What next?

[ISoar]

I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am thinking about
whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a club. Question is
when to transition? I know theres going to be more lessons before I
take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar aircraft,
airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage is price.
When would be the best time to transition? When would be the
stupidest?

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

My experience is that clubs offer camaraderie and other advantages, but
getting time with an instructor is tougher so it gennerally takes longer to
make progress. That is not true for all clubs.

I joined a club after my first solo. Fortunately, the commercial instructor
was able to fly with me in the club ships. I saved money on the glider
rental by joining the club, but still had the opportunity to schedule my
flying with the paid instructor.

Paul Remde

"ISoar" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am thinking about
> whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a club. Question is
> when to transition? I know theres going to be more lessons before I
> take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar aircraft,
> airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage is price.
> When would be the best time to transition? When would be the
> stupidest?

[Stewart Kissel]

You might want to take a hard look at how long it will
take to finish up if you switch over to the club.
It may not be a cost savings if you can finish much
quicker with the FBO. Remember a club is a group working
towards a common goal, not just a cheap way for you
to learn to fly. Without knowing the particulars,
I would lean towards getting the ticket before the
transition.


At 17:42 05 November 2003, Isoar wrote:
>I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am
>thinking about
>whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a
>club. Question is
>when to transition? I know theres going to be more
>lessons before I
>take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar
>aircraft,
>airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage
>is price.
> When would be the best time to transition? When would
>be the
>stupidest?
>

[Bob Johnson]

Yippee indeed! That first time alone in the air is really going to
groove your memory tracks. You may forget the birth of your first born
but solo is really going to last.

That said, it's sometimes easier to solo than it is to get that written
test studied for and behind you. Then you'll eventually be lost to
something else, so please don't let that happen.

Partially related to that there is the very important cross-country
training. I'm speaking from ignorance here (
("As usual", I can hear being said) since training in this phase may be
just as available nowadays in a club as at the commercial
establishments. But nail this thing down early, regardless of cost.

It wasn't always thus.

Last campfire story and then I swear I'll quit:

I transitioned from USAF pilot to glider pilot about six years after
being mustered out with the boys at Appomattox Courthouse. The club at
that time had a straight-six Dodge powered winch that had to date from
before the war, and I'm still talking Civil War here(or War Between the
States if you prefer that formulation). Roy Schlemeyer, a legend in his
own time (they eventually named the airport after him), was my IP and
our ship was the venerable Schweizer 2-22. We used piano wire that Roy
had scavenged from the oilfields where it had become so work-hardened
and weakened by exposure to corrosive hydrogen sulfide gas that he could
have all he could haul off for free. We used a hank of it until sorting
it out and tying square knots (sometimes grannies) in it after the line
breaks was taking up more than half of our training time. When of course
we spooled on some more.

Anyway, long story short, the point of this ramble is that Roy felt, and
there may be some still out there that espouse this same philosophy,
that getting the student safely soloed was all he was going to show you.

It wasn't until several years later that I realized that Roy had never
been past the infield fence himself, and he wasn't about to go there
either. So I solo and then off I go in the club 1-26, learning to
thermal teaching myself cross-country technique all the way. I can
thermal OK but I still don't know much about cross country. (I know, a
camp should be in my future.)

So look after this thing too, you will enjoy your soaring experience so
much more.

And congratulations and good luck to you!

(The Hobbs, New Mexico Soaring Club is still using Roy's winch and
probaby his wire, too. If you get over there someday, look for it. It's
mounted on the chassis of a panel truck that long ago peddled snow
cones. The snow cone truck was abandoned one night in Wally Scott's
drive-in theater.

Admire the ingenuous and at the same time ingenious level wind, or
spooling-on gear. Note the location of the fuel tank. Marvel at the
protection afforded the operator. Ask how they transport it across the
airport at the end of the day. Examine the maintenance records.

Take photos of it so the folks back home will believe you.)

