Make Sailplane Racing Great Again

[[email protected]]

You will only improve if you are honest with yourself and admit your weaknesses. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A tow rope looses 50% of its strength with a knot it in.

For those who have tasted flight, their eyes will be forever turned skyward.. And for those who have tasted the excitement of racing alongside another sailplane, they will forever want to compete. Sailplane racing is a sport in which a 16 year old can compete against an 86 year old. It is the most pure form of aviation that exists. Hot air ballooning, helicopters, power aircraft to gyrocopters, can quickly reach a state where you feel you have mastered that craft. With Soaring, it takes a lifetime, an endless pursuit of winning a challeng that is always changing with the winds.

What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?

My opinion is that the complexities of the game have become too overwhelming it takes the fun away.

Back in the old days, it was as simple as who can fly the furthest downwind.. That's simple to understand.

Technology, spot tracking, no more cameras at the points have changed our sport, but is it really for the better? Are we embracing these technological advancements to rise our sport or has it been used to demise our sport?

More than often in the past decade have we seen dismal turnouts for classes.. 12 pilots for the standard class national championship showed up! That's pathetic!

It makes me wonder, does the SSA leadership want a sold out contest? Or do they want a small turnout to reduce the competition they face? Actions speak louder than words! Or is it that this has become a good old boys club and we want to keep it small like a gentlemens hunting club.

It's shocking that a pilot can get a rating, buy a glider and finish last place in a regional contest and then with minimal qualifications qualify for a National Contest!

This alone clearly shows that what has been done to keep the sport the same size, or increase its participation levels has been a failure.

[jfitch]

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 8:17:12 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> You will only improve if you are honest with yourself and admit your weaknesses. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A tow rope looses 50% of its strength with a knot it in.
>
> For those who have tasted flight, their eyes will be forever turned skyward. And for those who have tasted the excitement of racing alongside another sailplane, they will forever want to compete. Sailplane racing is a sport in which a 16 year old can compete against an 86 year old. It is the most pure form of aviation that exists. Hot air ballooning, helicopters, power aircraft to gyrocopters, can quickly reach a state where you feel you have mastered that craft. With Soaring, it takes a lifetime, an endless pursuit of winning a challeng that is always changing with the winds.
>
> What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?
>
> My opinion is that the complexities of the game have become too overwhelming it takes the fun away.
>
> Back in the old days, it was as simple as who can fly the furthest downwind. That's simple to understand.
>
> Technology, spot tracking, no more cameras at the points have changed our sport, but is it really for the better? Are we embracing these technological advancements to rise our sport or has it been used to demise our sport?
>
> More than often in the past decade have we seen dismal turnouts for classes. 12 pilots for the standard class national championship showed up! That's pathetic!
>
> It makes me wonder, does the SSA leadership want a sold out contest? Or do they want a small turnout to reduce the competition they face? Actions speak louder than words! Or is it that this has become a good old boys club and we want to keep it small like a gentlemens hunting club.
>
> It's shocking that a pilot can get a rating, buy a glider and finish last place in a regional contest and then with minimal qualifications qualify for a National Contest!
>
> This alone clearly shows that what has been done to keep the sport the same size, or increase its participation levels has been a failure.

What a load of drivel....

[[email protected]]

^^^^^^^NAYSAYER IN DENIAL^^^^^^^

[Michael Opitz]

At 16:17 04 March 2017, wrote:
>You will only improve if you are honest with yourself and admit
your
>weakne=
>sses. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A tow rope
looses
>50=
>% of its strength with a knot it in.
>
>For those who have tasted flight, their eyes will be forever turned
>skyward=
>.. And for those who have tasted the excitement of racing
alongside
>another=
> sailplane, they will forever want to compete. Sailplane racing is a
>sport=
> in which a 16 year old can compete against an 86 year old. It is
the
>most=
> pure form of aviation that exists. Hot air ballooning, helicopters,
>power=
> aircraft to gyrocopters, can quickly reach a state where you feel
you
>have=
> mastered that craft. With Soaring, it takes a lifetime, an endless
>pursui=
>t of winning a challeng that is always changing with the winds.
>
>What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?
>
>My opinion is that the complexities of the game have become too
>overwhelmin=
>g it takes the fun away.
>
>Back in the old days, it was as simple as who can fly the furthest
>downwind=
>.. That's simple to understand.
>
>Technology, spot tracking, no more cameras at the points have
changed our
>s=
>port, but is it really for the better? Are we embracing these
>technologica=
>l advancements to rise our sport or has it been used to demise our
sport?
>
>More than often in the past decade have we seen dismal turnouts
for
>classes=
>.. 12 pilots for the standard class national championship showed
up!
>That'=
>s pathetic!
>
>It makes me wonder, does the SSA leadership want a sold out
contest? Or do
>=
>they want a small turnout to reduce the competition they face?
Actions
>spe=
>ak louder than words! Or is it that this has become a good old
boys club
>a=
>nd we want to keep it small like a gentlemens hunting club.
>
>It's shocking that a pilot can get a rating, buy a glider and finish
last
>p=
>lace in a regional contest and then with minimal qualifications
qualify
>for=
> a National Contest! =20
>
>This alone clearly shows that what has been done to keep the
sport the
>same=
> size, or increase its participation levels has been a failure.
>

As others have noted, only a small part of the USA soaring
population cares about racing. SSA membership has gone down
from 16,000 back in the 1980's to ~10,000 now, so the total
amount of people interested in racing is down as well proportionally.

Back in the 1980's there were only 3 racing classes (STD, 15m &
Open) to carry the load of anyone that wanted to race seriously.
Now, in addition to those 3 classes, we have Sports, Club, 18m,
and maybe 2-seater coming, not to mention 1-26, World, and
aerobatic contests to boot. That is why the number of contest
entrants (per class as well) is down from back in the 1980's. There
was a big drop in membership, and an explosion in different racing
classes.

On top of that, the prices of new gliders effectively doubled in US$
when they went from the German DM to the Euro, so who can afford
to buy a new competitive glider to race anymore?? That has
dropped the participation too. As the costs go up, the participation
numbers will go down.

There are a lot of tough nuts to crack here, and it doesn't all hinge
on what kind of format we use for the few of us that do race.

RO

[[email protected]]

You've said it best, there are lots of "tough nuts to crack."

I very much respect that you are not in denial. Essentially your statistics show a decline of almost 50% in soaring. That's sad.

In another 10 years, we will be lucky to even have the minimum entrants to have a race.

I get it, not everyone likes racing. People own ferrari's but don't necessarily want to race them. There's the cost of repairs from a wreck, etc. Likewise, not everyone who owns an ASG-29 wants to take a couple weeks off or a national race.

But we need to be asking those who are NOT interested in racing "Why are you not interested?"

There you will find the answers.

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

Sheesh. Where to begin? Critical thinking skills anyone?

On 3/4/2017 9:17 AM, wrote:

<"Duh!" platitude snipped>
> For those who have tasted flight, their eyes will be forever turned
> skyward.
Utter nonsense...no evident critical thinking skills associated with this
claim/wishful thinking.

> And for those who have tasted the excitement of racing alongside
> another sailplane, they will forever want to compete.
More utter nonsense. BTDT and enjoy other aspects associated with soaring
considerably more.

> Sailplane racing is
> a sport in which a 16 year old can compete against an 86 year old.
And...?

> It is
> the most pure form of aviation that exists.
So? This is important to those uninterested in flight exactly why?

> Hot air ballooning,
> helicopters, power aircraft to gyrocopters, can quickly reach a state where
> you feel you have mastered that craft.
More utter (ignorant? intentionally dismissive?) nonsense. <Another obvious,
likely irrelevant to the issue ostensibly under discussion, statement snipped...>

> What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?
>
> My opinion is that the complexities of the game have become too
> overwhelming it takes the fun away.
>
> Back in the old days, it was as simple as who can fly the furthest
> downwind. That's simple to understand.
>
> Technology, spot tracking, no more cameras at the points have changed our
> sport, but is it really for the better? Are we embracing these
> technological advancements to rise our sport or has it been used to demise
> our sport?
>
> More than often in the past decade have we seen dismal turnouts for
> classes. 12 pilots for the standard class national championship showed up!
> That's pathetic!
No question the above passionately-held
opinions/observations/implicit-questions contain real elements worthy of
thought, and, action (neither of which are in short supply in the SSA/US
soaring community, IMHO). But...

> It makes me wonder, does the SSA leadership want a sold out contest? Or do
> they want a small turnout to reduce the competition they face? Actions
> speak louder than words! Or is it that this has become a good old boys
> club and we want to keep it small like a gentlemens hunting club.
You left out, "Or do they like to rattle my cage because I hold my opinions so
strongly, even if my conclusions seem to some (more than me, I suspect)
simplistic beyond belief, if not outright off the (many) mark(s)? That's
independent of the implicit disrespect in said opinions - and I would make
that claim even were I in 100% agreement with you. Just because others hold
opinions differing from yours doesn't automatically make those others worthy
of sarcasm, anger, or ad-hominem dismissal. Reasonable people can agree to
reasonably disagree,

> It's shocking that a pilot can get a rating, buy a glider and finish last
> place in a regional contest and then with minimal qualifications qualify
> for a National Contest!
>
> This alone clearly shows that what has been done to keep the sport the same
> size, or increase its participation levels has been a failure.
>
Indeed it would be "nice" if every qualifier for a National Contest might
seriously be ultimately envisioned as capable of competing for the podium at
the international levels. How to achieve that (if we assume it is possible) is
one (not THE) Big Question.

But the logical leap in-between your immediately-above two paragraphs is
(multiple choice): not patently obvious; breathtaking; illogical; unwarranted;
silly; ludicrous; etc.) Point being, to attempt to make a direct cause/effect
correlation between individual actions on the part of (SSA [e.g. a program],
an individual club [across the vast spectrum of the US and widely-varying
local circumstances], one person [acting on their opinions]) and the overall
health us U.S. soaring is at best hugely simplistic.

Lest I be accused of/dismissed as being a "naysayer" or some such, know
upfront that would be 100% incorrect. Au contraire, I consider reasoned
discussion a crucial part of intelligent, rational, illumination - and
ultimately definition - of a problem - *and* - associated decision making
designed to ameliorate or maybe even improve the situation.

Soaring (IMHO) is a wonderful, life-enhancing, sporting activity in which I've
enthusiastically (and gratefully) participated since discovering it
immediately post-college...and I sincerely hope it will continue to be long
after I am gone. Sailplane racing is (Duh!) a part of the sport.
Unquestionably - and I'll bet my retirement this is not an opinion held only
by me - while the health of sailplane racing in the U.S. would be enhanced by
an improvement in the health of sailplane racing, the correlation between the
health of sailplane racing in the U.S. and the health of *soaring* in the U.S.
is arguably very loose indeed.

May you have all the luck and good fortune you hope for in your quest to
improve the health of U.S. sailplane racing...and may - in that event - it
also prove to be more closely coupled to the overall health of U.S. soaring
than I suspect. But - I also suspect - making a greater effort to keep your
arguments (as distinct from opinions) focused, civil, mutually respectful (as
seen by both parties, not merely unilaterally), and excruciatingly non
ad-hominem will enhance the power of your arguments.

