state tax question

[Del Jensen]

You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.

I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.

My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?

Many thanks for any insight on this.

Del

[Roy B.]

Del:
While tax enforcement can vary from state to state - you should be OK with Utah as long as the glider isn't used, stored or tied down in Utah. There are legal/constitutional limits on a state's ability to tax an item that is (and always was) outside of it's territory and the mere fact that a Utah resident owns it is not likely to be enough to tax it if it was never in Utah. By way of illustration, if you owned a piece of real estate in AZ it's not likely that Utah could tax it. Just keep it out of Utah.
ROY

[Ron Gleason]

On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 13:30:12 UTC-6, Del Jensen wrote:
> You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
>
> I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it.. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
>
> My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
>
> Many thanks for any insight on this.
>
> Del

Make sure you register in AZ and you deal with the AZ FSDO correctly

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 3:30:12 PM UTC-4, Del Jensen wrote:
> You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
>
> I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it.. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
>
> My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
>
> Many thanks for any insight on this.
>
> Del

If for some reason, you decide to move the glider to UT, they may want you to pay sales tax there. However, you will be entitled to get a credit for the sales tax you previously paid to AZ, so you will only have to pay the difference between the two state's tax rates. If the AZ sales tax rate is higher than UT, you won't owe them any money at all.

[Bruce]

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 12:30:12 PM UTC-7, Del Jensen wrote:
> You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
>
> I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it.. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
>
> My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
>
> Many thanks for any insight on this.
>
> Del

Del,

If you purchased your glider from an individual as opposed to a business, there will be no sales tax in Arizona. You need to register it in AZ and it will cost you $25 a year.

[Del Jensen]

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 7:01:07 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 12:30:12 PM UTC-7, Del Jensen wrote:
> > You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
> >
> > I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
> >
> > My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
> >
> > Many thanks for any insight on this.
> >
> > Del
>
> Del,
>
> If you purchased your glider from an individual as opposed to a business, there will be no sales tax in Arizona. You need to register it in AZ and it will cost you $25 a year.

Thanks, guys. I started to worry after reading some war stories out there where people were getting hit for multiple tax bills after buying aircraft.

I've already been in touch with my FSDO. Since the glider isn't changing its home airport, it looks like all I'll have to do is file a program letter.. The rest of the airworthiness certificate stays in place. Thanks for the reminder on state registration - I'll have to register both glider and trailer.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 10:39:33 PM UTC-6, Del Jensen wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 7:01:07 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 12:30:12 PM UTC-7, Del Jensen wrote:
> > > You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
> > >
> > > I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
> > >
> > > My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
> > >
> > > Many thanks for any insight on this.
> > >
> > > Del
> >
> > Del,
> >
> > If you purchased your glider from an individual as opposed to a business, there will be no sales tax in Arizona. You need to register it in AZ and it will cost you $25 a year.
>
> Thanks, guys. I started to worry after reading some war stories out there where people were getting hit for multiple tax bills after buying aircraft.

[[email protected]]

Probably there are two tax implications. First is sales tax and second is personal property tax (provided domiciled state collects personal property tax). Sales tax is pretty straight forward for each state. However, personal property tax can be hit or miss; some escape it all together and some pay dearly (imagine annually paying $3.00 per $100 of value). The determining factor is where the sailplane is domiciled and length of residency. Rules vary from state to state and tax "inspection" varies from county to county. Worst case would be two states pursuing you for personal property tax. FWIW, many owners have sailplanes registered to a Delaware corporation, live in a different state, and domicile their sailplane in a third state. Good luck.



On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 3:30:12 PM UTC-4, Del Jensen wrote:
> You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
>
> I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it.. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
>
> My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
>
> Many thanks for any insight on this.
>
> Del

[Dan Marotta]

You'll also have to file a Bill of Sale and registration with the FAA.

Regarding trailer registration, a lot of people have Kansas plates. It's
my understanding that Kansas does not register trailers under 2,000
pounds but they provide a plate for people traveling out of KS. I've
seen plenty of them on glider trailers all over the country. You can
also find them online. Maybe somebody from Kansas will chime in about
that. I don't know about legalities for non-KS residents...

On 4/5/2017 10:39 PM, Del Jensen wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 7:01:07 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 12:30:12 PM UTC-7, Del Jensen wrote:
>>> You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
>>>
>>> I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
>>>
>>> My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
>>>
>>> Many thanks for any insight on this.
>>>
>>> Del
>> Del,
>>
>> If you purchased your glider from an individual as opposed to a business, there will be no sales tax in Arizona. You need to register it in AZ and it will cost you $25 a year.
> Thanks, guys. I started to worry after reading some war stories out there where people were getting hit for multiple tax bills after buying aircraft.
>
> I've already been in touch with my FSDO. Since the glider isn't changing its home airport, it looks like all I'll have to do is file a program letter. The rest of the airworthiness certificate stays in place. Thanks for the reminder on state registration - I'll have to register both glider and trailer.

--
Dan, 5J

[Duster]

The US AOPA has done a pretty good job of assimilating a lot of info about aircraft ownership and tax implications (fed and state). Good place to start.


https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/buying-an-aircraft/the-pilots-guide-to-taxes

[Mike the Strike]

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 12:30:12 PM UTC-7, Del Jensen wrote:
> You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
>
> I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it.. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
>
> My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
>
> Many thanks for any insight on this.
>
> Del

As usual, you can be guaranteed to get lots of bull**** and wrong answers on RAS!

As someone who has lived in Arizona for 20 years and owned three gliders here, I can assure you that there is no Arizona sale tax payable on the private sale of a glider or trailer. If you bought from a dealer, he is obliged to charge you the tax and you would already know that!

