Thermal locators!

[Bob Johnson]

Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.

Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)

Winter food for thot

BJ

[John Ferguson]

How about this to help you make the best of thermals
you have bumped into. Does anyone have any practical
experience of this device ?

http://www.themi.de/Themi%20Centering%20Device.htm

Anyone used the Winpilot Pro Climb maximiser, does
it work ?

John


At 16:54 19 November 2003, Bob Johnson wrote:
>Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast
>of when he thinks
>real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals,
>or (let's not
>be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
>
>
>Or does he think there is a physical limit to this
>problem, beyond which
>we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)
>
>Winter food for thot
>
>BJ
>

[Rod Pool]

All

As I'm still trying to make Silver distance I well appreciate the
desire for a thermal road map. However, mystery is part of the marvel
of soaring.
For certainty all one need do is fill the tanks on a power plane and
go. No mystery in that.
Tom Knauff reports the Themi works. See eglider.com for a review.

Regards

Rod

[DrJack]

Bob Johnson wrote:
> Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
> real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
> be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
> Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
> we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)

The first thing that needs to be established is data uplink to a glider
so that _presently_ existing observations (eg satellite images) or
predictions (eg updated BLIPMAPs) can be obtained, and I'm not an expert
on when that will occur. (Milt Hare used to solve the updating problem
by calling his glider-rated wife from the air and having her describe
the latest BLIPMAP predictions to him, but I don't think that will be a
common practice!). Observation of individual thermals is difficult
enough for researchers (typically taking two lidar/radars) so I can't
see that being feasible in my lifetime, and in any case thermals have
relatively short lifetimes - what would be more practical would be
observation of the general "convective status" at specific locations,
which is possible using special temperature-profile sounders (not the
sounders used for upper-level wind speeds) - but at present those are
few and far between (an example of such sounder output can be seen at
http://www.weather.nps.navy.mil/profiler/ord_mix.gif )

--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

[Richard Pfiffner]

Check out the thermal finder in WinPilot. WinPilot XP takes logger flights,
IGC files, and produces a thermal data base. You need to have WinPilot XP
for your desktop computer and WinPilot ADV or PRO for your Ipaq. I
personally have six years of data for Montague and all the contest flights
in the area, in my Montaque thermal data base. WinPilot can be set to
limit the thermals by sun position and wind direction. The thermals can be
turned on and off by assigning a button on the front of the Ipaq. Many
contest flights are available for download for most US contest sites. One
interesting thing is the thermals that were found by contest pilots in areas
that locals very rarely fly. I believe there is also a thermal data base
available for the Minden area. I will add a thermal database page for
WinPilot users to my website in the next couple of days. If you have a
thermal database for you area and want it placed on my web please email it
to me.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com


"Bob Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
> real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
> be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
>
> Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
> we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)
>
> Winter food for thot
>
> BJ

[Ray Lovinggood]

I heard about this feature of WinPilot at the SSA convention
earlier this year. Amazing.

Now, it will be interesting to see the effect to the
database(s) as land-use changes take place. What happens
to the burned areas (California?) or timbered areas
or locations that were purely agricultural and change
to residential or commercial?

I don't have WinPilot, but I think it would be interesting
to know what happens.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

At 15:12 20 November 2003, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
>Check out the thermal finder in WinPilot. WinPilot
>XP takes logger flights,
>IGC files, and produces a thermal data base. You
>need to have WinPilot XP
>for your desktop computer and WinPilot ADV or PRO for
>your Ipaq. I
>personally have six years of data for Montague and
>all the contest flights
>in the area, in my Montaque thermal data base. WinPilot
>can be set to
>limit the thermals by sun position and wind direction.
> The thermals can be
>turned on and off by assigning a button on the front
>of the Ipaq. Many
>contest flights are available for download for most
>US contest sites. One
>interesting thing is the thermals that were found by
>contest pilots in areas
>that locals very rarely fly. I believe there is also
>a thermal data base
>available for the Minden area. I will add a thermal
>database page for
>WinPilot users to my website in the next couple of
>days. If you have a
>thermal database for you area and want it placed on
>my web please email it
>to me.
>
>Richard
>www.craggyaero.com

[Gary Kemp]

The closest thing I have seen for thermal locators is WinPilot's data
base for thermals. you can enter as many thermals for a site that you
want to and have a read out on you PocketPC Winpilot program that
shows where thermals have historically been located given a particular
day, time of day and wind variables. Works pretty good, but if you
have flown many years at one site you know where the thermals are
anyway, if there are any thermals that is.

G. Kemp

DrJack > wrote in message >...
> Bob Johnson wrote:
> > Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
> > real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
> > be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
> > Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
> > we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)
>
> The first thing that needs to be established is data uplink to a glider
> so that _presently_ existing observations (eg satellite images) or
> predictions (eg updated BLIPMAPs) can be obtained, and I'm not an expert
> on when that will occur. (Milt Hare used to solve the updating problem
> by calling his glider-rated wife from the air and having her describe
> the latest BLIPMAP predictions to him, but I don't think that will be a
> common practice!). Observation of individual thermals is difficult
> enough for researchers (typically taking two lidar/radars) so I can't
> see that being feasible in my lifetime, and in any case thermals have
> relatively short lifetimes - what would be more practical would be
> observation of the general "convective status" at specific locations,
> which is possible using special temperature-profile sounders (not the
> sounders used for upper-level wind speeds) - but at present those are
> few and far between (an example of such sounder output can be seen at
> http://www.weather.nps.navy.mil/profiler/ord_mix.gif )

[Jack Glendening]

Robert Ehrlich wrote:
> How does such a device work? There is on the picture the indication
> "915 MHz" which seems to imply that it uses radio high frequency, but
> how?

