Looking for Ridge Lift/Turbulence Diagram

[DrJack]

I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
copy.

--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

[Jack]

in article , DrJack at
wrote on 2003/11/10 13:33:

> I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
> to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
> aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
> depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
> the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
> know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
> copy.

http://www.flymorningside.com/wave.htm


Jack

[Waduino]

You could try some of these. See if anything suits you.

http://sbsi.csumb.edu/sbsc256/sbscStuff/Chapter_3/3_1_6.html

Slide #16 at the following link is so-so
http://www.maths.monash.edu.au/atm1010/files/Lectures/ATM1010_L15.pdf

There's a nice one in French here but I haven't figured out how to copy it
http://www.meteo.fr/meteonet_en/decouvr/dossier/nuages/nua.htm

Hope someone can do better!


Regards, and thanks for all that you do.


"DrJack" > wrote in message
...
> I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
> to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
> aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
> depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
> the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
> know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
> copy.
>
> --
> Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist
>

[DrJack]

I had best emphasize that here I am concerned with _ridge_ lift, which
occurs upwind of the ridge, not _wave_ flow - I want to contrast the two
cases and already have several diagrams depicting wave flow.

--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

[Charles Petersen]

Check out the animated graphics at
http://www.yorksoaring.com/whatissoaring.html. You may have to click along
several pages to get to the ridge lift page.

Charles Petersen, grateful user of Dr. Jack's Blip Maps

"DrJack" > wrote in message
...
> I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
> to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
> aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
> depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
> the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
> know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
> copy.
>
> --
> Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist
>

[cernauta]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:33:26 GMT, DrJack >
wrote:

I have not been able to find a diagram which
>depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
>the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
>know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
>copy.

You may want to download this german presentation about Flying safely
in the mountains. A couple of (ugly) diagrams can be useful.

http://www.daec.de/downfiles/flusi/gebirgsflug.pdf

Aldo Cernezzi

(PUSSAVIA and BUBU must be removed)

[C.Fleming]

This looked great! Is there an English translation?

[Tim Shea]

The drawing at the flymorninggside site looks funny to me. Are you SURE that
is accurate? It looks like ridge lift, not standing mountain wave. The wave
sets up *after* the mountain range, not above and in front as depicted in
the wave.htm link.
The best diagram I've seen was made by Dan Gudgel (works for the National
Weather Service in Hanford, CA). he may be able to
e-mail it.
Tim



"Jack" > wrote in message
...
> in article , DrJack at
> wrote on 2003/11/10 13:33:
>
> > I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
> > to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
> > aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
> > depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
> > the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
> > know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
> > copy.
>
> http://www.flymorningside.com/wave.htm
>
>
> Jack
>
>

[Jack Glendening]

Tim Shea wrote:
> The drawing at the flymorninggside site looks funny to me. Are you SURE that
> is accurate? It looks like ridge lift, not standing mountain wave. The wave
> sets up *after* the mountain range, not above and in front as depicted in
> the wave.htm link.
> The best diagram I've seen was made by Dan Gudgel (works for the National
> Weather Service in Hanford, CA). ***DELETED*** he may be able to
> e-mail it.
> Tim

Tim,

The morningside diagram _is_ misleading - lift does occur upwind of the
ridge but it is normal "ridge" lift and disconnected from the wave flow.
I will contact Dan Gudgel since I know him, thanks for the lead. BTW
it's a bad idea to include an email address in a RAS posting unless it
is first altered or "munged" to prevent it's being harvested by spammers.

Jack

[Jack Glendening]

My thanks to all who responded. I am going to use two of the diagrams,
one to illustrate soaring lift over a ridge and another to illustrate
dangers to aircraft downstream of a ridge.

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Jack Glendening" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Tim Shea wrote:
> > The drawing at the flymorninggside site looks funny to me. Are you SURE
that
> > is accurate? It looks like ridge lift, not standing mountain wave. The
wave
> > sets up *after* the mountain range, not above and in front as depicted
in
> > the wave.htm link.
> > The best diagram I've seen was made by Dan Gudgel (works for the
National
> > Weather Service in Hanford, CA). ***DELETED*** he may be able to
> > e-mail it.
> > Tim
>
> Tim,
>
> The morningside diagram _is_ misleading - lift does occur upwind of the
> ridge but it is normal "ridge" lift and disconnected from the wave flow.
> I will contact Dan Gudgel since I know him, thanks for the lead. BTW
> it's a bad idea to include an email address in a RAS posting unless it
> is first altered or "munged" to prevent it's being harvested by spammers.
>
> Jack
>
Both the wave and ridge diagrams are poorly drawn conceptually, surely there
are better examples.

munging happens on the right side of the @ only

altering the left side may only create an alias

if you have an effective and powerful spam filter, neither matters, and once
_everyone_ has one, the spammers are dead. choose your ISP wisely

Frank Whiteley
posting in the clear from the same e-mail for 7 years;^), blackholing 10,000
spams/month at the user-configurable server pre-filter. FWIW, most ISPs are
seeing about 80% SPAM, in terms of volume, on mail servers.