BJ

ISoar wrote:
>
> I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am thinking about
> whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a club. Question is
> when to transition? I know theres going to be more lessons before I
> take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar aircraft,
> airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage is price.
> When would be the best time to transition? When would be the
> stupidest?

[Tobeon]

Exactly! The first time I went solo, he just said "okay you can go on your
own now" I thought I miss heard him for a min! And when I fully realised it
was such a fantastic surprise. An amazing feeling
.....
and on a never note. my first solo I did my best landing ever, and never
since have I been able to make such a perfect landing
(the next 2 solo flights I made very sloppy landings! Eek!)

> Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.

[BMacLean]

But, you know, anticipation can be an awesome thing...

Barb

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.
> "ISoar" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am thinking about
> > whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a club. Question is
> > when to transition? I know theres going to be more lessons before I
> > take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar aircraft,
> > airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage is price.
> > When would be the best time to transition? When would be the
> > stupidest?
>
>
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[Scott]

Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.
"ISoar" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am thinking about
> whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a club. Question is
> when to transition? I know theres going to be more lessons before I
> take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar aircraft,
> airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage is price.
> When would be the best time to transition? When would be the
> stupidest?


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[ISoar]

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:56:09 -0800, "Scott" > wrote:

>Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.

Yeah, it kinda suprised me. My last flying session was cut short by
clouds moving in. Instructor told me had the weather stayed Ok, we
would have done the 200' AGL simulated rope break then it was time to
solo (Hey, I thought the low level simulated rope break was supposed
to be a surprise. The 500' AGL simulated break earlier in the day
sure was.)

I still get to wonder and wait all week watching the weather
predictions....

Bill

[BMacLean]

You can never again have a first solo so savor it.

Barb

"ISoar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:56:09 -0800, "Scott" > wrote:
>
> >Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.
>
> Yeah, it kinda suprised me. My last flying session was cut short by
> clouds moving in. Instructor told me had the weather stayed Ok, we
> would have done the 200' AGL simulated rope break then it was time to
> solo (Hey, I thought the low level simulated rope break was supposed
> to be a surprise. The 500' AGL simulated break earlier in the day
> sure was.)
>
> I still get to wonder and wait all week watching the weather
> predictions....
>
> Bill

[F.L. Whiteley]

I was simply told not to get out of the glider and sent solo on the next
tow. A bit of a surprise, but they do know when you're ready.

Frank

"Tobeon" > wrote in message
.. .
> Exactly! The first time I went solo, he just said "okay you can go on
your
> own now" I thought I miss heard him for a min! And when I fully realised
it
> was such a fantastic surprise. An amazing feeling
> ....
> and on a never note. my first solo I did my best landing ever, and never
> since have I been able to make such a perfect landing
> (the next 2 solo flights I made very sloppy landings! Eek!)
>
> > Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.
>
>

[Martin Gregorie]

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:53:40 -0000, "Tobeon" > wrote:

>Exactly! The first time I went solo, he just said "okay you can go on your
>own now" I thought I miss heard him for a min! And when I fully realised it
>was such a fantastic surprise. An amazing feeling
>....
>and on a never note. my first solo I did my best landing ever, and never
>since have I been able to make such a perfect landing
>(the next 2 solo flights I made very sloppy landings! Eek!)
>
>> Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.
>
I'll agree in spades. I'd gotten all the launch failures, spin checks
etc signed off. The instructor had me do a flight on our ASK-21 with
altimeter and ASI covered and the yaw string stuck to the canopy. I
got through that without much comment and I was thinking as we went
back on the winch queue that he was probably going to do that again
because the covers were still on. Suddenly, when we got to the head of
the queue, he told me to do this one by myself, took the covers off
the panel and did up his straps.