In additon to the HF radio signal an acoustic pulse is sent which alters
the propagation speed depending on temperature. The height to which it
can reach is limited by the strength of the acoustic signal and so is
not practical at higher altitudes. See

http://www.wx.rutgers.edu/PAM/aboutRASS.shtml

[Bob Johnson]

DrJack --

I took the liberty of truncating your url and came up with this record:

http://www.weather.nps.navy.mil/profiler/r07_sfc.gif

The second bar of 24-hr data "deg" shows a background of Westerly winds
until about 10:00 UTC (1 PM? local), when shifts around the compass are
seen. These shifts persist until around local sundown. Could these
shifts be "convective status" markers from the profiler?

Another story (good grief, will they never stop?):

Wally Scott was limited by car tows to only collecting more Barringer
Trophies than his wife had room for on the walls of their home. He would
wait at the end of the runway with his ship hooked up to his Chevy
station wagon until one or more of the runway windsocks started to droop
and point away from the prevailing wind. This was his signal for "OK,
Boots, slack's out, let's go". And he was gone.

I guess a space-based Doppler Lidar would be hard pressed to to
determine a surface convective reflection through all the intervening
atmospheric layers?

http://www.ghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/sparcle/sparcle_tutorial.html

Thanks for your answer,

Bob Johnson
Midland, Texas







DrJack wrote:
>
> Bob Johnson wrote:
> > Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
> > real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
> > be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
> > Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
> > we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)
>
> The first thing that needs to be established is data uplink to a glider
> so that _presently_ existing observations (eg satellite images) or
> predictions (eg updated BLIPMAPs) can be obtained, and I'm not an expert
> on when that will occur. (Milt Hare used to solve the updating problem
> by calling his glider-rated wife from the air and having her describe
> the latest BLIPMAP predictions to him, but I don't think that will be a
> common practice!). Observation of individual thermals is difficult
> enough for researchers (typically taking two lidar/radars) so I can't
> see that being feasible in my lifetime, and in any case thermals have
> relatively short lifetimes - what would be more practical would be
> observation of the general "convective status" at specific locations,
> which is possible using special temperature-profile sounders (not the
> sounders used for upper-level wind speeds) - but at present those are
> few and far between (an example of such sounder output can be seen at
> http://www.weather.nps.navy.mil/profiler/ord_mix.gif )
>
> --
> Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

[DrJack]

Bob Johnson wrote:
> I took the liberty of truncating your url and came up with this record:
> http://www.weather.nps.navy.mil/profiler/r07_sfc.gif

Those are surface measurements from a normal set of surface weather
sensors. The one you mention is surface wind direction, the dramatic
changes being onshore/offshore sea-breeze flow since the site is located
within 2 miles of the ocean.


--
Dr. John W. (Jack) Glendening Meteorologist

[JJ Sinclair]

Thermals can be found in rather predictable locations in the mountains, but how
do these *thermal finders* work over flat country, say Hobbs or Uvalde?
JJ Sinclair

[Bob Johnson]

OK sports fans, how about this?

http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/updated/air/monops/data/satellite/MAF/vis/latest.vis.GIF

A couple of newfangled photo/cell phones and a good wife home in front
of the PC sending me cu updates. There's our uplink!

I would like to zero in on a smaller area, like Midland-Hobbs-Clovis and
return, but that should be do-able, shouldn't it? The smaller area, that
is.

Winter thots ---

BJ

Bob Johnson wrote:
>
> Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
> real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
> be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
>
> Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
> we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)
>
> Winter food for thot
>
> BJ

[Bob Johnson]

Here's a real sexy one. Look at those cu's on the coast!

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/burn/wfabba/wfabba_rt66nmex_last.html

BJ

Bob Johnson wrote:

> OK sports fans, how about this?
>
> http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/updated/air/monops/data/satellite/MAF/vis/latest.vis.GIF
>
> A couple of newfangled photo/cell phones and a good wife home in front
> of the PC sending me cu updates. There's our uplink!
>
> I would like to zero in on a smaller area, like Midland-Hobbs-Clovis and
> return, but that should be do-able, shouldn't it? The smaller area, that
> is.
>
> Winter thots ---
>
> BJ
>
> Bob Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
> > real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
> > be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
> >
> > Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
> > we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)
> >
> > Winter food for thot
> >
> > BJ

[Bob Johnson]

And wave at Alamogordo!

Bob Johnson wrote:

> Here's a real sexy one. Look at those cu's on the coast!
>
> http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/burn/wfabba/wfabba_rt66nmex_last.html
>
> BJ
>
> Bob Johnson wrote:
>
> > OK sports fans, how about this?
> >
> > http://www.tnrcc.state.tx.us/updated/air/monops/data/satellite/MAF/vis/latest.vis.GIF
> >
> > A couple of newfangled photo/cell phones and a good wife home in front
> > of the PC sending me cu updates. There's our uplink!
> >
> > I would like to zero in on a smaller area, like Midland-Hobbs-Clovis and
> > return, but that should be do-able, shouldn't it? The smaller area, that
> > is.
> >
> > Winter thots ---
> >
> > BJ
> >
> > Bob Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > Serusly, maybe Dr. Jack can log in with his forecast of when he thinks
> > > real-time moving map cockpit displays of current thermals, or (let's not
> > > be unreasonable here) 1-hr old thermals will be available.
> > >
> > > Or does he think there is a physical limit to this problem, beyond which
> > > we cannot go? (Like 7 A-h batteries)
> > >
> > > Winter food for thot
> > >
> > > BJ