[F.L. Whiteley]

Better

"Charles Petersen" > wrote in message
...
> Check out the animated graphics at
> http://www.yorksoaring.com/whatissoaring.html. You may have to click
along
> several pages to get to the ridge lift page.
>
> Charles Petersen, grateful user of Dr. Jack's Blip Maps
>
> "DrJack" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm giving a (paid!) talk Saturday on soaring and soaring meteorology
> > to a group of power-rated pilots as part of a continuing education
> > aviation seminar. I have not been able to find a diagram which
> > depicts flow over a ridge showing both the lift on the upwind side and
> > the turbulence/sink on the downwind side and hope someone here might
> > know of one, particularly if available on the internet so I can get a
> > copy.
> >
> > --
> > Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist
> >
>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

which?

"Jack Glendening" > wrote in message
link.net...
> My thanks to all who responded. I am going to use two of the diagrams,
> one to illustrate soaring lift over a ridge and another to illustrate
> dangers to aircraft downstream of a ridge.
>

[Robert Ehrlich]

"F.L. Whiteley" wrote:
> ...
> if you have an effective and powerful spam filter, neither matters, and once
> _everyone_ has one, the spammers are dead. choose your ISP wisely
> ...

There is no difference for the spammers if you receive the spam and don't
read it or if some filter avoid that you even see it. As almost everyone
who has no filter is in the first case, why should it change anything if
they go in the second case? As long as the spammers would believe that there
is a 1/1000000 chance that their spam is read, they will try to send 1000000000000
spam (approximatively :-), this is the basic principle of spam. The only
correct solution is that their providers block the spam at its source,
but all this waste of bandwith is source of income for the providers,
so there is little chance that they will do anything to cut it. And we all
pay for it.

[Jack Glendening]

F.L. Whiteley wrote:
> which?
>
> "Jack Glendening" > wrote in message
> link.net...
>
>>My thanks to all who responded. I am going to use two of the diagrams,
>>one to illustrate soaring lift over a ridge and another to illustrate
>>dangers to aircraft downstream of a ridge.
>>
>

One that Peter Deane sent to me outside RAS and one that I altered heavily
from the French version http://www.drjack.net/TEMP/ridgeflow.png

[Jack Glendening]

But I should add that I also grabbed some of the other images that
looked better than the ones I had, such as some from York Soaring

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Robert Ehrlich" > wrote in message
...
> "F.L. Whiteley" wrote:
> > ...
> > if you have an effective and powerful spam filter, neither matters, and
once
> > _everyone_ has one, the spammers are dead. choose your ISP wisely
> > ...
>
> There is no difference for the spammers if you receive the spam and don't
> read it or if some filter avoid that you even see it. As almost everyone
> who has no filter is in the first case, why should it change anything if
> they go in the second case? As long as the spammers would believe that
there
> is a 1/1000000 chance that their spam is read, they will try to send
1000000000000
> spam (approximatively :-), this is the basic principle of spam. The only
> correct solution is that their providers block the spam at its source,
> but all this waste of bandwith is source of income for the providers,
> so there is little chance that they will do anything to cut it. And we all
> pay for it.
When it costs more to send than they receive they will stop, and that will
be sometime well before 1/1000000 ratio is reached. Either method will
work, eventually. By filtering at the gateway, we do save performance on
the mail servers and the user pipes. It also stops mail viruses, so I shed
a few hundreds of those each month, especially recently the Gibe.C which
seems to be heavily propagated among aviation enthusiasts.

Frank Whiteley

[Jack Glendening]

F.L. Whiteley wrote:
> blackholing 10,000 spams/month at the user-configurable server pre-filter

If you are getting and ignoring over 3000 emails per _day_ I can't see
that you can know that none of those are legitimate email. I don't know
of any perfect spam filter and the black hole lists are also not perfect
as there are documented cases of innocent IPs being "collateral damage"
of over-zealous listings.

[C.Fleming]

With a thick English accent:

Q: What's for breakfast?

A: Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Beans and Spam.

But I don't like Spam!

We also have Beans Beans Beans Spam and Beans.

I DON'T LIKE SPAM!

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Jack Glendening" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> F.L. Whiteley wrote:
> > blackholing 10,000 spams/month at the user-configurable server
pre-filter
>
> If you are getting and ignoring over 3000 emails per _day_ I can't see
> that you can know that none of those are legitimate email. I don't know
> of any perfect spam filter and the black hole lists are also not perfect
> as there are documented cases of innocent IPs being "collateral damage"
> of over-zealous listings.
>
340/day. Not ignored, but a quick scan suffices.

Please visit www.mailarmory.com and look over the website, including the
tools. It's a combo of fuzzy logic, RBL's,

Also www.greeleynet.com/mailarmory/mailarmory.ppt for a user view.