Its certainly a flight you'll never forget, right up there with your
first single seat flight, 5th solo for me, and first cross country.
This was a year later - Gransden Lodge to Rattlesden in a Junior under
blue conditions and *very* slow.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Robert Ehrlich]

BMacLean wrote:
>
> You can never again have a first solo so savor it.
>
> Barb
>

I was thinking that in some way you can experience it again
by becoming instructor and sending your student(s) solo, this
is one of the reasons for which I just did it in september.
To recent to already have some student solo, but had a
licensed pilot have his first solo winch launch. Not the same
thing, but we both liked it, for me also it was a first
something: my first signoff.

[BMacLean]

Omigosh, I forgot about that experience. I think it's scarier sending
someone else up on their first solo than doing your own.

Barb

"Robert Ehrlich" > wrote in message
...
> BMacLean wrote:
> >
> > You can never again have a first solo so savor it.
> >
> > Barb
> >
>
> I was thinking that in some way you can experience it again
> by becoming instructor and sending your student(s) solo, this
> is one of the reasons for which I just did it in september.
> To recent to already have some student solo, but had a
> licensed pilot have his first solo winch launch. Not the same
> thing, but we both liked it, for me also it was a first
> something: my first signoff.

[Mark James Boyd]

In article >,
ISoar > wrote:
>I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am thinking about
>whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a club. Question is
>when to transition? I know theres going to be more lessons before I
>take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar aircraft,
>airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage is price.
> When would be the best time to transition? When would be the
>stupidest?

In the US, for gliders I really don't see anything after solo
which needs to be trained (except maybe heavy crosswinds and
precision landings, since the CFIG can solo you on a calm
day at a long runway safely and put these restrictions
on your solo).

In gliders, unlike power planes, if you've soloed, you've
done the vast majority of dual flight required for US license.
What would a CFIG teach post solo that wasn't required for
safety before solo?

In power planes you'd need X-C, Instrument time, night
flight, and control tower solo practice, almost all of
which can be done safely post-solo. In gliders none of
this is mandatory (whether you agree with these
regs is another thread).

I'd recommend you stick with it at your current place.
A little extra money is worth it to finish up quickly
before rust sets in...

And if you've got an instructor to solo you,
you're pretty sure he's not just pulling hard
on your teets (milking you)... ;->

On the other hand, if the commercial op is 4x as
expensive, and this is getting you flying once
a month instead of once a week...then that
may be a different story...

[Mark James Boyd]

In article >,
Robert Ehrlich > wrote:
>BMacLean wrote:
>>
>> Omigosh, I forgot about that experience. I think it's scarier sending
>> someone else up on their first solo than doing your own.
>

Of course the wind sock is limp when you send them up, and right
after takeoff it's 90 degrees to the runway 12 gusting 20.
My Lord is a Playful and Mischievious God ;-P

[Robert Ehrlich]

BMacLean wrote:
>
> Omigosh, I forgot about that experience. I think it's scarier sending
> someone else up on their first solo than doing your own.

It was not scary when I did my own, so I hope it won't be scary when
I would sending my first student solo, neither for me nor for him. It
is the instructor's job to do so that it is not scary for the student.
Well this is a wish, we will see what the reality will be.

[Bob Johnson]

Yeah, "You're going to solo next Saturday" must be something new they're
trying.

My first IP said, "Stop here at Ops and let me out." "Sir?" "You heard
me, and no funny stuff, once around and full stop, bring it back here
and park it." Fully clothed dunk in the swimming pool.

Soloing a jet was next, "If you cock the nosewheel again, I'm going to
personally come out there and beat the crap out of you." Colorful scarf
to wear around your neck. Every Man a Tiger.

Then a little Bell Mash chopper, "Show me what you did just now and
you'll be fine."

Then I ground-looped a C-47. Never did get used to those taildraggewrs.

You know the rest of the story.

Can't quit.

The first one still shines the brightest.