Respectfully,
Bob W.

[Tango Whisky]

So, I'm not interested in racing.
Why?

Well, for me the challenge is to go out and return the furthest possible. When I'm departing from Fayence in Southern France, that means that I take off, admire the sight of the ships on the Mediterrenean Sea, go to the north east for some 300-400 km straight (you need to pass acouple of mountain passes of which the lowest is around 7500 ft, the highest about 10'000 ft), you pass at least 2 different weather zones, you do ridge soaring at 12'000 ft above glaciers, you pass the Matterhorn along the way to Central Switzerland.

And then you turn back, if all works well you start final approach about 100 miles out, passing the last low mountain pass with a clearing of 500 ft, and you'll be arriving around 8 pm, admiring the big boats out on the sea again.

So, why the hell would I spend 10 days on a competition over some dull flat lands, flying half of the days, and half of the possible time on each flying day?!

I want to fly, and I need to make sure that the few vacations I can take result in the best flying experience.

That excludes racing by definition.

[[email protected]]

I, for one, am not interested in racing (but I admire those that do, and I do follow the results). I have 2,200 soaring hours (and another 2,500 in hang gliders) so I think I qualify as a reasonably experienced soaring pilot. I have competed exactly twice (in hang gliders) and I did not enjoy it.) I have also organized, run and scored many hang gliding contests, served on the competition committee of the USHGA and written rulebooks that are still in use.

When people ask why I do not compete, I tell them that I can make all the bad decisions I need without the help of a Contest Director. I know the person that posted the question is (or was) an avid sailing competitor. Once I heard another sailor say, "One sailboat is a pleasant pastime. Two boats are a race." I can see that, as two boats in proximity are using each other to evaluate the wind and conditions in order to maximize efficiency, and this gets competitive quickly.

Two sailplanes often are out of visual contact, and therefore the incentive is, for me at least, diminished. (Flarm leeching notwithstanding)

Basically, I like to fly in order to avoid yardwork, enjoy the scenery and challenge myself to utilize the best weather conditions for cross country flight. I also don't particularly enjoy outlandings. (Had enough adventures in the hang gliding days.) Apparently, this makes me socially unacceptable to Wilbur, but to tell you the truth, I don't care. I have plenty of soaring friends who agree, as well as a bunch of soaring friends who compete.

[Craig Reinholt]

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:53:51 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> You've said it best, there are lots of "tough nuts to crack."
>
> I very much respect that you are not in denial. Essentially your statistics show a decline of almost 50% in soaring. That's sad.
>
> In another 10 years, we will be lucky to even have the minimum entrants to have a race.
>
> I get it, not everyone likes racing. People own ferrari's but don't necessarily want to race them. There's the cost of repairs from a wreck, etc. Likewise, not everyone who owns an ASG-29 wants to take a couple weeks off or a national race.
>
> But we need to be asking those who are NOT interested in racing "Why are you not interested?"
>
> There you will find the answers.

Sean,
Say you're 42 years old glider pilot. Have a loving spouse. Two kids. $100,000 annual family income. Three weeks vacation. House payments, college savings account, Friday night pizza. How many families will burn 33% to 67% vacation time and a lot of money on a competition? How many of the spouses and children love to go to a hot, dusty, out of the way airport for said soaring getaway? Certainly, most would prefer to be on the beach in FL, HA, or perhaps Disney World/Land and would be very vocal in that decision. An understandable tough sell on the part of the glider pilot to attend the Nationals or even Regionals.
Competition.... consider other sports. How many high school basketball, baseball, or tennis players compete locally in leagues at 40+ years old? The percentage is low.
In my club, there are about 4% regular competition pilots. Because we've pushed cross country the past few years, we have raised the percentage of regular XC pilots from about 8% to 20%. The remaining pilots come out for an afternoon outing within gliding distance of the gliderport. That is all the the soaring they want to do.
Regarding competition, a few at the club will go for a few years and then not participate for a few years. No matter how hard we sell how fun competition is, the average XC pilot doesn't buy into it for a plethora of reasons which have already been stated in multiple threads on RAS.
Your enthusiasm for competition is understandable, but please put yourself first in the shoes of the average glider pilot when carrying on about contest participation.

[Renny[_2_]]

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 11:45:42 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> I, for one, am not interested in racing (but I admire those that do, and I do follow the results). I have 2,200 soaring hours (and another 2,500 in hang gliders) so I think I qualify as a reasonably experienced soaring pilot. I have competed exactly twice (in hang gliders) and I did not enjoy it.) I have also organized, run and scored many hang gliding contests, served on the competition committee of the USHGA and written rulebooks that are still in use.
>
> When people ask why I do not compete, I tell them that I can make all the bad decisions I need without the help of a Contest Director. I know the person that posted the question is (or was) an avid sailing competitor. Once I heard another sailor say, "One sailboat is a pleasant pastime. Two boats are a race." I can see that, as two boats in proximity are using each other to evaluate the wind and conditions in order to maximize efficiency, and this gets competitive quickly.
>
> Two sailplanes often are out of visual contact, and therefore the incentive is, for me at least, diminished. (Flarm leeching notwithstanding)
>
> Basically, I like to fly in order to avoid yardwork, enjoy the scenery and challenge myself to utilize the best weather conditions for cross country flight. I also don't particularly enjoy outlandings. (Had enough adventures in the hang gliding days.) Apparently, this makes me socially unacceptable to Wilbur, but to tell you the truth, I don't care. I have plenty of soaring friends who agree, as well as a bunch of soaring friends who compete.

What Mark said! In addition, I do not need:
1. the stress of contests
2. the significant additional costs of contests
3. to devote the many days required for a contest
4. the additional safety concerns of a contest
5. to fly in weak/marginal conditions that are often required in a contest

I really do have tremendous respect for those who compete and I closely follows contests, but it is just not something that personally interests me. I would much rather spend my time, money and effort flying OLC tasks with my friends!
Thanks - Renny

[Giaco]

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 2:01:31 PM UTC-5, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:53:51 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> > You've said it best, there are lots of "tough nuts to crack."
> >
> > I very much respect that you are not in denial. Essentially your statistics show a decline of almost 50% in soaring. That's sad.
> >
> > In another 10 years, we will be lucky to even have the minimum entrants to have a race.
> >
> > I get it, not everyone likes racing. People own ferrari's but don't necessarily want to race them. There's the cost of repairs from a wreck, etc.. Likewise, not everyone who owns an ASG-29 wants to take a couple weeks off or a national race.
> >
> > But we need to be asking those who are NOT interested in racing "Why are you not interested?"
> >
> > There you will find the answers.
>
> Sean,
> Say you're 42 years old glider pilot. Have a loving spouse. Two kids. $100,000 annual family income. Three weeks vacation. House payments, college savings account, Friday night pizza. How many families will burn 33% to 67% vacation time and a lot of money on a competition? How many of the spouses and children love to go to a hot, dusty, out of the way airport for said soaring getaway? Certainly, most would prefer to be on the beach in FL, HA, or perhaps Disney World/Land and would be very vocal in that decision. An understandable tough sell on the part of the glider pilot to attend the Nationals or even Regionals.
> Competition.... consider other sports. How many high school basketball, baseball, or tennis players compete locally in leagues at 40+ years old? The percentage is low.
> In my club, there are about 4% regular competition pilots. Because we've pushed cross country the past few years, we have raised the percentage of regular XC pilots from about 8% to 20%. The remaining pilots come out for an afternoon outing within gliding distance of the gliderport. That is all the the soaring they want to do.
> Regarding competition, a few at the club will go for a few years and then not participate for a few years. No matter how hard we sell how fun competition is, the average XC pilot doesn't buy into it for a plethora of reasons which have already been stated in multiple threads on RAS.
> Your enthusiasm for competition is understandable, but please put yourself first in the shoes of the average glider pilot when carrying on about contest participation.

Craig - Completly agree with your points, only exception is that those of us in what i refer to as the "dark ages" (21 to 55) of soaring are only the average because there are some 15 year olds kicking around to offset the retirees. After pondering this problem for a few years, I think that it is just unrealistic to expect any substantial number of "dark age" pilots with younger children and still working up up the job ladder to participate in the sport.

Many of the pilots in the "golden era" of soaring were able to experience the sport when there were more than 4-5 producers competing in soaring, the strength of the dollar was significantly higher, and society was far different. Those pilots and their immediate successors are in a large part the current nucleus of the sport, and seem to be largely unable to appreciate the difference in current economic and time constraints that the next generation faces.

[[email protected]]

The answer is obvious. We need a national fleet of loaner ASG 29s for dark age pilots. Buy the gliders and dark age pilots will race them.
On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 2:43:27 PM UTC-5, Giaco wrote:
> On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 2:01:31 PM UTC-5, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 9:53:51 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> > > You've said it best, there are lots of "tough nuts to crack."
> > >
> > > I very much respect that you are not in denial. Essentially your statistics show a decline of almost 50% in soaring. That's sad.
> > >
> > > In another 10 years, we will be lucky to even have the minimum entrants to have a race.
> > >
> > > I get it, not everyone likes racing. People own ferrari's but don't necessarily want to race them. There's the cost of repairs from a wreck, etc. Likewise, not everyone who owns an ASG-29 wants to take a couple weeks off or a national race.
> > >
> > > But we need to be asking those who are NOT interested in racing "Why are you not interested?"
> > >
> > > There you will find the answers.
> >
> > Sean,
> > Say you're 42 years old glider pilot. Have a loving spouse. Two kids. $100,000 annual family income. Three weeks vacation. House payments, college savings account, Friday night pizza. How many families will burn 33% to 67% vacation time and a lot of money on a competition? How many of the spouses and children love to go to a hot, dusty, out of the way airport for said soaring getaway? Certainly, most would prefer to be on the beach in FL, HA, or perhaps Disney World/Land and would be very vocal in that decision. An understandable tough sell on the part of the glider pilot to attend the Nationals or even Regionals.
> > Competition.... consider other sports. How many high school basketball, baseball, or tennis players compete locally in leagues at 40+ years old? The percentage is low.
> > In my club, there are about 4% regular competition pilots. Because we've pushed cross country the past few years, we have raised the percentage of regular XC pilots from about 8% to 20%. The remaining pilots come out for an afternoon outing within gliding distance of the gliderport. That is all the the soaring they want to do.
> > Regarding competition, a few at the club will go for a few years and then not participate for a few years. No matter how hard we sell how fun competition is, the average XC pilot doesn't buy into it for a plethora of reasons which have already been stated in multiple threads on RAS.
> > Your enthusiasm for competition is understandable, but please put yourself first in the shoes of the average glider pilot when carrying on about contest participation.
>
> Craig - Completly agree with your points, only exception is that those of us in what i refer to as the "dark ages" (21 to 55) of soaring are only the average because there are some 15 year olds kicking around to offset the retirees. After pondering this problem for a few years, I think that it is just unrealistic to expect any substantial number of "dark age" pilots with younger children and still working up up the job ladder to participate in the sport.
>
> Many of the pilots in the "golden era" of soaring were able to experience the sport when there were more than 4-5 producers competing in soaring, the strength of the dollar was significantly higher, and society was far different. Those pilots and their immediate successors are in a large part the current nucleus of the sport, and seem to be largely unable to appreciate the difference in current economic and time constraints that the next generation faces.

