FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA 🇺🇸 Orlando [Archive]

Sean Fidler

March 28th 17, 12:45 PM

Day 2 winners interview: https://youtu.be/dniwJNJh0wE

Day 2 results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx

Day 2 task: click "show details" on the daily results page

Overall results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Website: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017.aspx

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/faisailplanegp

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Flickr photos: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/race-coverage/photos.aspx?contestID=28476

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Facebook page: @FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA

The weather here in Florida for the last 5 days has been superb! 😋 Yesterdays task consisted of a 390km racing task and the winners speed was 121 kph. Climbs ranged from 4-7 knots with ample cumulus. Cloud base began at 5k at 1pm and increased to 6k by the finish. There were many air-masses, sea breeze lines and several large holes to contend with and this separated the group significantly on the 3rd leg. Congrats to Jerzy, Sean and Rich for rounding out the top 3.

Sean Fidler - 7T
SGP USA 🇺🇸 Event Manager & Competitor

Sean Fidler

March 28th 17, 12:48 PM

Thanks Sasha! Those aerobatic rides are cool too!!!

Tony[_5_]

March 28th 17, 04:34 PM

431 km today

Tony[_5_]

March 29th 17, 02:29 AM

Challenging task today with a blue hole just before the NE turnpoint and then a trip to he wrong side if the sea breeze at the NW. That sea breeze resulted in some serious meandering to get to he SW turnpoint. Lots of fun though!

Sean Fidler

March 29th 17, 12:59 PM

Day 3 winners interview: https://youtu.be/puh0a8e1Ja0

Day 3 results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx

Day 3 sea breeze front approach: https://youtu.be/iCv96cypwq0

Day 2 task: click "show details" on the daily results page

Overall results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Website: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017.aspx

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/faisailplanegp

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Flickr photos: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/race-coverage/photos.aspx?contestID=28476

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Facebook page: @FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA

The weather here in Florida continues to be absolutely superb! Yesterdays FAI SGP USA task consisted of a 440km assigned racing task and the winners speed was 110 kph. Climbs ranged from 4-6+ knots with ample cumulus. There were several large holes to contend with during the 3rd task. The first was a 50 km mile glide heading into TP4 Umatilla. Then a strong gulf sea breeze front lined up most of the way to TP 5 Williston but the marine air had already fully engulfed the turnpoint by the time the leaders arrived. (See video above). The SGP pilots had to negotiate a 30km glide out to the turn point in the blue, then back to the clouds. This required significant deviation. There was also a large hole going into TP6 Cub Haven which forced the lead pack (XG, ZO and 1C) to get a little lower than ideal and this slowed them down considerably allowing several to pass on the leg to the final steering turn. 7T, 711 and 98 deviated to the W to hit a strong sea breeze driven Cu and got to final glide before the turnpoint allowing for an 80 km final glide at MC 4. Congrats to Sean 7T, Tom 711 and Pete 98 for rounding out the top 3.

SGP USA 🇺🇸 Event Manager & Competitor

Bruce Hoult

March 29th 17, 03:05 PM

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 2:59:53 PM UTC+3, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Day 3 winners interview: https://youtu.be/puh0a8e1Ja0
>
> Day 3 results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx
>
> Day 3 sea breeze front approach: https://youtu.be/iCv96cypwq0
>
> Day 2 task: click "show details" on the daily results page
>
> Overall results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx
>
> FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Website: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017.aspx
>
> FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/faisailplanegp
>
> FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Flickr photos: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/race-coverage/photos.aspx?contestID=28476
>
> FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Facebook page: @FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA
>
> The weather here in Florida continues to be absolutely superb! Yesterdays FAI SGP USA task consisted of a 440km assigned racing task and the winners speed was 110 kph. Climbs ranged from 4-6+ knots with ample cumulus. There were several large holes to contend with during the 3rd task. The first was a 50 km mile glide heading into TP4 Umatilla. Then a strong gulf sea breeze front lined up most of the way to TP 5 Williston but the marine air had already fully engulfed the turnpoint by the time the leaders arrived. (See video above). The SGP pilots had to negotiate a 30km glide out to the turn point in the blue, then back to the clouds. This required significant deviation. There was also a large hole going into TP6 Cub Haven which forced the lead pack (XG, ZO and 1C) to get a little lower than ideal and this slowed them down considerably allowing several to pass on the leg to the final steering turn. 7T, 711 and 98 deviated to the W to hit a strong sea breeze driven Cu and got to final glide before the turnpoint allowing for an 80 km final glide at MC 4. Congrats to Sean 7T, Tom 711 and Pete 98 for rounding out the top 3.

Nice one!

I guess you've got much better instrumentation now. Back when I was doing the odd contest all I had was a GPS that would tell the distance to the next TP. Before launch I'd annotate the task sheet with the required height at each of the last few TPs in order to final glide home at 22:1 and 33:1 L/Ds (150 and 100 ft/km) -- and know what speed/MC will give those glide angles.. 33:1 was basically my MC=0 in the PW5, but in a better glider I suppose I'd add a 41:1 80 ft/km as a near enough MC=0. Then it was pretty easy to take the GPS distance to the next TP, calculate height required to reach it, add the precalculated height to get home from that TP, and know if you were on final glide home around those 1 or 2 or whatever turnpoints (seldom more than that, of course).

Seemed to work pretty well, with minimal mental load.

When I flew right seat as a "passenger" with a friend doing night freight delivery in a small turboprop it was interesting that they did similar mental calculations, though simpler, with just one fixed glide angle, calculated as either 300 ft per n mile, or 3 miles per thousand feet (whichever was easiest at the time -- both are near enough). So if you were cruising at 15000 ft you'd start your descent at 45 (3 mi/1kft) - 50 (300 ft/mi) miles on the DME. And the rate of descent is five times your speed e.g. at 500 fpm at 100 knots, 800 fpm at 160 knots (it was our usual until 5 mi out on finals). Pretty easy to cross check the DME and altitude from time to time to see how you're doing, long before hitting the ILS (if there was one -- a lot were just VOR/DME). One place only had 2 NDBs positioned at different distances on final, which meant you needed to hit set altitudes crossing each NDB.

Tony[_5_]

March 29th 17, 03:42 PM

Throttling back to 400km today

Steve Leonard[_2_]

March 29th 17, 08:07 PM

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-5, vontresc wrote:

> Can someone "tweak" the tracker page to only show one tracker per contestant? It is difficult to make sense out of who is actually leading while following along on the glideport.aero tracking page.
>
> Peter

Sorry, Peter. Even there it is not "real time", so you can't see who is actually out front. Select someone's trace, hover over another and see where the other trace's barogram ends relative to the one you selected. Sometimes you can determine who you "think" is in the lead. Much better than actually working... :-)

[email protected]

March 29th 17, 08:52 PM

> Sorry, Peter. Even there it is not "real time", so you can't see who is actually out front. Select someone's trace, hover over another and see where the other trace's barogram ends relative to the one you selected. Sometimes you can determine who you "think" is in the lead. Much better than actually working... :-)

It's definitely better than nothing, but with update intervals in the 5-15 minute range, it really isn't all that useful. Hard to get excited about it when you really don't know who is leading and how far behind the others are. It's one thing to be watching delayed real time data and completely another to be watching data that has has large (5-15 minutes) gaps in it.

I think the Benalla WGC coverage set the bar pretty high in this regard.

They are doing a great job with video's and interviews, etc.

March 29th 17, 09:23 PM

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 12:52:25 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > Sorry, Peter. Even there it is not "real time", so you can't see who is actually out front. Select someone's trace, hover over another and see where the other trace's barogram ends relative to the one you selected. Sometimes you can determine who you "think" is in the lead. Much better than actually working... :-)
>
> It's definitely better than nothing, but with update intervals in the 5-15 minute range, it really isn't all that useful. Hard to get excited about it when you really don't know who is leading and how far behind the others are. It's one thing to be watching delayed real time data and completely another to be watching data that has has large (5-15 minutes) gaps in it.
>
> I think the Benalla WGC coverage set the bar pretty high in this regard.
>
> They are doing a great job with video's and interviews, etc.

As far as I know this is the best "live coverage" of any US competition to date. Congratulations on that!
Most competitions use LiveTrack24 for tracking, which views nicely in 3D. The Benalla WGC was by no means the first to do that.
Jim

[email protected]

March 29th 17, 11:08 PM

If you will hit the "play" button in the map screen the action is much easier to understand. The movement will be delayed by five minuites but it becomes a fluid viewer experience rather than a static one.

Granted it's not like watching NASCAR but we've come a long ways since I started in this sport in 2009!

Lane

vontresc

March 29th 17, 11:29 PM

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 5:08:57 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> If you will hit the "play" button in the map screen the action is much easier to understand. The movement will be delayed by five minuites but it becomes a fluid viewer experience rather than a static one.
>
> Granted it's not like watching NASCAR but we've come a long ways since I started in this sport in 2009!
>
> Lane

Yeah, that's not a bad way to do it, but wasn't the whole point of the SGP to be able to follow along in real time, and make it more spectator friendly???

howard banks

March 29th 17, 11:47 PM

But making it real time for real would make it even more biased to those super rich pilots like Wilbur who have around 15 ground advisors, one at each turnpoint and others in the gaps between, telling him just where to go to hit the best thermals. They would also all be told from base by the master tactician when a competitor had got the best thermal of the day and send their guy to catch it too.
So a delay is necessary to give the rest a chance against the pilot with the biggest wallet (even though he thinks he knows it is some other personal attribute that is in the gigantism class).
Really. Honest. Absolutely all true. Well it is nearly 4/1 ain't it?