Sorry the PP presentation is a devoid of comments, that was an audible at
our monthly users group meeting. Briefly,

1. It's user configurable. You can view what is filtered and choose to add
it to your accept list, reject list, or ignore it. The accept and reject
lists also allow wildcards, like *drjack.net, which would allow anything
from that domain through, list or whatever. Customer education is important
and it does take some time daily to tweak settings. I check in and purge
the AM and PM and again when demonstrating to new clients.

2. I currently run my account at aggression 2. Two points and it's
filtered. The captured mail can be sorted by any column and there is also a
search tool. Personally I recommend sorting by Type, that is, the 'weight'
given any particular message. The lower the weight, the less likely to be
spam. Since the mailarmory engine 'learns', there is the possibility of
weights being a little odd after a major engine upgrade as we did for the
first time this past July. That was the first time I'd seen legitimate
e-mail gaining 8 points and it only happened over a period of 3-4 days while
the engine 're-educated' itself to mail patterns so that no legitimate
e-mail gets 8 points again. No legitimate e-mail got over 8 points during
this short period. If you notice, you can optionally Autotrash e-mail 8
points and above. Trust me, most Viagra and Porn gets at least 8 points and
often over 10. The virus filtering is as effective as any installed. We
still recommend an client anti-virus since cracked web sites can still
download trojans and malicious scripts that may can download dangerous code.

3. The claim that it can be 99.7 effective is not spurious, but it is an
interactive tool and requires the user to pay some attention. Mailarmory
resides on a Sonet pipe that can lit to meet subscriber needs. It operates
across multiple servers, n-expandable to accomodate business, corporate, and
ISP mail servers. An Incredimail message forwarded by an AOL or Hotmail
user may come in at 6 or 7, but the bulk of these are forwarded noise. Mail
may reside in the captured area for 4 hours to 14 days, by user discretion.
I have about 120 entries in my accept list and 6 in my reject list after 18
months. I've been posting to the USENET from this e-mail address since
1996. The biggest increase in SPAM followed expiration of our MAPS RBL
subscription in August 2002 accompanied by the release of Mailarmory to all
customers.

4. Yeah, it's been DDOS'd. Results in some queuing, but no loss. Stood up
a lot better than the RBL sites that were thrashed.

Frank Whiteley
fuzzy logic, RBL databases, carries a price, and takes a chunk of processing
power

[Jack Glendening]

(Sorry about the extra 0). That explains better, I had thought from
what you had said that it was a pre-filtering so you never looked at the
filtered emails at all. I use spamassassin with heuristic rules and
Bayesian "learning" based on the spam/non-spam emails I've already
received (but I have it's black hole lists disabled) and for the last
month it's been 99.7% correct (1 false positive and 3 false negative),
but I still feel I have to scan every subject line just in case (the
filtered spam being directed to its own mailbox). And I still do
everything I can, such as munging, to keep it down since any spam at all
is an annoyance so the fewer I get the better, as much for my mental
peace of mind as for the actual work involved. I'm at 40 spams/day
which is tolerable, considering that I have 3 different mailboxes plus
the "catch all" mailbox from my domain name.

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Jack Glendening" > wrote in message
link.net...
> (Sorry about the extra 0). That explains better, I had thought from
> what you had said that it was a pre-filtering so you never looked at the
> filtered emails at all. I use spamassassin with heuristic rules and
> Bayesian "learning" based on the spam/non-spam emails I've already
> received (but I have it's black hole lists disabled) and for the last
> month it's been 99.7% correct (1 false positive and 3 false negative),
> but I still feel I have to scan every subject line just in case (the
> filtered spam being directed to its own mailbox). And I still do
> everything I can, such as munging, to keep it down since any spam at all
> is an annoyance so the fewer I get the better, as much for my mental
> peace of mind as for the actual work involved. I'm at 40 spams/day
> which is tolerable, considering that I have 3 different mailboxes plus
> the "catch all" mailbox from my domain name.
>
Those are all good methods and part of the mailarmory methodology as well.
Some people are irritated at 20 spams per week, but then they may only check
e-mail 2-3 times during that week. I worry more about customers possibly
missing an important e-mail, but then I also wonder about those that think
free e-mail accounts are good enough for e-commerce and important work.
Locally, people are finding the local cable provider a poor choice as they
are now hitting a 3MB message limit and 10MB account limit (bounces if
exceeded). Our account charges are based on an average size per month with
10MB allowed. The server fires a warning if 20MB is exceeded, but we don't
bounce anything. The largest attachment I've ever received is 30+MB, but it
helps to be on a high speed circuit as this doesn't work real well on
dail-up, especially if pair-gain is in the loop.

No one can legislate SPAM out of existence, the solution will be a
verification standard. Unverifiable messages just won't be delivered.

Back to soaring now,

Frank

[Tom Seim]

This is a better diagram (along with some others):

http://www.tpub.com/weather2/3-25.htm

Tom