[Kevin Brooker]

Before sailplane racing can be great it must first be decent and viable. Great is a long way off. Great is the result. By focusing on the result will not achieve the goal. A goal is attained when we have a process and take an honest look at our assets and liabilities and are open to solution.

Does the sailplane community have a consensus definition of what a great contest is? There are probably as many unique answers as people responding. What might be a better questions is what are the components of a great contest? These can be real or fantastic wishes.

It is helpful to know why people fly contests too. Camaraderie; bragging rights; change of scenery; whatever they might wish.

Why do we hold contests? This matters too. The SSA was formed to hold a National contest to choose a National Champion; do we still need to do this and do we really care if we have a Champion. Team selections; do we need contests to do this and are contests the best way to prepare a team for international competition?


Does the contest model need to change? Maybe gathering in one place to fly and heading out OLC style to rack up as many miles as we can is the way to go; maybe not. Again, what are we trying to accomplish with a contest. Maybe this won’t prepare the US for international comps but do we really care and if not, why bend the contest model for potentially 10.000 pilots to suit the ambitions of ten?

The sailplane community must also become supportive of each other. As a group we can be pretty negative and are quick to point out the weak points of a glider, class, rule, etc.. Many ideas which are new and presented here are quickly ****ed upon. Denigrating or dismissing someone’s enthusiasm is a sure way to chase them off. Most of the negativity on this forum pertains to contests. If I was a new and interested contest pilot, reading this forum would help me decide to spend my time and money somewhere else.

Who are contests trying to attract? Pilots are an aging population and if we want to attract a younger generation having the FOGs make the rules and formats might be attractive to the old guys but not the twenty and thirty somethings.

Maybe the Junior Champions should be chosen with Condor. Put is online as viewer entertainment and we can all watch. E sport viewing is the fastest growing and most profitable sector of the entertainment industry. Find a sponsor and put up prize money and have a big time with it.

Maybe anyone, pilots and non-pilots, can enter and racing can take place at any time. The tasks and weather are pre determined and it can be flown whenever the pilot wishes. The weather will be fair, the gliders will be fair, the pilots can be comfortable and even stop the flight to eat, sleep, or use the bathroom.

Sailplane racing and even soaring as recreation might just be another niche activity.

I wish you the best of luck and skill in achieving your goal.

[[email protected]]

What a valid statement regarding the definition of great.

Here's my view of what a "Great" Sailplane race is.

1. A national contest for one class that is SOLD OUT, with a waiting list.

2. A contest so simple that you can explain how to win within 2 minutes or less to any pilot.

3. A national winner who competed against a group of 75 pilots in their class as opposed to a small elite group of 12 who now gets to represent the United States of America at the world contest.

4. A contest where you can watch this live on the internet and minute by minute see who is in first place.

5. A contest run so well their are activities and enjoyment for families to cheer on their pilot while he is up and away, and down on the ground. Very few pilots are single with no kids, theirs got to be "things to do" for the non aviators.

[Soartech]

If this was in fact a real problem then why are the first 2 contests on the SSA calendar SOLD OUT (over 60 pilots) with a waiting list???

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I tried to fly Nephi last year, but having been out of soaring for so long, I had no seeding points, denied. I am seriously thinking of Uvalde but six days on the road (3 there 3 back home) to fly 3 or 4 hours in the best part of the day, not as big a draw for me as Nephi fly-in or Parowan fly-in.

Perhaps if we had more "camps" and good soaring sites that would help participation in soaring in general which leads to more racing.


On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 6:44:54 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> What a valid statement regarding the definition of great.
>
> Here's my view of what a "Great" Sailplane race is.
>
> 1. A national contest for one class that is SOLD OUT, with a waiting list..
>
> 2. A contest so simple that you can explain how to win within 2 minutes or less to any pilot.
>
> 3. A national winner who competed against a group of 75 pilots in their class as opposed to a small elite group of 12 who now gets to represent the United States of America at the world contest.
>
> 4. A contest where you can watch this live on the internet and minute by minute see who is in first place.
>
> 5. A contest run so well their are activities and enjoyment for families to cheer on their pilot while he is up and away, and down on the ground. Very few pilots are single with no kids, theirs got to be "things to do" for the non aviators.

[Ron Gleason]

On Sunday, 5 March 2017 06:43:08 UTC-7, Kevin Brooker wrote:
> Before sailplane racing can be great it must first be decent and viable.
> Great is a long way off. Great is the result. By focusing on the result
> will not achieve the goal. A goal is attained when we have a process and
> take an honest look at our assets and liabilities and are open to
> solution.
>
> Does the sailplane community have a consensus definition of what a great
> contest is? There are probably as many unique answers as people
> responding. What might be a better questions is what are the components
> of a great contest? These can be real or fantastic wishes.
>
> It is helpful to know why people fly contests too. Camaraderie; bragging
> rights; change of scenery; whatever they might wish.
>
> Why do we hold contests? This matters too. The SSA was formed to hold a
> National contest to choose a National Champion; do we still need to do
> this and do we really care if we have a Champion. Team selections; do we
> need contests to do this and are contests the best way to prepare a team
> for international competition?
>
>
> Does the contest model need to change? Maybe gathering in one place to
> fly and heading out OLC style to rack up as many miles as we can is the
> way to go; maybe not. Again, what are we trying to accomplish with a
> contest. Maybe this won’t prepare the US for international comps but do
> we really care and if not, why bend the contest model for potentially
> 10.000 pilots to suit the ambitions of ten?
>
> The sailplane community must also become supportive of each other. As a
> group we can be pretty negative and are quick to point out the weak
> points of a glider, class, rule, etc.. Many ideas which are new and
> presented here are quickly ****ed upon. Denigrating or dismissing
> someone’s enthusiasm is a sure way to chase them off. Most of the
> negativity on this forum pertains to contests. If I was a new and
> interested contest pilot, reading this forum would help me decide to
> spend my time and money somewhere else.
>
> Who are contests trying to attract? Pilots are an aging population and
> if we want to attract a younger generation having the FOGs make the
> rules and formats might be attractive to the old guys but not the twenty
> and thirty somethings.
>
> Maybe the Junior Champions should be chosen with Condor. Put is online
> as viewer entertainment and we can all watch. E sport viewing is the
> fastest growing and most profitable sector of the entertainment
> industry. Find a sponsor and put up prize money and have a big time with
> it.
>
> Maybe anyone, pilots and non-pilots, can enter and racing can take place
> at any time. The tasks and weather are pre determined and it can be
> flown whenever the pilot wishes. The weather will be fair, the gliders
> will be fair, the pilots can be comfortable and even stop the flight to
> eat, sleep, or use the bathroom.
>
> Sailplane racing and even soaring as recreation might just be another
> niche activity.
>
> I wish you the best of luck and skill in achieving your goal.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kevin Brooker

Many well thought out points.

One side that many folks forget; what about the organizers? What is in it for them? Why do they do it? How can more locations come on line for contests, camps or fly-ins?

For me personally I have been involved with planning and running a few events; LOgan and Nephi UT and also scoring at Hobbs and the worlds in Uvalde. The SSA sanctioned regionals and nationals are difficult to run well and correctly due to many specialized resources needed to meet the rules requirements.

Is it best to focus on more participants or to get more locations? Also there are very few location in the West left holding SSA sanctioned events.

[Dan Marotta]

E-/_Sports _/- Hahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... ..

Sit in a chair, have a beer, get up and take a (to be civil) bathroom
beak, take a nap, continue the rugged contest to a hard-earned win!
You're a champ! Here's your participation trophy! But wait! He/She/It
had a faster computer than I did. I protest! It was unfair! I'm going
to my safe space...

But then I'm a FOG. What did you expect? Is it April 1 yet?

On 3/5/2017 6:21 AM, Kevin Brooker wrote:
> Before sailplane racing can be great it must first be decent and viable.
> Great is a long way off. Great is the result. By focusing on the result
> will not achieve the goal. A goal is attained when we have a process and
> take an honest look at our assets and liabilities and are open to
> solution.
>
> Does the sailplane community have a consensus definition of what a great
> contest is? There are probably as many unique answers as people
> responding. What might be a better questions is what are the components
> of a great contest? These can be real or fantastic wishes.
>
> It is helpful to know why people fly contests too. Camaraderie; bragging
> rights; change of scenery; whatever they might wish.
>
> Why do we hold contests? This matters too. The SSA was formed to hold a
> National contest to choose a National Champion; do we still need to do
> this and do we really care if we have a Champion. Team selections; do we
> need contests to do this and are contests the best way to prepare a team
> for international competition?
>
>
> Does the contest model need to change? Maybe gathering in one place to
> fly and heading out OLC style to rack up as many miles as we can is the
> way to go; maybe not. Again, what are we trying to accomplish with a
> contest. Maybe this won’t prepare the US for international comps but do
> we really care and if not, why bend the contest model for potentially
> 10.000 pilots to suit the ambitions of ten?
>
> The sailplane community must also become supportive of each other. As a
> group we can be pretty negative and are quick to point out the weak
> points of a glider, class, rule, etc.. Many ideas which are new and
> presented here are quickly ****ed upon. Denigrating or dismissing
> someone’s enthusiasm is a sure way to chase them off. Most of the
> negativity on this forum pertains to contests. If I was a new and
> interested contest pilot, reading this forum would help me decide to
> spend my time and money somewhere else.
>
> Who are contests trying to attract? Pilots are an aging population and
> if we want to attract a younger generation having the FOGs make the
> rules and formats might be attractive to the old guys but not the twenty
> and thirty somethings.
>
> Maybe the Junior Champions should be chosen with Condor. Put is online
> as viewer entertainment and we can all watch. E sport viewing is the
> fastest growing and most profitable sector of the entertainment
> industry. Find a sponsor and put up prize money and have a big time with
> it.
>
> Maybe anyone, pilots and non-pilots, can enter and racing can take place
> at any time. The tasks and weather are pre determined and it can be
> flown whenever the pilot wishes. The weather will be fair, the gliders
> will be fair, the pilots can be comfortable and even stop the flight to
> eat, sleep, or use the bathroom.
>
> Sailplane racing and even soaring as recreation might just be another
> niche activity.
>
> I wish you the best of luck and skill in achieving your goal.
>
>
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

5J,

Your proposal has been received and duly noted that: For those pilots racing via the condor app, they must submit a sealed, signed, notched, notarized statement from TWO Officials Observers that have at least 3 years experience working with the FAI to verify the processing speed of the computer.

A "fair" handicap for processor speeds will be applied to the scores after the race.

Further consideration will go to their respective joystick, and determine the penalties associated with that if the joystick has a vibration system to alert the pilot when entering a strong thermal (aka "the bump"), those systems will uniformly be given a 2% additional handicap.