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 7:23:37 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> SGP USA begins today at Seminole Lake Gliderport near Orlando, Florida.
>
> Website: www.sgp.aero/usa2017
>
> Live tracking: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/race-coverage/race-tracking.aspx?contestID=28476
>
> Facebook: @FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA
>
> Yesterday's practice race results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=28476

Tom BravoMike

March 30th 17, 01:40 AM

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 5:08:57 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> If you will hit the "play" button in the map screen the action is much easier to understand. The movement will be delayed by five minuites but it becomes a fluid viewer experience rather than a static one.
>
> Granted it's not like watching NASCAR but we've come a long ways since I started in this sport in 2009!
>
> Lane

Yes, it is fascinating to watch someone's whole flight including the landing pattern and where the glider stopped at Seminole after roll out.

BTW, is there any "User Manual" for this tracking system web page which would help us understand better and faster all the tools and symbols?

Tom BravoMike

[email protected]

March 30th 17, 10:26 AM

There are two Soaring Magazine articles from a couple of years ago. I'm not sure of months. One was written by myself and one by Pedja. If you log in to GlidePort.aero there is an info tab that describes instrument functions.

Lane

Sean Fidler

March 30th 17, 02:02 PM

FAI SGP USA Orlando Task 4 Report

Task 4 featured continued excellent soaring conditions here in sunny Florida (6 knots to 6k predicted at the start, higher later in the day). There was a small concern for high cirrus, so our CD John Godfrey throttled back the 400 km “Task A” to a more moderate “sprint” racing task of 270 km. The racing task was SW to Wauchulla, then E to Sebring, and then back N to the SGP southern steering turn and ultimately across the finish line directly overhead the Seminole Lake Gliderport. During the first leg, the gaggle stayed somewhat together but separated vertically via numerous available “lines” in the ample cumulus, wisps, etc. Once near Wauchulla (TP1) it became apparent that another large hole blocked Sebring (TP 2). The leaders (7T, 98, 711) tried to go direct by hitting small wisps in the blue, but XG deviated south (right) 30-40 degree and ran the stronger clouds along the edge of the hole. That deviation turned out to be the correct move. Once the leaders got around Sebring (20 km out in the blue), the hole continued for another 30 km. Fortunately, the lift was predictably strong upon re-connecting to the well-formed cumulus on the N edge of the Sebring hole. 7T found 6 knots (for 3500 ft to 7k) here and consolidated 2nd place. But, by this point, XG had a 15 km lead on the run N to the finish. M6 (Sergei Morozov, Canada) was in third place over the finish line but was slightly low (900 ft finish height) and that penalty (38 seconds) dropped him off the podium to 5th place. Jim Lee (1C) (fourth over the line) moved into third place to round out the podium.

Day 4 winners interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pbLNfxdNWw

Day 4 results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=28476

To see the task details: click "show details" on the daily results page

Flight logs: Click view on right edge of pilot score, then IGC log tab

Overall results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx

FAI SGP USA Website: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017.aspx

FAI SGP USA YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/faisailplanegp

FAI SGP USA Flickr photos: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/race-coverage/photos.aspx…

FAI SGP USA Facebook page: @FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA

Sean Fidler

March 30th 17, 03:12 PM

Task 5 is up: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=28476

Tony[_5_]

March 31st 17, 01:47 AM

Another fun task today even though I once again spent the first half of the task inspecting the Florida countryside from low altitude.

The weather tomorrow, will be different.

Sean Fidler

March 31st 17, 01:33 PM

Note: All the FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando competitors sailplanes are flying at a maximum wing loading of 9.7 lb./ft. This is confirmed each morning via a reference weighing process (only the main wheel in tow out configuration) on the way to the grid. The reference weight for each sailplane was carefully calculated during the FAI scrutineering (pre-contest) and takes only 10 minutes to calculate. The morning reference weight confirmation adds only 30 seconds to each competitors trip out to the grid and provides a very level playing field for all 18m competitors. Ultimately, having all competitors sailplanes level at 9.7 lb./ft. wing-loading makes for a very enjoyable racing experience.

Sean

Sean Fidler

March 31st 17, 01:45 PM

Note: The FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando competitors are flying sailplanes with a wing loading of 9.7 lb./ft (max). This wing-loading is confirmed each morning via a reference weighing procedure (the main wheel is weighed in tow out configuration) on the way to the grid. The reference weight for each sailplane was carefully calculated during the FAI scrutineering (pre-contest, takes only 10 minutes to calculate). The morning reference weight confirmation adds only 30 seconds to each competitor's trip out to the grid. This small detail provides a very level playing field for all our 18m competitors. Ultimately, having all competitors confirmed at 9..7 lb./ft. wing-loading makes for an extremely enjoyable racing experience (vs, for example, handicap US rules competitions).

Sean

Bruce Hoult

March 31st 17, 02:29 PM

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 3:45:40 PM UTC+3, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Note: The FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando competitors are flying sailplanes with a wing loading of 9.7 lb./ft (max). This wing-loading is confirmed each morning via a reference weighing procedure (the main wheel is weighed in tow out configuration) on the way to the grid. The reference weight for each sailplane was carefully calculated during the FAI scrutineering (pre-contest, takes only 10 minutes to calculate). The morning reference weight confirmation adds only 30 seconds to each competitor's trip out to the grid. This small detail provides a very level playing field for all our 18m competitors. Ultimately, having all competitors confirmed at 9.7 lb./ft. wing-loading makes for an extremely enjoyable racing experience (vs, for example, handicap US rules competitions).

Is everyone towing out with the glider tail on a car towbar adaptor, or all using a rope, or a mixture?

Tom Kelley #711

March 31st 17, 05:25 PM

No mixture, just car tow-bars are being used here. Very easy and convenient. A lot faster than what we normally do when we weight at a US contest.

Don't even remove the wing wheel or balance the wings, simply tow on to scale, they see the reference weight, if needed we drop a gallon or so of water. Roll off.

Today is rest day (weather). Maybe tomorrow but could be a blue day with 4-5000 height band.

Best. #711.

Bruce Hoult

March 31st 17, 09:22 PM

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 7:25:48 PM UTC+3, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> No mixture, just car tow-bars are being used here. Very easy and convenient. A lot faster than what we normally do when we weight at a US contest.
>
> Don't even remove the wing wheel or balance the wings, simply tow on to scale, they see the reference weight, if needed we drop a gallon or so of water. Roll off.
>
> Today is rest day (weather). Maybe tomorrow but could be a blue day with 4-5000 height band.
>
> Best. #711.

I was just thinking of an incident where a competitor was towing out with a rope or with a tail-on-towbar gizmo on different days, depending on whether there was a tail wind (towbar) or a head wind (rope) at the weigh point :-)

Dan Marotta

March 31st 17, 09:57 PM

Yaaas... If there's a headwind and he's on a rope, he may very well
benefit from the lift generated by the wind on the leading edges. I
wonder what flap setting is used... 8-)

On 3/31/2017 2:22 PM, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 7:25:48 PM UTC+3, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
>> No mixture, just car tow-bars are being used here. Very easy and convenient. A lot faster than what we normally do when we weight at a US contest.
>>
>> Don't even remove the wing wheel or balance the wings, simply tow on to scale, they see the reference weight, if needed we drop a gallon or so of water. Roll off.
>>
>> Today is rest day (weather). Maybe tomorrow but could be a blue day with 4-5000 height band.
>>
>> Best. #711.
> I was just thinking of an incident where a competitor was towing out with a rope or with a tail-on-towbar gizmo on different days, depending on whether there was a tail wind (towbar) or a head wind (rope) at the weigh point :-)

--
Dan, 5J

Andrzej Kobus

March 31st 17, 09:57 PM

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 4:23:00 PM UTC-4, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 7:25:48 PM UTC+3, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> > No mixture, just car tow-bars are being used here. Very easy and convenient. A lot faster than what we normally do when we weight at a US contest.
> >
> > Don't even remove the wing wheel or balance the wings, simply tow on to scale, they see the reference weight, if needed we drop a gallon or so of water. Roll off.
> >
> > Today is rest day (weather). Maybe tomorrow but could be a blue day with 4-5000 height band.
> >
> > Best. #711.
>
> I was just thinking of an incident where a competitor was towing out with a rope or with a tail-on-towbar gizmo on different days, depending on whether there was a tail wind (towbar) or a head wind (rope) at the weigh point :-)

and adjust the flaps accordingly

[email protected]