BJ








You remember them all but the first

"F.L. Whiteley" wrote:
>
> I was simply told not to get out of the glider and sent solo on the next
> tow. A bit of a surprise, but they do know when you're ready.
>
> Frank
>
> "Tobeon" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > Exactly! The first time I went solo, he just said "okay you can go on
> your
> > own now" I thought I miss heard him for a min! And when I fully realised
> it
> > was such a fantastic surprise. An amazing feeling
> > ....
> > and on a never note. my first solo I did my best landing ever, and never
> > since have I been able to make such a perfect landing
> > (the next 2 solo flights I made very sloppy landings! Eek!)
> >
> > > Scheduled to solo? Now that ruins all the fun of wondering and waiting.
> >
> >

[BMacLean]

Don't get on me for my choice of words, Robert. The term "scary" was just
being girly. You know, you just try to have a pleasant conversation and
maybe a little fun on this newsgroup and you get chastised. Everybody's got
to take the opportunity to show their "superiority." So you want to be
serious...I perhaps invest too much personally in my students and I want
them to do so well and have such a good experience that I feel it deeply.
My students know I care but maybe not how much. They're just acutely aware
that I have the utmost confidence in them and by solo they have it in
themselves. Thanks, Mark. You get my drift. (No windsock pun intended.)

Barb

"Robert Ehrlich" > wrote in message
...
> BMacLean wrote:
> >
> > Omigosh, I forgot about that experience. I think it's scarier sending
> > someone else up on their first solo than doing your own.
>
> It was not scary when I did my own, so I hope it won't be scary when
> I would sending my first student solo, neither for me nor for him. It
> is the instructor's job to do so that it is not scary for the student.
> Well this is a wish, we will see what the reality will be.

[Hank Nixon]

(ISoar) wrote in message >...
> I'm scheduled to Solo this weekend (yipeee!) and am thinking about
> whats next. Plan was to train at a FBO then join a club. Question is
> when to transition? I know theres going to be more lessons before I
> take the FAA license test. FBO advantage is familiar aircraft,
> airfield, soaring conditions, instructor. Only disadvantage is price.
> When would be the best time to transition? When would be the
> stupidest?

Stick with the operation that has the resources to assist and guide
you
at a rate that matches your time and enthusiasm. If your prospective
club has plenty of resources- great. BUT if they are small and
stretched, your progress may slow.
Also- working with an instructor who understands you and you
understand- PRICELESS!
Also remember there is something to be learned from each style of
training.
#1 Have Fun! First solo is one of the most memorable moments in our
lives.
UH

[ISoar]

On 6 Nov 2003 12:11:59 -0700, (Mark James Boyd)
wrote:

>In article >,

>What would a CFIG teach post solo that wasn't required for
>safety before solo?

How to fly a modern aircraft. I think moving from a 2-33 to a Grob is
going to be an eye-opener.


>I'd recommend you stick with it at your current place.
>A little extra money is worth it to finish up quickly
>before rust sets in...

My initial conclusion also. Somtimes it's nice to see what the 'net
drug in on questsions where I know I don't know much.

[Robert Ehrlich]

BMacLean wrote:
>
> Don't get on me for my choice of words, Robert. The term "scary" was just
> being girly. You know, you just try to have a pleasant conversation and
> maybe a little fun on this newsgroup and you get chastised. Everybody's got
> to take the opportunity to show their "superiority." So you want to be
> serious...I perhaps invest too much personally in my students and I want
> them to do so well and have such a good experience that I feel it deeply.
> My students know I care but maybe not how much. They're just acutely aware
> that I have the utmost confidence in them and by solo they have it in
> themselves. Thanks, Mark. You get my drift. (No windsock pun intended.)
>
> Barb
>

Sorry for chastising you without intending it. Remember I am not a native
English speaker (or rather reader and writer) so I don't always get some
subtleties. I think that flying in the same club as two national champions
will prevent me from any attempt to show any "superiority". And my experience
a an instructor is so low that I can only speak of my view on the future and
learn from others. But I wanted just to insist that the instructor who sent me
solo did a good job so I was completely confident at this time.