Best ,

WW

[[email protected]]

Soartech,

Excellent point that 2 contests are filled up. Perhaps extreme listening should be given to what makes these races great?

But don't just stop your research there, look at the numbers from a broad sampling, not just a cherry pick of the two most popular in the entire USA.

Btw, neither of those two are a National contest. Sad.


Why does California, on of the greatest states in the Country, have a terrible turnout for racing? What gives out there? They have a dismal attendance for races. The state is so huge, and vast, and has often incredible conditions for 1,000 km flights!!!

[[email protected]]

I believe it's possible to get a financing mechanism in place that allows for clubs and/or consortiums to purchase a glider without a guarantor if the have say 50% equity in a glider. Moreover, if more clubs had club class ships available for rent (for xc or regional contest use) then the dark ages problem might be somewhat alleviated.

[Kevin Brooker]

Making sailplanes available through electronic contests might work. Run a national contest for non pilots. Use current racing tasks and invent a few more. Who can enclose the most area in two hours etc. Run the contest and the winner gets glider time at the airport of their choosing.

The idea of e sports can be tried, tasks experimented with, and we might just find a few new pilots.

I know nothing about Condor or any other sailplane sims but find the idea intriguing.

With a bit of help I'm interested in exploring this idea.

[Dan Marotta]

Ah... The closer we get to 4/1 the better this gets! Keep it coming,
Wil. I'd also suggest you create and submit a design for the
Participation Trophy and provide a rendering for all of us to see and
comment upon. I suggest it should be at least 6 feet tall to provide
space for all of the participants who will all, of course, be champions.

On 3/6/2017 8:43 PM, wrote:
> 5J,
>
> Your proposal has been received and duly noted that: For those pilots racing via the condor app, they must submit a sealed, signed, notched, notarized statement from TWO Officials Observers that have at least 3 years experience working with the FAI to verify the processing speed of the computer.
>
> A "fair" handicap for processor speeds will be applied to the scores after the race.
>
> Further consideration will go to their respective joystick, and determine the penalties associated with that if the joystick has a vibration system to alert the pilot when entering a strong thermal (aka "the bump"), those systems will uniformly be given a 2% additional handicap.
>
> Best ,
>
> WW

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Article on a race car driver that came from race car gaming.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/meet-the-gran-turismo-player-now-driving-race-cars-for-real/1100-6419397/
The horror the horror

[[email protected]]

I am sure that all of you who advocate "making gliders available" to these upcoming e-pilots are talking about donating your own personal aircraft, and not assuming that someone else is doing so. Put up or shut up.

Only one post on this thread even mentioned the organizers. They are the ones who bear the brunt and take the blame when a contest does not live up to the standards of the exalted few. Of course, they do it for the money, which must be all of about two bucks after the thing is over.

[Kevin Brooker]

Greg. Interesting article and most likely not the only one. It is a good model to follow. Thanks for pointing it out.

Sailplane racing and recreational flying is dying as we know it. To date, other attempts to revive it have had minimal success so what is the harm of trying a different avenue? What is the fear? It might succeed despite traditionalist's best efforts at keeping the sports comfortable for traditionalists. If this was the case think about TP cameras and how GPS allowed the sport to evolve. Without people willing to challenge the establishment sports stagnate and die.

Motorheads who have traditionally hopped up cars from the 50-70's didn't take motorheads who swap chips seriously. Look at the success of drifting. According to some, modern hot rodding isn't legit. Enough people have an interest in getting extra power from an engine and smoking tires that drifting is a multi million dollar sport. How many modern cars sport carbon muffler cans and aftermarket rear deck wings?

Using the E platform to bring any aviation into the public eye is great. We might not have great contests for a few years but we might.

Making contests great again might also be making the organizer's job more fun. I have worked the gate (I remember them fondly),retrieve desk, and as an official for an international contest and have real world experience with what a thankless job it is. I've also been crew which is a ton of work.

Maybe we, pilots, make contests fun for those who run them and they will work to make it fun for the pilots. Contest pilots might be going about this backwards. Make contests fun for everyone. This has been mentioned in prior replies and I wholeheartedly agree. Why not have trailer backing contests and some sort of fun glider related tasks for crew members? Pilot was DFL for the contest but the crew took home the trophy. Stuff for them to do at the airport besides wait around for a phone to ring. Those days were good for the team but kinda sucked as crew. Retrieves were always an adventure and I remember many more good retrieve stories then flight stories.

When flying contests, I always flew better when the rest of my team was having a good time.

Contests with a great reputation had something special about them. Good feeds; interesting destinations; stuff for crews to do when the flying was going on; stuff to do when the wx was garbage and it was a no fly day. The Seniors take a day off so the pilots can dote on the crew. Great idea.

The flying part of contests is driven by the weather which is out of our control. What can we control to make a contest great?

[[email protected]]

Le samedi 4 mars 2017 11:17:12 UTC-5, a écritÂ*:
> You will only improve if you are honest with yourself and admit your weaknesses. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A tow rope looses 50% of its strength with a knot it in.
>
> For those who have tasted flight, their eyes will be forever turned skyward. And for those who have tasted the excitement of racing alongside another sailplane, they will forever want to compete. Sailplane racing is a sport in which a 16 year old can compete against an 86 year old. It is the most pure form of aviation that exists. Hot air ballooning, helicopters, power aircraft to gyrocopters, can quickly reach a state where you feel you have mastered that craft. With Soaring, it takes a lifetime, an endless pursuit of winning a challeng that is always changing with the winds.
>
> What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?
>
> My opinion is that the complexities of the game have become too overwhelming it takes the fun away.
>
> Back in the old days, it was as simple as who can fly the furthest downwind. That's simple to understand.
>
> Technology, spot tracking, no more cameras at the points have changed our sport, but is it really for the better? Are we embracing these technological advancements to rise our sport or has it been used to demise our sport?
>
> More than often in the past decade have we seen dismal turnouts for classes. 12 pilots for the standard class national championship showed up! That's pathetic!
>
> It makes me wonder, does the SSA leadership want a sold out contest? Or do they want a small turnout to reduce the competition they face? Actions speak louder than words! Or is it that this has become a good old boys club and we want to keep it small like a gentlemens hunting club.
>
> It's shocking that a pilot can get a rating, buy a glider and finish last place in a regional contest and then with minimal qualifications qualify for a National Contest!
>
> This alone clearly shows that what has been done to keep the sport the same size, or increase its participation levels has been a failure.

Sailplane racing was never great. With twice the membership you had twice the number of racing participant.
Gilles, starting my 49th season.

[[email protected]]

Craig,

Very well put. You forgot that fact he also has 2 sailplanes (I think). At least had 2 sailplanes to fly.

I have been around soaring for 35 years, and have competed, but it was not my thing to do, but I enjoy the camaraderie of soaring contests. I admire those who also can compete and get the job done.

Another factor, that I have not read yet, is that we have out priced soaring to an average naysayer. While the Sports class has do much to keep the average guy flying and competing. However, if you truly want to compete at the highest level and at an international level, you have to own and equip a $125,000+ sailplane, and that can easily be $200,000+ if you desire the best with an engine. What average guy has that money laying around for a sailplane, or what college student or graduate has that kind of money to compete at the highest levels?

Like Sean, I have a deep passion for the sport, a dying sport. I enjoy showing and giving rides to friends and curious naysayers, that might stumble onto the field on a given weekend day. Many of the people at my club, do not have a clue about the real amazing things about the sport of Soaring. As they never fly more than 5 miles away and make their flights and go home. They see some guys in high priced gliders take off at noon and come back at sunset, but do not stick around to help and ask questions at the end of the day. Because they don't see themselves at that level, because it is too expensive for them, and their wallets. While these guys and gals are flying, they are not interested in flying more, because they see it as too expensive.

I am not who said it above, but also the fact that some guy gets some money and goes out and buys an ASG29, and then in two years, is competing at a National level... Really? I would like to see more emphasis put back on Regionals, but saying that you can not compete at a Nationals unless you have a XX (82 - 85.00+) ranking. So you won't have a guy with a 56.00 ranking competing at National level, until he has flown a number of regionals and has perfected his skills and knowledge, and is able to truly compete with the "Major League" pilots. While I understand that there is still an issue with some sites getting limited participation. Hopefully this will put more participation for the Regional level, and might thin out some of the over participation in a National event (aka Uvalde). That's my 2 cents. See you at the GP.

[Dan Marotta]

....and the chicks, Mark. Don't forget the chicks!

On 3/7/2017 12:25 PM, wrote:
> I am sure that all of you who advocate "making gliders available" to these upcoming e-pilots are talking about donating your own personal aircraft, and not assuming that someone else is doing so. Put up or shut up.
>
> Only one post on this thread even mentioned the organizers. They are the ones who bear the brunt and take the blame when a contest does not live up to the standards of the exalted few. Of course, they do it for the money, which must be all of about two bucks after the thing is over.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Bring racing numbers back? Simple.

Just go resurrect Charlie Spratt.

[Sierra Whiskey]

FWIW,

I do enjoy racing and want to see sailplane racing gain popularity in the US. I enjoy the challenge of utilizing the same course and weather to measure speed and performance. I like to think that one day I will be fast enough to qualify for a spot on a world team. (Dream Big!)

This in mind, I will not likely be able to race for many years. Some of the reasons to follow:
1) A National Contest is 10 days in length, plus travel time to and from the contest. I currently get 7 days off per year and will eventually build up to 10 days per year.
2) My wife is my biggest supporter and loves to see me fly. Contests are boring for her, and the contest locations are typically lackluster. She does not see a soaring contest as a vacation thus she does not want to go with me. Additionally she understandably does not want me to spend my vacation days on a soaring contest only.

So for me, the decision to not compete is limited by time and location primarily. I want to compete, but the feasibility is non-existent, thus I will probably be an OLC warrior for a few years. I like the encouragement to increase participation, however I tend to understand why the racing demographics tend to involve more people who are senior in their careers and less between 20 and 40 years old. Quite possibly why junior member participation levels are quite low too.

In my perfect world, there would be two nationals each year for each class. (West and East) the Nationals would be 6 days long (Monday to Saturday) with room to travel on a weekend on each end. Locations would be selected based on optimal positioning for 1 day travel to and from each venue. This would be more feasible for attracting larger crowds to the National Contests, but I fear it looks too much like a regional. Maybe regionals should be 3 days long, over a weekend?

[Dave Walsh]

7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change
jobs or emigrate.
Is this normal for America?
Dave Walsh

[krasw]

keskiviikko 8. maaliskuuta 2017 12.45.07 UTC+2 Dave Walsh kirjoitti:
> 7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change
> jobs or emigrate.
> Is this normal for America?
> Dave Walsh

And I'm thinking my annual 5 weeks holiday is not enough for serious flying...

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, March 7, 2017 at 8:43:08 PM UTC-5, Kevin Brooker wrote:

> Sailplane racing and recreational flying is dying as we know it.

Get the log out of your own eye.

-Evan Ludeman

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Way back, last time I was active glider pilot, we had Region 12 contest spread over two weekends. When I returned to flying I was looking forward to competing close to home and with little time off from work to fly this contest one would think this would be well attended. Instead, if I am right, the last time there was a region 12 contest was 2009. When was the last time there was a contest in AZ (region 9?). If you want to make racing popular again you must have a strong regional showing or at least have regional contests available.