March 31st 17, 10:03 PM

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 12:25:48 PM UTC-4, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> No mixture, just car tow-bars are being used here. Very easy and convenient. A lot faster than what we normally do when we weight at a US contest.
>
> Don't even remove the wing wheel or balance the wings, simply tow on to scale, they see the reference weight, if needed we drop a gallon or so of water. Roll off.
>
> Today is rest day (weather). Maybe tomorrow but could be a blue day with 4-5000 height band.
>
> Best. #711.
in Tom's case he is using a motorcycle to tow out

Tom Kelley #711

March 31st 17, 11:35 PM

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 5:03:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 12:25:48 PM UTC-4, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
> > No mixture, just car tow-bars are being used here. Very easy and convenient. A lot faster than what we normally do when we weight at a US contest.
> >
> > Don't even remove the wing wheel or balance the wings, simply tow on to scale, they see the reference weight, if needed we drop a gallon or so of water. Roll off.
> >
> > Today is rest day (weather). Maybe tomorrow but could be a blue day with 4-5000 height band.
> >
> > Best. #711.
> in Tom's case he is using a motorcycle to tow out

Yes, it has a tow bar and am weighed with the tow bar hooked up to both glider and motorcycle when my reference weight is done(wing wheel also is on). Whether its at the WGC or say here, you are watched to make sure your in the same configuration as when scrutineered(was done in a enclosed hanger as is the same at the WGC). The scrutineering team also does the weighting. We also have a FAI referee who watches over us. If your even 3-4 pounds over, you dump some water.
Heck, they even check the parachute card for the correct repack date and the glider logbook for its last annual. I was ready to even bend over and grab my ankles. :>))).
Ahhhh, also many thanks to the NAA on my renewal for the Sporting license. I did a online renewal on Sunday evening and with our CD's help, it was done at 9:01 am Monday morning. Am using the IGC droid on my cell. Works great.. Maybe 6 plus hours of use and have a cell battery charger if needed.

I believe they are also using this same procedure at Cordele for the Nationals on weighing??? Not sure, just talk I heard.

When we are weighed, the whole group is on the way to the grid and the wind remains fairly constance doing this short period. We all drive on the same way and off.

Its been a well run contest, very good task calls, great dinners and the weather guy is doing a great job. Tony's presentation is to the point, he's been wearing only one hat...that's white for CU's. We have had great weather compared to the Seniors and do wish they would consider moving back the Seniors a few weeks. Am better adjusted to the time change after a few weeks myself.

What's unusual during this time frame is am not seeing many migrating flocks heading north bound. Also, several YouTube videos are available and maybe tomorrow am told they will do live tracking.

Am using the ClearNav XC vario......its thermal assistance is good and simply the best I have used. It updates 5 times a second when thermaling and does paint a great picture of what's going on.

Best. Tom #711.

Sean Fidler

April 1st 17, 01:04 PM

Good morning sailplane racing 🏁 fans! The final day of FAI Sailplane Grand Prix USA 🇺🇸 is here. Jerzy Szemplinski has an 8 point lead but second thru fifth place (Sean Fidler, Tom Kelley, Jim Lee and Rich Owen) is still extremely tight. Who will stand on the podium tonight? Who will qualify (top 2) for the FAI SGP final in Santiago, Chile 🇨🇱 this fall?

Follow the action (tracking, reports, etc.) here: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017.aspx

Today's weather looks solid but for the first time in a week it will be completely blue: Here is the early forecast from Davis Straub:

National Weather Service forecast:

Sunny, with a high near 87. Calm wind becoming north northeast around 5 mph in the morning.

NAM forecast:

2 PM
800 - 1,000 fpm lift
4,000' - 5,000' top of lift
No cu's
3 mph west wind at 2,000'
3 mph west wind at 30'

5 PM
500 - 600 fpm lift
5,000' - 6,000' top of lift
No cu's
8 mph west wind at 2,000'
7 mph west wind at 30'

Skysight forecast:

1 PM
400 - 450 fpm lift
3,000' - 4,000' top of lift
No cu's
6 - 8 knot west wind at 2,000'
2 knot northeast wind at 30'

4 PM
400 - 450 fpm lift
4,000' - 5,000' top of lift
No cu's
6 - 8 knot west wind at 2,000'
2 - 4 knot northwest wind at 30'

Tony[_5_]

April 1st 17, 10:58 PM

North half of the task was blue. South half clouds. I found my best climb in the edge of the blue to get high enough for a squeeker final glide. Finished 2nd!

Duster

April 1st 17, 11:56 PM

Jerzy Szemplinsk and Sean Fidler finished 1,2 overall, so I assume the top two places qualify for the SGP finals in Chile next year? Congrats to all, esp SF who wore so many hats at this contest.

://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=28476

Sean Fidler

April 2nd 17, 03:06 AM

Congratulations to today's final Race 6 winners:
1st - Jon Gatfield - United Kingdom - ASG-29
2nd - Tony Condon - USA - JS1a
3rd - Rich Owen - USA - ASG-29e

Congratulations to our overall winners:
1st - Jerzy Szemplinski - ASG29 - Canada
2nd - Sean Fidler - ASG29 - USA
3rd - Tom Kelley - ASG29 - USA

Awards, Oakwood Smokehouse catered ribs, and plenty of beer and wine for dinner this evening.

What an incredibly fun week!

Juanman

April 2nd 17, 02:39 PM

Congratulations Jerzy and Sean! Now to learn how to polish rocks in the Chilean Andes in January!

Juan
Z8

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:06:39 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Congratulations to today's final Race 6 winners:
> 1st - Jon Gatfield - United Kingdom - ASG-29
> 2nd - Tony Condon - USA - JS1a
> 3rd - Rich Owen - USA - ASG-29e
>
> Congratulations to our overall winners:
> 1st - Jerzy Szemplinski - ASG29 - Canada
> 2nd - Sean Fidler - ASG29 - USA
> 3rd - Tom Kelley - ASG29 - USA
>
> Awards, Oakwood Smokehouse catered ribs, and plenty of beer and wine for dinner this evening.
>
> What an incredibly fun week!

Juanman[_2_]

April 4th 17, 10:22 PM

Why were Robin and Sergei disqualified on Day 5? Airspace violation? Same as with the penalties a reason would be helpful.

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:06:39 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Congratulations to today's final Race 6 winners:
> 1st - Jon Gatfield - United Kingdom - ASG-29
> 2nd - Tony Condon - USA - JS1a
> 3rd - Rich Owen - USA - ASG-29e
>
> Congratulations to our overall winners:
> 1st - Jerzy Szemplinski - ASG29 - Canada
> 2nd - Sean Fidler - ASG29 - USA
> 3rd - Tom Kelley - ASG29 - USA
>
> Awards, Oakwood Smokehouse catered ribs, and plenty of beer and wine for dinner this evening.
>
> What an incredibly fun week!

Tony[_5_]

April 4th 17, 11:32 PM

Agree with you Juanman. One was manuever g against the flow of traffic and the other perpendicular to traffic during the start. It's a pretty harsh penalty, obviously.

Sean Fidler

April 5th 17, 01:31 AM

The way both of these great pilots handled the penalty was some of the most sportsmanlike and gentlemanly behavior I have ever seen in sports. Both pilots addressed the others at the next morning's pilots meeting, explained their mistake in great detail using SeeYou to illustrate, and made several suggestions on improving the interface/task programming to make the semi-circle (no turns allowed area) more visible in the flight computer. CD John Godfrey did an excellent job handling as well, and the whole group (pilots and others) learned a great deal as a by-product of these penalties. The suggestions were partially simply improving our understanding of the SGP starting rules "intent," but also discussed methods for avoiding the risk of the penalty in general.

Bottom line, gliders must not turn when close to the starting line (time & distance) and a "perfect start" means very little to nothing in the grand scheme of the SGP competition format. The idea is to have a safe start. The race begins with strategy decisions out on course, well away from the starting line. All the pilots must find a way to beat their competitors without the luxury of choosing to start well behind/in-front of their competitors or by flying in vastly different areas to gain an advantage.

For those of you interested in the SGP rules, here they are: http://sgpstorage.blob.core.windows.net/sgpmedia/1521338/sgp-rules-v8.0.pdf

[email protected]

April 5th 17, 02:47 PM

By far the greatest soaring race in recent years! Well done competitors, well done!

What the rest of the world has enjoyed is now here in the USA and in beautiful sunny florida. This should be an annual event, just like the Daytona 500 is in Florida.

I was hanging on the the race with every second!

Soooo much better than a TAT or MAT event (not a race) where gliders are going every direction and a spectators can't follow it.

The Grand Prix is racing. And the winners are worthy of their title. There's just too much dumb luck in the TAT's and MAT's. This style racing proves a REAL WINNER.

Congratulations Jerzy!

Juanman[_2_]

April 5th 17, 05:44 PM

Thanks for the clarification. Sound like something that needs to be included in greater detail in the pre contest briefings.