As an ex-resident (and glider owner) of Utah, I am also aware of the laws there. They have no claim on your glider as long as it is mainly located in another state. You may take it there to fly, provided you meet the necessary FAA notification for experimental aircraft, but won't owe any taxes.

The trailer will be issued a permanent Arizona tag and you will have to pay a $25 State annual registration fee for the glider. Absolutely no reason to try to register either glider or trailer in another state.

Scottsdale FSDO folk have lots of experience with gliders and is friendly. They may require an inspection.

Mike

[Frank Whiteley]

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 9:46:23 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> You'll also have to file a Bill of Sale and registration with the FAA.
>
> Regarding trailer registration, a lot of people have Kansas plates. It's
> my understanding that Kansas does not register trailers under 2,000
> pounds but they provide a plate for people traveling out of KS. I've
> seen plenty of them on glider trailers all over the country. You can
> also find them online. Maybe somebody from Kansas will chime in about
> that. I don't know about legalities for non-KS residents...
>
> On 4/5/2017 10:39 PM, Del Jensen wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 7:01:07 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 12:30:12 PM UTC-7, Del Jensen wrote:
> >>> You guys are probably tired of these kinds of questions, but I have been searching the web and haven't found the answer to my situation.
> >>>
> >>> I recently purchased a glider in AZ, where I intend to keep it and fly it. I am a Utah resident, and the bill of sale and FAA registration so indicate.
> >>>
> >>> My intention is to pay the AZ sales tax, along with state registration. Will this trigger a beef with Utah? Can one be obliged to pay sales tax to two states, simply because one has primary residence in a different state than that where a purchased asset is located and utilized?
> >>>
> >>> Many thanks for any insight on this.
> >>>
> >>> Del
> >> Del,
> >>
> >> If you purchased your glider from an individual as opposed to a business, there will be no sales tax in Arizona. You need to register it in AZ and it will cost you $25 a year.
> > Thanks, guys. I started to worry after reading some war stories out there where people were getting hit for multiple tax bills after buying aircraft.
> >
> > I've already been in touch with my FSDO. Since the glider isn't changing its home airport, it looks like all I'll have to do is file a program letter. The rest of the airworthiness certificate stays in place. Thanks for the reminder on state registration - I'll have to register both glider and trailer.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Those are just Steve Leonard's trailers Dan.

Frank Whiteley

[Dan Marotta]

<Snip>
> Those are just Steve Leonard's trailers Dan.
>
> Frank Whiteley
Uhhhhh... Actually, no. There are others...
--
Dan, 5J

[Tony[_5_]]

The "Kansas Under 2M" tags that you see are not issued by the state, they are purchased at RV and Boat stores in the state if Kansas. Trailers under 2000lbs in Kansas are not required to be registered, that is true. These tags just fill the spot for the license plate.

I think you might have trouble explaining to a police officer why you have an exempt trailer in Kansas without a Kansas driver's license or a Kansas tag on your car.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 10:25:13 AM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
> The "Kansas Under 2M" tags that you see are not issued by the state, they are purchased at RV and Boat stores in the state if Kansas. Trailers under 2000lbs in Kansas are not required to be registered, that is true. These tags just fill the spot for the license plate.
>
> I think you might have trouble explaining to a police officer why you have an exempt trailer in Kansas without a Kansas driver's license or a Kansas tag on your car.

Utility type trailers in my county don't require plates or registration and may not require lights if the towing vehicles lights are unobstructed. Just don't take it out of the county. Wisconsin is another state that doesn't (or at least didn't) require title, registration, or plates on trailers of a certain size. May not make them legal in other states. Temporary permits for crossing states can be notoriously expensive for 7-10 days of issue and they technically aren't good for adjoining states. The issue for the OP is ownership, domicile, and state registration. AZ requires state registration of aircraft and has an associated tax rate (which may be lower than Utah). I manage a few Colorado registered gliders and trailers that are visiting other states on long term arrangements. None have generated tax bills or state registrations, though I do receive the occasional toll road invoice. Colorado one time use tax was paid on each and annual trailer registration fees are paid on each trailer.

Frank Whiteley

[JS]

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 9:53:34 AM UTC-7, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 10:25:13 AM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
> > The "Kansas Under 2M" tags that you see are not issued by the state, they are purchased at RV and Boat stores in the state if Kansas. Trailers under 2000lbs in Kansas are not required to be registered, that is true. These tags just fill the spot for the license plate.
> >
> > I think you might have trouble explaining to a police officer why you have an exempt trailer in Kansas without a Kansas driver's license or a Kansas tag on your car.
>
> Utility type trailers in my county don't require plates or registration and may not require lights if the towing vehicles lights are unobstructed. Just don't take it out of the county. Wisconsin is another state that doesn't (or at least didn't) require title, registration, or plates on trailers of a certain size. May not make them legal in other states. Temporary permits for crossing states can be notoriously expensive for 7-10 days of issue and they technically aren't good for adjoining states. The issue for the OP is ownership, domicile, and state registration. AZ requires state registration of aircraft and has an associated tax rate (which may be lower than Utah). I manage a few Colorado registered gliders and trailers that are visiting other states on long term arrangements. None have generated tax bills or state registrations, though I do receive the occasional toll road invoice. Colorado one time use tax was paid on each and annual trailer registration fees are paid on each trailer.
>
> Frank Whiteley

Del et al:
Glider owners are pretty bad at dealing with trailer title and registration..
4 of 10 had title problems in my experience.
Whether your state requires one or not, it's best to have a title for when you sell the trailer. Perhaps it's 20 dollars.
Jim