Self Launch Sailplane... Help needed with Class D operation

[Steve B]

Yikes...

I asked tower guy about operating out of a Class D Airport and he
mentioned something... the only part I caught was "and the Horse I
rode in on".

His comments were that with operations continuous for the entire day
that he did not like the idea of inconveniencing the passengers and or
commercial operations.

The airport is in Kona Hawaii and we get a Jet about once every 20
minutes. I suggested that I would be of no greater impact than the
airforce tanker that does touch and goes for practice quite
frequently.

I asked him that if it would be possible to sequence for a non
motorized landing and then power up for taxi. He did not like the
idea... I asked him if he thought that landing on the Taxi way would
be an option - the taxi way is huge and would be ideal... (helicopters
and an ultralight land on the taxi way) he did not like that idea.

He is not welcoming the idea and also wanted to know if I had
collision lights, he thought that it would be necessary to operate at
the airport? Are Collision lights necessary for Class D?

Any body been able to do not powered landings in Class D? I would like
to present a proposal to the tower on a way to operate out of the
airport that would be acceptable to the administration of the
facility.

Has anybody proposed a glider or motorglider operation on a single
runway location or Class D airfield?

Thanks

[Chuck]

(Steve B) wrote in message >...
> Yikes...
>
> I asked tower guy about operating out of a Class D Airport and he
> mentioned something... the only part I caught was "and the Horse I
> rode in on".
********
No federally funded airport may arbitrarily deny request for use.

Check with the Ultralight guys who operate from there they will know.

[BTIZ]

I don't believe collision lights are required for Class D.. check the local
ultralights and J-3 cubs...

Is the Class D within a ClassC ring?

Perhaps he would be agreeable to "powered" operations only... just to bad
the engine would not crank up on downwind.. he might be concerned of not
being able to direct a go around for other traffic.

If the airport manager, not the tower, approves taxi way operations for the
ultra lights, then precedence has been set.

Check to see if there is a letter of agreement or operations memorandum
between the ultra lights and the airport or tower.

BT
"Steve B" > wrote in message
om...
> Yikes...
>
> I asked tower guy about operating out of a Class D Airport and he
> mentioned something... the only part I caught was "and the Horse I
> rode in on".
>
> His comments were that with operations continuous for the entire day
> that he did not like the idea of inconveniencing the passengers and or
> commercial operations.
>
> The airport is in Kona Hawaii and we get a Jet about once every 20
> minutes. I suggested that I would be of no greater impact than the
> airforce tanker that does touch and goes for practice quite
> frequently.
>
> I asked him that if it would be possible to sequence for a non
> motorized landing and then power up for taxi. He did not like the
> idea... I asked him if he thought that landing on the Taxi way would
> be an option - the taxi way is huge and would be ideal... (helicopters
> and an ultralight land on the taxi way) he did not like that idea.
>
> He is not welcoming the idea and also wanted to know if I had
> collision lights, he thought that it would be necessary to operate at
> the airport? Are Collision lights necessary for Class D?
>
> Any body been able to do not powered landings in Class D? I would like
> to present a proposal to the tower on a way to operate out of the
> airport that would be acceptable to the administration of the
> facility.
>
> Has anybody proposed a glider or motorglider operation on a single
> runway location or Class D airfield?
>
> Thanks

[soarski]

(Steve B) wrote in message >...
> Yikes...
>
> I asked tower guy about operating out of a Class D Airport and he
> mentioned something... the only part I caught was "and the Horse I
> rode in on".
>
> His comments were that with operations continuous for the entire day
> that he did not like the idea of inconveniencing the passengers and or
> commercial operations.
>
> The airport is in Kona Hawaii and we get a Jet about once every 20
> minutes. I suggested that I would be of no greater impact than the
> airforce tanker that does touch and goes for practice quite
> frequently.
>
> I asked him that if it would be possible to sequence for a non
> motorized landing and then power up for taxi. He did not like the
> idea... I asked him if he thought that landing on the Taxi way would
> be an option - the taxi way is huge and would be ideal... (helicopters
> and an ultralight land on the taxi way) he did not like that idea.
>
> He is not welcoming the idea and also wanted to know if I had
> collision lights, he thought that it would be necessary to operate at
> the airport? Are Collision lights necessary for Class D?
>
> Any body been able to do not powered landings in Class D? I would like
> to present a proposal to the tower on a way to operate out of the
> airport that would be acceptable to the administration of the
> facility.
>
> Has anybody proposed a glider or motorglider operation on a single
> runway location or Class D airfield?
>
> Thanks