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 8:31:49 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> The way both of these great pilots handled the penalty was some of the most sportsmanlike and gentlemanly behavior I have ever seen in sports. Both pilots addressed the others at the next morning's pilots meeting, explained their mistake in great detail using SeeYou to illustrate, and made several suggestions on improving the interface/task programming to make the semi-circle (no turns allowed area) more visible in the flight computer. CD John Godfrey did an excellent job handling as well, and the whole group (pilots and others) learned a great deal as a by-product of these penalties. The suggestions were partially simply improving our understanding of the SGP starting rules "intent," but also discussed methods for avoiding the risk of the penalty in general.
>
> Bottom line, gliders must not turn when close to the starting line (time & distance) and a "perfect start" means very little to nothing in the grand scheme of the SGP competition format. The idea is to have a safe start. The race begins with strategy decisions out on course, well away from the starting line. All the pilots must find a way to beat their competitors without the luxury of choosing to start well behind/in-front of their competitors or by flying in vastly different areas to gain an advantage.
>
> For those of you interested in the SGP rules, here they are: http://sgpstorage.blob.core.windows.net/sgpmedia/1521338/sgp-rules-v8.0.pdf

Sean Fidler

April 5th 17, 08:51 PM

Jaun,

My pleasure.

Sean

Ron Gleason

April 5th 17, 10:08 PM

On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 13:51:45 UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Jaun,
>
> My pleasure.
>
> Sean

Appears to have been a well run contest and great weather.

Question: What do you believe is the maximum number of competitors for a SGP? IS the limit due to resources, i.e tow planes, airfield, contest format, or other?

Thanks in advance

Ron Gleason

Sean Fidler

April 6th 17, 12:00 AM

First, there are many others with greater experience in SGP. I have now done 3.5 Grand Prix. Seminole Lake a few years ago (informal series), and then the FAI SGP events at Ionia, USA, Horsham, Australia and last week at Orlando, USA.

The FAI SGP format limits the pilots to 20. This seems wise. More than 20 would be crowded. I have very much enjoyed the 10-15 we have had in Ionia, Horsham and Orlando.

For other similar SGP racing formats (such as the "Nephi Games" this summer), I believe that the answer depends on the skill level of the pilots and the location of the event/flying conditions. Higher stronger, more. Lower, weaker, less. Other tweaks could be made such as increasing the length of the starting line, encouraging opportunities for separation at the start by providing options for the pilots in terms of choosing their first clouds or terrain feature to shoot for upon starting.

Huge numbers in one heat are not really the goal, quality, and fun is. If you had 60 gliders who wanted to fly SGP, I would prefer to do 5 waves of 12 sorted by pilot skill level and/or glider handicap, etc and then separate each start by 10 minutes.

I am also thinking of a new format. Match racing. 2 gliders, SGP format (starting line, countdown start, assigned racing task, finish line).

Sean

Sean Fidler

April 6th 17, 02:38 PM

Ron, I fully agree that there needs to be good value for the organizers/clubs/Comm operations to hold soaring contests or events. No question.

That said, SGP USA 🇺🇸 worked very well financially for 12 pilots last week in Florida. I suppose it depends how lavish the pilots want to be with meals, events, event gear, etc. We went fairly lavish and still did very well, with the same entry fee as the Seniors.

We (the whole team) provided a great event at Seminole with 4 catered dinners (3 on-site, one at Red Wing), great daily medals, participation medals and overall awards), drinks and snacks each night, light breakfast food and coffee every morning and we even included very cool FAI SGP event gear for all the pilots and volunteers (SoaringXX).

Personally, I would much rather compete in more of these simple, clean and efficient events of 12 similar gliders (with pilots of similar skill level) than deal with 65 gliders and multiple start lines, tasks and classes. What a pain! Our event last week did not have to battle with 65 gliders each day on the grid. Our launch time was around 20 minutes for 12 watered gliders (without straining). Our landings were not overcrowded or stressful. Our parties and dinners were relaxed and cozy (30-40 people included crews, SOS, volunteers and friends). In addition, and very unlike the Seniors event (for example), Seminole Lake Gliderport was fully able to run its commercial and training operations all SGP USA week with minimal interference from our event (short shut downs for our launch and finish only). The need to stop commercial and training operations for the seniors contest (a week plus) is very costly to their operations. From a management perspective, that lose in revenue subtracts significantly from any profit the event supposedly realizes.

So, I think there is also something to be said for a future with more small, "very high quality" soaring competitions in addition to the "SSAs traditionally coveted" very large events which are very complicated and disruptive to manage (to say the least).

Sean

[email protected]

April 6th 17, 06:17 PM

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 8:38:43 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Ron, I fully agree that there needs to be good value for the organizers/clubs/Comm operations to hold soaring contests or events. No question.
>
> That said, SGP USA 🇺🇸 worked very well financially for 12 pilots last week in Florida. I suppose it depends how lavish the pilots want to be with meals, events, event gear, etc. We went fairly lavish and still did very well, with the same entry fee as the Seniors.
>
> We (the whole team) provided a great event at Seminole with 4 catered dinners (3 on-site, one at Red Wing), great daily medals, participation medals and overall awards), drinks and snacks each night, light breakfast food and coffee every morning and we even included very cool FAI SGP event gear for all the pilots and volunteers (SoaringXX).
>
> Personally, I would much rather compete in more of these simple, clean and efficient events of 12 similar gliders (with pilots of similar skill level) than deal with 65 gliders and multiple start lines, tasks and classes. What a pain! Our event last week did not have to battle with 65 gliders each day on the grid. Our launch time was around 20 minutes for 12 watered gliders (without straining). Our landings were not overcrowded or stressful.. Our parties and dinners were relaxed and cozy (30-40 people included crews, SOS, volunteers and friends). In addition, and very unlike the Seniors event (for example), Seminole Lake Gliderport was fully able to run its commercial and training operations all SGP USA week with minimal interference from our event (short shut downs for our launch and finish only). The need to stop commercial and training operations for the seniors contest (a week plus) is very costly to their operations. From a management perspective, that lose in revenue subtracts significantly from any profit the event supposedly realizes.
>
> So, I think there is also something to be said for a future with more small, "very high quality" soaring competitions in addition to the "SSAs traditionally coveted" very large events which are very complicated and disruptive to manage (to say the least).
>
> Sean

Sean, I very much appreciate you organizing another SGP event and successfully and safely doing so. I followed all flights with much interest. However, I wonder why you have to take cheap shots at other organizers who without doubt invest just as much sweat and tears into their "complicated and disruptive(?) contests" with - oh the horror - up to 65 participants. Putting others down to toot your own horn is childish and does not help your cause. It seems you can only 'win' when others lose. I'm tempted to make a comparison to a well known politician here but will refrain. Please tune down your constant self-promotion, it's getting stale.
Thanks,
Herb

Paul Agnew

April 6th 17, 07:02 PM

Small point of order... SLGP did not completely shut down their daily operations during Seniors. They appeared very active in the mornings before grid time and again after the contest finish. In fact, during the first pilot meeting, I timed their Blanik doing rope breaks/returns and relauches in less than five minutes for each cycle. Their regular business was curtailed, of course, but not shut down by the Seniors.

PA

Sean Fidler

April 7th 17, 02:49 PM

Paul,

Even if they were able to "squeak in" a few flights each AM (before the grid march begins and the single runway becomes unsafe) and also squeak in a few more flights in the evening after the last few seniors land and get off the runway, the fact remains that the annual seniors event results in a significant disruption to their core business and schedule and therefore results in a significant loss of normal operational revenue (which therefore must be subtracted from any 'net profit' realized by the seniors event to accurately represent the financial benifit of the seniors event to the commercial operation). They have to clear their schedule in order to not irritate customers, etc. This was stated openly and in no uncertain terms. It's no secret.

My point is that very large soaring contests are not always as efficient as we would like to believe, especially when they impact normal commercial operations (or nearly shut them down entirely). In the case of the seniors event, it's not just the contest dates that are disruptive. Normal operations are impacted for many weeks before and perhaps a week after the contest itself. Tows are not as profitable as instruction and commercial rides, especially when they disrupt the normal schedule and likely reduce them for a long period of time.

Again, small efficient soaring contests (such as the FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando) seem to have very minor normal operation impacts (if any) are highly efficient. They allow for reasonably increased revenue for the operation without subverting their normal operations and disrupting their schedule (stress). This was very refreshing for them. This was their feedback, not mine.

Sean

Dan Marotta

April 7th 17, 04:48 PM

Am I to understand that the glider port remains closed for the duration
of the contest flights (until all gliders return)? Why wouldn't they
reopen for business once the gliders are all launched?