And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to workers between America and other 1st world nations.

Back when I had my law office and support staff, if I was not in the office the work did not get done so I was limited to the occasional three day weekend and odd days off when the weather was booming.

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:45:07 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
> 7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change
> jobs or emigrate.
> Is this normal for America?
> Dave Walsh

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:58:17 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Way back, last time I was active glider pilot, we had Region 12 contest spread over two weekends. When I returned to flying I was looking forward to competing close to home and with little time off from work to fly this contest one would think this would be well attended. Instead, if I am right, the last time there was a region 12 contest was 2009. When was the last time there was a contest in AZ (region 9?). If you want to make racing popular again you must have a strong regional showing or at least have regional contests available.
>
> And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to workers between America and other 1st world nations.
>
> Back when I had my law office and support staff, if I was not in the office the work did not get done so I was limited to the occasional three day weekend and odd days off when the weather was booming.
>
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:45:07 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
> > 7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change
> > jobs or emigrate.
> > Is this normal for America?
> > Dave Walsh

Split contests over 2 weekends have some real benefits, and some trade offs..
Benefits
Pilots can participate using little vacation time.
Can encourage the local population to give it a try.
Possibly incrased activity for local operation.
Trade offs
Hurts participation of pilots further away due to affect of double travel.
Ties up 2 weekends of supporting operation.
Getting enough days means some vacation use and \may limit local practice time for some pilots.
We have done it both in R2N at Wurtsboro. I expect we will go the split weekend route next time.
FWIW
UH

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 7:23:48 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:58:17 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > Way back, last time I was active glider pilot, we had Region 12 contest spread over two weekends. When I returned to flying I was looking forward to competing close to home and with little time off from work to fly this contest one would think this would be well attended. Instead, if I am right, the last time there was a region 12 contest was 2009. When was the last time there was a contest in AZ (region 9?). If you want to make racing popular again you must have a strong regional showing or at least have regional contests available.
> >
> > And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to workers between America and other 1st world nations.
> >
> > Back when I had my law office and support staff, if I was not in the office the work did not get done so I was limited to the occasional three day weekend and odd days off when the weather was booming.
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:45:07 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
> > > 7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change
> > > jobs or emigrate.
> > > Is this normal for America?
> > > Dave Walsh
>
> Split contests over 2 weekends have some real benefits, and some trade offs.
> Benefits
> Pilots can participate using little vacation time.
> Can encourage the local population to give it a try.
> Possibly incrased activity for local operation.
> Trade offs
> Hurts participation of pilots further away due to affect of double travel..
> Ties up 2 weekends of supporting operation.
> Getting enough days means some vacation use and \may limit local practice time for some pilots.
> We have done it both in R2N at Wurtsboro. I expect we will go the split weekend route next time.
> FWIW
> UH

Agree with Hank on this issue. You really need an active racing community within a few hours drive to support split weekend contests. For instance, it makes no sense to have sites like Nephi or Uvalde running a weekend format.. Also, if you have local critical mass you may be able to support a summer racing series. These tend to be lower key events with less infrastructure and support needed. I've most often seen them run by commercial operations, but probably not impossible for clubs to do.

One attractive feature is these contests tend to be scored on a best N/2 basis for each pilot (where N is the total number of days flown). This means individual pilots have considerable flexibility on schedule. Thinking out loud, I wonder whether we should give more recognition and support to these types of events.

On spectators. It would be nice if we could all bask in the glory of having a dozen or two spectators watching us race in real time online (IIRC the last US GP contest had live streaming of the event - how many real-time spectators were there? I heard a number, but it was second-hand info).

I do wonder if the biggest challenge is making glider racing more logistically and financially accessible to pilots rather than attracting spectators. I'm also in favor of the simplest rules possible, but here too, most of the complaints you hear are about fairness and ability to compete on a level playing field. The fairness comments fade a lot every time you get specific..

Nevertheless, we keep soliciting feedback from pilots on simplification of rules - some of it pretty radical. For example, no devaluation, which is the biggest source of complexity and confusion in rules and scoring. I personally proposed this at the rules meeting at last year's Std/15M/Open Nationals. The feedback was significant opposition, so it's an uphill journey - even with top-ranked pilots. I proposed elimination MAT tasks. Also strong negative feedback. I don't mind an uphill battle, but success isn't walking over the opposition, you need to bring people with you. In a sport where you struggle for participation, authoritarian approaches based on minority viewpoints probably won't have the desired outcome - assuming the desired outcome is building participation.

Despite all that, there is a proposal on the table right now to get rid of pretty much all of devaluation formulas in the rules at the WGC level. It would have helped out at least one of the US pilots at the WGC in Benalla quite a bit - also the Jonkers brothers who had one terrible day in an otherwise impressive contest performance. I'd personally favor this change, but to be clear, doing that will make at best a tiny difference in terms of overall racing participation. Rules complexity is way down the list in terms of what any thoughtful, fact-based assessment reveals about why there are fewer glider pilots and fewer glider racers (many of those reasons have been well-described here). Task format is also relatively low among all the features that pilots point to in terms of what makes the rules hard to understand. In fact there is generally broad support for formats that increase flexibility in tasking rather than restrict it, particularly at the Regional level but at the National level too. Of course there are one or two (depending on how you count screen names) notable exceptions to that support.

If we are talking about taking action to improve participation and enjoyment of glider racing, the most important consideration is the Pareto principle. Without that we will spin our wheels on hobby horse theories and personal assertions that will consume energy and have little - or even negative - impact. This is a hard enough problem to address as it is, focusing on the important things is important.

Andy Blackburn
9B

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 5:45:07 AM UTC-5, Dave Walsh wrote:
> 7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change
> jobs or emigrate.
> Is this normal for America?
> Dave Walsh

No it is not.

[Andrzej Kobus]

Really a week or two? Everyone I know has a few weeks of vacation per year. I am not sure where you get the information from, or maybe your statement applies to 20% of US population.

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:58:17 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Way back, last time I was active glider pilot, we had Region 12 contest spread over two weekends. When I returned to flying I was looking forward to competing close to home and with little time off from work to fly this contest one would think this would be well attended. Instead, if I am right, the last time there was a region 12 contest was 2009. When was the last time there was a contest in AZ (region 9?). If you want to make racing popular again you must have a strong regional showing or at least have regional contests available.
>
> And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to workers between America and other 1st world nations.
>
> Back when I had my law office and support staff, if I was not in the office the work did not get done so I was limited to the occasional three day weekend and odd days off when the weather was booming.
>
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:45:07 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
> > 7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change
> > jobs or emigrate.
> > Is this normal for America?
> > Dave Walsh

[[email protected]]

Andy's well-written and thoughtful response is an example of what RAS is supposed to be. Unfortunately, input like this has become very rare- overtaken by rants and snide comments as the thread drifts into oblivion. Thanks, Andy!

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Wed, 08 Mar 2017 11:37:25 -0800, andy wrote:

> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 7:23:48 AM UTC-8,
> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:58:17 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud
>> wrote:
>> > Way back, last time I was active glider pilot, we had Region 12
>> > contest spread over two weekends. When I returned to flying I was
>> > looking forward to competing close to home and with little time off
>> > from work to fly this contest one would think this would be well
>> > attended. Instead, if I am right, the last time there was a region
>> > 12 contest was 2009. When was the last time there was a contest in
>> > AZ (region 9?). If you want to make racing popular again you must
>> > have a strong regional showing or at least have regional contests
>> > available.
>> >
>> > And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a
>> > year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also
>> > have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister
>> > just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job
>> > has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to
>> > workers between America and other 1st world nations.
>> >
>> > Back when I had my law office and support staff, if I was not in the
>> > office the work did not get done so I was limited to the occasional
>> > three day weekend and odd days off when the weather was booming.
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 2:45:07 AM UTC-8, Dave Walsh wrote:
>> > > 7 days annual holiday! That's appalling, you need to change jobs or
>> > > emigrate.
>> > > Is this normal for America?
>> > > Dave Walsh
>>
>> Split contests over 2 weekends have some real benefits, and some trade
>> offs.
>> Benefits Pilots can participate using little vacation time.
>> Can encourage the local population to give it a try.
>> Possibly incrased activity for local operation.
>> Trade offs Hurts participation of pilots further away due to affect of
>> double travel.
>> Ties up 2 weekends of supporting operation.
>> Getting enough days means some vacation use and \may limit local
>> practice time for some pilots. We have done it both in R2N at
>> Wurtsboro. I expect we will go the split weekend route next time.
>> FWIW UH
>
> Agree with Hank on this issue. You really need an active racing
> community within a few hours drive to support split weekend contests.
> For instance, it makes no sense to have sites like Nephi or Uvalde
> running a weekend format. Also, if you have local critical mass you may
> be able to support a summer racing series. These tend to be lower key
> events with less infrastructure and support needed. I've most often seen
> them run by commercial operations, but probably not impossible for clubs
> to do.
>
> One attractive feature is these contests tend to be scored on a best N/2
> basis for each pilot (where N is the total number of days flown). This
> means individual pilots have considerable flexibility on schedule.
> Thinking out loud, I wonder whether we should give more recognition and
> support to these types of events.
>
> On spectators. It would be nice if we could all bask in the glory of
> having a dozen or two spectators watching us race in real time online
> (IIRC the last US GP contest had live streaming of the event - how many
> real-time spectators were there? I heard a number, but it was
> second-hand info).
>
> I do wonder if the biggest challenge is making glider racing more
> logistically and financially accessible to pilots rather than attracting
> spectators. I'm also in favor of the simplest rules possible, but here
> too, most of the complaints you hear are about fairness and ability to
> compete on a level playing field. The fairness comments fade a lot every
> time you get specific.
>
> Nevertheless, we keep soliciting feedback from pilots on simplification
> of rules - some of it pretty radical. For example, no devaluation, which
> is the biggest source of complexity and confusion in rules and scoring.
> I personally proposed this at the rules meeting at last year's
> Std/15M/Open Nationals. The feedback was significant opposition, so it's
> an uphill journey - even with top-ranked pilots. I proposed elimination
> MAT tasks. Also strong negative feedback. I don't mind an uphill battle,
> but success isn't walking over the opposition, you need to bring people
> with you. In a sport where you struggle for participation, authoritarian
> approaches based on minority viewpoints probably won't have the desired
> outcome - assuming the desired outcome is building participation.
>
> Despite all that, there is a proposal on the table right now to get rid
> of pretty much all of devaluation formulas in the rules at the WGC
> level. It would have helped out at least one of the US pilots at the WGC
> in Benalla quite a bit - also the Jonkers brothers who had one terrible
> day in an otherwise impressive contest performance. I'd personally favor
> this change, but to be clear, doing that will make at best a tiny
> difference in terms of overall racing participation. Rules complexity is
> way down the list in terms of what any thoughtful, fact-based assessment
> reveals about why there are fewer glider pilots and fewer glider racers
> (many of those reasons have been well-described here). Task format is
> also relatively low among all the features that pilots point to in terms
> of what makes the rules hard to understand. In fact there is generally
> broad support for formats that increase flexibility in tasking rather
> than restrict it, particularly at the Regional level but at the National
> level too. Of course there are one or two (depending on how you count
> screen names) notable exceptions to that support.
>
> If we are talking about taking action to improve participation and
> enjoyment of glider racing, the most important consideration is the
> Pareto principle. Without that we will spin our wheels on hobby horse
> theories and personal assertions that will consume energy and have
> little - or even negative - impact. This is a hard enough problem to
> address as it is, focusing on the important things is important.
>
I'm a little surprised that, apart from the single long-standing inter-
club contest on the East Coast (President's Cup? NY/New England area?)
nobody seems to have tried a similar format to the Inter Club League we
run in the UK:

- single weekend comps, two entries per club in three experience levels
- about six clubs in each local group
- typically three weekend comps run during the soaring season,
each on a different club's field
- winning club from each local group goes forward to a national comp
which is run to the same format.