Yes, I have done so for decades, with relatively heavy traffic. Until
1995 we were even towing here! A fleet of 7 Gliders.

Sugestion: Make sure your radio is working well and that you know
how to use it in that environment. Then offer to operate your glider
as a powered aircraft initially. With most selflaunchers, that's
possible. You may have to teach yourself how to do that, also to be
able to roll off the runway, power on or power off. I usually land
with out power, but the tower knows, that I will claer the runway for
sure rolling out.

I have never taken advantage of our right away. When I land power off,
I call in, on a high upwind or x-wind and ask to be # 1 or #2 , at
that time seeing and knowing all the traffic.

Once you have their trust they enjoy working with you. The lights are
not required. What do you fly?

Good Luck!

[Eric Greenwell]

A club member flies his PIK 20E out of the Pasco (PSC) Class D airport
without problems. They've asked him to return under power, the last I
heard. No lights.

Years ago, a DG 400 operated out of the nearby Walla Walla (ALW) Class
D. They even allowed him to tow the glider to the end of the runway with
car, but it isn't near as busy as the Kona airport.

Maybe you could arrange a demonstration of the glider's capability for
the tower personnel, during a slow part of a day. They probably have a
poor idea of what's involved.

Steve B wrote:

> Yikes...
>
> I asked tower guy about operating out of a Class D Airport and he
> mentioned something... the only part I caught was "and the Horse I
> rode in on".
>
> His comments were that with operations continuous for the entire day
> that he did not like the idea of inconveniencing the passengers and or
> commercial operations.
>
> The airport is in Kona Hawaii and we get a Jet about once every 20
> minutes. I suggested that I would be of no greater impact than the
> airforce tanker that does touch and goes for practice quite
> frequently.
>
> I asked him that if it would be possible to sequence for a non
> motorized landing and then power up for taxi. He did not like the
> idea... I asked him if he thought that landing on the Taxi way would
> be an option - the taxi way is huge and would be ideal... (helicopters
> and an ultralight land on the taxi way) he did not like that idea.
>
> He is not welcoming the idea and also wanted to know if I had
> collision lights, he thought that it would be necessary to operate at
> the airport? Are Collision lights necessary for Class D?
>
> Any body been able to do not powered landings in Class D? I would like
> to present a proposal to the tower on a way to operate out of the
> airport that would be acceptable to the administration of the
> facility.
>
> Has anybody proposed a glider or motorglider operation on a single
> runway location or Class D airfield?
>
> Thanks

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[soarski]

(Chuck) wrote in message >...
> (Steve B) wrote in message >...
> > Yikes...
> >
> > I asked tower guy about operating out of a Class D Airport and he
> > mentioned something... the only part I caught was "and the Horse I
> > rode in on".
> ********
> No federally funded airport may arbitrarily deny request for use.
>
> Check with the Ultralight guys who operate from there they will know.




SO! I dug up this month old thread, where Mr. Prindle asked us before,
and we gave him advice. Not good enough?

When I was still flying a Grob Twin IIISL out of our very busy Aspen
airport, which probably does not handle as well on the ground as the
ASH 26 E, I used to do high speed taxis, fast enough so I had aileron
Control and taxi wings level!

One day I was following an executive jet on the long taxiway, who was
taxiing much slower than me. The Lady ground controller comes on and
says: Jet so and so, could you speed up your taxi, aircraft behind
you needs higher taxi speed. I had their trust and still have it!