On 4/7/2017 7:49 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Even if they were able to "squeak in" a few flights each AM (before the grid march begins and the single runway becomes unsafe) and also squeak in a few more flights in the evening after the last few seniors land and get off the runway, the fact remains that the annual seniors event results in a significant disruption to their core business and schedule and therefore results in a significant loss of normal operational revenue (which therefore must be subtracted from any 'net profit' realized by the seniors event to accurately represent the financial benifit of the seniors event to the commercial operation). They have to clear their schedule in order to not irritate customers, etc. This was stated openly and in no uncertain terms. It's no secret.
>
> My point is that very large soaring contests are not always as efficient as we would like to believe, especially when they impact normal commercial operations (or nearly shut them down entirely). In the case of the seniors event, it's not just the contest dates that are disruptive. Normal operations are impacted for many weeks before and perhaps a week after the contest itself. Tows are not as profitable as instruction and commercial rides, especially when they disrupt the normal schedule and likely reduce them for a long period of time.
>
> Again, small efficient soaring contests (such as the FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando) seem to have very minor normal operation impacts (if any) are highly efficient. They allow for reasonably increased revenue for the operation without subverting their normal operations and disrupting their schedule (stress). This was very refreshing for them. This was their feedback, not mine.
>
> Sean

--
Dan, 5J

Bruce Hoult

April 7th 17, 07:36 PM

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 6:48:16 PM UTC+3, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Am I to understand that the glider port remains closed for the duration
> of the contest flights (until all gliders return)? Why wouldn't they
> reopen for business once the gliders are all launched?
>
>
> On 4/7/2017 7:49 AM, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > Paul,
> >
> > Even if they were able to "squeak in" a few flights each AM (before the grid march begins and the single runway becomes unsafe) and also squeak in a few more flights in the evening after the last few seniors land and get off the runway, the fact remains that the annual seniors event results in a significant disruption to their core business and schedule and therefore results in a significant loss of normal operational revenue (which therefore must be subtracted from any 'net profit' realized by the seniors event to accurately represent the financial benifit of the seniors event to the commercial operation). They have to clear their schedule in order to not irritate customers, etc. This was stated openly and in no uncertain terms. It's no secret.
> >
> > My point is that very large soaring contests are not always as efficient as we would like to believe, especially when they impact normal commercial operations (or nearly shut them down entirely). In the case of the seniors event, it's not just the contest dates that are disruptive. Normal operations are impacted for many weeks before and perhaps a week after the contest itself. Tows are not as profitable as instruction and commercial rides, especially when they disrupt the normal schedule and likely reduce them for a long period of time.
> >
> > Again, small efficient soaring contests (such as the FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando) seem to have very minor normal operation impacts (if any) are highly efficient. They allow for reasonably increased revenue for the operation without subverting their normal operations and disrupting their schedule (stress). This was very refreshing for them. This was their feedback, not mine.

Yeah, that seems weird. I've never seen that happen in New Zealand. The contest had priority for launching, of course, but as soon as they're gone it's business as usual. Even when we had the worlds here, I'd often watch the launch, and then once the contest gliders had gone, I'd go up in a libelle and have a nice day. I can't remember whether lanches were happening while contest gliders were finishing, but non-contest gliders were certainly in the local area or returning to the field and landing at the same time. Not early solo students, certainly :-)

[email protected]

April 7th 17, 10:48 PM

I certainly can't speak for Seminole but I wonder if that, for a well-establish event like the Seniors, some--maybe even much--of that "lost"revenue is actually pushed to the week(s) before or after the contest by guests who are already aware or are advised about the potential conflict ahead of time..

Walk-in traffic would be affected--especially if operations close for an entire contest day. But on the other hand, such traffic might increase because of the publicity of the event. I also wonder how many pilots arrive a week early for the contest to practice and/or schedule trips at other times who wouldn't otherwise even know much about Seminole.

Taking a more comprehensive, long-term view, I suspect it's a more complex and less zero-sum game than has been described.

Chip Bearden

Sean Fidler

April 8th 17, 02:05 PM

🥂🍾🍹🍺

Here is to a little well placed spin! 😉

I'm all for large contests. But I'll admit that I am shocked by how much nicer small ones can be. So was the staff and participants at the recents SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando. I had the same experience in Australia 🇦🇺. The WGC in Benalla was amazing, but the SGP Australia in Horsham was a much more fun event! This sentiment was similar for the other competitors.

Large contests are clearly much more stressful in many ways. They also carry higher risk. The seniors event is a massive operation for a very small airfield to endure. It is very, very stressful on the staff (stop kidding yourselves). I continue to stand firmly behind that statement. Let's just be honest about it, shall we?

So at the risk of further blasphemy, I think that it is worthwhile to make some points about the virtues of smaller, more efficient soaring competitions. Huge contests are not easy for the pilots or the organizers. They can be fairly inefficient. Remember last year a certain event where a certain class often started launching at 3:30 pm? Please 😂.

The contrast for everyone in Seminole was stunning considering the FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 event was held a week after the seniors event ended. In addition to being FAR less disruptive, it's also important to point out that the smaller contest is far easier to manage and safer (1/6 the gliders, similar gliders identical wing loadings). A small event made up of nearly identical gliders, IMO, equals far higher competition quality for the competitors and results considerably more fun for the pilots (and staff, and spectators, etc.). Just ask them. We could literally see it on the faces of the pilots (and staff). Several articulated their relief openly. We did not have to deal with all the waiting around trying to grid and launch. We had far more room for parking. We had far more room to move the gliders. It was more relaxing, etc. Everything was dramatically more manageable. Good things, no?

In the air, the often intense traffic and gaggles which the seniors contest experiences (especially in the start area) is basically eliminated. I won't go into specific examples, but there were several from what I heard. Furthermore, our assigned tasking meant no airspace infringements. Any experienced CD will tell you that wide TAT competitors (such as this years seniors) are much more likely to wander into closed or restricted airspace. This happened in this years seniors several times I believe...B, D... As FAI SGP events use a simple start line and regatta start, there was no confusion as to which direction the competitors are going (and when to start) as is common in "open start" scenarios in traditional rules. Finally, the intense traffic sometimes experienced in the contest landing pattern during the 65 sailplane strong seniors (especially after very short TAT tasks) is significantly reduced or eliminated in SGP. As the SGP is a race around a set course (meaning the leaders actually finish ahead, not at the same time having travelled further), we rarely have two gliders enter the finish area or landing pattern at the same time. If the SGP competitors do finish together, they are well aware of each other (after racing to beat eachother!) and therefore landing behavior is highly predictable for them.

It sure seems to make sense to me to consider the value of high quality, smaller events...but go ahead, keep telling yourselves everything about 65 gliders crammed into a tiny airfield is just great 👍! That's not 🦇 **** crazy at all...

Cheers 🍻

Sean

Rich Owen[_2_]

April 8th 17, 09:06 PM

Bruce, Herb & Chip, For the Seniors we did training/rides right up to the end of the pilots meeting. During the march to the grid the airport is effectively closed to operations. Once the competitors are launched, we go back to training operations and local pilots can fly. Student training stops around the expected arrival time of the competitors.
For the Sailplane Grand Prix we did not completely block the runway during movement to the grid and training was less disrupted. We flew before and after the arrival of the gaggle and we didn't have any issues.
Giving priority to the contest participants did not cause any problems for our local pilots, instructors or customers. Everyone enjoyed the extra excitement and the competitors were more than hospitable when asked questions by our guests.
As a company, we enjoyed hosting both events. Of course if the SGP was a 60+ ship event we would not have been able to do it so close to the Seniors. All of our volunteers were pretty tired after the Seniors but looked forward to a different style event. The ability to watch the race in near time was a big plus. Everyone enjoyed the SGP and we would be honored to host the event again if asked. The work put into this event by Sean and Tiffany made our job so much easier! They are a hard working, duel threat offense, that is making our sport better.

Best Regards,
Rich Owen
ZO

[email protected]

April 9th 17, 01:36 AM

I'll jump in as one of the organizers for the Nephi events every year:

We have pushed hard to maximize the 65 spots allowed by insurance. If insurance allowed us to have 70 spots, at Nephi we would probably have 70 spots since we now seem to end up with 65 spots taken and still another 35+ on the waiting list. Why? We hate to turn away pilots who want to come fly. Also, running a contest in Nephi right now requires that we bring the entire show and supporting cast into town. Someday when Nephi is a year round soaring base this will lesson some of our costs.

I am not at all offended by Sean's comments. In fact I completely agree with them and him. If we limited Nephi events to only 30 gliders, we could give everyone who can get into the event a better time. We would also be turning away 70+ pilots. It is tricky. Nephi events are already pretty expensive for the pilots.

At a popular location like Nephi, do we reduce event pilot count in half and double the price to attend, or do we keep stuffing every available spot and keep trying to look for ways to make it easier on pilots? One example of our working on this is putting in a watering station at every tie down. It cost many thousands of dollars and took many hundreds of man hours to design and install. Pain yes, but it worked amazing last year at the nationals. Pilots attending Nephi events can water their planes at the tie down and don't have to move until heading out to the grid. We will keep trying to make things easier and run faster for the big crowds. Thanks for your understanding and patience.

Again - I completely agree with Sean that small events would be likely the best experience for the participating pilots, but with all the work and effort we put in (at least at Nephi), right now we can only see making it work by doing one huge event per year. We just don't have the energy or man power to do multiple smaller events per year. We tried that twice over a couple of years, had a blast, and almost killed ourselves putting on two events in a year. I am surprised Ron will still talk to me! Haha.

Thanks Sean for all the work you put into the SGP and for the work and efforts you will be putting in at near future soaring events! ;)

Bruno - B4

Bruce Hoult

April 9th 17, 01:59 AM

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 3:36:46 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> I'll jump in as one of the organizers for the Nephi events every year:
>
> We have pushed hard to maximize the 65 spots allowed by insurance. If insurance allowed us to have 70 spots, at Nephi we would probably have 70 spots

What makes "insurance" decide that 65 is the right number?