This would seem to hit most of your buttons - minimal time/travel/cost
(you can usually drive home between days or camp on the field) and
minimal organisation beyond typical club flying apart from task setting
and scoring because no start/finish gates are used.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I got this information from personal experience in the fields of Engineering and Law. When I start in both of those fields I received 5 days of paid vacation. Worked my way up to ten days of paid vacation. Below is a link to bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

[[email protected]]

Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.

Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.

-Doug

[Bruce Hoult]

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 5:58:17 PM UTC+3, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> And yes, Dave, Americans typically only have one or two weeks off a year. Very rare to see anyone have three weeks a year off. We also have many full time jobs that do not pay a living wage. My sister just returned from living in Australia for 5 years where every job has a living wage, big difference in cultures when if comes to workers between America and other 1st world nations.

This is one of the biggest reasons I hesitate to work in the USA. When I did a stint with Mozilla I made sure I was officially employed by the NZ office, not the Mountain View one, for this and other reasons.

Here in Moscow the law says you get 28 days a year. That's a little bit of a lie because the law also says your approved vacation plan submitted (to the appropriate government department) in December each year should have a vacation of at least 14 consecutive calendar days, which uses 4 of your "vacation" days in weekends. So it's really more like 24 days. Fitting those around the usual 10 or so public holidays every country has lets you stretch it to six weeks -- this year I have planned one two week (three weekends) vacation, plus four one week (two weekends) vacations.

Plus you get the whole week after New Year off, for free (not using vacation days), so work this year started on Jan 9th and last year on Jan 11.

[[email protected]]

Big bucket of truth right there
On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 12:22:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
>
> Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
> Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.
>
> -Doug

[Tango Eight]

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 12:22:20 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
>
> Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
> Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.
>
> -Doug

You (that's any of you... specifically some of you at the seniors) fund it, I'll do it.

Evan Ludeman / T8

[Bruce Hoult]

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 8:22:20 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
>
> Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33.

What a choice!

When I agreed to become an instructor it meant that I got to sit in the back of a DG1000 all day and do four or five or eight flights (and tows!) with freedom to experiment to see which parts of the sky were working that day. The "delux" trial lessons, especially, with 4000 ft tows leaving you about 15 km from the field, meant that you could safely venture another 10 km away and still get back, no problem, even if you didn't find lift and even with the novice doing most of the flying. They got a good sight-seeing flight, plenty of stick time to experiment, an appreciation for how far a glider can go, and I got to explore and hone my skills (planning more than stick admittedly). Win, win, win.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 11:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
>
> Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
> Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.
>
> -Doug

Doug, beating up on US clubs maybe en vogue but doesn't come close to the truth. As a member of 2 clubs that own ASK-21's, a Duo, an ASW-24, LS6 and LS4's we promote x-country flying and beg members to use these assets. We also have competent competition pilots to show them the ropes. Maligning the US club culture is not helping, how about you working on improving it?
Herb

[[email protected]]

How much basic instruction do you do down there Herbert? How many days a week do you fly? From what I see you guys only do add on comercial, add on private students and only fly a hand full of days per month. I would argue that CGC is indeed a good example in many metrics, but it is an outlier and far from perfect. I don't bash US clubs because it is "en vouge", Sean, I mean Wilber asked why sailplane racing is in decline. From my point of view the decline is largely due to a lack of viable path ways for the 0 time pilot. X/C is still seen as exotic by the wind sock warriors because they are led by the blind and forced to ride a lame horse.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 6:02:54 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 11:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> > A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
> >
> > Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
> > Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.
> >
> > -Doug
>
> Doug, beating up on US clubs maybe en vogue but doesn't come close to the truth. As a member of 2 clubs that own ASK-21's, a Duo, an ASW-24, LS6 and LS4's we promote x-country flying and beg members to use these assets. We also have competent competition pilots to show them the ropes. Maligning the US club culture is not helping, how about you working on improving it?

I had the pleasure of taking a flight in a Duo at CGC in 2001 when I was thinking of taking a job in Chicago. It certainly looked like a fine setup.

However it didn't strike me as typical of US clubs, on my journeys around....

[[email protected]]

I would agree that CGC is indeed a good example in many metrics, but it is an outlier and far from perfect. You guys have turned away 0 time pilots for years, and the equipment stays in the hangar on far too many days. I don't bash US clubs because it is "en vouge", Sean, I mean Wilber asked why sailplane racing is in decline. From my point of view the decline is largely due to a lack of viable path ways for the 0 time pilot. X/C is still seen as exotic by the wind sock warriors because they are led by the blind and forced to ride a lame horse.
Your comment suggesting I try to improve things instead of complaining is way off the mark. You know full well I am a contributor, and you've only seen the tip of the iceberg. This culture you don't know you're defending works AGAINST progress in the direction of high performance aircraft and soaring. I might have left SSI for a club like yours 20 years ago but I feel my club is worth saving.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:02:54 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 11:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> > A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
> >
> > Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
> > Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.
> >
> > -Doug
>
> Doug, beating up on US clubs maybe en vogue but doesn't come close to the truth. As a member of 2 clubs that own ASK-21's, a Duo, an ASW-24, LS6 and LS4's we promote x-country flying and beg members to use these assets. We also have competent competition pilots to show them the ropes. Maligning the US club culture is not helping, how about you working on improving it?
> Herb

Being an armchair critic requires 15 seconds. Being a builder of the sport requires a lifetime of commitment.
Our club does primary in 2-33's (gasp), advanced in ASK-21. We teach XC in both.
We have 2 1-26's and a 1-34 for solo XC. Our Juniors have their own 1-26 and Std Libelle for XC. Three,possibly four of our juniors will fly in contests this year, with some others doing contest "riding" where they fly the task assisted by an experienced contest pilot.
Harris Hill does the same, except their juniors have a Discus.
FWIW
UH

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

>> Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't
>> soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k
>> investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor
>> certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this
>> is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to
>> buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless
>> they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of
>> wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced
>> instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the
>> sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because
>> it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c.
>> They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the
>> higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves
>> to become x/c proficient. Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do
>> you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it
>> out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If
>> you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high
>> performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of
>> itself.

Other than desiring soaring's future health to be (at the very least) no worse
than it is today, I have no skin in the soaring racing game...though I *do*
maintain a 'following interest' in soaring competitions.

The (U.S.) club to which I belong has long-owned a DG-505 and a Discus at the
'performance top' of its fleet, has long-/actively-encouraged XC (in club
ships), and is currently contemplating exchanging the last of its G-103s for
'something else' (TBD, and presumably more modern, and of higher performance).

I've a hard time identifying with broad-brush bashing of 'U.S. club/instructor
culture' for several reasons:

1) I know for a fact my club isn't the only one of similar
philosophic/club/fleet structure in the States, therefore such '2-33 and
instructor-based bashing,' is demonstrably inaccurate (though I suppose it
does allow one comfort in simplistic, pre-conceived notions).

2) It also ignores a host of other, human-nature and economic-realities-based
issues impacting sailplane competition.

Analogies and comparisons are always imperfect, but - so far - no one has
drawn an aviation-based one, so I will: closed course speed racing. Arguably,
the proportion of GA pilots participating at Reno (continually going on since
the '60s, for the past few years viewable-with real-time commentary on the
web, and before then occasionally even on subscriptionless, over-the-air,
network-based TV) is no higher than soaring's competitive contingent, i.e.
'small.' Jets and hopped-up ex-WW-II airframes are at one end of the available
classes, highly-restricted 200-cubic-inch-engined Formula I and homebuilt
bipes another. And, some 'soaring nuts' also participate in power-plane racing
activities, to the point (even!) of owner-operated, seriously-recognized (and
presumably profitable), business-based concerns! And while there may be babes
hanging around the periphery of some of power-plane racing classes, somehow I
doubt they're the fundamental sustaining interest in participating. And
yet...very few 'mass market people' follow (are even aware of?) the activity,
and far fewer actively participate in it.

The point attempting to be made here, is that - in today's world - fans
semi-actively participating in 'attracts the masses' *racing* pretty much
isn't a reality in other than niche markets of automobile racing (NASCAR;
Formula I; CART; WEC; etc.), bicycle racing (arguably country-specific and
scandal-riddled), and America's Cup boat racing. I may have missed a sport or
two, but a little critical thought should lead a person toward the conclusion
that mass-spectator-engaged racing, and mass-participation-racing (with
associated spectators), simply isn't ever likely for soaring, given human
nature. And that's *without* considering any other factors at all, e.g. time,
money, etc.

That said, in no way do I wish to discourage anyone from indulging their
interest (or interests) in sailplane racing (I've attended several contests
just because I could, and twice as a crew), or even seeking to grow the
activity. More power to everyone so inclined! I'm merely hoping to keep stuff
like 'RAS commentary' and 'personal visions/hopes' more or less 'within
sensible boundaries.' Visionaries often help advance all manner of human
endeavor (and, arguably, just as often fail miserably...as the history of
aviation amply demonstrates). I simply am of the opinion that 'more or less
reality-based visions' are more likely to accomplish measurable positive
progress than those based upon wishful thinking or casual,
arguably-unsubstantial, denigration.

Respectfully,
Bob W.

[Papa3[_2_]]

Just to build on this... Our little slice of the world (eastern Region 2) generates contest participation disproportionate to our size and especially to our soaring conditions. Why? It's because 3 or 4 sites are committed to building/fostering an active XC community. Without an active XC community, you can't have racing.

At Aero Club Albatross for example, we push people out of the nest early on. Once they get a Silver distance (in a 1-26), they have access to a 1-34R. After the 1-34, they can move into an LS3 or an LS4. Oh, and we've refurbished 2 of the 3 glass birds from basket cases to like-new condition ourselves. It's not due to some top-down mandate but rather a culture that's been formed over decades.

Now, we have clubs at Randall (UH's group) and Brandywine (Philadelphia area) to compete against thanks to similarly driven and growing clubs.

Message: Think global. Act local. It's actually not that hard . It just takes a few people who will abandon the keyboard and actually go out and do stuff.