This is a sgl. runway airport!

Kahului airport for a short time had a Stemme giving rides stationed
there. I always wanted to see the Island from above so I bought a
ride! BTW We climbed to 11500 and I said, this should be high enough
to glide to the big island? So we did, no power! Over the Pacific
listening to each other's life stories. There we climbed to 14000,
sight seeing the peak, and then...final glide to Kahului! Fine...But
the pilot did not turn on the engine before entering the pattern, and
he almost cut out an airliner, with poor radio procedures. I warned
the pilot that he could not expect to fly into that airport. Power
off!

The Operation did not last much longer! Possibly the reason why it is
so difficult to get going for you now? Do you intend to operate your
motorglider like a power plane while in th D airspace?

BTW I always enter the airspace from above!

[Steve B]

Thank you for your comments... exactly what I am looking for...
specific examples of motorglider operating at a Towered Airport with a
single runway. I would like to use your example in a proposal that I
am preparing.

Recently I have received some help for the FSDO with my efforts. I am
trying to put together a proposal to submit to the parties in the
decision making process.

I need to give them some specific examples of locations where
motorgliders are operated at airports that have a single runway It
will also be helpful to include the mix of airline traffic.

And yes I intend to be (In the propeller driven mode) while in Class D
airspace.

Now for the rest of the story...

I live here in Hawaii and find your experience with the Stemme in Maui
quite humorous. To add to your story... (This is totally fictional of
course) At the time the Stemme was in Maui I was flying back and forth
from the Big Island to my office in Maui in my Mooney... I did not
meet the fellow that had the Stemme but in talking to some friends I
was told the the Stemme driver was not familiar with powered aircraft
procedures, I believe that he came from a hang gliding background and
was not familiar with the class C airspace. Because he was a very
accomplished and well know pilot in the hang gliding community and the
fact that the guy in the Tower was a glider owner. A message was
posted in the tower to the effect of... when he wants to go flying...
try and keep him away from the other planes. (end of fictious story)

Thanks again for the information... it is a big help to have the
example of your experience in Aspen.

Steve B aka Mr. Prindle








(soarski) wrote in message >...
> (Chuck) wrote in message >...
> > (Steve B) wrote in message >...
> > > Yikes...
> > >
> > > I asked tower guy about operating out of a Class D Airport and he
> > > mentioned something... the only part I caught was "and the Horse I
> > > rode in on".
> > ********
> > No federally funded airport may arbitrarily deny request for use.
> >
> > Check with the Ultralight guys who operate from there they will know.
>
>
>
>
> SO! I dug up this month old thread, where Mr. Prindle asked us before,
> and we gave him advice. Not good enough?
>
> When I was still flying a Grob Twin IIISL out of our very busy Aspen
> airport, which probably does not handle as well on the ground as the
> ASH 26 E, I used to do high speed taxis, fast enough so I had aileron
> Control and taxi wings level!
>
> One day I was following an executive jet on the long taxiway, who was
> taxiing much slower than me. The Lady ground controller comes on and
> says: Jet so and so, could you speed up your taxi, aircraft behind
> you needs higher taxi speed. I had their trust and still have it!
>
> This is a sgl. runway airport!
>
> Kahului airport for a short time had a Stemme giving rides stationed
> there. I always wanted to see the Island from above so I bought a
> ride! BTW We climbed to 11500 and I said, this should be high enough
> to glide to the big island? So we did, no power! Over the Pacific
> listening to each other's life stories. There we climbed to 14000,
> sight seeing the peak, and then...final glide to Kahului! Fine...But
> the pilot did not turn on the engine before entering the pattern, and
> he almost cut out an airliner, with poor radio procedures. I warned
> the pilot that he could not expect to fly into that airport. Power
> off!
>
> The Operation did not last much longer! Possibly the reason why it is
> so difficult to get going for you now? Do you intend to operate your
> motorglider like a power plane while in th D airspace?
>
> BTW I always enter the airspace from above!