Frank Whiteley

April 9th 17, 06:27 AM

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 6:59:17 PM UTC-6, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 3:36:46 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> > I'll jump in as one of the organizers for the Nephi events every year:
> >
> > We have pushed hard to maximize the 65 spots allowed by insurance. If insurance allowed us to have 70 spots, at Nephi we would probably have 70 spots
>
> What makes "insurance" decide that 65 is the right number?

The 65 maximum is stated explicitly in the rules. As for the foundation for that maximum, I can't say how it evolved.

Craig Reinholt

April 9th 17, 03:50 PM

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:59:17 PM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 3:36:46 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> > I'll jump in as one of the organizers for the Nephi events every year:
> >
> > We have pushed hard to maximize the 65 spots allowed by insurance. If insurance allowed us to have 70 spots, at Nephi we would probably have 70 spots
>
> What makes "insurance" decide that 65 is the right number

Bruce,
SSA (Soaring Society of America) states in the competition rules that there is a maximum of 65 gliders per event. While the Nephi gathering is not a "competition", Bruno (CM) uses the SSA to get insurance and therefore has to abide by their rules. I'm sure he has looked into private insurance and I'm guessing that cost was prohibitive.

Sean Fidler

April 9th 17, 04:33 PM

Guys its all good and everyone involved with these events are great people. Especially the organizers who really go above and beyond in almost every case.

My only point here is that a smaller event can be great too, and have many virtues which I feel are overlooked.

Looking forward to this summer already. Good luck to everyone on the great range of events and contests which are scheduled.

Back into hiding...

Sean

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 10:50:26 AM UTC-4, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:59:17 PM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 3:36:46 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> > > I'll jump in as one of the organizers for the Nephi events every year:
> > >
> > > We have pushed hard to maximize the 65 spots allowed by insurance. If insurance allowed us to have 70 spots, at Nephi we would probably have 70 spots
> >
> > What makes "insurance" decide that 65 is the right number
>
> Bruce,
> SSA (Soaring Society of America) states in the competition rules that there is a maximum of 65 gliders per event. While the Nephi gathering is not a "competition", Bruno (CM) uses the SSA to get insurance and therefore has to abide by their rules. I'm sure he has looked into private insurance and I'm guessing that cost was prohibitive.

Sean Fidler

April 9th 17, 04:37 PM

Here are some videos (SeeYou replays) of the first two SGP USA Orlando races...

https://www.youtube.com/user/faisailplanegp/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=0

These might be fun for some of you to watch. You can download the IGC files yourself by clicking here:

http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=28476

Then click view on the right of each pilot's stats, then IGC log tab on the top.

Sorry no mass download option but only 12 pilots...

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 7:23:37 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> SGP USA begins today at Seminole Lake Gliderport near Orlando, Florida.
>
> Website: www.sgp.aero/usa2017
>
> Live tracking: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/race-coverage/race-tracking.aspx?contestID=28476
>
> Facebook: @FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA
>
> Yesterday's practice race results: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=28476

Bruce Hoult

April 9th 17, 10:28 PM

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 5:50:26 PM UTC+3, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:59:17 PM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 3:36:46 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> > > I'll jump in as one of the organizers for the Nephi events every year:
> > >
> > > We have pushed hard to maximize the 65 spots allowed by insurance. If insurance allowed us to have 70 spots, at Nephi we would probably have 70 spots
> >
> > What makes "insurance" decide that 65 is the right number
>
> Bruce,
> SSA (Soaring Society of America) states in the competition rules that there is a maximum of 65 gliders per event. While the Nephi gathering is not a "competition", Bruno (CM) uses the SSA to get insurance and therefore has to abide by their rules. I'm sure he has looked into private insurance and I'm guessing that cost was prohibitive.

Well, I guess it's a good problem to have.

That doesn't mean it's not a problem!

Sean Fidler

April 9th 17, 11:52 PM

Race 3 SeeYou Replay...

https://youtu.be/HVzCCfjBOUQ

Tony[_5_]

April 10th 17, 12:47 AM

Fun to relive. I for one think they should bring back the option for a bonus point for being first to a turnpoint ;)

Rich Owen[_2_]

April 10th 17, 12:03 PM

I agree!! Even if it were only a half point, but make it first to each turnpoint adds a nice mix to the equation. Like sprint points in a cycling race. It is easier to follow in a higher altitude position and use the last legs to gather up those who took the most risk. Collecting points enroute would encourage more risk taking by everyone and make for a more interesting race. I might change my strategy (I tried 2 different ones based on length of task) next time if bonus points weren't an option but then again, who wants to follow for that long!! I'd rather fly with Tony!!

Rich
ZO

Sean Fidler

April 10th 17, 03:22 PM

I actually tried to enact the bonus point on the practice day but the FAI removed that option from the SGP rules this year. Maybe we need to lobby for it to be re-enabled? If I were Tony I would be doing this already behind thebscenes! ;-). Or maybe we can ask for a waiver? I like the idea.

Also, in regards to task length, we were supposed to target 2-3 hours so we had a couple tasks (430 km, etc.) that were a 'touch' long but it was great to take advantage of that amazing Florida soaring weather.

Sean

[email protected]

April 10th 17, 03:23 PM

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 10:33:28 AM UTC-5, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Guys its all good and everyone involved with these events are great people. Especially the organizers who really go above and beyond in almost every case.
>
> My only point here is that a smaller event can be great too, and have many virtues which I feel are overlooked.
>
> Looking forward to this summer already. Good luck to everyone on the great range of events and contests which are scheduled.
>
> Back into hiding...
>
> Sean
>
>
> On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 10:50:26 AM UTC-4, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:59:17 PM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 3:36:46 AM UTC+3, wrote:
> > > > I'll jump in as one of the organizers for the Nephi events every year:
> > > >
> > > > We have pushed hard to maximize the 65 spots allowed by insurance. If insurance allowed us to have 70 spots, at Nephi we would probably have 70 spots
> > >
> > > What makes "insurance" decide that 65 is the right number
> >
> > Bruce,
> > SSA (Soaring Society of America) states in the competition rules that there is a maximum of 65 gliders per event. While the Nephi gathering is not a "competition", Bruno (CM) uses the SSA to get insurance and therefore has to abide by their rules. I'm sure he has looked into private insurance and I'm guessing that cost was prohibitive.

Fully agree with Sean, small contests are fun and less stressful for all. But we already have plenty of those. Check out most Regionals and you will find few with more than 25-30 gliders signed up. The last couple of contests for example at New Castle VA, one of the most scenic and welcoming places to soar, were at that level and the organizers are getting concerned about covering the costs (we used to have a limit of 42 that was often reached). If you prefer such a lower stress environment for your flying, you have plenty of choices. Not sure that is all good, though.

Sean Fidler

April 10th 17, 03:28 PM

I actually tried to enact the bonus point but the FAI removed the option from the SGP rules this year. Maybe we need to lobby for it to be re-enabled? If I was Tony (or ZO or 711) I would be doing so already behind the scenes! ;-). Maybe we can ask for a waiver? I personally love the idea of a bonus point at the mid-point of the task.

In regards to task length, we are supposed to target 2-3 hour races. We had a couple tasks (430 km, etc.) that were a 'touch' long (per FAI recommendations) but it was great to take advantage of the amazing Florida soaring weather we had that week.

Sean
7T

Ron Gleason

April 10th 17, 03:57 PM

On Monday, 10 April 2017 08:28:42 UTC-6, Sean Fidler wrote:
> I actually tried to enact the bonus point but the FAI removed the option from the SGP rules this year. Maybe we need to lobby for it to be re-enabled? If I was Tony (or ZO or 711) I would be doing so already behind the scenes! ;-). Maybe we can ask for a waiver? I personally love the idea of a bonus point at the mid-point of the task.
>
> In regards to task length, we are supposed to target 2-3 hour races. We had a couple tasks (430 km, etc.) that were a 'touch' long (per FAI recommendations) but it was great to take advantage of the amazing Florida soaring weather we had that week.
>
> Sean
> 7T

Scoring creep? One of the stated desires or outcome of the SGP format is 'who crosses the line first is the winner'. If you can get a point for getting to the turnpoint first, lets take day 3 with seven turnpoints including the steering point, cannot you not really skew the outcome and results? If someone gets to 5 of the turnpoints first and finished 5th they would get 10 points, the same as the winner. Not sure this is the desired outcome. I cannot find previous versions of the SGP rules to see if there was a cap to the number turnpoint points a pilot could get for a given flight. There are various ways to address this but it strays from the simplicity of the format

Steve Leonard[_2_]

April 10th 17, 04:21 PM

On Monday, April 10, 2017 at 9:57:56 AM UTC-5, Ron Gleason wrote:
> Scoring creep? One of the stated desires or outcome of the SGP format is 'who crosses the line first is the winner'. If you can get a point for getting to the turnpoint first, lets take day 3 with seven turnpoints including the steering point, cannot you not really skew the outcome and results? If someone gets to 5 of the turnpoints first and finished 5th they would get 10 points, the same as the winner. Not sure this is the desired outcome.. I cannot find previous versions of the SGP rules to see if there was a cap to the number turnpoint points a pilot could get for a given flight. There are various ways to address this but it strays from the simplicity of the format

I think the "Bonus Point" was for being first to a specific turnpoint, only one allowed per day, and declared at the pilot's meeting. So, only one extra point allowed for someone each day. And did you notice that there was a bonus point awarded to the winner of the last day?

