;-)
>>
>> Oh, yeah, and the 'compass rose' page, which I use going xc doesn't
>> show altitude, so no meters anywhere in sight in my cockpit.....
>>
>> --
>> martin@ : Martin Gregorie
>> gregorie : Harlow, UK
>> demon :
>> co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
>> uk :
>>
>

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Chris OCallaghan]

While we were at Montague last summer, I noticed that whenever you
leaned back to survey the sky (in your official capacity as an
advisor), something on, in, or near you went "klunk!" I thought it
indelicate to mention it on the ramp. I'm glad, though, to see you got
it sorted out.

Cheers,

OC

[JJ Sinclair]

Chris wrote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>While we were at Montague last summer, I noticed that whenever you
>leaned back to survey the sky (in your official capacity as an
>advisor), something on, in, or near you went "klunk!" I thought it
>indelicate to mention it on the ramp. I'm glad, though, to see you got
>it sorted out.

That Klunk would be my Martin - Baker back, 26 degrees this morning and it's
stiff again. When old Deny and I used the nylon- descent- option, the charge
was enough to get one over the tail doing mach 2, circa 1967, they lowered the
charge after that, because nobody was attempting to get out at M2, but
everybody was getting a Martin - Baker back.

God Bless Martin - Baker, they invited me to celebrate their 2000th save, but I
was unable to attend because of another commitment in SEA.
JJ Sinclair