Erik Mann
Refinisher-in-Chief, ACA



On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 11:13:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:02:54 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 11:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > > Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> > > A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
> > >
> > > Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
> > > Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.
> > >
> > > -Doug
> >
> > Doug, beating up on US clubs maybe en vogue but doesn't come close to the truth. As a member of 2 clubs that own ASK-21's, a Duo, an ASW-24, LS6 and LS4's we promote x-country flying and beg members to use these assets. We also have competent competition pilots to show them the ropes. Maligning the US club culture is not helping, how about you working on improving it?
> > Herb
>
> Being an armchair critic requires 15 seconds. Being a builder of the sport requires a lifetime of commitment.
> Our club does primary in 2-33's (gasp), advanced in ASK-21. We teach XC in both.
> We have 2 1-26's and a 1-34 for solo XC. Our Juniors have their own 1-26 and Std Libelle for XC. Three,possibly four of our juniors will fly in contests this year, with some others doing contest "riding" where they fly the task assisted by an experienced contest pilot.
> Harris Hill does the same, except their juniors have a Discus.
> FWIW
> UH

[[email protected]]

I transitioned from power to glider, am in my 30's, and would like to compete. That might put me into the "sweet spot" of folks who are good candidates to bolster contest participation. Here are my thoughts.

You can change the rules to try to increase participation. But I don't think it'll help. Public exposure to soaring is just plain low. Few people know about it, few people dream of it, and few people understand it. The wide end of the funnel isn't catching enough people.

I think the sport needs to think hard about how to engage young, adventurous engineers, who are a great demographic in many ways. Soaring should be the place you go after you get tired of kite-boarding and your career achievements mean you can afford more than a mountain bike.

(First post, be nice.)

[[email protected]]

You're right!

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 9:16:08 AM UTC-8, Papa3 wrote:
> Just to build on this... Our little slice of the world (eastern Region 2) generates contest participation disproportionate to our size and especially to our soaring conditions. Why? It's because 3 or 4 sites are committed to building/fostering an active XC community. Without an active XC community, you can't have racing.
>
> At Aero Club Albatross for example, we push people out of the nest early on. Once they get a Silver distance (in a 1-26), they have access to a 1-34R. After the 1-34, they can move into an LS3 or an LS4. Oh, and we've refurbished 2 of the 3 glass birds from basket cases to like-new condition ourselves. It's not due to some top-down mandate but rather a culture that's been formed over decades.
>
> Now, we have clubs at Randall (UH's group) and Brandywine (Philadelphia area) to compete against thanks to similarly driven and growing clubs.
>
> Message: Think global. Act local. It's actually not that hard . It just takes a few people who will abandon the keyboard and actually go out and do stuff.
>
> Erik Mann
> Refinisher-in-Chief, ACA
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 11:13:24 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 9, 2017 at 10:02:54 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 11:22:20 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > > > Q-"What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?"
> > > > A- Poor instructor experience level nationally, and poor fleet nationally speaking.
> > > >
> > > > Soaring is not fostered by the clubs in the US, gliding is. If you can't soar, you can't race. A newly minted pilot must choose between a 20-100k investment and teach themselves to fly X/C or earn an instructor certificate and spend the rest of their days in the back of a 2-33. (this is why membership is down.) The self starters who spend their money to buy a private ship care little about fostering a fledgling pilot unless they want to buy a glider and try to keep up. The whole system is out of wack. Clubs that won't invest in high performance equipment and advanced instruction miss the opportunity to sustain membership and improve the sport. The instructor group refuses to acknowledge the problem because it exposes their inexperience in x/c and time in high performance a/c. They have no desire to invest money out of pocket as club members in the higher performance a/c or the financial investment required of themselves to become x/c proficient.
> > > > Take a look at the JR. program in the UK. Do you think they expect those kids to buy their own gliders and figure it out themselves? No, they have real instructors and real sailplanes. If you have a large number of x/c proficient pilots with a bunch of high performance gliders laying around the racing part will take care of itself.
> > > >
> > > > -Doug
> > >
> > > Doug, beating up on US clubs maybe en vogue but doesn't come close to the truth. As a member of 2 clubs that own ASK-21's, a Duo, an ASW-24, LS6 and LS4's we promote x-country flying and beg members to use these assets. We also have competent competition pilots to show them the ropes. Maligning the US club culture is not helping, how about you working on improving it?
> > > Herb
> >
> > Being an armchair critic requires 15 seconds. Being a builder of the sport requires a lifetime of commitment.
> > Our club does primary in 2-33's (gasp), advanced in ASK-21. We teach XC in both.
> > We have 2 1-26's and a 1-34 for solo XC. Our Juniors have their own 1-26 and Std Libelle for XC. Three,possibly four of our juniors will fly in contests this year, with some others doing contest "riding" where they fly the task assisted by an experienced contest pilot.
> > Harris Hill does the same, except their juniors have a Discus.
> > FWIW
> > UH

Erik (and Hank and others) make important points. I'd offer a couple of thoughts.

Glider racing is basically s subscription business in that you need to attract "customers" (Glider Pilots --> XC Pilots --> Racing Pilots) at some considerable upfront cost and effort and attempt to retain them. The basic health of the business is therefore dictated by "installed base churn" - that is, you need more people coming in than going out.

Generally retention is cheaper and easier than running more volume through the customer acquisition pipeline, but it has limits (at minimum people retire ultimately). Keeping racing engaging and fun (in terms of the the competition itself and socially) helps retain pilots. People in my part of the world call this good UX design (user experience). We should ask ourselves why Seniors, Perry, Nephi and a few other places draw so well. For some the adventure of a new environment and the promise of exceptional flying conditions are alluring, but good UX for participants (and those who support these events) is more than that.

No matter what you do with retention, you still have to attract new blood through some or all of the Glider Pilot --> XC Pilot --> Racing Pilot customer acquisition chain. That process basically requires that the impetus and motivation to move forward exceed the obstacles. I think Erik and Hank have it basically right. There are obstacles related available time, distance and suitable equipment for XC that need to be knocked down (some - like distance - are harder to solve for), but are also relatively straightforward approaches to increasing the motivation to move forward. It is partly intrinsic (the person needs to have the flying/racing "gene"), but much of it is human relationships and social. This is where training, mentoring, encouragement, and making the process socially attractive matter. For instance, getting into this sport requires a high ratio of non-flying to flying time - what's that time look like in terms of UX? Dealing with those things takes more time than money and that can be easy or hard, depending on whether there are people willing to invest and stick with it.

Those who do put in the time are precious resources and I thank them. I've been watching Erik's glider refurbishment projects from a distance - that's a big commitment. I know how much energy Hank (and many others that I don't know so well) puts into keeping a flock of younger pilots engaged, excited and making progress. I think that's a lot of what needs to be developed and emulated.

As Hank would say - FWIW.

Andy Blackburn
9B

[Sean Fidler]

I am so amused. Please keep going. #popcorn

[WB]

Been in clubs that had crap equipment and actively discouraged getting better. Same clubs had leadership that did all they could to discourage cross country soaring. Been in clubs that had great equipment and encouraged racing and cross country. Guess which of those two types are the more successful? Unfortunately, club sports of all kinds tend to get taken over by bureaucratic types who love nothing better than to rule. They love to forbid, restrict, deny. Usually in the name of "safety". Oh, and they love love love to trot out the "Oh, we can't do that, it exposes us to LIABILITY!. These people throw roadblocks in the way of anything that is not their idea. God forbid someone suggest we allow a junior to take the club glass single place (obtained by tramping over the dead bodies of those who said we'd buy a club glass ship "over their dead bodies"). We have a particularly talented junior in our club. Superb stick, smart, and absolutely dying to fly cross country. Club leadership pitches the expected hissy and throws obstacles in the kid's way. So, the kid just decides he'll abide and fly as best he can. Of course, one day I ranged out to one our regular turnpoints about 35 miles away. Guess who was there already? Of course, the kid, and he's comfortably centered in a great thermal going up. We flew together for a while until I got embarrassed about being outclimbed. He knew where he was, knew what he needed to get to a landing field, and what he needed to get home. The point is, there was no reason to discourage this young man's progress in soaring other than pure bloody mindedness and the bureaucratic urge to say no (and, I think no small part of jealousy). So, even in clubs that bill themselves as encouraging cross country and racing, the faithful have to constantly fight to actually provide that encouragement and opportunities to the membership. It's fatiguing and stressful to have to fight with people you love and otherwise respect, but sometimes that's what we have to do.

[[email protected]]

Soaring in general doesn't appeal to many people. And, sorry, it never will.. It's expensive, takes a lot of time, is relatively difficult to learn (you can't teach yourself by bashing down the ski slope or across the waves falling all over the place and then getting back up to try again), more frustrating than most sports (one minor mistake can put you on the ground, not for a few minutes but for the rest of the day), and retrieves are a real pain. Yeah, we can probably increase the number of people coming into the funnel but the yield will always be very low.

A tiny fraction of those who do "stick" will gravitate to competition. To them, it's the best part of soaring, for a variety of reasons: wanting to win, the challenge of competing against the best, the adventure, the social aspects, etc. Just point them in the right direction and help as needed, then get out of the way.

Then there are those in between, pilots who made it to the solo stage but aren't convinced they can or wish to fly cross country, much less to compete.. Some may be intrigued but think they can't. Some try it and decide it's not for them. Some wish to but aren't willing to put soaring at the top of their priority list. Everyone is different. There are a lot of other demands on our time these days and plenty of alternatives for it. But this is the group that I think the Hank Nixons and Erik Manns of the world do such a great job with, that and helping train the incoming pilots who might end up in this group. You can't make someone fall in love with soaring any more than you can make them fall in love with another person. What you can do is help make it possible for them to pursue that love.

I got into competition almost 50 years ago because my father--my instructor and also a contest pilot--not only made it possible, he was my coach and support system. Later, thanks to some early gratification in the sport and a career that took off and made it possible financially, competition went to the top of my list of priorities and stayed there for many years. These days, it's still very important but I find it's easier to get sidetracked and/or discouraged by all the "stuff" facing us in life. As it happens, both Erik and Hank have played key roles in getting me back into soaring on three occasions after enforced layoffs. If not for the two of them, I probably wouldn't be flying today, looking forward to another competition season. Thanks, both of you; I haven't said that often enough but I owe you a lot.

I'm not sure why they do it. And I have no idea of the number of people these two guys are personally responsible for introducing to competition and/or keeping them going in it. I know there are others like them at other clubs and locations but we can use more.

I like Erik's message: "Think global. Act local." We can expose soaring to more people and increase the number who decide to take lessons. But helping that small number (and it will always be a small number) who are receptive to competition and just need help is probably the most fruitful endeavor. And that's a very hands-on process.

Access to better gliders certainly helps, especially those who are in school or just starting out. And, again, these two guys have done a huge amount to make it possible. But it's no guarantee. I know of many juniors who get excited about soaring for a while and then walk away when university life, jobs, the opposite sex, cars, or whatever become more intriguing or just easier to enjoy.

How many high-performance club gliders sit on the ground much of the time for want of seriously interested pilots? Is that anyone's "fault"...or is just the nature of soaring?

Chip Bearden

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Ok, for you and Wilbur, I have been around the sport for many years (started in the early/mid 70's).