Steve Leonard

Paul Agnew

April 10th 17, 05:26 PM

Wasn't this one of the plot points in American Flyers? Race ahead of the and grab the bonus points? (Seconds in the movie.)

PA

[email protected]

April 10th 17, 07:55 PM

Sorry for being a little naive - but I am new to Soaring Racing. But here it goes anyway :)

1. Isn't everyone starting at one time and the first person across the line wins - kind of prime thrill of it. and therefore wondering who won could ruin the rush of victory?

2. Would seem to me that this format demands a small group of skilled pilots, since they all stay very close and making the same very tight turn points - head on are more an issue - i thought that's were lots of collisions happened in the past.

This is no way a criticism - I love the format and watching it was FUN. The YouTube videos of Grand Prix Soaring can compare with any sport on the planet for entertainment - it is a great option. But I would hope it would stay an option not the norm or I would never get to fly a contest :) LOL

I hope you leave it as is - "The enemy of good is often Better"

my $.02

WH

Sean Fidler

April 11th 17, 04:10 AM

Two comments. First, I think your questions are good ones. They also point out several false claims often made about SGP and assigned tasks in general. Most importantly, SGP is not just about highly experienced sailplane pilots. It is also about novice and even beginner pilots as (I believe) it teaches critical cross country skills much faster than the alternatives while being highly rewarding and very fun (not just following the easiest weather possible, but learning how to deal with challenging weather and complete the assigned task). In SSA sanctioned competition, Turn Area Tasks (timed) are roughly 98% of the total annual tasks called in a season. In other words, SSA soaring "game" is extremely "one-dimensional." And for many of us, very annoying (and very boring).

POINT #1: SGP is an ideal format for novice pilots as well. All other forms of sailplane competition are (by definition) NOT racing due to 1) not having a simultaneous start and 2) not consisting of a set race track for all competitors to complete (imagine a marathon with different routes!). SGP "real" sailplane racing competition, therefore, provides a much more objective and measurable context for a novice (or even beginner) racing pilots to learn and comprehend the sport. SGP is an ideal training format for racing friends at a home club vs. just trying to fly as long and far as one can every day by following the easiest weather.

Examples of hyper-subjectivity/variability in non-SGP format sailplane competition:
1) the highly objective weather gambles required of wide area TAT tasks (98% of US tasking)
2) the start time decision "casino" roulette table (trying to start behind your competitors, so you have markers to follow or perhaps trying to start first hoping those behind start too late and then struggle to finish)
3) having to decide when and where to make your turns within several 60-mile radius turn areas (nearly 3000 square miles in area each) in order to time/maximize the flight to return at or just above the tasks minimum time. This complex series of decisions are yet another massive variable built into Turn Area Tasks (98% of US/SSA tasking in 2016) and strongly favors experienced pilots with very expensive flight computers and years of experience using them in such tasks (tasks they often are helping to call...).

These three variables alone often determine 90% of the TAT scoring result. The flying performance aspect of the competition is minimized by such tasks. Broad weather strategy decisions (guesses/gambles) are hypercritical to the result. In fact, these weather "strategy" decisions are often pure guesses as soaring weather is highly variable to predict on such a small scale accurately.

So, in regular sailplane competition, these enormous variables have huge effects on the results (making comprehension the subtle details and steadily improving performance (or being coached) very difficult). Often the winning decisions and strategies of the day are highly obfuscated from others (weather forecast accuracy, unpredictability, assumptions, etc.). Many pilots are quite turned off by the fact that while you are supposedly "racing" in the US (or Canada), you may never see another glider. If you do, it usually means absolutely nothing to you. Is this racing? Who are we trying to kid? That glider you see could have started well before or after you, could have gone further or could have just nipped the last turn area and caught up. You have no idea if they are ahead, behind, or even. Soon they will probably fly off in another direction likely never to be seen again during the flight. Then, at the end of the day, it takes many hours to get the scoring for a Turn Area Task completed. We are told that assigned tasks are blasphemous and irresponsible, and SGP is pure evil (demonstration pilots)! Again, 97% of US tasking consists of broad Turn Area Tasks. And the leadership wants 100% TAT's!

POINT #2: Becuase the turnpoints in SGP are all assigned, and quite small, it is very rare to have two gliders arrive at the 500m radius assigned turn point at the same time. This possibility can be further "softened" by making the first leg longer. But, even if two SGP pilots arrive at an SGP turn-point together, abreast, unlike US rules, both pilots know exactly what the other is going to do, and when, right down to the meter.

In contrast, in US rules, assigned task pilots are allowed (and encouraged) to turn at different times. Pilot A might decide to go to the back of the assigned turn (gaining two extra miles and the ability to leech on pilots who turn earlier), and pilot B might turn in the middle of the turn-point area. This can create (I experienced this last summer in Nephi during the 15m Nationals, and several times before) a dangerous, chaotic and unpredictable cris-cross-crash zone in which you never really know what anyone else is going to do or if you have somehow missed someone within all the chaos on a collision course. Just stupid. The US Rules Committee should take the ability for pilots to add distance in an assigned task or rename it what it is, another pseudo area task. But they refuse to leave the assigned task unmolested by their supposed US rules "genius." You have to keep a sense of humor when looking at all of this.

Anyway, I hope this helps you understand the SGP a little better. Or at least hear a different viewpoint. Oh, and the Europeans and most other soaring countries LOVE SGP racing. The USA has refused to participate in it or to sanction it for over a decade!

My .02 cents...

Best,

Sean

Sean Fidler

April 19th 17, 03:38 PM

New SeeYou replay videos for all six FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando races here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9Js2pJV5xXiUajiERCVar1DMTldaQNlT

Full FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Results here: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/results-sgp/results.aspx?contestID=28476

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Website here: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017.aspx

Amazing FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Official PHOTOS (thanks to Maria Szemplinski - NEETKA PHOTOGRAPHY) here: http://www.sgp.aero/usa2017/race-coverage/photos.aspx?contestID=28476

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Facebook Page: @FAISailplaneGrandPrixUSA

FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Twitter Page:
@faisgp #faisgp

Thanks to all the the competitors, all the volunteers and especially to the friends, family and sailplane racing fans who followed this epic event!

Special thanks to John Godfrey (Competiton Director) and Tiffany Fidler (Scorer) and Rich Owen (host) and Sue Martin! And a huge thanks to the amazing Seminole Lake Glideport crew!

Special thanks to our amazing event sponsors, especially the WILLIAMS SOARING CENTER, AS Sailplanes, CLEARNAV and SAGE Varios.

Sincerely,

Sean Fidler
Event Manager
FAI SGP USA 🇺🇸 Orlando 2017

John Cochrane[_3_]

April 19th 17, 08:51 PM

To be just a little fair here, the SSA rules committee did offer a Grand Prix option in regional rules that would have made it every bit Sean's "real race." (Last start time). With absolutely zero interest after a few years, in the name of simplification, the RC pulled it. If it is so great to have "real races," even for beginners, it's a bit curious that absolutely nobody ever tried it. Perhaps nobody reads the rules. Anyway, if Sean has sparked interest, I would guess the RC would be open to allowing it again.

John Cochrane

Sean Fidler

April 21st 17, 01:46 AM

Because leadership matters.

But I'll give credit; the SSA contest "leadership" has nearly accomplished its goal.

Today, in North America, all we do are TATs. Real Racing (Assigned) tasks are 100% extinct. This is a fact.

90%+ of US tasks are TAT. Less than 3% are "US Rules," pseudo AT/Area tasks (where extra distance and associated tactics is a huge variable and pathetically predictable). Just stay with the gaggle, get more distance in the turns, re-leech, catch up, pass, repeat, pass near the end. Win. Easy as pie. Racing ruined. Zzzzzzz.

Congratulations John. Congratulations RC. Congratulations SSA. Bravo.

I am all for TAT tasks. They are fun. But, when it's all we do, it becomes incredibly annoying. Especially when it severely handicaps our US Team, along with our vastly different US rules & scoring.

Obviously, all of this "success" has created a very one-dimensional environment which, when viewed from outside of North America, is not very exciting....

Example: Canadian Nationals last summer (2016).

Over a full week of absolutely legendary weather (8k cloud bases, 8-10 knot thermals, etc...considerably better than Uvalde, TX which took place the same week), they chose to call exactly ZERO assigned tasks in FAI Class (or Club class). Instead, they decided to run six straight days of TATs, followed up with a serious attempt at a (one or zero (blocked from my mind forever) MAT in awful weather! Allow me a moment to clean up the vomit. OK. I'm back. Yes, the task sheet for the final day of the Canadian National Championship featured four bold options (no, I am not kidding). They were: North, South, East, and West. Thankfully, this crapshoot excuse for a task was, eventually, canceled.

This is what, IMO, poor leadership has created.

Just because you "offered" Grand Prix as an "option" in the US rules, in and of itself, means little. You (leaders) have to believe in it and encourage it. You have to want to do it yourselves. Clearly, you didn't. You didn't promote it. You didn't encourage it. You didn't lead. People see this. It rubs off. That kind of leadership is dire for the sport, in my opinion. The sport needs leaders who drive the sport forward. Not noodle with knobs behind the curtain.

The truth is that assigned tasks are constantly demonized by SSA leaders (and their cheering sections...). Consistently and across the board. It's quite impressive, to be honest. Nobody with the possibility of an alternative viewpoint is allowed near the committees. The Good old boy network is alive and well.

A great quote...

"Too many committees are not active, not responsive, and don’t publicize what they are not doing. There are many reasons for this. Entrenched committee members that have been in office many years, purposefully weak leadership, an aversion to change, and reluctance to bring in new members, especially new members who might rock the boat for members who are no longer active..." -undisclosed

A little humor...

1) LEADER - "Well, we're waiting. Grand Prix tasks are there for you.........(under breath) if you're crazy and stupid enough to want to partake in this blasphemy....GO AHEAD!!!" https://youtu.be/Z0YIJQ1jgEI

....two years later...

2) LEADER - "See! Nobody used it once. I told you. That must be for a good reason. ;-)"

Sigh... Facepalm.... Disbelief... This is what we are dealing with...

You know what, this is getting so old. Never mind. I am now off to do something productive again...

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 3:51:59 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
> To be just a little fair here, the SSA rules committee did offer a Grand Prix option in regional rules that would have made it every bit Sean's "real race." (Last start time). With absolutely zero interest after a few years, in the name of simplification, the RC pulled it. If it is so great to have "real races," even for beginners, it's a bit curious that absolutely nobody ever tried it. Perhaps nobody reads the rules. Anyway, if Sean has sparked interest, I would guess the RC would be open to allowing it again.
>
> John Cochrane

Tony[_5_]

April 21st 17, 02:08 AM

Perry today featured 50% assigned tasks

Sean Fidler

April 21st 17, 09:48 AM

Wonderful. Good for them! Unfortunately, and sadly, I must point out that any supposed US Rule "assigned?" task(s) called today were not assigned tasks. Any US rules task which includes the word "assigned" is a sham. These are just "mini TURN AREA TASKS." They are what we will now refer to as.... "Assigned in Name Only" tasks! (aka AiNO). AiNO T-shirts coming soon.

Let's just be honest; ASSIGNED TASKS and Sailplane Racing exist today only within FAI competitions. They "boldly" feature an actual set racing course! Ironically, FAI assigned tasks are also commonly referred to as RACING TASKS. Not the case with any current SSA task. No sir. That is for a pretty darn good reason; it's because (drum roll…….) FAI assigned tasks often (50%+) feature sailplanes racing around a fixed racing course, in a thing called a race. US tasks simply do not do this, EVER! PERIOD..

Seriously, you should all try sailplane racing someday; it's fun! Don't let the good old boys scare you.

The SSA should probably consider refraining from using the word "assigned" to describe its current tasks. It might be better for all involved. The truth is that the SSA intentionally chose to abandon assigned/racing tasks (for us all), years ago and forever. Why hide from that? Embrace it! Own it.

THE US RULES MODIFIED AREA TASKS (aka MAT or HAT):
The US MAT/HAT is just a smaller TURN AREA TASK, but often with a cheap Nevada casino table at the end (or even the very beginning). The MAT/HAT (aka TURN AREA TASK), of course, allows each pilot to achieve widely variable task distances. The MAT/HAT is also MINIMUM TIME TASK, just like the TAT. So...how is this (assigned?) task not a just another TURN AREA TASK again?

THE US RULES "ASSIGNED? TASK":
Again, just another TURN AREA TASK with a little lipstick, cheap perfume and with the word "assigned" added like a cherry on top. Of course, this is also not a set race course. Each pilots distance flown can vary as much as 10-15 miles. The dynamic morphs from a pure race into a leeching exercise.. Do we not already have enough turn area tasks in the SSA? No room for anything else? This clearly proves that all we do here in USA/SSA sailplane contests are various flavors of the TURN AREA TASK. Mind numbing.

THE CRISS-CROSS-CRASH KILL ZONE(S)
Finally, within these US Rule compressed TURN AREA TASKS, when many gliders (the gaggle) is somewhat in touch when entering an AREA (often the case), an extremely dangerous and highly unpredictable "criss-cross-crash, KILL ZONE" is created" for our participants to enjoy. For a few moments, gliders can almost be coming from anywhere. In this designed chaos, gliders can easily find themselves come together at 90-degree angles, turning into each other, or approaching each other nearly head on while everyone is dealing with lots of relatively unpredictable traffic. This is not particularly...safe. This also is not a particularly brilliant task design. Especially with non-Flarm equipped or Stealth Mode gliders.

Personally, I prefer the safety and predictability of real assigned turns (in which everyone simply wants to get in and out ASAP, making for a much more predictable experience). This is, unfortunately, not the case in US rule MAT/HAT, 2-mile diameter "turn areas" of chaos, unpredictability, and chance! I digress...

In summary, you have (innocently) claimed that two "(not) assigned?" US rules tasks took place today. Yes, the word assigned was indeed used to describe these "things…" That is true. But let me suggest not letting the obvious (and obscene) misuse of a common, English word fool you any longer. Like flying purple unicorns, assigned tasks (and sailplane racing) no longer exist here in the USA/SSA. All we have remaining are flavors of the good old boys beloved TURN AREA TASKs. Cue beloved TAT banjo music…

AiNO T-shirts (high quality cotton/poly blend) $14.99. Includes shipping. PM to pre-order yours today!!!!!!!

Sean Fidler

April 21st 17, 03:29 PM

Again, don't be fooled by poor word choices! Or by #fakenews

Further examination of these "US rules Assigned Tasjs" has revealed more damning evidence that assigned tasks simply no longer exists in the SSA/USA. Period!

Photos: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0tJ058xyJIlE0Q

After feeling highly skeptical about your claim, I just took brief look a closer look during my flight this morning. I was not disappointed. I quickly learned that these two "Assigned in Name Only" US Rules (not racing) tasks were perverted even more than normal. What a joke it is to call any US rules task "assigned..." Please stop. It's embarrassing.

http://www.ssa.org/ContestResults.asp?contestId=2358&ContestDetailId=12432&ContestName=Region+5+North&ContestDate=4/20/2017&ResultsUpdate=True

Perry Open Class (Day 2):
"ASSIGNED TASK (AiNO!)"
Name Radius
Start 2 5.0
Newberry 15.0 <----- ????
McCormi 15.0 <------ ????
Bamburg 10.0 <------- ?????
Finish 1.0

So let me get this straight. 15, 15, and 10 mike radi qualifies for "assigned tasking" in the USA? Why am I not surprised?

Perry 18 meter Class (Day 2)
MODIFIED ASSIGNED TASK (AiNO!)
Name Radius
Start 2 5.0
Newberry 15.0 <---- ;-)
McCormic12.0 <----- lol
Williston 10.0 <----- sigh
Bamburg 1.0 <---- at least one was a mile radius, despite really being a Turn Area and not assigned area.

I give you US assigned tasks!

#AMAZING

Tango Eight

April 21st 17, 07:34 PM

On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 10:29:21 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Again, don't be fooled by poor word choices! Or by #fakenews
>
> Further examination of these "US rules Assigned Tasjs" has revealed more damning evidence that assigned tasks simply no longer exists in the SSA/USA.. Period!
>
> Photos: https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0tJ058xyJIlE0Q
>
> After feeling highly skeptical about your claim, I just took brief look a closer look during my flight this morning. I was not disappointed. I quickly learned that these two "Assigned in Name Only" US Rules (not racing) tasks were perverted even more than normal. What a joke it is to call any US rules task "assigned..." Please stop. It's embarrassing.
>
> http://www.ssa.org/ContestResults.asp?contestId=2358&ContestDetailId=12432&ContestName=Region+5+North&ContestDate=4/20/2017&ResultsUpdate=True
>
> Perry Open Class (Day 2):
> "ASSIGNED TASK (AiNO!)"
> Name Radius
> Start 2 5.0
> Newberry 15.0 <----- ????
> McCormi 15.0 <------ ????
> Bamburg 10.0 <------- ?????
> Finish 1.0
>
> So let me get this straight. 15, 15, and 10 mike radi qualifies for "assigned tasking" in the USA? Why am I not surprised?
>
> Perry 18 meter Class (Day 2)
> MODIFIED ASSIGNED TASK (AiNO!)
> Name Radius
> Start 2 5.0
> Newberry 15.0 <---- ;-)
> McCormic12.0 <----- lol
> Williston 10.0 <----- sigh
> Bamburg 1.0 <---- at least one was a mile radius, despite really being a Turn Area and not assigned area.
>
> I give you US assigned tasks!
>
> #AMAZING

lol. Look at distances flown by the finishers. You are flipping out over an error on an "unofficial" scoresheet. Odds are pretty good that will be corrected.