Did the basic, kid learns to fly, starts getting away from airport, does off airport landings, gets license, eventually becomes CFIG to "give back to the sport", worked on badges (gold "C" with 2 diamonds, all from SE NY), numerous regionals, a few nationals. I would go XC in a 1-26 just as often as an ASG-29, I didn't care, I was flying.

I don't fly contests right now, haven't for maybe 6 years.

Why?

To start, it has NOTHING to do with the contest rules then or now. Period.
A lot was time, my job entailed a lot of work travel, this meant when home, I had things that needed to be done, wife that wanted to spend time with me (imagine that), 2 kids that wanted to do things with me (also imagine that).

We did all go to our airport, wife would do some things with other wives while I flew, my kids would fly with me, one got to the point of getting a private glider license.
Kids ended up doing other things, I still didn't fly as much as I wanted/needed.
I flew enough to "be safe", marginal on being decent on XC, no where near what I consider good enough to be competing, both for myself as well as others in the air I was flying with.

I either own or have access to a great selection of aircraft. With enough current flying, I would like to compete again, I do enjoy the flying as well as being with the majority of the contest crowd. This is the pilots, their families and all the people on the ground that put on a contest.
I started contests when we all had sectionals with rings on them for distance, cameras as flight proof, waiting hours as film was developed, most people didn't have electric varios (I thought an audio vario was VERY cool to have!). Last contest had GPS, flight computers and moving maps, FLARM, again, really cool stuff.

So, for me (again, read my background), to make "soaring great again" has absolutely NOTHING to do with rules that we used to use or currently use.

I can't/won't speak for others, I can only speak for myself.

I will say that I'm glad I fly in a club that PROMOTES XC and badge flying.
I'm also glad I have the aircraft access that I have.

Maybe if more locations do what our club does as well as ACA, HHSC and others, it can turn things around.

But I think the "broad brush stroke" of what is wrong with the sport is just as wrong. That is my opinion though.

..

[ND]

i think the Junior contest is a step in the right direction. one of the things that really juiced me when i was a junior member at harris hill was making alot of friends. soaring became a social thing. damn, Nik got his rating already! i better work on that . Holy ****! corey just finished his silver C, and he's not even old enough for a private license yet, i better get some cross country instruction.

juniors have boundless energy and time. they don't have alot of money though ususally. but the SSA subsidy for juniors really helps with that. the benevolence of those willing to lend gliders helps alot too. i think bringing these kids together for an event will get several of them motivated to stick with it, especially when a few of the advanced juniors show the others what a junior can achieve.

i also think FAI handicapped contests are good, as well as the club class. i flew my 20 in the 15m nationals, because it was FAI handicapped. i didn't have to be able to afford a 29, or a V2bx to be competitive. at the same time, i'm flying the club class nationals every year, which seems to have been well attended. it just makes being competitive more affordable. most people who race usually do so, because they aspire to place well. if they don't they will do well because of their equipment they won't want to compete. that's why i dont take my 20 to the open class nationals.

look at what the 20m 2 seat class will do to open class participation... an arcus is perfectly capable of winning against the traditional open class birds, and to be sure, they have made up a large portion of the open class field in the last few years.

so another thing we should do is reduce the number of new classes we are creating, if we feel that it will cannibalize participation in other classes. one could argue that creating the club class detracted from sports class participation, which i agree with to a certain extent, but i still think that one was a good move actually.

[Kevin Brooker]

This is an interesting topic. What seems to be a commonality to many who have stopped competing is the time required to do so. It is possible to make more money but once a unit of time is spent it is gone. Unlike bank account or earning potential we all have a finite amount of time to use.

If sailplane racing is to become great again the efficient use of time must be a cornerstone when planning.

Ironically, sailplanes spend almost all of their time in the trailer compared to in the air. Maybe finding and sharing local gliders will reduce the time and expense of trailering across the country. It is much less expensive to pay someones insurance bill then haul a trailer from one coast to the next and back again.

When I've borrowed gliders for contests I am significantly more careful then flying my own ship. Let the insurance companies bear the risk of damage. Isn't this why we have insurance.

Having something for family to do besides hang out at the airport might make it simpler to burn family time for a contest.

Hold big national contests every other year so there is a chance to bank vacation time from work.

Make it simpler to host smaller, more local contests with less prestige and pressure to do well.

Find other formats (start when you want, bracket racing, etc) which many will deem unfair but might allow more participation.

Relay races around a shorter course. Run my leg and I can leave if time is limited. Encourage more team events so a pilot can still participate but fly a few days during a long contest.

Sailplane pilots are fairly intelligent and should be able to find creative ways to make contests fun.

[[email protected]]

Making sailplane racing popular sounds like putting on a good sailplane encampment. Can o worms opened. Encampments compete with 'real' races for pilot's attendance. Would Wilbur be happy with a robust encampment scene? One could pretend they are racing everyone else. Do we want more and better flying. Or more and better flying with tin trophies?
On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 3:43:07 PM UTC-4, Kevin Brooker wrote:
> This is an interesting topic. What seems to be a commonality to many who
> have stopped competing is the time required to do so. It is possible to
> make more money but once a unit of time is spent it is gone. Unlike bank
> account or earning potential we all have a finite amount of time to use.
>
>
> If sailplane racing is to become great again the efficient use of time
> must be a cornerstone when planning.
>
> Ironically, sailplanes spend almost all of their time in the trailer
> compared to in the air. Maybe finding and sharing local gliders will
> reduce the time and expense of trailering across the country. It is much
> less expensive to pay someones insurance bill then haul a trailer from
> one coast to the next and back again.
>
> When I've borrowed gliders for contests I am significantly more careful
> then flying my own ship. Let the insurance companies bear the risk of
> damage. Isn't this why we have insurance.
>
> Having something for family to do besides hang out at the airport might
> make it simpler to burn family time for a contest.
>
> Hold big national contests every other year so there is a chance to bank
> vacation time from work.
>
> Make it simpler to host smaller, more local contests with less prestige
> and pressure to do well.
>
> Find other formats (start when you want, bracket racing, etc) which many
> will deem unfair but might allow more participation.
>
> Relay races around a shorter course. Run my leg and I can leave if time
> is limited. Encourage more team events so a pilot can still participate
> but fly a few days during a long contest.
>
> Sailplane pilots are fairly intelligent and should be able to find
> creative ways to make contests fun.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kevin Brooker

[John Bojack J4]

Very well stated, Chip. I've always thought of you as one of the icons of our sport.

I once heard Doug Jacobs say "soaring in the usa is as popular as tiddlewinks". Well, i had to research tiddlewinks.

Given that soaring is unknown to most, is expensive and dangerous, often inconvenient (landouts) and no fun for significant others (rare usa soaring sites are)...it's a wonder we get the participation we do.

Now, add the demands of contest flying to all that!

J4

[[email protected]]

To make soaring contests more popular, simply copy "The Seniors" contest, now going on in Florida. Sold out every year.

One of the reasons is the primary emphasis on the "Fun Factor."

Of course, there are a few serious pilots, however the vast majority are there just to fly in a safe manner and have a good time, both in the air and on the ground.

Few will remember who won in preceding years.

One of the original Seniors tongue-in-cheek rules was a penalty if you won the day. Even waxing your glider had a penalty.

Tasks are set so everyone is able to complete it, and the task area has plenty of good places to land.

Further, the non-flying times have plenty of opportunity for casual, fun, gatherings.

Tom Knauff

[Fox Two[_2_]]

TW: My thoughts exactly! I'll see you at 4000 meters at Prarayer!

F2

[John Cochrane[_3_]]

Tom vs. "Wilbur" capture, I think, the essence of the argument. Wilbur wants to make sailplane racing "great" (not again, because it never was) for spectators. Tom wants to make sailplane racing great for pilots. If you want a spectator sport, you need a grand prix like event, and crashes would make it even more enticing. American Ninja Sailplane Warriors. About 5 people will want to participate. If you want a participant sport, you want an event that lets pilots enjoy good flights, a nice venue, good parties, happy spouses .. and nobody really watching. There really isn't an argument here about how to get from goal to result, the argument is over goals. And, fortunately, nothing about either goal stops people from pursuing the other. So I don't know what we're fighting about. Wilbur, thanks for organizing grand prix, and good luck with it. Nothing about the existence of seniors, nephi, etc. stops you! Seniors, Nephi, Perry, etc. thanks so much to organizers for putting it on and US rules for devising a good balance between use the day fun and a reasonable race. Nothing about the existence of such events stops anyone who wants to make racing "great" again from putting on grand prixes.

John Cochrane

[Tango Whisky]

Le mardi 21 mars 2017 10:46:07 UTC+1, Fox Two a écritÂ*:
> TW: My thoughts exactly! I'll see you at 4000 meters at Prarayer!
>
> F2

Yes, see you there :-)

But the time being, given the great weather in Southern France right now, I'm back in the office...

TW

[John Godfrey (QT)[_2_]]

On Saturday, March 4, 2017 at 11:17:12 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> You will only improve if you are honest with yourself and admit your weaknesses. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. A tow rope looses 50% of its strength with a knot it in.
>
> For those who have tasted flight, their eyes will be forever turned skyward. And for those who have tasted the excitement of racing alongside another sailplane, they will forever want to compete. Sailplane racing is a sport in which a 16 year old can compete against an 86 year old. It is the most pure form of aviation that exists. Hot air ballooning, helicopters, power aircraft to gyrocopters, can quickly reach a state where you feel you have mastered that craft. With Soaring, it takes a lifetime, an endless pursuit of winning a challeng that is always changing with the winds.
>
> What are, in your opinion, the weakest links to sailplane racing?
>
> My opinion is that the complexities of the game have become too overwhelming it takes the fun away.
>
> Back in the old days, it was as simple as who can fly the furthest downwind. That's simple to understand.
>
> Technology, spot tracking, no more cameras at the points have changed our sport, but is it really for the better? Are we embracing these technological advancements to rise our sport or has it been used to demise our sport?
>
> More than often in the past decade have we seen dismal turnouts for classes. 12 pilots for the standard class national championship showed up! That's pathetic!
>
> It makes me wonder, does the SSA leadership want a sold out contest? Or do they want a small turnout to reduce the competition they face? Actions speak louder than words! Or is it that this has become a good old boys club and we want to keep it small like a gentlemens hunting club.
>
> It's shocking that a pilot can get a rating, buy a glider and finish last place in a regional contest and then with minimal qualifications qualify for a National Contest!
>
> This alone clearly shows that what has been done to keep the sport the same size, or increase its participation levels has been a failure.

IMauHO, we could make traditional sailplane racing interesting to watch (and anecdotal feedback is that lots of folks would like to watch) by economically solving the near real-time tracking nut (not just interval, but also latency). This would allow "spectators" to see:
1. Speed made good by competitors up to now
2. Distance/time remaining
3. Who has how much in the "bank"
4. What McCready #2 has to achieve to win

That would be worth watching. Real time data (and marketing) made the America's Cup a spectator sport.

[[email protected]]

Sailplane racing has now been made great again.


Thank you Sean...